UK Labour leader Corbyn apologises for anti-Semitism in his party‍​

[midas]

21 hours ago, dexterm said:

It is constantly hyped up in the news almost daily rehashing events of weeks/months/years ago, because a certain foreign power is orchestrating a campaign to undermine Corbyn because of his stance against the abuse of human and civil rights by that same foreign power. 

Corbyn has apologized for any actions by Labor members, suspended and expelled some, set up investigations, read the riot act to anyone who may display anti semitism, met with Jewish leaders to work out how to confront the issue. Good lord..I don't know what else the man can do.

Interestingly the UK conservative parties who may harbor some serious anti semites never get this sort of targeted treatment. It's all part of a very nasty campaign to prevent Corbyn becoming PM, and his influence in foreign policy that may entail.

 

I suggest you view "The Lobby" available on Youtube to see how a certain foreign power operates to manipulate UK politics.

I was even wondering whether these kind of activities are in fact legal? I found the following commentary but this time regarding the Conservative party very interesting................

 

Quote

 

The revelations provoked an immediate political reaction, with Desmond Swayne, a former Conservative minister and parliamentary aide to former prime minister David Cameron, calling for the incident to be "investigated thoroughly".

"What we cannot have is Israel acting in the UK with the same impunity it enjoys in Palestine," he told Middle East Eye. "This is clearly interference in another country's politics of the murkiest and most discreditable kind."

 

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/revealed-secret-tapes-expose-israeli-influence-over-uk-conservative-party-662911554

Edited April 27, 2018 by midas

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

4 hours ago, jayboy said:

I wasn't pinning the words on you.I was simply repeating one of the unfortunately common tropes of the anti Semites, an example of which (the picture of cartoonish Jews conspiring round a table) recently embarrassed Jeremy Corbyn.

No jayboy, you were pinning the words on me.

 

Wind your anger in and come back with some reasoned and respectful arguments. You might win people over.

 

As it is you are projecting seething anger. 

 

He wasn't pinning the words on you, but he prefaced his nonsense with "the mask has slipped" . I've always been of the belief that reasonable debate requires intellectual honesty. Never mind.

[Swimman]

An 'apology' from Commissar "Clown" Cor-Bin -- is valueless nothing will change and Cor-Bin's bosses within Momentum and the Communist trade unions will continue to determine policy.

[jayboy]

13 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

He wasn't pinning the words on you, but he prefaced his nonsense with "the mask has slipped" . I've always been of the belief that reasonable debate requires intellectual honesty. Never mind.

Perhaps you don't understand that one of the characteristics of Anti semitism is the suggestion there is a  global Jewish conspiracy.Chomper seemed to allude to this but looking back I was wrong to suggest he was an anti Semite for which I don't have evidence.I apologize for that.However in discussing this issue there's a need to tread carefully, and ,making allowance for his naivety, his language certainly wasn't careful.Some might think I'm being too pernickety here.Perhaps but my defense is that anti Semitism isn't usually full on these days.It's learnt to project itself by sly allusion.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

Perhaps you don't understand that one of the characteristics of Anti semitism is the suggestion there is a  global Jewish conspiracy.Chomper seemed to allude to this but looking back I was wrong to suggest he was an anti Semite for which I don't have evidence.I apologize for that.However in discussing this issue there's a need to tread carefully, and ,making allowance for his naivety, his language certainly wasn't careful.Some might think I'm being too pernickety here.Perhaps but my defense is that anti Semitism isn't usually full on these days.It's learnt to project itself by sly allusion.

Many thanks to Khun Han for taking receipt of Jayboy's apology to me, albeit that the apology is spiked with accusations of my naivety and an excuse for his own 'persnicketiness' arising from anti-semitism projecting itself by 'sly allusion'. 

 

If I were to make such spiked apologies, I too might feel the need to deliver them via third parties. 

 

Let's be very clear: Anti-Semitism is an obscene form of racism and has, over centuries, lead to the most despicable race crimes, anti-Semitism was the foundation of the crimes committed against the Jews in the Holocaust of WWII and the driving force behind the widespread cooperation of individuals, institutions and nations with the Nazis in the establishment and execution of the Holocaust. 

 

Anti-Semitism must, like all forms of racism, always be challenged and stamped out - Anti-Semitism is not a matter of free speech, free thought, or a victim of political correctness. Anti-Semitism is hate, there is no better example of hate.

 

Now accept, just as we need to all fight anti-Semitism, we must guard against unwarranted accusations of anti-Semitism.

 

Anti-Semitsm is an abomination, we non of us should accuse others of this without solid evidence.

 

In my mind anti-Semitism is up there with pedophilia, a disgusting evil.

 

Do not accuse others of these disgusting evils without good cause and if you do, expect a reaction.

 

Whether or not you make an personal apology or not is of no consequence other than as a measure of who you are, not at all an insight into the person you accuse.

[SheungWan]

Always the interesting thing about threads such as these is the ease with which the so-called hard-left populists are prepared to lie down and get into bed with the harder-line conspiracy theory hard right ie repeat, wash and rinse the old fascist mantras. Its the old saying that if you lie down with dogs you are going to get fleas and there are plenty of them hopping about above. Flip it round and the hard left doesn't even blink an eyelid at the hard right nasties queuing up to anoint Corbyn. They welcome them onboard as Comrades for this trip.

[jayboy]

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Many thanks to Khun Han for taking receipt of Jayboy's apology to me, albeit that the apology is spiked with accusations of my naivety and an excuse for his own 'persnicketiness' arising from anti-semitism projecting itself by 'sly allusion'. 

 

If I were to make such spiked apologies, I too might feel the need to deliver them via third parties. 

 

Let's be very clear: Anti-Semitism is an obscene form of racism and has, over centuries, lead to the most despicable race crimes, anti-Semitism was the foundation of the crimes committed against the Jews in the Holocaust of WWII and the driving force behind the widespread cooperation of individuals, institutions and nations with the Nazis in the establishment and execution of the Holocaust. 

 

Anti-Semitism must, like all forms of racism, always be challenged and stamped out - Anti-Semitism is not a matter of free speech, free thought, or a victim of political correctness. Anti-Semitism is hate, there is no better example of hate.

 

Now accept, just as we need to all fight anti-Semitism, we must guard against unwarranted accusations of anti-Semitism.

 

Anti-Semitsm is an abomination, we non of us should accuse others of this without solid evidence.

 

In my mind anti-Semitism is up there with pedophilia, a disgusting evil.

 

Do not accuse others of these disgusting evils without good cause and if you do, expect a reaction.

 

Whether or not you make an personal apology or not is of no consequence other than as a measure of who you are, not at all an insight into the person you accuse.

I made an apology since on reflection it seemed to me you were probably not guilty of anti Semitism despite your careless use of language resonant of those who believe in some kind of Jewish conspiracy to subvert Western governments in favour of Israel.

 

Your naivety and ignorance however cannot be denied.I am ignoring your absurd statement that anti Semitism is "up there" with pedophilia.

 

But take your actual words:

 

"So where is the antisemitism in the Labour Party or on the part of Corbyn?"

 

This betrays perhaps dishonesty (I don't know) but certainly a wilful blindness and ignorance.You may now wish to retract or wheel back or say you have been "misinterpreted".

 

But the overall picture seems clear given you apparently question even the old booby Corbyn's admission that the Labour Party has an anti Semitism crisis.

 

[jayboy]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

Always the interesting thing about threads such as these is the ease with which the so-called hard-left populists are prepared to lie down and get into bed with the harder-line conspiracy theory hard right ie repeat, wash and rinse the old fascist mantras. Its the old saying that if you lie down with dogs you are going to get fleas and there are plenty of them hopping about above. Flip it round and the hard left doesn't even blink an eyelid at the hard right nasties queuing up to anoint Corbyn. They welcome them onboard as Comrades for this trip.

That's true and thank you for pointing it out.Anti Semitism unites the vile extremes of Left and Right.It seems sadly there are also useful idiots who though perhaps not Jew haters themselves will always find a reason to explain away abuse - while naturally braying that they are the greatest critics of anti Semitism.

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, jayboy said:

I made an apology since on reflection it seemed to me you were probably not guilty of anti Semitism despite your careless use of language resonant of those who believe in some kind of Jewish conspiracy to subvert Western governments in favour of Israel.

Your naivety and ignorance however cannot be denied.I am ignoring your absurd statement that anti Semitism is "up there" with pedophilia.

But take your actual words:

"So where is the antisemitism in the Labour Party or on the part of Corbyn?"

This betrays perhaps dishonesty (I don't know) but certainly a wilful blindness and ignorance.You may now wish to retract or wheel back or say you have been "misinterpreted".

But the overall picture seems clear given you apparently question even the old booby Corbyn's admission that the Labour Party has an anti Semitism crisis.

One of the really old school hard right party trick routines is to play the innocent card, so not worth getting caught up in that nonsense.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

One of the really old school hard right party trick routines is to play the innocent card, so not worth getting caught up in that nonsense.

Especially if it means you have to prove guilt. 

 

Unsubstantiated accusations are so much more convenient.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

I made an apology since on reflection it seemed to me you were probably not guilty of anti Semitism despite your careless use of language resonant of those who believe in some kind of Jewish conspiracy to subvert Western governments in favour of Israel.

 

Your naivety and ignorance however cannot be denied.I am ignoring your absurd statement that anti Semitism is "up there" with pedophilia.

 

But take your actual words:

 

"So where is the antisemitism in the Labour Party or on the part of Corbyn?"

 

This betrays perhaps dishonesty (I don't know) but certainly a wilful blindness and ignorance.You may now wish to retract or wheel back or say you have been "misinterpreted".

 

But the overall picture seems clear given you apparently question even the old booby Corbyn's admission that the Labour Party has an anti Semitism crisis.

 

My views on Anti-Semitism are very clear: In full (again)

 

Let's be very clear: Anti-Semitism is an obscene form of racism and has, over centuries, lead to the most despicable race crimes, anti-Semitism was the foundation of the crimes committed against the Jews in the Holocaust of WWII and the driving force behind the widespread cooperation of individuals, institutions and nations with the Nazis in the establishment and execution of the Holocaust. 

 

Anti-Semitism must, like all forms of racism, always be challenged and stamped out - Anti-Semitism is not a matter of free speech, free thought, or a victim of political correctness. Anti-Semitism is hate, there is no better example of hate.

 

Now accept, just as we need to all fight anti-Semitism, we must guard against unwarranted accusations of anti-Semitism.

 

Anti-Semitsm is an abomination, we non of us should accuse others of this without solid evidence.

 

In my mind anti-Semitism is up there with pedophilia, a disgusting evil.

 

Do not accuse others of these disgusting evils without good cause and if you do, expect a reaction.

 

On the matter of Naivity:

 

The governments and security services of the the UK, the USA, France, Germany, Russia, China, Thailand, India, Turkey, Iran, etc etc all act overtly and covertly to project their national, political and security interests. They all engage in overt and covert lobbying via groups who support their national, political and security interests; all of these nations have (in peace time) had a history of interfering in the political processes of other nations. 

 

It is utter naivety to assume that Israel does not act likewise.

 

 

[midas]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

I made an apology since on reflection it seemed to me you were probably not guilty of anti Semitism despite your careless use of language resonant of those who believe in some kind of Jewish conspiracy to subvert Western governments in favour of Israel.

 

Your naivety and ignorance however cannot be denied.I am ignoring your absurd statement that anti Semitism is "up there" with pedophilia.

 

But take your actual words:

 

"So where is the antisemitism in the Labour Party or on the part of Corbyn?"

 

This betrays perhaps dishonesty (I don't know) but certainly a wilful blindness and ignorance.You may now wish to retract or wheel back or say you have been "misinterpreted".

 

But the overall picture seems clear given you apparently question even the old booby Corbyn's admission that the Labour Party has an anti Semitism crisis.

 

 

Even if   there is anti-Semitism in the Labour Party would it justify the use of threatening and violent revenge against those that might have opposing views such as when Director of the Jewish Labour Movement Ella Rose was caught out on hidden camera speaking about labour activist  Jackie Walker?

 

Quote

 

“I saw Jackie Walker on Saturday and thought, you know what, I could take her, she’s like 5’2 and tiny,” Rose said in September.

“That’s why I can take Jackie Walker. Krav Maga training,” she said, referring to the Israeli army hand-to-hand fighting technique. “I’m not bad at it. If it came to it I would win, that’s all I really care about.”

( Walker is a long-time anti-racist and anti-Zionist Jewish activist in Labour.)

 

 

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/jewish-labour-movement-director-investigated-violent-threat

 

 

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

My views on Anti-Semitism are very clear: In full (again)

 

< snip - no need to repeat recent post>

 

 

On the matter of Naivity:

 

The governments and security services of the the UK, the USA, France, Germany, Russia, China, Thailand, India, Turkey, Iran, etc etc all act overtly and covertly to project their national, political and security interests. They all engage in overt and covert lobbying via groups who support their national, political and security interests; all of these nations have (in peace time) had a history of interfering in the political processes of other nations. 

 

It is utter naivety to assume that Israel does not act likewise.

 

 

I am not commenting in detail on your naivety thoughts.They are juvenile but seem to conclude that it is ok to project a global Jewish conspiracy because all countries project their interests.You conflate the Israeli Government with Jews, a classic giveaway but let that pass for now.

 

What I am wondering is whether you will respond to the question - which so far you have studiously ignored - over your own words :

 

"So where is the antisemitism in the Labour Party or on the part of Corbyn?"

 

Will you respond or duck the question (yet) again?

[jayboy]

51 minutes ago, midas said:

 

Even if   there is anti-Semitism in the Labour Party would it justify the use of threatening and violent revenge against those that might have opposing views such as when Director of the Jewish Labour Movement Ella Rose was caught out on hidden camera speaking about labour activist  Jackie Walker?

 

 

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/jewish-labour-movement-director-investigated-violent-threat

 

 

Er, no it wouldn't.But your source (see below) is contaminated.

 

Your source electronicintifada is the media wing of a notorious far left Hamas supporting front which using the link you provided managed to  give a heartfelt defense of an activist Marc Wadsworth recently expelled from the Labour Party for his threatening behaviour and hateful language about Jews.

 

Yes folks you heard it here first - someone kicked out of the Labour Party for hateful anti Semitic behaviour too excessive even for Jeremy Corbyn

[midas]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

Er, no it wouldn't.But your source (see below) is contaminated.

 

Your source electronicintifada is the media wing of a notorious far left Hamas supporting front which using the link you provided managed to  give a heartfelt defense of an activist Marc Wadsworth recently expelled from the Labour Party for his threatening behaviour and hateful language about Jews.

 

Yes folks you heard it here first - someone kicked out of the Labour Party for hateful anti Semitic behaviour too excessive even for Jeremy Corbyn

 

LOL  love your failed attempt to try to shoot the messenger but it doesn't work in this case because it doesn't matter who the source was. The fact is Ella Rose was caught out on  camera speaking those words.

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, SheungWan said:

One of the really old school hard right party trick routines is to play the innocent card, so not worth getting caught up in that nonsense.

They know what they are doing. Completely ignoring all the examples that came up earlier in the thread makes a bad joke of their faux innocence. That we understand. We know how these guys operate. What has to be pointed out however is that the hard left gives them not only a free pass but lines up alongside them. Comrades. So further protestations of being against anti-Semitism just so much hot air and dishonest posturing. Whether the Labour party is able to kick out the all the Nasties, entrist or otherwise  is an uncertain project. What is clear is that Corbyn is part of the problem.

[jayboy]

5 minutes ago, midas said:

 

LOL  love your failed attempt to try to shoot the messenger but it doesn't work in this case because it doesn't matter who the source was. The fact is Ella Rose was caught out on  camera speaking those words.

https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/electronic_intifada/

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

I am not commenting in detail on your naivety thoughts.They are juvenile but seem to conclude that it is ok to project a global Jewish conspiracy because all countries project their interests.You conflate the Israeli Government with Jews, a classic giveaway but let that pass for now.

 

What I am wondering is whether you will respond to the question - which so far you have studiously ignored - over your own words :

 

"So where is the antisemitism in the Labour Party or on the part of Corbyn?"

 

Will you respond or duck the question (yet) again?

Your apology, spiked as it was, has not been accompanied by a change in beviour.

 

Here you go again: 'I am not commenting in detail on your naivety thoughts.They are juvenile' you kick-off with a couple of personal insults.

 

Then launch strait into your established habit of putting your words in other people's mouths: 

"They are juvenile but seem to conclude that it is ok to project a global Jewish conspiracy because all countries project their interests.You conflate the Israeli Government with Jews, a classic giveaway but let that pass for now."

 

Jayboy, I make absolutely no comments, conflated or otherwise that there is a 'global Jewish Conspiracy'.

 

It is you Jayboy who has conflated my statements regarding the behaviours of states and inserted your own issues around 'global Jewish Conspiracy'.

 

You conflated these issues and then blamed me for doing so - it appears that you are 'projecting', you are certainly trying to put your words into my mouth.

 

I am really at a loss to explain your behaviour. I do think, on the basis of your posts in this thread, that you have anger issues, I now believe you are 'projecting' and where you invent offence by attributing your own words to others, I must conclude you are actively seeking to be offended. 

 

Please Jayboy, take some time to think about why you are inventing points of view for other people, why you have this need to be angry and why your are projecting your own issues onto others.

 

That you returned to this behaviour so soon after apologising suggests ingrained habit, it's really not healthy Jayboy.

 

...

The question you accuse me of ducking is actually the question I asked. 

 

[midas]

18 minutes ago, jayboy said:

https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/electronic_intifada/

 

So what?

are you trying to infer cameras lie? Or are you trying to discredit Al Jazeera as well?
Of course we know that Israel doesn't like Al Jazeera to spill it secrets  

[jayboy]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

...

The question you accuse me of ducking is actually the question I asked. 

 

More prevarication.I doubt whether we will ever get an honest answer from you.Still here goes.

 

Here is the question you asked again.

 

"So where is the antisemitism in the Labour Party or on the part of Corbyn?"

 

I'll make it easy for you.Nobody suggests Corbyn is guilty of anti Semitism: indeed he has openly agreed there is a worrying degree of it.

 

All you have to concentrate on therefore is one point.Where is anti Semitism in the Labour Party?

 

 

[jayboy]

17 minutes ago, midas said:

 

So what?

are you trying to infer cameras lie? Or are you trying to discredit Al Jazeera as well?
Of course we know that Israel doesn't like Al Jazeera to spill it secrets  

I think we all know where you're coming from now.

[midas]

21 minutes ago, jayboy said:

I think we all know where you're coming from now.

You mean exposing the utter hypocrisy of those who try to play the anti-Semitism card?

[jayboy]

8 minutes ago, midas said:

You mean exposing the utter hypocrisy of those who try to play the anti-Semitism card?

I think we all know where you're coming from now.

[midas]

It's very difficult to argue with  a former Israeli government Minister(  Shulamit Aloni ) when she decides to explain what's going on

 

 

[jayboy]

10 minutes ago, midas said:

It's very difficult to argue with  a former Israeli government Minister(  Shulamit Aloni ) when she decides to explain what's going on

 

 

I think we all know where you're coming from.

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, midas said:

It's very difficult to argue with  a former Israeli government Minister(  Shulamit Aloni ) when she decides to explain what's going on

 

 

Is that like the 100th time that video has been posted here? In any case, I don't think what she said is really wrong per se, but that doesn't mean that sometimes (in my experience, often) criticism of Israel is indeed infected with antisemitism. Also it is definitely not true that all diaspora Jews blindly support Israeli policy. In that sense, that video may be seen as VERY DATED.  You will note she didn't say that criticism of Israel is never infected with Jew hating either. It's usually fairly easy to tell the difference between reasoned criticism and toxic hateful insinuations (or worse). But not always and there are some grey areas.

[jayboy]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Is that like the 100th time that video has been posted here? In any case, I don't think what she said is really wrong per se, but that doesn't mean that sometimes (in my experience, often) criticism of Israel is indeed infected with antisemitism. Also it is definitely not true that all diaspora Jews blindly support Israeli policy. In that sense, that video may be seen as VERY DATED.  You will note she didn't say that criticism of Israel is never infected with Jew hating either. It's usually fairly easy to tell the difference between reasoned criticism and toxic hateful insinuations (or worse). But not always and there are some grey areas.

Anti Semites often try to justify their behaviour by saying it's just legitimate criticism of the state of Israel.Of course criticism of Israel is justified and has nothing to do with anti Semitism.But when Israel is constantly singled out - as for example at the UN - when far worse abusers are ignored, then one begins to wonder.Another tell tale indicator is the comparison of the actions of the Israel state with Nazi Germany.I agree your comments on the video.

[Asiantravel]

17 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Anti Semites often try to justify their behaviour by saying it's just legitimate criticism of the state of Israel.Of course criticism of Israel is justified and has nothing to do with anti Semitism.But when Israel is constantly singled out - as for example at the UN - when far worse abusers are ignored, then one begins to wonder.Another tell tale indicator is the comparison of the actions of the Israel state with Nazi Germany.I agree your comments on the video.

which countries are the far worse abusers that you refer  to?

[Timbob]

4 hours ago, jayboy said:

Er, no it wouldn't.But your source (see below) is contaminated.

 

Your source electronicintifada is the media wing of a notorious far left Hamas supporting front which using the link you provided managed to  give a heartfelt defense of an activist Marc Wadsworth recently expelled from the Labour Party for his threatening behaviour and hateful language about Jews.

 

Yes folks you heard it here first - someone kicked out of the Labour Party for hateful anti Semitic behaviour too excessive even for Jeremy Corbyn

That's not true and a is a total distortion of the events. He was kicked out on the very flimsy basis of "bringing the party into disrepute" and not for any anti Semitic behaviour - because there was no such thing. Just because someone feels what he said was anti Semitic does not make it true. If you can explain why what he said was anti Semitic then please do. 

 

My uncle is Israeli and I've been to Israel. I have no time for anti Semites. 

 

Personally I'm sick of the hypocritical right-wing media (including the BBC) portraying a decent and honorable man (Jeremy Corbyn) as some kind of anti Semite. He is not and neither are 99% of the Labour Party. It is just another smear campaign because they have nothing on him. Nothing! 

[jayboy]

6 minutes ago, Timbob said:

That's not true and a is a total distortion of the events. He was kicked out on the very flimsy basis of "bringing the party into disrepute" and not for any anti Semitic behaviour - because there was no such thing. Just because someone feels what he said was anti Semitic does not make it true. If you can explain why what he said was anti Semitic then please do. 

 

My uncle is Israeli and I've been to Israel. I have no time for anti Semites. 

 

Personally I'm sick of the hypocritical right-wing media (including the BBC) portraying a decent and honorable man (Jeremy Corbyn) as some kind of anti Semite. He is not and neither are 99% of the Labour Party. It is just another smear campaign because they have nothing on him. Nothing! 

For the umpteenth time nobody accuses Jeremy Corbyn of anti Semitism, just carelessness and passivity in the face of some vile abusers.I agree with you that the vast majority of the Labour Party are not anti Semites.The problem is with the small minority.You say it is a smear campaign on Jeremy Corbyn which is odd given he has admitted there is a real problem with anti Semitism in the Labour Party.Do you even know about the Chakrabarti report?

 

I'm not getting into a debate on the unpleasant thug Marc Wadsworth recently kicked out of the party.You might also want to do some research on his disgraceful behaviour heckling Jewish MPs.