Enforcement Of 90 Out Of 180 Days

[old wanderer]

Dear old wanderer,

Please excuse my desire to make this cheap joke on your expense:

"I can not be very simpathetic, as here in the USA I see what a shamble we have be allowing 12 million stupid, uneducated and zenophobic Mexicans invade this country, waving there flag...."

How uneducated are they if they know enough about Zeno to fear him...

A paradox?

Vodyanoi

Linguistic trickster

No. I am quite certain that among those 12 million, there surely must be more than two who are doctors!

And besides, everyone knows that if Zeno had his way, those Mexicans would never reach the U.S. border because first they would have to travel half-way, and then half-way of the remaining distance, and then half-way of that . . . Xenophophobia? Hardly, it's just plain old scary!

It is not the educated doctor that pays some coyote to smugle him across the border. We do issue visa's here in the USA and one that allow people to work legally here.

However the failure of the USA to enforce our laws and make a decision on who we desire to invite to our country has led to a situation where all the job I used to do as a child going to school are now off limits and occupied by illegals. This impact society as a whole, as if you are allowed to be selective as to which laws you obey and which you will ignore, eventually you have anarchy.

[cali4995]

now i really am getting pissed off with the inconsintencies here. i have just been to immigration in jomtien to extend my tourist visa. visa history since october 1st is:

oct 29 enter on 30 day visa exempt at suvarnabhmi

nov27 exit at nong khai (30 days up)

dec 4 enter at nong khai on tourist visa (60 days given,expire on 1 feb)

jan 26 extension at jomtien(30 day extension given to expire on3 mar)

the officer told me he could grant me a further 7 days in case of emergency,otherwise at the end of my extension i will have to leave for 3 months!!!!!. this makes no sense to me at all. theyre making it up as they go along i think.its going to be the same old story ,its going to be up to the INDIVIDUAL you deal with and how they interpret it.

RE: inconsistency theory just when i thought i was beginning to understand.....keenok i entered on oct 27th, got two more visa exempt entries and then a tourist visa? so i get two more months than you because i procrastinated?....makes sense to me. i surely hope this is just a misunderstanding with this particular officer? i had a negative experience at that jomtien office as well, the guy barking at me and scowling at his computer monitor like interpol itself was sending him my case file, i have to agree with you, so much seems to depend on the individual officer.

[RoueLeJour]

Thailand would be in breach of international aviation agreements if it turned a holder of a valid visa away at the airport. The visa means you are cleared to enter the country.

BTW, somebody said yesterday just try being a permanent tourist somewhere else. You can be a tourist in Australia as long as you like as long as you qualify for an ETA and leave the country every 3 months. I did it for over two years. The bus to Cambodia is a bit of a drag, though.

[kiakaha]

Just to correct your terminology...

As an Aussie passport holder you are subject to a "Visa Waiver" agreement with Thailand and you get a "Permit" stamp on arrival.

A "Visa on Arrival" is a different thing altogether.

That's what I'm so confused about. Everybody is always talking about Visa on Arrival. I thought there is a bunch of countries that do not need a visa at all and can stay in the Kingdom for 30 days. Most European countries make part of that and get what you exactly call right, a permit stamp. Now somebody tell me whether all this visa on arrival stories are actually talking about this entry without needing a visa or are they really talking about the visa on arrival?

A Visa is a document that gives you the right to travel to a country.

Visas can be obtained at a Thai embassy or consulate abroad.

They can also be obtained at Suvunabhumi airport just prior to reaching the immigration check.This is a "Visa on Arrival"

The Visa will be a document placed in you passport.

There are different Visa types for different purposes..tourism,business etc..,

Visas have a life and must be used within their period of validity.

Some passport holders do not need to obtain a visa when arriving for tourism, business meetings etc.. these nationalities are subject to a "Visa Waiver" agreement.

When you proceed through immigration you will get another stamp in your passport.Based on the type of Visa you have or the nature of you passports Visa Waiver agreement, this stamp will indicate when you have to leave by. This stamp is your "Permit". Permits of stay may be extended, but that is another discussion.

[cali4995]

BABEINTHAILAND

30 day visa on arrival Think you need to understand a bit more about visas

and 30 day permit to stay in Thailand tourist stamps.

Think you got your terminology a bit crossed

Have a nice day.

Look. I've been here nearly 10 years and I still don't know what to call the ###### things! I refer to them as "Visa on Arrival" (VOA) because that sounds reasonable and at least "seemed" to be the accepted convention around here. More recently, I have read posts where people are corrected for using the "VOA" term and told instead something to the effect of "30 day stamp" or "30 day entry permit." Even in Thailand, the thing must have a proper name! (Well, maybe not!

I looked in my passport and the identical entry stamp appears to be used for all entries into the Kingdom regardless of what type of visa you have or don't have. There is a blank line for "Visa class" and on that line (or nearby) they have written the class of my visa depending the occasion: "tourist" or "B" in most cases. In those case where I have entered without a visa, its the same stamp with a Thai character that looks vaguely like an English "W" with a little circle on the top of the left-hand down stroke of the "W", and then ".30". Something like W.30 .

Why is something so basic as to what to call the ###### thing so obscure and controversial???

Aloha,

Rex

ผ.30 trivia question, i think this is an abbreviation for the thai word ผ่อนผัน(pan-pon) to permit or allow. i notice the stamp corresponding to my tourist visa has "tr" written next to visa class. if i ever go back to the immigration office i'll have to ask the nice officer (i'm kidding)

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Thailand would be in breach of international aviation agreements if it turned a holder of a valid visa away at the airport. The visa means you are cleared to enter the country.

BTW, somebody said yesterday just try being a permanent tourist somewhere else. You can be a tourist in Australia as long as you like as long as you qualify for an ETA and leave the country every 3 months. I did it for over two years. The bus to Cambodia is a bit of a drag, though.

FYI, having a valid visa does not necessarily give one the right to enter a country.  

A visa issued by an overseas Embassy or Consulate is essentially a permit to present oneself to the immigration authorities at port of entry.  It is the immigration authorities who control who may enter the country, or not, not the folks who issue the visa.

What the visa does do, however, is absolved the airline of the fine for transporting an ineligible alien to the port of entry, at least in the case of the U.S.

Mac

------ End of Forwarded Message

[rexall]

Dear old wanderer,

Please excuse my desire to make this cheap joke on your expense:

"I can not be very simpathetic, as here in the USA I see what a shamble we have be allowing 12 million stupid, uneducated and zenophobic Mexicans invade this country, waving there flag...."

How uneducated are they if they know enough about Zeno to fear him...

A paradox?

Vodyanoi

Linguistic trickster

No. I am quite certain that among those 12 million, there surely must be more than two who are doctors!

And besides, everyone knows that if Zeno had his way, those Mexicans would never reach the U.S. border because first they would have to travel half-way, and then half-way of the remaining distance, and then half-way of that . . . Xenophophobia? Hardly, it's just plain old scary!

It is not the educated doctor that pays some coyote to smugle him across the border. We do issue visa's here in the USA and one that allow people to work legally here.

However the failure of the USA to enforce our laws and make a decision on who we desire to invite to our country has led to a situation where all the job I used to do as a child going to school are now off limits and occupied by illegals. This impact society as a whole, as if you are allowed to be selective as to which laws you obey and which you will ignore, eventually you have anarchy.

Sir,

My comment about doctors was a meant as jest, a play on words, and obviously not a very good one. [paradox = pair of "docs" = 2 doctors. Get it?] It's an old joke. However, that is why I inserted the emoticon afterward to indicate that the statement was meant as humor.

And yes, boy am I ever terrified that all of those awful Mexican gardeners and bus boys you refer to will, as you say, bring about anarchy and the eventual destruction of American society. However, I am honored to be in the presence of someone who is always obeys every single law, has never complied with a law selectively, and can therefore set the example for the rest of us of how it should be done! BTW, that is also meant as humor.

Aloha,

Rex

[rexall]

RE: inconsistency theory just when i thought i was beginning to understand.....keenok i entered on oct 27th, got two more visa exempt entries and then a tourist visa? so i get two more months than you because i procrastinated?....makes sense to me. i surely hope this is just a misunderstanding with this particular officer? i had a negative experience at that jomtien office as well, the guy barking at me and scowling at his computer monitor like interpol itself was sending him my case file, i have to agree with you, so much seems to depend on the individual officer.

You are confusing papayas with mangoes here. It has practically nothing to do with what the local immigration cop says. S/he can say whatever s/he wants. The only salient questions simply are:

(1) Will a Thai Consulate (especially a regional consulate) issue you a new visa?

(2) Will the border/airport immigration cop question you entering with this new vias?

Although there are some concerns that regional consulates maybecome more stingy in issuing visas, there does not seem to be a pattern emerging that such is the case, at least not at this time.

And . . . correct me if I am wrong, I cannot imagine a border cop turning you away if you have a valid visa no matter how much time or how many visits you have made into the Kingdom in the past six months.

[rexall]

Thailand would be in breach of international aviation agreements if it turned a holder of a valid visa away at the airport. The visa means you are cleared to enter the country.

BTW, somebody said yesterday just try being a permanent tourist somewhere else. You can be a tourist in Australia as long as you like as long as you qualify for an ETA and leave the country every 3 months. I did it for over two years. The bus to Cambodia is a bit of a drag, though.

Sun 28 Jan 07, 8:53 a.m.

What do the evil long-stay tourists in OZ do, just make a short trip to New Zeland & back?

Many Japanese on tourist visas stay in the U.S. indefinitely (mainly in Hawaii because it is closer) by flying home every 90 days, assuming of course that they have the resources to do that.

Aloha,

Rex

[rexall]

BABEINTHAILAND

30 day visa on arrival Think you need to understand a bit more about visas

and 30 day permit to stay in Thailand tourist stamps.

Think you got your terminology a bit crossed

Have a nice day.

Look. I've been here nearly 10 years and I still don't know what to call the ###### things! I refer to them as "Visa on Arrival" (VOA) because that sounds reasonable and at least "seemed" to be the accepted convention around here. More recently, I have read posts where people are corrected for using the "VOA" term and told instead something to the effect of "30 day stamp" or "30 day entry permit." Even in Thailand, the thing must have a proper name! (Well, maybe not!

I looked in my passport and the identical entry stamp appears to be used for all entries into the Kingdom regardless of what type of visa you have or don't have. There is a blank line for "Visa class" and on that line (or nearby) they have written the class of my visa depending the occasion: "tourist" or "B" in most cases. In those case where I have entered without a visa, its the same stamp with a Thai character that looks vaguely like an English "W" with a little circle on the top of the left-hand down stroke of the "W", and then ".30". Something like W.30 .

Why is something so basic as to what to call the ###### thing so obscure and controversial???

Aloha,

Rex

ผ.30 trivia question, i think this is an abbreviation for the thai word ผ่อนผัน(pan-pon) to permit or allow. i notice the stamp corresponding to my tourist visa has "tr" written next to visa class. if i ever go back to the immigration office i'll have to ask the nice officer (i'm kidding)

Thank you for that! I have some "tr" notations as well. Don't know what they mean. "Transit"? "Tourist"? Also some cryptic markings that are not Thai, and could be anything. But the most obvious pattern are "tourist", "B" or "Non-B", and W.30.

Aloha,

Rex

[distortedlink]

I want to see the 30 days visa entry rule abolished, along with visa runs.

The harder time Immigration give these dross, the better.

Get the message, (NOT WANTED HERE)

[tropo]

This will get even more funny when they have to have a rolling start date.. And work around the month ends..

The start date will begin rolling in the first week of April. It won't make a lot of difference as the Immigration would just need to post a new start date everyday to use in their 90 day calculations.

OK so if so simple.. What is 6 months (immigration has consitantly used 6 months not 180 days) before Agust 29 30 or 31 ??

I believe it's 180 days, but either way, does it really matter?

Here's a comparison so you decide if it's a big deal or not:

October 1 to March 30 = 180 days

October 1 to April 1 = 6 months.

The difference is a 2 days.

The Immigration in Thailand always count the start day in their day tally, so that would put their 180th day from October 1 at March 29....a difference of 3 days.

Here's a great little calculator for people who run a tight schedule:

Date Calculator Page

[tropo]

I am postponing buying a condo because of all this crap. And as someone else pointed out, £1000 every 15 months for a trip to the uk for a 1 year visa is expensive and a complete waste of a week.

A wise move. You should really consider canceling the whole idea.

[tropo]

I want to see the 30 days visa entry rule abolished, along with visa runs.

The harder time Immigration give these dross, the better.

Get the message, (NOT WANTED HERE)

Sorry, could you possibly explain that a little more clearly.

[tropo]

Most of the time the people use VOA on this forum they mean entry without visa. Visa on Arrival is a facility for a selected few countries (not allowed visa exempt entry) to obtain a 15 day stay by payment for a visa when they arrive at Immigration border points.

A lot of people get "visa on arrivals" in Cambodia ($20) and Laos ($30), but somehow the concept excapes them when they enter Thailand.

A visa is a document that is applied for and paid for either upon entry into a country, or at a prior time at a Consulate or Embassy.

[andyadam]

This is my first post so please be gently.

I come to Thialand every month (from Aistralia) as part of a business consulting group in IT services. I spend from 2 to 30 days in Thailand but usually 5 to 12 days. Have been doing this for 4 years and have always used the 30day Visa on arrival.

I have been waiting to see how they are going to enforce the 90 out of 180 day limit of stay usng the 30 day visa on arrival as Icould be affacted.

Arrived last night at the airport (25th JAN), nearly 4 months into the new system. Thought it may have been automated - how wrong I was.

The immigration official lokked at my passport and saw the mant entries to Thailadn in the past - she asked me how many days I had spend in Thailand since the 1st of October and I said "about 60". She then went through the passport and identified all the entries and exits since the 1st of October 2006. She added up the days and came to 64 - therefore I was not granted a 30 days visa but a visa which expires in 26 days.

So a few points to note -

- The enforcment of the 90 in 180 days is as per expected and was fair as per the guidelines I understood.

- The is no elcectronic system to automatically calulate the days used or left in the 180 days period.

- The days are counted as per entries in the passport - if you have two passports then I asume you could use two to stay on two lots of "90 out of 180" and be here the whole time - although illegally.

- It is VERY time consuming - it took a good 15 minutes for her to go through my passport and annoyed the people waiting behind me in the line.

- Adding to the time was the issue that typically Thai immigration officers do not put stamps in a chronoloigal order so she had to go thriugh my passport from page 1 to page 64 to check for all entries from Oct 1.

Cheers,

Mike

There is a 3 year nonn imm b visa available but you would have to check out the "consulting" work as the visa is marked "employment prohibited"!!!

Non imm B 3 year

[thaigene2]

I am curious. I gather from your post you are visiting Thailand for work related purposes.

Can this be done with the 30 day visa on arrival?

When you mark your incoming passenger card do you mark the reason for the visit "Holiday" or "Business"?

If you mark "Business" do they ask for more detail and from having many vists wonder why you dont have a work permit?

If you declare you come on a holiday couldnt they do you over if you were found to be working?

I'm not sure on the rules or definitions but am keen to learn for my future plans

Yes, good point.

I'd assume that someone like an IT consultant (or a million other types of 'business' consultant) would be coming in and out on a B-Visa. However, I read somewhere some months back that "Consultants" would no longer be considered for long-term B-Visa stays in Thailand - largely because they don't have an 'employer', much less get a Work Permit once here under that category.

But how are consultants handled in other countries? When an Indian IT guy goes to the UK, Aus or even the US, to work for a few weeks does he need a special work permit?

Here in Thailand, employers I've spoken to say this is a nightmare as far as recruiting short-term international consultants are concerened (my employer regularly uses foriegn consultants - most of whom already live here - but I guess they are here illegally? )

The employers want the services these guys offer, but don;t want the hassle of getting a work permit for someone for just a few weeks or months - never mind paying to fly them in from somewhere else and pay them living expenses etc.

All in all, this is another reason new foreign investment may be warned off coming here - no easily accessable well-trained labour force to draw from - and more obstacles to accessing temporary foreigners who do have the skills.

I'm sure this is all well and truly above the heads of the keystone antics that are going on anyway (the airport, the keystone cop investigations into the bombings, and all the other siliness that seems to take up so much of the 'government's' time..)

It's just more madness as someone above said

[babeinthailand]

Man, you people are like a bunch of old women - panic, panic, panic - yet you've only got half information and hardly any of you have bothered to check at Thai immigration.

I went for my last 30 day visa run last week. I asked THREE different immigration officials and was told "Yes, you can now go to Malaysia and get a 90 day tourist visa as the new 90 days in Thailand law is ONLY FOR VISAS ON ARRIVAL". I mean they've been saying this for months but some of you don't seem to understand VISA ON ARRIVAL. (Hope none of you are teachers as you obviously can't read! :-)

I also have several friends who have gone to Malaysia in the last month after having done 3 thirty day visa runs. Every single one of them was given a 90 day tourist visa. No problem! So yes, you CAN stay 180 days in Thailand, just NOT on a visa on arrival.

All Thai immigration is doing is trying to get people into the system. It's difficult with the 30 day visa runs, but a tourist visa gets you into the system. That's all.

There are many rumours about not being able to get tourist visas but it's not true. It's just from people who know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy. Geez - what a bunch of nervous nellies :-)

who you calling nervous nellie baby in thailand? the point is the inconsistencies that are happening and will continue to happen,not that people are panicing. youve obviously not been here very long or youd realise that asking 3 officials is completely irrelevant. it will depend on the one you deal with on the day. if you get one whos got it all wrong(like you refering to voa lol) then the 3 you asked arent going to help.

Keenok, I've been here seven years - how long have you been here?

[babeinthailand]

Will the Thai Government consider changing the 90 day rule to speed up immigration queues or to make it easier again for people to keep exiting and immediately returning again and again for long stays in Thailand ?

No, to my mind, I don't think so. I don't think they care tuppence about it. The 90 day rule is good enough to cater for the vast majority of tourists and business visitors and hence for their economy. And the Thai Government doesnt care about how much time consuming procedures they inflict on their own immigration officers. It's an autocratic government system even during those time that they have an alleged democracy.

So let's all get used to it. That's the deal. We get 90 days, otherwise there are the longer term visas.

I guess it's all down to previous abuse of the system by a certain section of farangs who were staying in Thailand for a long long time and who included bar owners, teachers and other odds and sods. It didnt help to keep getting headline stories about paedophiles and other perverts of various sorts over the last 10 years or so. Remember the story about the man (German ?) in the north who was accused of giving AIDS to load of Thai girls. Its all these incidents that have finally made the Thai government tighten up on their procedures. Thats that, so we have to live with it. End of story.

Me, in the last 2 years, I have been working on a project in Tunisia. I arrive in Tunis, I get a 3 month visa. After 2 months I go back to UK for a week, and then come back again for another 3 month visa. I have been doing that almost continuously now for 18 months. No problems here. My company has an office here and I could get a proper work permit, but why bother. The 3 month visa is free. I am only on a project here which should finish later this year, so I am not permanently here. So why is it so easy here ? Because Tunisia doesnt get enough tourists yet and there is not a community of badly behaved farangs here to make the government more difficult to the tourist or business visitor. So here the visa problem is non existent.

Cheers

Chips

A little birdie told me that this new 90 in 180 day visa entry exempt law will be scrapped in February and things will return to normal so people can continue to do what they had been use to doing in the past, unlimited monthly visa runs. However, this is just a rumor I heard at work, but from a very crediable scourse, so if I get any other news I will inform.

I've also heard that rumour from a Thai with a very, very, very good connection at immigration and from a farang who knows more about visas than anyone I've ever met, and knows everyone at immigration. Everything he has ever told me has turned out to be true. He hasn't said that it will be February when it's scrapped, but says it's coming soon :-)

[babeinthailand]

I think it's hilarious that the immigration officials are bitching about this rule too!

I talked to the immi guy counting my days last week and said something to the effect "I think it's great that Thailand is stopping the indefinite visa runs". He immediately said "I do NOT. It's crazy. I spend all day counting days, counting days - government should not have done this. Very confusing and many falangs very angry." LOL

He was a really nice guy. Handed me the printed info about getting the 90 day tourist visa and said "Kuala Lumpur and Penang are the best. Some other places still not giving you one when you get there."

I'm going to KL in February anyway, so will do it there.

BTW, does anyone know if KL asks for a) proof of flight OUT of Thailand and

proof of 20,000 baht in the bank

(money doesn't matter, I have that - but don't want to buy another airline ticket if I don't really know when I'll be leaving again, as it's wasted money spent on fees to change the ticket when I don't use it on the day I've booked it for.)

Thanks!

[tygerstar]

My last 3 x 30-day stay permit runs out on 1 Feb 2007 and I would have stayed a total of 90 days since 1 Oct 2006. What would happen if I were to go to Mae Sai one more time for a visa run? Would I be refused re-entry into Thailand (and therefore be stuck in Myanmar) or would they give me permission to stay for another week or so before I have to really get out. I was planning to go home to get a long-term visa anyway but for personal reasons need to be in Thailand until 7 Feb. I'm in Chiang Rai.

[begsaresponse]

This forum is great for exchanging and flagging up information on a host of different topics. But it can't be held responsible for the understanding that individuals have regarding their status in Thailand.

Also many people are too busy listening to 'friends' who give advice. This is the reason why they are confused. The fact that the advice is flawed doesn't seem to impact on their perspective of life here in the land of Smiles.

Foreigners who are here in Thailand are individually responsible for securing their own status here. Many are too busy talkng about it to 'third' parties but never consider going to enquire about their status at the Immigration Office.

Anytime I have been uncertain about my status I speak with an officer at Immigration and I have found they are only too willing to advise.

I can only conclude the reason why many do not do this is because they have something to hide? As individuals you need to 'own' your situation, take action to clarify it,sort it and grow up.

[lopburi3]

My last 3 x 30-day stay permit runs out on 1 Feb 2007 and I would have stayed a total of 90 days since 1 Oct 2006. What would happen if I were to go to Mae Sai one more time for a visa run? Would I be refused re-entry into Thailand (and therefore be stuck in Myanmar) or would they give me permission to stay for another week or so before I have to really get out. I was planning to go home to get a long-term visa anyway but for personal reasons need to be in Thailand until 7 Feb. I'm in Chiang Rai.

You will most likely be told not to leave Thailand as you will not be allowed to return. If you disregard and try to return you are subject to detention-transport to IDC in Bangkok-and deportation as an illegal entry. Will they do that? I don't know; but an immigration web site outlined the procedure recently.

[LivinLOS]

Disillusioned... :

But what has this got to do with Mike who was an Australian businessman travels here

once a month and just wants to know the most practical way to end to the country

temporarily ?

I seem to remember that for 10000 baht one can get a 3 year multiple entry but it still doesnt allow you to work...

If you work for a multinational its a solution if you just consider the cost per month at minimum salry for tax and social security an extra tax for doing it and essentially just charge it back in various ways to the Thais...

Also there are these repeated remarks that you cannot use anything to stay here if you are below 50. It is possible but can only be done via your native country, NOT anywhere else.

Your Local Thai embassy will require official proof you are retired early, have regular income etc and if properly documented they will require a legally translated copy (They will tell you where to get it) and issue a visum. It will obviously not allow you to work... Please donot ask any more details , ask your local Thai embassy in your country....

But surely then the immigration in country will not permit extensions..

Certainly I was told in no uncertain terms that no matter how financially stable I was that retirement was not an option under 50. And no OA would be given.

Thats of course not saying you cant con a non imm O somewhere and do 90 day visa runs but thats not the same.

[rexall]

This forum is great for exchanging and flagging up information on a host of different topics. But it can't be held responsible for the understanding that individuals have regarding their status in Thailand.

Also many people are too busy listening to 'friends' who give advice. This is the reason why they are confused. The fact that the advice is flawed doesn't seem to impact on their perspective of life here in the land of Smiles.

Foreigners who are here in Thailand are individually responsible for securing their own status here. Many are too busy talkng about it to 'third' parties but never consider going to enquire about their status at the Immigration Office.

Anytime I have been uncertain about my status I speak with an officer at Immigration and I have found they are only too willing to advise.

I can only conclude the reason why many do not do this is because they have something to hide? As individuals you need to 'own' your situation, take action to clarify it,sort it and grow up.

Putting aside the condescending, finger-wagging tone, it is very difficult to take this post seriously. Month-after-month, week-after-week, day-after-day on this forum, I have read anecdotes by individuals who have received inconsistent, conflicting, inaccurate, "flawed" (in the words of Begsaresponse), and just plain bad information from officials at immigration offices, border crossings and airports. Seems to me that an immigration official is the LAST person you would want to ask for definitive answers about anything! Of course it makes sense to become aware of such information so that it can be analyzed and compared to various other reports and interpretations, and possibly even obtaining advice from a professional before making a decision.

It is hardly a secret that the various immigration offices across Thailand often have VERY different interpretations and implementation of the identical laws. To suggest that one simply accept the word of some immigration official at face value is PREPOSTEROUS! It is only natural that people seek out the interpretation and application of the law which is most advantageous to their own self interest. To say that in dong so means they have "something to hide" is naive.

Aloha,

Rex

[rexall]

My last 3 x 30-day stay permit runs out on 1 Feb 2007 and I would have stayed a total of 90 days since 1 Oct 2006. What would happen if I were to go to Mae Sai one more time for a visa run? Would I be refused re-entry into Thailand (and therefore be stuck in Myanmar) or would they give me permission to stay for another week or so before I have to really get out. I was planning to go home to get a long-term visa anyway but for personal reasons need to be in Thailand until 7 Feb. I'm in Chiang Rai.

You will most likely be told not to leave Thailand as you will not be allowed to return. If you disregard and try to return you are subject to detention-transport to IDC in Bangkok-and deportation as an illegal entry. Will they do that? I don't know; but an immigration web site outlined the procedure recently.

Being arrested seems a little over-the-top, but knows? However, if you were refused entry to Thailand based upon too many days obtained by "visa run", you would not be "stuck" in Myanmar. You would have to get to a Thai consulate and apply for a proper visa. Unless there is something we do not know yet, based on everything I have read here again and again, it appears at this time that issuing a visa has nothing to do with how many days or how many instances of "visa run" entries you have had into or in Thailand during the prior six months.

Aloha,

Rex

[lopburi3]

I seriously doubt they you are going to be able to get to a Royal Thai Consulate that will issue a tourist visa from most border crossings. Am not even sure there is a Consulate in that country that will issue a tourist visa at this time.

[RoueLeJour]

Thailand would be in breach of international aviation agreements if it turned a holder of a valid visa away at the airport. The visa means you are cleared to enter the country.

BTW, somebody said yesterday just try being a permanent tourist somewhere else. You can be a tourist in Australia as long as you like as long as you qualify for an ETA and leave the country every 3 months. I did it for over two years. The bus to Cambodia is a bit of a drag, though.

Sun 28 Jan 07, 8:53 a.m.

What do the evil long-stay tourists in OZ do, just make a short trip to New Zeland & back?

Many Japanese on tourist visas stay in the U.S. indefinitely (mainly in Hawaii because it is closer) by flying home every 90 days, assuming of course that they have the resources to do that.

Aloha,

Rex

Logically, I suppose, you just scour the internet and travel agents for the cheapest weekend break outside the country, booking as far ahead as you can. I just used to pop over to Bangkok for the weekend every 3 months, discovered Pattaya, and the rest, as they say, is history.

Incidentally, no one ever called me freeloading scum for spending time and money in Oz, and immigration never said anything to me beyond "G'day mate."

The antipathy to visa runners on this site baffles me. All the guys I ever shared a bus with seemed perfectly normal people. I noticed a few visa runners that didn't even live here, they were doing 6 months in, 6 months out to dodge the european winter. Are they freeloading scum too?

If the Thai government wants to implement a "Thailand for Thais" for policy, that's their right, but that doesn't imply there's anything wrong with guys who just want to hang out here, or that they are in some way harming the country.

[babeinthailand]

RoueLeJour, exactly! Good post.

I've been here 7 years, am legally qualified to teach English (TEFL, college degree, 9 years teaching experience etc.) and been legal all that time. I worked at several different private schools - my last school I was there for 4 years. I quit at the end of last semester as I'd deliberately saved a ton of money so I could take a year off and finish writing a novel I've been working on forever. During the 7 years here, I've had a work permit and paid taxes. Now I just want to take a break.

I'm living on money I've saved (no need to work!) and if I decide to not work longer than a year, I'll bring more money in from the US. So, no, I'm not illegally working here. Yet, the Thai government won't let me stay beyond 90 days unless I get a tourist visa. A bit stupid if you ask me because, worst comes to the worst, I'll just take the money I've earned here and that I was planning on spending HERE and go back to the US for a year! Now how is that serving Thailand or making it a better place???

Actually, what I'll probably end up doing, if I can't keep doing visa runs, is just get another teaching job so I can get another work permit. Sucks, because I don't want to teach right now, I want some time off. Grrrrrrr!

[jii]

I want to see the 30 days visa entry rule abolished, along with visa runs.

The harder time Immigration give these dross, the better.

Get the message, (NOT WANTED HERE)

you cant say that being any way at all fair. well on one hand i definetly agree that if there were way less foreingers here it would be way better for the remaining ones. for many many reasons. but the part about these dross thats the part where you can say that. while yes some of them are vermin just causing troubles. ###### the real vermin are just on overstay and dont even bother to go out. ###### ive meets tons of people on many year overstays. many many visas here in thiailand when you try to thing the right way are an incredible pain in the ass. and many dont qualify for things like work permits if not english teaching as the rules for what a foreinger can work at are only jobs that the thais feel they are qualified too. and then the what is it 2 million baht in the bank requirement per work permit outside of english teaching. you know if they made everything fair and simple i bet tons of peoople would get the proper visas. but they dont the thais are deleberately being jerks about it all. the thais just love to show power. they have never been colonised. i think the real reason for all these rule changes is they just want everyone to get the ###### out. they even did admit that why the whole reason why they changed the work permit rules what was it 5 times in 2 years was to make it harder for foreigner to work here period. not to create a fair system. the thais are so stupid that when australia issued a travel warning to thailand for terrroism what did the geniuses in thialand do but issue a travel warning for thais going to australia for fear of dangerous snakes, loose crododile and wild kangeroos.