'No more' or we vote you out - students lead huge U.S. anti-gun rallies

[DM07]

On 3/25/2018 at 2:50 PM, Luckysilk said:

I'm curious who paid for this show ? Stage, buses, sound equipment etc ??? 

And I am curious, why you are curious!

But we both know, why!

[lannarebirth]

No one's going to repeal the Second Amendment and even trying strengthens the pro-gun case. It needs to be amended however and no one wants to risk a Constitutional Convention to do that. That could lead to term limits, balanced budget amendments and caps on campaign spending (shudder). What they really want is just to register young Democrats. THAT is the whole point of the exercise. They can live with the carnage. cuz deep down they know it isn't the guns that are responsible for all these killings, it is the culture.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/second-amendment-john-paul-stevens-calls-for-repeal-2018-3

[Scott]

Posts and replies removed. 

 

[billd766]

12 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

No one's going to repeal the Second Amendment and even trying strengthens the pro-gun case. It needs to be amended however and no one wants to risk a Constitutional Convention to do that. That could lead to term limits, balanced budget amendments and caps on campaign spending (shudder). What they really want is just to register young Democrats. THAT is the whole point of the exercise. They can live with the carnage. cuz deep down they know it isn't the guns that are responsible for all these killings, it is the culture.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/second-amendment-john-paul-stevens-calls-for-repeal-2018-3

 

Ask this young woman Emma Gonzalez why she and hundreds of thousnads of other people, young and old why they are protesting. They cannot live with the carnage nor should they have to. It ISN'T an exercise in registering young Democrats but the reality of the USA today.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Ask this young woman Emma Gonzalez why she and hundreds of thousnads of other people, young and old why they are protesting. They cannot live with the carnage nor should they have to. It ISN'T an exercise in registering young Democrats but the reality of the USA today.

His point was only that the Second amendment isn't going to be changed. The requirements to do so ensure that on this subject, the second amendment will not be changed, regardless of hundreds of thousands protesting. 

[billd766]

But why should it NOT be changed.

 

It was enacted in 1791 or so it makes sense to update it after 227 years.

 

Condititions have changed considerably in the last couple of centuries.

 

Children and students were not slaughtered in schools then as they are now on a weekly basis in the USA.

[Jingthing]

Going after the 2nd amendment is a waste of time.

Why?

That would only be needed if the goal was an Australian style solution.

Over 90 percent of Americans don't even want an Australian solution.

The Parkland activists have already published a comprehensive gun reform agenda.

Fully implementing that would not violate the 2nd amendment.

Implement it. 

Move on and deal the real stuff that could actually happen, and even the real stuff will take determined activism probably for decades.

That's the way it is. 

Believe it or not, this post is not meant to be a reflection of pessimism. 

The Parkland movement has shifted things so that most Americans can now imagine actually moving forward on these issues. That in itself is a hugely positive change that has ALREADY happened. 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

But why should it NOT be changed.

 

It was enacted in 1791 or so it makes sense to update it after 227 years.

 

Condititions have changed considerably in the last couple of centuries.

 

Children and students were not slaughtered in schools then as they are now on a weekly basis in the USA.

It's not a question of "why not", it's the process that has to be carried out to do so, and in the current political climate it's not going to reach the required number of states to do so.

I could be wrong of course and that could be pigs flying past my window.

[Scott]

I think the prevailing attitude of many, and I know it was stated by David Hogg, that they were not against the 2nd Amendment.  

Rallies and Marches will bring out all kinds of people from those who want a repeal, those that want control and everything in between.  

 

[lannarebirth]

12 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Ask this young woman Emma Gonzalez why she and hundreds of thousnads of other people, young and old why they are protesting. They cannot live with the carnage nor should they have to. It ISN'T an exercise in registering young Democrats but the reality of the USA today.

 

I'm not suggesting she should have to live with it. I'm suggesting she is a pawn in a game she doesn't even know she's in. Wishing something would change doesn't change anything or I'd have straightened out the US a long time ago.

[lannarebirth]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Going after the 2nd amendment is a waste of time.

Why?

That would only be needed if the goal was an Australian style solution.

Over 90 percent of Americans don't even want an Australian solution.

The Parkland activists have already published a comprehensive gun reform agenda.

Fully implementing that would not violate the 2nd amendment.

Implement it. 

Move on and deal the real stuff that could actually happen, and even the real stuff will take determined activism probably for decades.

That's the way it is. 

Believe it or not, this post is not meant to be a reflection of pessimism. 

The Parkland movement has shifted things so that most Americans can now imagine actually moving forward on these issues. That in itself is a hugely positive change that has ALREADY happened. 

 

But it isn't really moving forward because if you enact these changes and the mass shootings continue they're going to want to come back for a second bite of the apple, which plays right into the hands of the gun nuts. Game over.

[Scott]

The issue of school shootings certainly has something to do with guns, but it also has a great deal to do with being a social phenomenon.    There are no doubt a number of factors and influences that have brought this about.  

 

Here's a link to a 13 year old who was recently arrested for planning a school shooting:

 

http://fox41yakima.com/13-year-old-arrested-for-allegedly-planning-school-shooting/

[billd766]

14 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I'm not suggesting she should have to live with it. I'm suggesting she is a pawn in a game she doesn't even know she's in. Wishing something would change doesn't change anything or I'd have straightened out the US a long time ago.

 

Emma and her many thousands of supporters stand a far better chance together than you would on your own. You are one voice and one vote, they are many voices and many votes and they will not forget their murdered friends as easily as the NRA and politicians on all sides want to.

 

You are suggesting that she is simply a pawn in a game.

 

I believe that she is a catalyst and a game changer.

 

The USA is about 6 months away from mid term elections I believe and there will be a few nervous politicians about now.

[Thakkar]

As promised. Montana gun owners rally:

 

 

[lannarebirth]

8 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Emma and her many thousands of supporters stand a far better chance together than you would on your own. You are one voice and one vote, they are many voices and many votes and they will not forget their murdered friends as easily as the NRA and politicians on all sides want to.

 

You are suggesting that she is simply a pawn in a game.

 

I believe that she is a catalyst and a game changer.

 

The USA is about 6 months away from mid term elections I believe and there will be a few nervous politicians about now.

 

And what change do you foresee? They will get one shot at this. The demands they've made so far don't really affect any change even if they get them. they're not going to be able to go back and ask for more. Given that, something else is afoot, which is an emotionally driven voter election drive and fund raising. They'll be invited to all the NOW and PETA fundraisers till some new thing comes along.

[Rhys]

Stroke it students..

 

[billd766]

25 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

And what change do you foresee? They will get one shot at this. The demands they've made so far don't really affect any change even if they get them. they're not going to be able to go back and ask for more. Given that, something else is afoot, which is an emotionally driven voter election drive and fund raising. They'll be invited to all the NOW and PETA fundraisers till some new thing comes along.

 

If that is all you can see then, I feel sorry for you and sad for the population of the USA.

 

I can forsee that in the next several years there will be more and more slaughters at schools and that more and more people will protest and vote against the second amendment. The NRA will not be able to stop the protests, more and more politicians will realise where the votes are, and will reluctantly turn away from guns and the second amendment and the NRA.

 

I am fortunate in that I have no family in the USA, no nephews or nieces and nobody that I care about. However for every student slaughtered at a school in the USA there are parents, brothers, sisters, cousins etc and they will all have a vote, I I hope that they will turn out at elections and vote out ALL the politicians who vote against gun control, be they Republicans or Democrats, or anything else, members of the House, of the Senate and even POTUS.

 

There is NO NEED for so many guns in the USA.

 

Repael the Second amendment. If a criminal has a gun and is caught with it committing a crime, then execute him. No long drawn out appeals and 20 or 30 years on death row.

 

One strike and you are out.

[lannarebirth]

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

If that is all you can see then, I feel sorry for you and sad for the population of the USA.

 

I can forsee that in the next several years there will be more and more slaughters at schools and that more and more people will protest and vote against the second amendment. The NRA will not be able to stop the protests, more and more politicians will realise where the votes are, and will reluctantly turn away from guns and the second amendment and the NRA.

 

I am fortunate in that I have no family in the USA, no nephews or nieces and nobody that I care about. However for every student slaughtered at a school in the USA there are parents, brothers, sisters, cousins etc and they will all have a vote, I I hope that they will turn out at elections and vote out ALL the politicians who vote against gun control, be they Republicans or Democrats, or anything else, members of the House, of the Senate and even POTUS.

 

There is NO NEED for so many guns in the USA.

 

Repael the Second amendment. If a criminal has a gun and is caught with it committing a crime, then execute him. No long drawn out appeals and 20 or 30 years on death row.

 

One strike and you are out.

 

I agree with you but no one wants to change the Second Amendment. Or f they do they don't want to risk the bad amendments they like being changed. You think corporations and PACS want a Constitutional Convention that could do away with Citizens United.? Term Limits, Abortion, Balanced Budgets, Campaign Finance Reform? Bite your tongue!

 

I do agree however that this next generation will affect great change however, but things aren't bad enough yet and they're still a bit too young for that to begin IMO.

[billd766]

13 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I agree with you but no one wants to change the Second Amendment. Or f they do they don't want to risk the bad amendments they like being changed. You think corporations and PACS want a Constitutional Convention that could do away with Citizens United.? Term Limits, Abortion, Balanced Budgets, Campaign Finance Reform? Bite your tongue!

 

I do agree however that this next generation will affect great change however, but things aren't bad enough yet and they're still a bit too young for that to begin IMO.

 

8 massacres in schools and colleges in 2018 so far and you think things are not bad enough yet.

 

IMHO they are the right age to start and to see it through while the current dinosaurs have no idea what is going on and will be dying off, but not quickly enough.

 

[utalkin2me]

Nobody is going to defeat the nra, it doesn’t matter how many shootings there are. 

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

Nobody is going to defeat the nra, it doesn’t matter how many shootings there are. 

Nobody is going to make them go away, that's true, but it is possible to change at least some policies that they oppose. Their disgusting game plan is to oppose everything and anything that represents reasonable gun restrictions. The Parkland activists have brought their B.S. which we already knew about more under the spotlight. It's a beginning. 

[utalkin2me]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Nobody is going to make them go away, that's true, but it is possible to change at least some policies that they oppose. Their disgusting game plan is to oppose everything and anything that represents reasonable gun restrictions. The Parkland activists have brought their B.S. which we already knew about more under the spotlight. It's a beginning. 

Only time will tell I suppose. Usually even when an organization like nra loses a fight, they get something in return. If there are any changes, that’s what I bet will happen ie, it’ll look like a victory, but in the long run they’ll just leverage more power out of it somehow. They don’t get where they are by thinking like the average joe. 

[Credo]

And meanwhile, Laura Ingraham from Fox News taunts David Hogg and he goes after her through her sponsors and scores a big win:

 

Republican Strategist Nails Why David Hogg Got To Laura Ingraham

 

Republican strategist Steve Schmidt said it came down to one characteristic that led Parkland, Florida, school shooting survivor and gun control activist David Hogg to get an apology from Fox News host Laura Ingraham: fearlessness. 

“Maybe that’s what happens after you’ve been down range of an AR-15 that kills your classmates and comes close to killing you,” Schmidt said Thursday on Nicolle Wallace’s MSNBC show. “You lose all fear. Because this kid’s not scared. He’s not scared of the NRA. He’s not intimidated and scared by Laura Ingraham.”

Schmidt said that Hogg and his classmates are not like the elected Republican officials who are “scared to death of Fox News, of Laura Ingraham, of Rush Limbaugh.”

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-strategist-nails-why-david-022111121.html

[anon537687643]

“No more or we vote you out”? Uhh! Unless enough voters think it’s important enough and get off their asses in November , back
candidates who want real gun reform, then nothing will change! It’s the equivalent of the carnage on the roads in Thailand except Thailand doesn’t have some constitutional 18 th century amendment!


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[lannarebirth]

10 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

8 massacres in schools and colleges in 2018 so far and you think things are not bad enough yet.

 

IMHO they are the right age to start and to see it through while the current dinosaurs have no idea what is going on and will be dying off, but not quickly enough.

 

I think we want the same thing but are talking at cross purposes. Let me ask you, do you know what is involved in repealing or altering an amendment to the US Constitution?

 

Quote

 Amendments may be proposed either by the Congress with a two-thirds vote in both the House of Representativesand the Senate or by a convention of states called for by two-thirds of the state legislatures.^[1] To become part of the Constitution, an amendment must be ratified by either—as determined by Congress—the legislatures of three-quarters of the states or state ratifying conventions in three-quarters of the states.^[2] The vote of each state (to either ratify or reject a proposed amendment) carries equal weight, regardless of a state's population or length of time in the Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution

 

I applaud these kids for their passion and activism but that's not how you repeal or alter the Constitution. Everyone but these kids knows that and that's why they haven't done it yet. There are several things in the Constitution that need amending but it doesn't get done because each party benefits (or thinks they do) from those things in some way.

Edited March 30, 2018 by lannarebirth

[anon537687643]

So stuck in a hole! Divided and discredited !


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[billd766]

12 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

I think we want the same thing but are talking at cross purposes. Let me ask you, do you know what is involved in repealing or altering an amendment to the US Constitution?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution

 

I applaud these kids for their passion and activism but that's not how you repeal or alter the Constitution. Everyone but these kids knows that and that's why they haven't done it yet. There are several things in the Constitution that need amending but it doesn't get done because each party benefits (or thinks they do) from those things in some way.

 

OTOH if nobody does anything then nothing will change.

 

Think back only 50 years or so when the USA had segregation. Only a few people opposed that in the beginning but eventually segregation was overturned. The same for slavery and many other causes. Everything starts from a few people to encompass enough people to force the changes through.

 

At the end of the day and IMHO it won't be that many years, people WILL get off their ass and vote. It will beging with the students and the younger generation and probably get boosted by women, mothers and grandmothers and eventually younger men with common sense will join in.

 

Woe betide politicians with only small majorities and the dinosaurs too.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, markaoffy said:

“No more or we vote you out”? Uhh! Unless enough voters think it’s important enough and get off their asses in November , back
candidates who want real gun reform, then nothing will change! It’s the equivalent of the carnage on the roads in Thailand except Thailand doesn’t have some constitutional 18 th century amendment!


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

True, but most of the schoolchildren on the march will not be able to take part in primaries to select candidates and will not be able to vote in November. 

[billd766]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

True, but most of the schoolchildren on the march will not be able to take part in primaries to select candidates and will not be able to vote in November. 

 

But their parents and other friends parents will be able to vote.

[Thakkar]

"And these children that you spit on

As they try to change their world 

Are immune to your consultations 

They're quite aware of what they're going through" 

 

David Bowie