Whistleblower questions Brexit result, says campaigners broke election law

[CG1 Blue]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s worse thsn that.

 

The argument ‘I am immune to manipulation’ is rediculous without anyone pointing out that for the manipulation to be effective it need only work with a relatively small number of people.

 

When the ballot result comes out at 52/48 a small percentage becomes critical.

A bit like when the government manipulated a large number of people with project fear and dropping an official government leaflet through the door of every house in the country?

 

Come on, just drop this barrel scraping about the 52/48 result and debate the real issues.

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

A bit like when the government manipulated a large number of people with project fear and dropping an official government leaflet through the door of every house in the country?

 

Come on, just drop this barrel scraping about the 52/48 result and debate the real issues.

 

What's so ridiculous about that POV is the notion that people who use Facebook and Twitter for purely social reasons are going to be influenced more by a few political posts/tweets than they are by the Chancellor of the Exchequer telling them he is going to take an extra £4000 a year off them if they vote leave, and the government constantly telling them that voting leave would be a disaster for our country. But, It's a sign that Project Fear is now getting really, really desperate, that this giant red herring is being pushed so hard.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

What's so ridiculous about that POV is the notion that people who use Facebook and Twitter for purely social reasons are going to be influenced more by a few political posts/tweets than they are by the Chancellor of the Exchequer telling them he is going to take an extra £4000 a year off them if they vote leave, and the government constantly telling them that voting leave would be a disaster for our country. But, It's a sign that Project Fear is now getting really, really desperate, that this giant red herring is being pushed so hard.

Because you don’t understand how social media is used to influence public opinion.

 

By the way, people in the UK are already worse off, as are British expats in Thailand reliant on importing GBP for their living expenses.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[malagateddy]

Chomper..can you name any countries where the cost of living is going DOWN ???
I am assuming that you live in such a wonderful country!!

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Chomper..can you name any countries where the cost of living is going DOWN ???
I am assuming that you live in such a wonderful country!!

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Every economy has inflatiin, the UK has that same inflation coupled with inflatiin directly attributed to the post refferendum drop in the pound.

 

How much are you getting for you £ these days?

 

Oh and I’m in Thailand, and I notice a number of my British neighbours have packed up and gone home, the £/฿ rate has not been good news for British expats.

 

 

[malagateddy]

To be honest..any UK expat who came here thinking that they will financially survive on their state pension must have known that they were " skating on very thin ice "
However in my neck of the woods..the expats from various countries are financially ticking over OK..just like myself.
No stupid spending and some self discipline can take you a long way.
Please remember the ages of most expats..no doubt they lived/worked through some hard times in their home countries.
Me..I'm 67..a UK expat and worked through several financial " woopsies ".


Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Every economy has inflatiin, the UK has that same inflation coupled with inflatiin directly attributed to the post refferendum drop in the pound.

 

How much are you getting for you £ these days?

 

Oh and I’m in Thailand, and I notice a number of my British neighbours have packed up and gone home, the £/฿ rate has not been good news for British expats.

 

 

Of course nobody likes losing money, but the two opinion polls conducted here on ThaiVisa showed that the expats here in Thailand are even more in favour in leaving a dysfunctional EU than the original referendum. It's not all about money to some people, some people think integrity has a lot to with it.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Of course nobody likes losing money, but the two opinion polls conducted here on ThaiVisa showed that the expats here in Thailand are even more in favour in leaving a dysfunctional EU than the original referendum. It's not all about money to some people, some people think integrity has a lot to with it.

If you are going to raise the issue of ‘integrity’ then aurely the integrity of the electoral process behind the referrendum is of vital importance.

 

I like Farage’s comment in this:

 

‘A 52/48 would not be game over’

 

I agree, I certainly agree when there is evidence of electoral fraud.

 

As it is, I doubt many TVF members actually voted in the referendum.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If you are going to raise the issue of ‘integrity’ then aurely the integrity of the electoral process behind the referrendum is of vital importance.

 

I like Farage’s comment in this:

 

‘A 52/48 would not be game over’

 

I agree, I certainly agree when there is evidence of electoral fraud.

 

As it is, I doubt many TVF members actually voted in the referendum.

Err, you forgot the 'big red bus; you really need to update your thought process.

[Chomper Higgot]

19 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

To be honest..any UK expat who came here thinking that they will financially survive on their state pension must have known that they were " skating on very thin ice "
However in my neck of the woods..the expats from various countries are financially ticking over OK..just like myself.
No stupid spending and some self discipline can take you a long way.
Please remember the ages of most expats..no doubt they lived/worked through some hard times in their home countries.
Me..I'm 67..a UK expat and worked through several financial " woopsies ".


Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I don’t recall mentioning expats living on the state pension.

 

A drop in the value of the poind hits every expat importing GBP to pay their living expenses, some can afford that drop, some can’t, some haven’t yet realised they can’t.

 

Stay lucky.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Err, you forgot the 'big red bus; you really need to update your thought process.

Perhaps you would like to discuss the Big Red Bus, however the Whistleblower’s testimony is indicating ‘Electoral Fraud’.

 

Lies on the side of a bus are for the gullible to believe, ‘Electoral Fraud’ is a crime.

 

Let’s focus on the subject of the thread.

[vogie]

41 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Every economy has inflatiin, the UK has that same inflation coupled with inflatiin directly attributed to the post refferendum drop in the pound.

 

How much are you getting for you £ these days?

 

Oh and I’m in Thailand, and I notice a number of my British neighbours have packed up and gone home, the £/฿ rate has not been good news for British expats.

Yes lets focus on the subject of the thread.

[Chomper Higgot]

28 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes lets focus on the subject of the thread.

Absolutely:

 

Evidence of electoral fraud in the Brexit Leave campaign.

 

Not a dispute over ‘he said, she said’ opinions but allegations backed up by documented records of electoral fraud.

 

This is going to get very interesting.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

Of course nobody likes losing money, but the two opinion polls conducted here on ThaiVisa showed that the expats here in Thailand are even more in favour in leaving a dysfunctional EU than the original referendum. It's not all about money to some people, some people think integrity has a lot to with it.

You can not infer that.

 

All you can infer is that a majority of Thaivisa members who were interested to contribute to the opinion poll were in favour of leaving.

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because you don’t understand how social media is used to influence public opinion.

 

By the way, people in the UK are already worse off, as are British expats in Thailand reliant on importing GBP for their living expenses.

 

 

 

Wrong. You don't understand how social media works, or how the vast majority of people currently use it, which is for social reasons. This story is a giant red herring. Cambridge Analytica and suchlike are corporate snake oil salesmen. The reality is, hardly anybody takes any notice of their 'targeting' because most people are too busy trying to impress their online friends to let anything as complex as online politics interfere with their fun.

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Absolutely:

 

Evidence of electoral fraud in the Brexit Leave campaign.

 

Not a dispute over ‘he said, she said’ opinions but allegations backed up by documented records of electoral fraud.

 

This is going to get very interesting.

 

 

You're getting over-excited. Wylie has no documented evidence of electoral fraud, and has made no claims that he has. Remainers really, really want this 'story' to have legs, for the same reason that the people creating it do. You're being made fools of by the people you support.

[CG1 Blue]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If you are going to raise the issue of ‘integrity’ then aurely the integrity of the electoral process behind the referrendum is of vital importance.

 

I like Farage’s comment in this:

 

‘A 52/48 would not be game over’

 

I agree, I certainly agree when there is evidence of electoral fraud.

 

As it is, I doubt many TVF members actually voted in the referendum.

You talk as though the Remain campaign was immaculate.  Why can't you just accept both campaigns were flawed and move on?

The referendum is not going to be re-run on the basis of this story, so let it go. (and the bus)

 

[7by7]

On ‎27‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 5:06 AM, nev said:

Just because the vote did not go the way that was planned does not mean the remainder's can demand another vote, would the remainers be demanding another vote if the vote was to stay I don't think so.

No; but elements of the Leave campaign certainly would. 

 

As evidence of this, witness Farage's ranting and demanding a second referendum on polling night when he thought Remain had won by such a small margin.

 

Only to change this to cries of a magnificent victory next morning when he discovered that his side had actually won; albeit by the same small margin he claimed the night before meant another referendum was required!

 

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

Remainers really, really want this 'story' to have legs, for the same reason that the people creating it do. You're being made fools of by the people you support.

I cannot comment for the person you are addressing, but can tell you that this story has very little legs in the UK; partly because it is old news. Such allegations do need to be investigated, and have been since April 2017: Electoral Commission launches investigation into Leave.EU referendum finances.

 

As shown as recently as this morning in an item on BBC Breakfast, most of us who voted Remain have accepted the result. It is only people like Tony (I can't stand being out of the limelight) Blair who are still moaning about it!

 

As is right and proper in a Parliamentary democracy, the final deal will need to be approved by Parliament, but a yea or nay in that will not effect the referendum result nor Brexit; which will happen. Parliament will either accept the deal agreed by the government or it wont and tell the government to go back to the EU to negotiate a different one.

Edited March 29, 2018 by 7by7
Spelling

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

 

You're getting over-excited. Wylie has no documented evidence of electoral fraud, and has made no claims that he has. Remainers really, really want this 'story' to have legs, for the same reason that the people creating it do. You're being made fools of by the people you support.

Let's wait and see shall we.

 

[Khun Han]

By the way, have any credible surveys been done on this social media campaign? Along the lines of: "Did you vote leave because you saw a post by a complete stranger on Twitter/Facebook telling you to do so?"

Edited March 29, 2018 by Khun Han

[CG1 Blue]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Absolutely:

 

Evidence of electoral fraud in the Brexit Leave campaign.

 

Not a dispute over ‘he said, she said’ opinions but allegations backed up by documented records of electoral fraud.

 

This is going to get very interesting.

I think you really believe this story is going to make a difference. Try not to get your hopes up too high.  Otherwise your disappointment when this story becomes next weeks fish & chip paper will be too hard to bear.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

By the way, have any credible surveys been done on this social media campaign? Along the lines of: "Did you vote leave because you saw a post by a complete stranger on Twitter/Facebook telling you to do so?"

Khun Han, 

 

It is clear from your response to the testimony given by the Whistleblower that it has rattled you.

 

The Whistleblower has given his testimony and he has handed the electoral commission documented records of conversations, contracts, invoices, receipts of payment that are all temporaneous to the period and events on which he has given testimony.

 

His testimony gives clear indication that Cambridge Analystica, UKIP, the Leave campaign and BeLeave all gave misleading or incomplete responses to the earlier inquiries. 

 

My view on this is quite simple: Investigate the whistleblower's claims and see what is revealed. 

 

You meanwhile are obviously doing your best to convince yourself that the Whistleblower's testimony is irrelevant. 

 

Let the investigation determine these things. 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I think you really believe this story is going to make a difference. Try not to get your hopes up too high.  Otherwise your disappointment when this story becomes next weeks fish & chip paper will be too hard to bear.

Don't concern yourself with my hopes, pay more attention to your own fears.

[CG1 Blue]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I think you really believe this story is going to make a difference. Try not to get your hopes up too high.  Otherwise your disappointment when this story becomes next weeks fish & chip paper will be too hard to bear.

Don't concern yourself with my hopes, pay more attention to your own fears.

Can you explain what my fears would be please? What do you think is going to happen that frightens me?

[Grouse]

24 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

By the way, have any credible surveys been done on this social media campaign? Along the lines of: "Did you vote leave because you saw a post by a complete stranger on Twitter/Facebook telling you to do so?"

You still don't understand this issue.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

You still don't understand this issue.

He has a gaping gap in his knowledge of rafts of academic research on the subject.

[7by7]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Don't concern yourself with my hopes, pay more attention to your own fears.

 It appears that your hopes are that if it can be proven that there was massive fraud in all the leave campaigning new referendum will be called with a different result.

 

If I am wrong, please correct me.

 

If I am right, then your hopes are in vain. As I have said many times, I voted remain and still believe that 52% of those who voted in the referendum made a massive mistake. But I believe the same after every General election if the party I supported didn't win!

 

The voters of the UK have made a decision, we are a democracy so the thing to do now is make the best of that decision. Of course, whatever the final deal reached with the EU there will be those on both sides who wont like it and so claim the government has sold us out. I foresee the aforementioned Blair and the ridiculous Sturgeon being at the forefront in that.

 

 

[Khun Han]

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Khun Han, 

 

It is clear from your response to the testimony given by the Whistleblower that it has rattled you.

 

The Whistleblower has given his testimony and he has handed the electoral commission documented records of conversations, contracts, invoices, receipts of payment that are all temporaneous to the period and events on which he has given testimony.

 

His testimony gives clear indication that Cambridge Analystica, UKIP, the Leave campaign and BeLeave all gave misleading or incomplete responses to the earlier inquiries. 

 

My view on this is quite simple: Investigate the whistleblower's claims and see what is revealed. 

 

You meanwhile are obviously doing your best to convince yourself that the Whistleblower's testimony is irrelevant. 

 

Let the investigation determine these things. 

 

Christopher Wylie left Cambridge Analytica in mid-2014. Therefore any documents he has cannot, by definition, be tempraneous to the period and events covered.

 

And I find your attitude in this debate astonishing. You want to discuss the subject ad-nauseum, whilst demanding that your debating opponents just put with reading your uninformed nonsense without responding: we have to 'wait and see', apparently!!!

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 It appears that your hopes are that if it can be proven that there was massive fraud in all the leave campaigning new referendum will be called with a different result.

 

If I am wrong, please correct me.

 

If I am right, then your hopes are in vain. As I have said many times, I voted remain and still believe that 52% of those who voted in the referendum made a massive mistake. But I believe the same after every General election if the party I supported didn't win!

 

The voters of the UK have made a decision, we are a democracy so the thing to do now is make the best of that decision. Of course, whatever the final deal reached with the EU there will be those on both sides who wont like it and so claim the government has sold us out. I foresee the aforementioned Blair and the ridiculous Sturgeon being at the forefront in that.

 

 

Sorry I need to correct you.

 

The claim that the voters of the UK have made a decision is only true if the process by which that decision was made was not fraudulent. 

 

Let's see what the investigation reveals.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

Christopher Wylie left Cambridge Analytica in mid-2014. Therefore any documents he has cannot, by definition, be tempraneous to the period and events covered.

 

And I find your attitude in this debate astonishing. You want to discuss the subject ad-nauseum, whilst demanding that your debating opponents just put with reading your uninformed nonsense without responding: we have to 'wait and see', apparently!!!

Christopher Wylie has presented testimony and evidence (documentation) that demonstrate the statements made by Cambridge Analytica to the Parliamentary Commission and the the Electoral Commission are incomplete and misleading (evidence of crimes).

He has also presented evidence that organisations used by the Leave Campaign were in truth subsidiaries of CA (if proven this demonstrates electoral funding fraud).

 

As for posting ad-nauseum, shall we count each other's posts in this discussion?