‘Overwhelmed’ PACC detects graft at 5 more welfare centres

[kannot]

33 minutes ago, JAG said:

It will be buried.

One of the few "concentrations of support" for this regime are the bureaucratic uniformed ranks of the civil service. One can safely surmise that this sort of corruption is unlikely to be restricted to this one department.

The regime is not going to turn on its own.

There may well (probably will) be some unfortunates thrown to the wolves, but no real concrete action.

 

And as for the brave girl who blew the whistle - well I'd take up the career offered by 7/11, 'cos no organisation connected with the civil service is ever going to offer you a job.

Although that "one" job is the one at the top and its where she needs  to be not the current muppets/robbers

[robblok]

47 minutes ago, JAG said:

It will be buried.

One of the few "concentrations of support" for this regime are the bureaucratic uniformed ranks of the civil service. One can safely surmise that this sort of corruption is unlikely to be restricted to this one department.

The regime is not going to turn on its own.

There may well (probably will) be some unfortunates thrown to the wolves, but no real concrete action.

 

And as for the brave girl who blew the whistle - well I'd take up the career offered by 7/11, 'cos no organisation connected with the civil service is ever going to offer you a job.

I had not thought about it that way.. that by going after these guys they could loose support. Lets wait and see what happens and how high up they are going to investigate.

[Samui Bodoh]

53 minutes ago, JAG said:

It will be buried.

One of the few "concentrations of support" for this regime are the bureaucratic uniformed ranks of the civil service. One can safely surmise that this sort of corruption is unlikely to be restricted to this one department.

The regime is not going to turn on its own.

There may well (probably will) be some unfortunates thrown to the wolves, but no real concrete action.

 

And as for the brave girl who blew the whistle - well I'd take up the career offered by 7/11, 'cos no organisation connected with the civil service is ever going to offer you a job.

If you have a rainy day, have a look at Suharto's Indonesia and the links between the bureaucracy and the GolKar party. 

 

Cheers

[halloween]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

The facts at the "trial" were not relevant.

 

She was a former PM whose government was usurped by a military coup.

 

The military government/coup makers had ultimate power in Article 44 and had already used its power to remove judges.

 

Under these circumstances, there was no possibility of a fair trial occurring. There would be no possibility of demonstrating that the judges were not influenced by that (already used) power and thus were unable to give a fair "verdict" .

 

There was no possibility that Yingluck could have received a fair trial under a military government with Article 44 power, thus any trial she did face was flawed and not up to international standards of justice.

 

It was a sham. 

 

So you deplore direct theft from the poor, but willing to accept and defend those who stole and wasted many times more. Whether theft is direct or indirect, the same people get shafted.

[Rimmer]

A post containing nothing but images has been removed, please understand this is a discussion forum not a picture book, Thank you

[Lemonltr]

There must be hundreds of people involved in this despicable scam.

They should be given long sentences and have all assets seized to the last baht.

When they get out of prison and are themselves 'destitute' steal their destitution payments.

[jayboy]

3 hours ago, halloween said:

So you deplore direct theft from the poor, but willing to accept and defend those who stole and wasted many times more. Whether theft is direct or indirect, the same people get shafted.

There is a huge distinction between corruption and mismanagement.The former is theft and the latter is not.Your invented category of "indirect theft" is meaningless.

 

You may as well accuse David Cameron of "indirect theft" since by his mismanagement of Brexit the people of the UK will almost certainly become poorer.

 

As to the poorer people of Thailand that you invoke - don't you think they should be given a say indeed a dominant role in formulating - through democratically elected representatives - a better future for their country.

 

Of course you don't.

[robblok]

33 minutes ago, jayboy said:

There is a huge distinction between corruption and mismanagement.The former is theft and the latter is not.Your invented category of "indirect theft" is meaningless.

 

You may as well accuse David Cameron of "indirect theft" since by his mismanagement of Brexit the people of the UK will almost certainly become poorer.

 

As to the poorer people of Thailand that you invoke - don't you think they should be given a say indeed a dominant role in formulating - through democratically elected representatives - a better future for their country.

 

Of course you don't.

Jayboy, negligence (dereliction of duty) is also not the same as mismanagement. 

 

the shameful failure to fulfill one's obligations.

noun: dereliction of duty

synonyms:

negligence, neglect, delinquency, failure; More

Edited March 20, 2018 by robblok

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Jayboy, negligence (dereliction of duty) is also not the same as mismanagement. 

 

the shameful failure to fulfill one's obligations.

noun: dereliction of duty

synonyms:

negligence, neglect, delinquency, failure; More

Actually it pretty nearly is.

 

You can throw around prescriptive definitions all you like but the reality is the policy though misguided had a democratic legitimacy, and there was no evidence of the PM's personal corruption.(the crazies dispute the latter but they're...well,crazy)

 

"Shameful dereliction of duty" is the kind of language the crazies in the US formerly described Obamacare, recognition of Cuba etc.

[halloween]

8 hours ago, jayboy said:

There is a huge distinction between corruption and mismanagement.The former is theft and the latter is not.Your invented category of "indirect theft" is meaningless.

 

You may as well accuse David Cameron of "indirect theft" since by his mismanagement of Brexit the people of the UK will almost certainly become poorer.

 

As to the poorer people of Thailand that you invoke - don't you think they should be given a say indeed a dominant role in formulating - through democratically elected representatives - a better future for their country.

 

Of course you don't.

So those involved in the G2G scam weren't stealing the money; it was just mismanagement? And the rice scam, reincarnated after its original corrupt failure, wasn't a ploy to buy office and allow the corrupt free access, it was just a poor decision. In your sycophantic view that is.

[jayboy]

4 hours ago, halloween said:

So those involved in the G2G scam weren't stealing the money; it was just mismanagement? And the rice scam, reincarnated after its original corrupt failure, wasn't a ploy to buy office and allow the corrupt free access, it was just a poor decision. In your sycophantic view that is.

Nobody denies the rice scheme wasn't abused but not even her (sane variety) enemies suggest Yingluck was personally corrupt.

 

You also seem to have difficulty (again) in understanding that in every democracy parties campaign on policies they hope will get them elected.It's not in your fatuous expression "a ploy to buy office".

[jayboy]

I note that the military government has authorised the extraordinary sum of Baht 32  billion to spend in 82,000 villages in the run up to the election.

 

I am waiting for the "ploy to buy office" merchants to come forward to condemn this deplorable piece of populism and vote buying.

 

But somehow one doubts there will be such a response.

Edited March 21, 2018 by jayboy

[mtls2005]

18 minutes ago, jayboy said:

I note that the military government has authorised the extraordinary sum of Baht 32  billion to spend in 82,000 villages in the run up to the election.

 

This is, of course, the Thai Niyom scheme-du-jour.

 

Last year's Junta scheme "Pracha Rat" collapsed quickly under a cloud of mismanagement, negligence and corruption, and was buried in a shallow grave.

[halloween]

On 3/21/2018 at 9:55 AM, jayboy said:

Nobody denies the rice scheme wasn't abused but not even her (sane variety) enemies suggest Yingluck was personally corrupt.

 

You also seem to have difficulty (again) in understanding that in every democracy parties campaign on policies they hope will get them elected.It's not in your fatuous expression "a ploy to buy office".

I'll explain the concept in simple terms. Government ministers were stealing, it wasn't mismanagement as you claim, though not directly from the poor but they were affected as were most Thais. In every democracy parties offer incentives to vote, but in most those policies are not patently unworkable, hugely expensive and already proven to be hotbeds of corruption. Offering such, and lying to voters about the chances of success is a ploy.

The difference between that and  the money offered to villages is that most of the "extraordinary sum" (but a tiny fraction of the rice scam) will go to villagers, not as kickbacks to cronies and theft by ministers.

BTW enabling corrupt practices of family members and their associates rates as corruption to most people, obviously insane to you.

[jayboy]

3 hours ago, halloween said:

I'll explain the concept in simple terms. Government ministers were stealing, it wasn't mismanagement as you claim, though not directly from the poor but they were affected as were most Thais. In every democracy parties offer incentives to vote, but in most those policies are not patently unworkable, hugely expensive and already proven to be hotbeds of corruption. Offering such, and lying to voters about the chances of success is a ploy.

The difference between that and  the money offered to villages is that most of the "extraordinary sum" (but a tiny fraction of the rice scam) will go to villagers, not as kickbacks to cronies and theft by ministers.

BTW enabling corrupt practices of family members and their associates rates as corruption to most people, obviously insane to you.

You are now in full denial mode.Read the analysis of the time of which there is plenty.There is almost unanimity that the scheme while well intentioned (there was no lying to voters as you absurdly claim) was ill conceived and subject to abuse (including corruption).That is not even in dispute.You are however trying to dovetail universal democratic practice into your own deranged little box.On the basis of your invented criteria the British NHS (or any comprehensive programme to help the majority) is patently unworkable and hugely expensive.You repeat the lie that Yingluck was personally corrupt yet even the rigged justice system didn't make this claim.If you are suggesting she connived at corruption, produce your evidence.Even her political enemies didn't come up with that.She was of course nailed for maladministration and lack of oversight, a charge that would put almost every elected democratic leader behind bars.

 

And then you have the effrontery to defend this military government's patent bribe to the electorate.Shame on you.

Edited March 23, 2018 by jayboy

[mikebell]

On 20/03/2018 at 5:42 AM, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

A morally bankrupt country!

Only the poor are bankrupt here.

[halloween]

On 3/23/2018 at 10:39 AM, jayboy said:

You are now in full denial mode.Read the analysis of the time of which there is plenty.There is almost unanimity that the scheme while well intentioned (there was no lying to voters as you absurdly claim) was ill conceived and subject to abuse (including corruption).That is not even in dispute.You are however trying to dovetail universal democratic practice into your own deranged little box.On the basis of your invented criteria the British NHS (or any comprehensive programme to help the majority) is patently unworkable and hugely expensive.You repeat the lie that Yingluck was personally corrupt yet even the rigged justice system didn't make this claim.If you are suggesting she connived at corruption, produce your evidence.Even her political enemies didn't come up with that.She was of course nailed for maladministration and lack of oversight, a charge that would put almost every elected democratic leader behind bars.

 

And then you have the effrontery to defend this military government's patent bribe to the electorate.Shame on you.

So the repeated claim that the rice scam was a zero sum self-sustaining scheme was not a lie? The world's economic press and historical fact show your claim as equally invalid as your claim there was no theft.

Yingluk reintroduced a scheme known to enable corruption WITHOUT  any change to prevent it, and when evidence of corruption emerged, lied to the public denying it existed. Her brother (the source of her wealth) and his cronies profited from that corruption. Claimed ignorance and proven ineptitude are not an excuse.

[jayboy]

3 hours ago, halloween said:

So the repeated claim that the rice scam was a zero sum self-sustaining scheme was not a lie? The world's economic press and historical fact show your claim as equally invalid as your claim there was no theft.

Yingluk reintroduced a scheme known to enable corruption WITHOUT  any change to prevent it, and when evidence of corruption emerged, lied to the public denying it existed. Her brother (the source of her wealth) and his cronies profited from that corruption. Claimed ignorance and proven ineptitude are not an excuse.

You attempt to recover your ground by inventing a position I never held.The rice price support policy was a "zero sum self-sustaining scheme."

 

"Schemes of this sort rarely make economic sense though they exist in various forms worldwide, eg in the USA and Japan.The current military government also has a scheme with some similar characteristics.

 

You repeat the lie that Yingluck was personally involved in corrupt practice - without a shred of evidence.Just bar room ramblings that she was the sister of a politician who had friends who might have been nefarious.Do grow up.

 

Even the rigged justice system and her political enemies never claimed Yingluck was personally corrupt.Yet you drone on year after year with this unproven slander.

 

You ignore (yet again) the reality that politicians in every democracy make policy errors.The answer is to vote them out not jail them.And in Thailand of course her sentence was part of a wider political vendetta.