Israeli forces kill 16 Palestinians in Gaza border protests - Gaza medics

[simple1]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Each and every ceasefire and de-facto agreement between Israel and the Hamas (usually mediated by Egypt), includes a bit about an exclusion zone along the fence. Width of the zone varied and varies, but it is hardly a secret and it is not as if Gaza residents are not well aware of it. This was even referenced by the organizers of the protest.

 

There was a bomb attached to the fence about a couple of weeks ago, possibly planted there during another instance of protests. I think two IDF officers injured. Suicide bombing requires proximity to would be victims, so more of a check point sort of thing. That said, if the fence was breached, a whole lot could happen.

 

I read that IDF did warn protestors, as well as Hamas, not to get within x meters of the fence which I guess is actually Gaza Territory; are the Israeli declared exclusion zones in Gaza valid under international law?

 

IDF has claimed some of those killed were HAMAS members, two of whom had opened fire on IDF forces - fair enough, but not civilians, nor the huge number of injured. I assume you are thinking the level of casualties is not a good look for the Israelis?

[ezzra]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

I have yet to see a media report addressing the killings and huge level of gunshot injuries (now reported at 773) referencing "No Man's Land". As far as I'm aware no mention of suicide bombers ever attacking border fences, nor that those injured or killed had entered Israeli territory. Am I incorrect?

According to Israel's publications 10 of the dead are Hamas opperatores, i.e. terrorists, planning an infiltration of the border fence,

according to Hamas, all the 16 dead were innocent parsley farmers... 

Edited April 1, 2018 by ezzra

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, ezzra said:

According to Israel's publications 10 of the dead are Hamas opperatores, i.e. terrorists, planning an infiltration of the border fence,

according to Hamas, all the 16 dead were innocent parsley farmers... 

So far seventeen killed. If your number is correct that would leave seven murdered civilians. To sneer about the killing of civilians is unfortunate.

[dexterm]

24 minutes ago, ezzra said:

According to Israel's publications 10 of the dead are Hamas opperatores, i.e. terrorists, planning an infiltration of the border fence,

according to Hamas, all the 16 dead were innocent parsley farmers... 

Unsourced so worthless fake news.

[Thorgal]

I read that IDF did warn protestors, as well as Hamas, not to get within x meters of the fence which I guess is actually Gaza Territory; are the Israeli declared exclusion zones in Gaza valid under international law?
 
IDF has claimed some of those killed were HAMAS members, two of whom had opened fire on IDF forces - fair enough, but not civilians, nor the huge number of injured. I assume you are thinking the level of casualties is not a good look for the Israelis?

IDF tanks and snipers came first on Palestinian territory in Gaza just before the ‘Land Day’ demonstrations.

Some people here have it difficult to understand the IDF provocation and the presence of the military wing of Hamas during the demonstrations.

Both IDF and Hamas will claim self defense...while this happened on Palestinian territory...

Entering a sovereign country with a foreign army is an act of war. Shooting civilians and unarmed soldiers in a demonstration is also an act of war.

Israeli press/Army/Government tries to sell the whole event as an outbreak of Palestinian people (read incursion) into Israeli ‘sovereign’ territory. Which is false.




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[dexterm]

48 minutes ago, simple1 said:

I read that IDF did warn protestors, as well as Hamas, not to get within x meters of the fence which I guess is actually Gaza Territory; are the Israeli declared exclusion zones in Gaza valid under international law?

 

IDF has claimed some of those killed were HAMAS members, two of whom had opened fire on IDF forces - fair enough, but not civilians, nor the huge number of injured. I assume you are thinking the level of casualties is not a good look for the Israelis?

I wonder if Israel will allow an "independent and transparent investigation" into its allegations as the UN has called for 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-chief-calls-for-independent-investigation-of-gaza-deaths/

 

On Israel's previous record of coverups and non cooperation with independent inquiries...no chance!

Edited April 1, 2018 by dexterm

[dexterm]

10 hours ago, Morch said:

 

I'm introducing....? Do you even pay attention to what you post? Here is the bit from the post I replied to, in case your memory failed:

 

 

So, rather, it was you going on about supposed past events, not me "introducing" them. And then you whine when it's pointed out you're twisting words, heh. That it is off topic is a fact....like most of your posts.

 

As pointed out previously, you embrace or reject UN resolutions according to whatever argument is pushed. The would be Palestinian State was part of the same UN resolution as Israel. You cannot accept one but not the other. That you go on about "peace and reconciliation" and yet spew so many posts denouncing Israel's very right to exist is hypocritical, at best. The land was not stolen, even if you whine about "thieves" to kingdom come.

 

A couple of other corrections to your standard issue drivel - the UN resolution handed Israel  a whole lot of land which was arid and sparsely populated or cultivated, that accounts for quite a bit of the percentage there. And as for the Palestinians currently controlling 0% of their land - that's one way of looking at it. Another would be to accept that Palestinian never had a land (as a nation). The Palestinians (and their Arab sponsors) rejected the UN resolution, and rejected peace with Israel for decades afterwards (and partly so to this day). In fact, the current Palestinian control is the most they've ever had. Try another spin, do.

 

So today's protest was about Palestinian lands. But just a few posts earlier your opined that a "detente" and some improvement in their living conditions would make such protest unnecessary. Which is it, then? Is this a principled stand? Or one conditioned on convenience? Or perhaps that whole "detente" waffle was just that - waffle. Coherence ain't a bad word, you know.

 

Your opinion is that Israel commits a war crime by not letting the Palestinians return. Most people do not realistically expect Israel to let millions of hostile Palestinians in, and frankly not even millions of non-hostile Palestinians.There are various ways to resolve such issues, not necessarily following your script or interpretation. You can make up whatever name you like for it - but it won't change reality. Nor would it be correct. Tossing about hyperbole and vehemence is nothing new when it comes to your posts.

 

I see you are in graywash sweep it under the carpet mode again. Classic generalisation fallacy.

 

 "Most people do not realistically expect Israel to let millions of hostile Palestinians in, and frankly not even millions of non-hostile Palestinians."

..the word "frankly" is a dead giveaway betraying your racial prejudice.

 

Why, by expelling the indigenous population, must Israel at all costs maintain dominant purity based solely on the color of one's religion? Why cannot Israel have a society of equals developed on the content of one's character? 

 

There have been many episodes in history, some quite recent, of "Never in my lifetime" .

Israeli, Palestinian, US and European leaders come and go, global awareness of the injustice increases, the Palestinian population continues to outgrow the Jewish.The problem is not going away and the truth will out.

Edited April 1, 2018 by dexterm

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

IDF tanks and snipers came first on Palestinian territory in Gaza just before the ‘Land Day’ demonstrations.
Some people here have it difficult to understand the IDF provocation and the presence of the military wing of Hamas during the demonstrations.

As far as I am aware , the IDF stayed on Israeli territory .

Could you give a link to show that Israeli tanks entered Gazian territory ?

[Thorgal]

As far as I am aware , the IDF stayed on Israeli territory .
Could you give a link to show that Israeli tanks entered Gazian territory ?

Quote from link:

“On 30 March 2018, the Palestinian Land Day, at least 16 people were killed when the Israeli army opened fire on a protest taking place on the Palestinian side of the Gaza Strip's border with Israel.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Land_Day_incidents


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[Morch]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

I read that IDF did warn protestors, as well as Hamas, not to get within x meters of the fence which I guess is actually Gaza Territory; are the Israeli declared exclusion zones in Gaza valid under international law?

 

IDF has claimed some of those killed were HAMAS members, two of whom had opened fire on IDF forces - fair enough, but not civilians, nor the huge number of injured. I assume you are thinking the level of casualties is not a good look for the Israelis?

 

Considering the Gaza Strip's entire legal definition and labeling is murky, applying "international law" can mean pretty much anything. Most times, when such post cease-fire arrangements were agreed upon (through Egypt's handy mediation), most parties and the international communities tended to accept them as the best workable option available.

 

I don't think anyone, not even them calling for international inquiries got a good answer or a clear idea as to dealing with such incidents.

 

The IDF cites 10 out of those killed being Hamas/Islamic Jihad operatives. The Hamas currently officially accepts 5 were (and going by previous instances, several more will be recognized later on). If these details and figures are correct, then in reference to those killed, and total participation, perhaps not that "evil". Or at least not as advertised by some.

 

The huge number of those injured by live fire is to be condemned. Doubt all of it was inevitable. And it certainly doesn't do Israel any favors on the international stage, so not particularly smart as well. That said, I don't know that there's a good way of dealing with such a situation. Meaning, that had the number of those injured been, say, a third of the current figure, it would have resulted in pretty much the same outrage. Avoiding some level of mass injuries and the resulting (and legitimate) criticism is, IMO, impossible.

 

Another point worth adding is that most pictures making the rounds are from a couple of flashpoints. Those earthen ramps do not exist everywhere. Some places it's open flatland with just the fence in the middle. Guess conditions and the level of threat varies.

[Morch]

49 minutes ago, simple1 said:

So far seventeen killed. If your number is correct that would leave seven murdered civilians. To sneer about the killing of civilians is unfortunate.

 

We'd have to disagree about the use of "murdered". And regardless of the  other poster tone and attitude, doubt most of the protestors were unaware of warnings, dangers, or how things will go down. Didn't stop some from bringing families and children along.

[Elfin]

6 hours ago, Judo Chop said:

Imagine if the people who care so much for the Palestinians demanded that the PLO and HAMAS built hospitals, schools, universities, public housing etc with all that aid money, rather than using it to build terror tunnels & pay terrorist stipends?

That would make all Palestinians better off but the name of the game is to demonize Israel. The Palestinians are merely pawns to their supporters.

Judo Chop, you may have noticed that Israel has twice in recent years bombed the s#@t out of hospitals, schools, universities and homes in the Gaza strip under the excuse that these institutions stockpile weapons. If they rebuilt them (that is if the Israeli blockade would allow the required building materials into Gaza to enable this), sometime in the near future, Israel again would find an excuse to have a live fire exercise to bomb the poop out of them again with munitions that are near their expiry date, and to give their miliatary a real life training exercise.

The Palestinians just want their lands and homes in the West Bank and within Israel given back to them with a right of return.

BDS

[Morch]

37 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

IDF tanks and snipers came first on Palestinian territory in Gaza just before the ‘Land Day’ demonstrations.

Some people here have it difficult to understand the IDF provocation and the presence of the military wing of Hamas during the demonstrations.

Both IDF and Hamas will claim self defense...while this happened on Palestinian territory...

Entering a sovereign country with a foreign army is an act of war. Shooting civilians and unarmed soldiers in a demonstration is also an act of war.

Israeli press/Army/Government tries to sell the whole event as an outbreak of Palestinian people (read incursion) into Israeli ‘sovereign’ territory. Which is false.




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Got to love them lame nonsense posts of yours, trying to saw inane misinformation. 

 

The IDF forces are positioned in Israel, not within the Gaza Strip. They did not enter the Gaza Strip, nor is the Gaza Strip exactly a "sovereign country". And there needs to be a central government in order for it to be a "proper" war. The IDF presence along the fence is not a "provocation" other than in your nonsense posts.

 

Israel is a sovereign country, and Palestinians crossing over unauthorized are violating this sovereignty. I don't think that there was a claim made about protestors succeeding in crossing the fence. But do go about "false", by all means...

 

 

[Morch]

42 minutes ago, dexterm said:

I wonder if Israel will allow an "independent and transparent investigation" into its allegations as the UN has called for 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-chief-calls-for-independent-investigation-of-gaza-deaths/

 

On Israel's previous record of coverups and non cooperation with independent inquiries...no chance!

 

Why would Israel accept such an investigation? And what would be the basis for one? Can't recall much of that with regard to  even worse instances all over the world, nevermind the ME.

[Thorgal]

 

Each and every ceasefire and de-facto agreement between Israel and the Hamas (usually mediated by Egypt), includes a bit about an exclusion zone along the fence. Width of the zone varied and varies, but it is hardly a secret and it is not as if Gaza residents are not well aware of it. This was even referenced by the organizers of the protest.

 

There was a bomb attached to the fence about a couple of weeks ago, possibly planted there during another instance of protests. I think two IDF officers injured. Suicide bombing requires proximity to would be victims, so more of a check point sort of thing. That said, if the fence was breached, a whole lot could happen.

 
 
 
 

The Gaza ‘no-mans-land’ is a 3km sovereign Palestinian strip/territory that has been imposed by the Israeli’s. There was never a Palestinian consensus, read deal to accept this reduction of 40% of the overall Gazian over-populated area.

Farmers are being killed randomly if they’re working on their fields in this prohibited zone. This happened recently with a Merkava shell...

Breaching of ‘the fence’ is impossible. Smart fences with automatic remote controlled machine guns and cameras are installed all along the Gazian border. Let’s not forget the satellite survey for any offshore/onshore infiltration. There are constantly 1000’s of IDF troops stationed at the border with multiple artillery batteries and multiple tank devisions. The Israeli marine is constantly patrolling any suspicious movement of the Palistinian people. Idem dito with drones from the land side.

Some even think that latest firework crackers (which have not been proven) at ‘the fence’ would ever result in any Palestinian incursion...and that there’s a real threat...


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[Morch]

39 minutes ago, dexterm said:

I see you are in graywash sweep it under the carpet mode again. Classic generalisation fallacy.

 

 "Most people do not realistically expect Israel to let millions of hostile Palestinians in, and frankly not even millions of non-hostile Palestinians."

..the word "frankly" is a dead giveaway betraying your racial prejudice.

 

Why, by expelling the indigenous population, must Israel at all costs maintain dominant purity based solely on the color of one's religion? Why cannot Israel have a society of equals developed on the content of one's character? 

 

There have been many episodes in history, some quite recent, of "Never in my lifetime" .

Israeli, Palestinian, US and European leaders come and go, global awareness of the injustice increases, the Palestinian population continues to outgrow the Jewish.The problem is not going away and the truth will out.

 

Talk about "sweeping under the carpet" - see you managed to ignore that you alleged I "introduced" this, whereas it was actually in reply to your post. And you're off to yet another nothing deflection....

 

Other than in your mind, how does "frankly" betray anything, let alone supposed "racial prejudice"? The meaning was quite simple, most people accept that a mass influx of millions of Palestinians means the end of Israel. Most people do not realistically expect Israel to accept such a move. There is nothing in this which related to supposed personal "racial prejudice". It doesn't imply people wholly support Israel, or see nothing wrong with its policies. It just means that most people do not expect Israel to commit national suicide in order to satisfy extreme political agendas such as yours.

 

Israel was set up as a homeland for the Jewish people. You wish to deny that, go ahead. You wish to claim such is unnecessary, go ahead. Your nonsense means less than  nothing. And as for the usual crapola about it becoming some sort of utopian society - have a look at how things are in the ME, have a look at Palestinian society and how it deals with its internal conflicts, then go on about your nonsense.

 

As you are well aware, I am not supportive of Israel's occupation, nor do I deny the Palestinian's national rights. But between this and your own all encompassing vilification, there's quite a gap.

 

 

[Morch]

45 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Quote from link:

“On 30 March 2018, the Palestinian Land Day, at least 16 people were killed when the Israeli army opened fire on a protest taking place on the Palestinian side of the Gaza Strip's border with Israel.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Land_Day_incidents


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Nothing in this says that Israeli troops were in the Gaza Strip.

[ezzra]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

Unsourced so worthless fake news.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-at-least-10-of-the-16-killed-at-gaza-border-were-members-of-terror-groups/

 

IDF: At least 10 of the 16 killed at Gaza border were members of terror groups

[Scott]

Troll posts removed.

[Morch]

25 minutes ago, Elfin said:

Judo Chop, you may have noticed that Israel has twice in recent years bombed the s#@t out of hospitals, schools, universities and homes in the Gaza strip under the excuse that these institutions stockpile weapons. If they rebuilt them (that is if the Israeli blockade would allow the required building materials into Gaza to enable this), sometime in the near future, Israel again would find an excuse to have a live fire exercise to bomb the poop out of them again with munitions that are near their expiry date, and to give their miliatary a real life training exercise.

The Palestinians just want their lands and homes in the West Bank and within Israel given back to them with a right of return.

BDS

 

You can call it an "excuse", whereas it was actually fact. Even UNRWA complained about using it's facilities for such purposes. You can go on ignoring Hamas actions all you like - won't make them go away, won't make responding to them an "excuse".

 

The Hamas doggedly refuses to allow oversight of construction materials brought in, and takes much of what does make it inside to its own purposes. You'll have to work hard explaining how there aren't construction materials in Gaza, while the Hamas manages to construct miles  of underground tunnels for its own use. Mind, none of these underground tunnels is used as public shelter and such.

 

The Palestinians, according to your nonsense, just want Israel gone. And somehow you expect Israel to accept that. More nonsense and more dishonesty - go on about how that BS movement you support is not against Israel's existence.

[ezzra]

As this " peaceful march " has several weeks to go, undoubtedly there will be more casualties to come, and a lot more accussiond and blames all around..and the hot 'debates' on TV will only intensify,

so save your breaths everybody for the days to come....

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by ezzra

[Thorgal]

 
Nothing in this says that Israeli troops were in the Gaza Strip.

Please check out this picture here below. You can see the IDF soldiers on the 3 km strip. There’s no ‘fence’ between the IDF soldiers and the protesters...



You’ve tried to dismiss to use the term of ‘murder’ even if the casualties were more Palestinian civilians than those 5 Hamas militants.

You’ve tried to displace the aggressors from the real crime scene.

You’ve changed the motive from a peaceful demonstration to an attempt to incursion of Palestinian Hamas into Israeli territory...

You’ve dismissed any form of Israeli provocation.




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[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Thorgal said:

Quote from link:
“On 30 March 2018, the Palestinian Land Day, at least 16 people were killed when the Israeli army opened fire on a protest taking place on the Palestinian side of the Gaza Strip's border with Israel.”

 

Yes, but you claimed that Israeli tanks went onto Palestinian territory , which they didnt do 

[sanemax]

https://www.alqassam.net/arabic/

 

   A requested link 

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Please check out this picture here below. You can see the IDF soldiers on the 3 km strip. There’s no ‘fence’ between the IDF soldiers and the protesters...

 

There are no Israeli soldiers in your photo .

There are Israeli solders here in my photo , on the otherside of the fence

 

 

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Please check out this picture here below. You can see the IDF soldiers on the 3 km strip. There’s no ‘fence’ between the IDF soldiers and the protesters...



You’ve tried to dismiss to use the term of ‘murder’ even if the casualties were more Palestinian civilians than those 5 Hamas militants.

You’ve tried to displace the aggressors from the real crime scene.

You’ve changed the motive from a peaceful demonstration to an attempt to incursion of Palestinian Hamas into Israeli territory...

You’ve dismissed any form of Israeli provocation.




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The pic does not actually show Israeli troops within the Gaza Strip.

There is a fence.

I do not accept any killing is "murder", certainly not on the force of your pseudo-legal claims.

I have not "displaced" anyone from anywhere, no idea what you're on about.

As for motives related to the protests - may want to consult Hamas leadership statement and speeches at the outset.

I dismissed the claim that Israeli troops presence along the fence is a provocation, not "any form" of Israeli action.

 

Stop making up things, stop posting outright lies.

[ezzra]

21 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Please check out this picture here below. You can see the IDF soldiers on the 3 km strip. There’s no ‘fence’ between the IDF soldiers and the protesters...



You’ve tried to dismiss to use the term of ‘murder’ even if the casualties were more Palestinian civilians than those 5 Hamas militants.

You’ve tried to displace the aggressors from the real crime scene.

You’ve changed the motive from a peaceful demonstration to an attempt to incursion of Palestinian Hamas into Israeli territory...

You’ve dismissed any form of Israeli provocation.




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We get it that blind hatred and loathing distort the vision of people who are just too busy making a point, even if their knowledge and informations is grossly inaccurate and wrong...

Just to state the facts, there is a 45 km border fence between Israel's territory and the gaza stip,

with 300 meters or no go zone on the palestinian side,

once you try to cross that fence, you'll be warn and shot it, the rest is up to the people who ignore and disregards those conditions....

Edited April 1, 2018 by ezzra

[Morch]

45 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

The Gaza ‘no-mans-land’ is a 3km sovereign Palestinian strip/territory that has been imposed by the Israeli’s. There was never a Palestinian consensus, read deal to accept this reduction of 40% of the overall Gazian over-populated area.

Farmers are being killed randomly if they’re working on their fields in this prohibited zone. This happened recently with a Merkava shell...

Breaching of ‘the fence’ is impossible. Smart fences with automatic remote controlled machine guns and cameras are installed all along the Gazian border. Let’s not forget the satellite survey for any offshore/onshore infiltration. There are constantly 1000’s of IDF troops stationed at the border with multiple artillery batteries and multiple tank devisions. The Israeli marine is constantly patrolling any suspicious movement of the Palistinian people. Idem dito with drones from the land side.

Some even think that latest firework crackers (which have not been proven) at ‘the fence’ would ever result in any Palestinian incursion...and that there’s a real threat...


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More of your rubbish....It's enough even to have a look in Google maps (satellite mode), and see your claims are false. Not even the first time you tried this misleading BS.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip#Buffer_Zone

 

And "Palestinian consensus" - are you for real? So, quite alright for Hamas to make decision which you support, without such "consensus", then? Or perhaps you'd like some education about the lack of "consensus" between the PA the Hamas? If that's your argument, why go on about peace agreements and whatnot? The fact stands that Hamas is in control  of the Gaza Strip and that it agreed to terms following rounds of fighting. You don't like it - take it up with Hamas leadership.

 

Gazan Farmers are nowadays allowed much nearer to the fence than in previous years, although not at night time. The incident you refer to was at night time, and allow me not to take your assertion that it was just a farmer at face value.

 

Breaching the fence is certainly possible. Happened a few times just prior to protests:

 

Two Palestinians breach Gaza security fence in fourth incident in a week

https://www.timesofisrael.com/two-palestinians-breach-gaza-security-fence-in-fourth-incident-in-a-week/

 

There aren't thousands of Israeli troops constantly patrolling the border. and the rest of your hyperbole is nice, but doesn't stand up to reality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[geriatrickid]

Deleted post edited out*

This is an outright lie and it is why tempers run hot on the  forum. Here are the facts;

 

1. Yes there is a buffer zone. This is due to the  frequent armed attacks and the digging of tunnels from Gaza into Israel from which to launch terrorist attacks. Maintaining the  buffer zone also forces the missile and rocket launches farther from the border.  There would be no need for a buffer zone if Hamas respected the border and stopped attacking Israel from Gaza. You neglect to mention that Israelis are forced to keep back from the border as well as they are subject to attack including sniper attacks. Israelis who wish to tend to their fields must do so from the confines of armoured tractors

 

2. The buffer zone had been 150m at the start of the second war  (aka intifadah) declared against Israel.

 

3. Because of the multiple  attacks and tunnel building between 2005 and 2010, Israel was forced to extend the buffer zone to 300m.

 

4. Yes, Israel can and will  undertake defensive measures against Hamas/Jihadist terrorists outside the 300m  buffer zone. It is Israel's legal and moral right to defend against such attacks.

 

If you don't want a buffer zone, volunteer to keep the peace on the  Gaza-Israel border. Go there and share your words of wisdom. Counsel your friends that sending children to be used as PR tools is  futile and a waste. There would be no need for a buffer zone if Hamas did not sanction violent terror attacks on Israel from the border. 

 

[dexterm]

49 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Talk about "sweeping under the carpet" - see you managed to ignore that you alleged I "introduced" this, whereas it was actually in reply to your post. And you're off to yet another nothing deflection....

 

Other than in your mind, how does "frankly" betray anything, let alone supposed "racial prejudice"? The meaning was quite simple, most people accept that a mass influx of millions of Palestinians means the end of Israel. Most people do not realistically expect Israel to accept such a move. There is nothing in this which related to supposed personal "racial prejudice". It doesn't imply people wholly support Israel, or see nothing wrong with its policies. It just means that most people do not expect Israel to commit national suicide in order to satisfy extreme political agendas such as yours.

 

Israel was set up as a homeland for the Jewish people. You wish to deny that, go ahead. You wish to claim such is unnecessary, go ahead. Your nonsense means less than  nothing. And as for the usual crapola about it becoming some sort of utopian society - have a look at how things are in the ME, have a look at Palestinian society and how it deals with its internal conflicts, then go on about your nonsense.

 

As you are well aware, I am not supportive of Israel's occupation, nor do I deny the Palestinian's national rights. But between this and your own all encompassing vilification, there's quite a gap.

 

 

I responding to another poster who was trying to score pathetically cheap points to justify Israel's current barbaric actions by extolling the wonders of the Israeli economy...off topic of course. So I replied very briefly saying yes the economy is wonderful because they did it by ethnically cleansing Palestinians and stealing their land[on topic..that's what the OP demonstrations relate to]. I mentioned it in a very vague way (no dates), because I know your track record of getting posts deleted. 

 

You saw this as a way of rehashing in detail the old canard mythology surrounding the 47-48 Nakba. So I responded to correct your nonsense.

 

"Frankly" roughly means "to be honest with you". You are saying to be honest with you there is no room for Palestinians whatever their merits as citizens simply because they are not Jews ...that's racism. i.e. you approve Israel's immigration policy which grants citizenship solely on the basis of a person's religion and tries its darnedest to keep its citizenship ranks pure by excluding any other race or religion, such as Palestinians demonstrating today to return to their confiscated homes.

 

>>Israel was set up as a homeland for the Jewish people. You wish to deny that, go ahead. You wish to claim such is unnecessary, go ahead. 
..set up at the expense of the resident indigenous Palestinian population who were ethnically cleansed to create a phony Jewish majority. A homeland for Jewish people is not necessary in the 21st Century..in fact it's more of a liability to world Jewry who are doing quite nicely where they are thank you, practising their religion without discrimination and voting with their feet not to migrate to Israel. On the contrary Israel's barbaric behavior such as today's becomes a source of anti Semitism directed at world Jewry, when Netanyahu proclaims Israel belongs solely to the world's Jews. Increasing numbers of fair minded Jews worldwide are saying "Please ..not in my name."