Israeli forces kill 16 Palestinians in Gaza border protests - Gaza medics

[midas]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

The bottom line is this, Israel is not going anywhere, and if it means another

war or two so be it, the palestinians have millions of people to send to

be a cannon fodder this is their thing, while Arab Israelis are prosperous

and flourishing living in Israel, those in Gaza and other places, still live i

and herding goats

ackward squalids mud huts herding goats and living on the world's

handouts.....

Yes and they won't even allow world handouts because Israel even attacked on innocent   flotilla of boats carrying humanitarian aid

[Jingthing]

The entire premise of the "Land Day" protests is not going to ever be helpful to move towards a peaceful solution. Israel is not going to allow Palestinian return. Israel already includes about 20 percent Arab citizens. The main point of Israel is to be the one tiny nation where Jewish people are the majority. Israel will never give that up. You'd have to make them flee/kill them all to make that happen which, no surprise, Hamas knows too and wants to do. There are over FIFTY Muslim majority nations. For Jewish people there is the one, and it's tiny, unless you count Boca.

 

The Palestinians need much better LEADERSHIP. A Palestinian state could have been peaceful and prosperous decades ago if they had.

 

No, I am not only blaming the Palestinian side of course. But in the context of this topic and pushing for this ridiculous unproductive protest goal, for this -- YES.  

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

 

Don’t see why any protest could be controlled without violence. Except if you need a PR ‘stunt’ in domestic political affairs.

Participation of Netanyahu back in Paris for the CharlieHebdo affair was also a PR stunt. You don’t control a demonstration and public opinion with snipers firing at u armed protesters.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

What you "don't see" is of little relevance considering your predisposed positions - there was an example earlier in the topic of riots in the US resulting in mass casualties, most neighboring countries to Israel had far worse instances of such in their histories, and the Palestinians themselves are not known for sorting their difference without bloody violence.

 

Other than nonsense and generalizations, you have not explained just how things could have been handled better. That's not an endorsement of actions taken, more an acknowledgement that it's more complex than posters imply.

 

I've no idea what you want with Netanyahu's PR efforts, or how these are material to the OP. Try to focus.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, midas said:

Yes and they won't even allow world handouts because Israel even attacked on innocent   flotilla of boats carrying humanitarian aid

You're implying that no aid is allowed in. That's a big dirty lie and you know it. 

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, midas said:

Yes and they won't even allow world handouts because Israel even attacked on innocent   flotilla of boats carrying humanitarian aid

 

Utter rubbish.

 

The Flotilla was a PR effort, not a significant aid project. There are hundreds and thousands of trucks carrying supplies and goods entering the Gaza Strip on a daily basis. Certain donor countries spend hundreds of millions - and a whole lot of it ended up in Hamas projects (tunnels, rockets,etc). The party refusing oversight of goods entering the Gaza Strip is the Hamas.

[midas]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're implying that no aid is allowed in. That's a big dirty lie and you know it. 

The Washington post didn't seem to imply it was a lie?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/07/01/did-the-flotilla-to-gaza-have-humanitarian-aid-aboard-or-not/?utm_term=.511c28af77fb

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, midas said:

The Washington post didn't seem to imply it was a lie?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/07/01/did-the-flotilla-to-gaza-have-humanitarian-aid-aboard-or-not/?utm_term=.511c28af77fb

 

The article says pretty much the opposite than what you argue. Nice fail there.

[midas]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Anti certain Israeli politics is not the same as anti-semites.

 

I do find it sad that this card is played without merit, and without any comment on the actual topic.

yes !!

 

 

 

[dexterm]

44 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You don't actually give a hoot about how Israelis live. Your whole body of posting is aimed at making their country irrelevant.

 

There is no "simple formula" other than in your propaganda posts. Even what you allude to (the Arab/Saudi Initiative) is in no way "simple". And, of course, this wasn't actually accepted by the Palestinians (I know - you ignore Hamas when its convenient, but all the same - such is reality). Obviously, nothing out of your regarding Palestinian choosing violence over and over again, Palestinian and Arab rejectionism - or basically anything which might paint your side of choice in a less than positive light. Let me reverse this for you - Palestinians can choose to continue living under occupations, under blockade, and keep a having their rights and dreams denied - or they could choose another path. See? Works both ways.

 

You keep going on and on about world opinion, somehow doesn't seem to work out quite as you claim. And you've been at it for years, on this forum alone. When this time-is-on-the-Palestinian-side angle is used up, you switch to warning of sinister calamities etc. Same old...

 

And yet, nothing concrete on topic - just the usual partisan political propaganda....

That's twice now in this thread you have presumed to know what I think. Please don't. I have met many Israelis in my travels including within Israel who are fine decent people. I want them and Palestinians to enjoy the same safe peaceful happy lifestyle that I have.

 

Yes, it is as simple as that as a basis for the finer points of negotiations...the 3 cornerstone points I mentioned above for a lasting peace, and for Israel to have a mainly Jewish state and still remain a democracy. Israel has never tried it. Always more land grabs, no to a divided Jerusalem, no to return/compensation for those refugees who want it. Same compensation deal for ethnically cleansed Jews too btw.

 

Of course that can't happen overnight and security concerns must be addressed, but when you have peace, full international recognition and commerce, and fully employed populations, minds tend to drift away from violent confrontations. People focus on the core issues in their lives.

 

I have travelled extensively and the world over all people want is safety, freedom, a job, good health, and a better future for their children.

 

Israel's actions in the OP is just digging a deeper hole of bitterness and animosity.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, dexterm said:

and for Israel to have a mainly Jewish state and still remain a democracy. Israel has never tried it

Israel is currently a mainly Jewish state and they have tried and do currently have democracy , been that way for 70 odd years .

[Elfin]

15 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Israel is currently a mainly Jewish state and they have tried and do currently have democracy , been that way for 70 odd years .

Israel is a democracy in name only. Is there freedom of speech in Israel now?

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, Elfin said:

Israel is a democracy in name only. Is there freedom of speech in Israel now?

Nope, one person, one vote . Democracy .

There is freedom of speech in Israel , you can say whatever you want .

Although asking for a bacon sandwich is rather frowned upon

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

29 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Nope, one person, one vote . Democracy .

There is freedom of speech in Israel , you can say whatever you want .

Although asking for a bacon sandwich is rather frowned upon

 

 

 

Not necessarily.

Israel is not a Jewish theocracy though there are some theocratic influences. 

It was established as a homeland for the Jewish PEOPLE, secular and religious.

Jewish is both a religion and a people, different than other major religions.

 

Quote

“When I would come back from the army on the weekends, every Saturday my mother would make bacon and eggs.”

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/roads/2015/06/pork_in_israel_how_russian_immigrants_and_hipster_foodies_are_challenging.html

 

Of course, Israel for it's CITIZENS is democracy. Not a perfect one, but that's rare in any democracy. Israel also enjoys free speech for the most part. That doesn't mean that some unpopular speech won't have consequences though. A utopia it's not, I don't think anyone is selling that idea.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Jingthing

[dexterm]

32 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Israel is currently a mainly Jewish state and they have tried and do currently have democracy , been that way for 70 odd years .

Take a look at the map. It's the West Bank I am talking about..a 50 year plus illegal occupation that was only meant to be temporary. Instead Israel against international law has poured in 600,000 Jewish migrants who live in Jewish only settlements on land confiscated from Palestinian owners. Two separate systems there  ...laws, roads, checkpoints, health, education, human and civil rights. Total control of Palestinian lives without a vote...that's not democracy, it's apartheid.

 

Israel occupies and controls the lives of Palestinians in Gaza in a different way...blockade.

 

All these Palestinians have been herded out of areas needed for people who have just stepped off an El Al jet from NYC and have never set eyes on the place before but get preferential treatment on the basis solely of their religion. That's not democracy.

 

That's what the OP protest is all about.

[dexterm]

11 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Nope, one person, one vote . Democracy .

There is freedom of speech in Israel , you can say whatever you want .

Although asking for a bacon sandwich is rather frowned upon

 

 

 

>>you can say whatever you want .

..not true. There are many laws with hefty penalties which control what Israelis can and cannot say about the state of Israel through the social media and groups you belong to.  Will gladly discuss them in a more appropriate thread.

[sanemax]

Just now, dexterm said:

Take a look at the map. It's the West Bank I am talking about..a 50 year plus illegal occupation that was only meant to be temporary. Instead Israel against international law has poured in 600,000 Jewish migrants who live in Jewish only settlements on land confiscated from Palestinian owners. Two separate systems there  ...laws, roads, checkpoints, health, education, human and civil rights. Total control of Palestinian lives without a vote...that's not democracy, it's apartheid.

Israel occupies and controls the lives of Palestinians in Gaza in a different way...blockade.

All these Palestinians have been herded out of areas needed for people who have just stepped off an El Al jet from NYC and have never set eyes on the place before but get preferential treatment on the basis solely of their religion. That's not democracy.

That's what the OP protest is all about.

I did take a look at the map and the protests were in Gaza and NOT the West bank.

   The Gazians are not under occupation , and they live in Gaza "Israeli free" , there are no Israelis living in Gaza .

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>>you can say whatever you want .

..not true. There are many laws with hefty penalties which control what Israelis can and cannot say about the state of Israel through the social media and groups you belong to.  Will gladly discuss them in a more appropriate thread.

Here is fine :

    What are the things that Israelis cannot say on social media ?

[dexterm]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

I did take a look at the map and the protests were in Gaza and NOT the West bank.

   The Gazians are not under occupation , and they live in Gaza "Israeli free" , there are no Israelis living in Gaza .

>> and they live in Gaza "Israeli free"

 

Wish you would tell that to those psychopaths in IDF uniforms selecting their targets for murder.

 

70% of Gazans ..themselves, their parents or their grandparents once lived in Israel, before they were ethnically cleansed to make way for a purer state. Wonder if 70% of the the snipers can say the same thing about their relatives.

[JOC]

Think outside the box......

Move Israel to the USA....Make it the 51th state...

Would save US $ 38 billion yearly......Would lower the Israeli defense spending from $ 15 billion to zero.

Offer all Israeli Jews a free move and free settlement in the new state....It would cost a lot of money, but is doable...

Those who choose to stay(in the present Israel) will become Palestinian citizens and can keep their properties, land etc. ...

Those who choose to leave will become American citizens and will be compensated for what they leave behind...

The new Israel will have no security concerns.....The Palestinians can return to their land...

Win/win...

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, JOC said:

...

Win/win...

Stupid/stupid more like ...

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Wish you would tell that to those psychopaths in IDF uniforms selecting their targets for murder.

The IDF are on the Israeli side of the border , they are not in Gaza

[dexterm]

7 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The IDF are on the Israeli side of the border , they are not in Gaza

but their bullets, drones, artillery shells, and fighter planes aren't.

Edited March 31, 2018 by dexterm

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, dexterm said:

"resist occupation"

 

Israelis are allowed to say "resist occupation " on social media 

[Ron19]

Off topic posts have been removed.

[dexterm]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

America is Red Indian land .

Caucasian Americans need to get themselves back to their European homeland , rather than adding to the genocide that they carried out on Red Indians

USA along with several other colonialist countries have acknowledged and tried to compensate for the cruelty of their ancestors' ethnic cleansing. Israel is still in a state of denial.

[dexterm]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Israelis are allowed to say "resist occupation " on social media 

Google is your friend.

The Poem for Which Dareen Tatour’s Under House Arrest: ‘Resist, My People, Resist Them’

 

You are just trolling when you ask a question, get an answer, then ignore it.

[sanemax]

Just now, dexterm said:

Google is your friend.

The Poem for Which Dareen Tatour’s Under House Arrest: ‘Resist, My People, Resist Them’

You are just trolling when you ask a question, get an answer, then ignore it.

OK, I was just asking you to back up what you said 

You gave me an incorrect example and I asked you again

And you then accuse me of "trolling" , when you cannot back up what you say.

I shall not be party to your Israeli Jew hatred .

Discussion over .

[simple1]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

<snip>

   The Gazians are not under occupation , and they live in Gaza "Israeli free". 

Questionable. There are countless versions of who did what, when, outcomes and so on. At the URL below is yet another set of viewpoints, but appears to make valid points.

 

https://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip

 

I have watched the recent news, of course not coverage of all incidents....yet there is Israeli fire at civilians who are well clear of the fencing. IDF appear to be well protected behind earthworks etc. Personally it does appear the Israeli response was OTT with the number of deaths and gunshot injuries.

 

I have no idea how the situation can be resolved by pragmatic compromises by all parties. The Trump Administration prior boasts of mediating successful resolution appear to be dead in the water.

 

 

[Judo Chop]

9 hours ago, JOC said:

16 dead and at least 400 wounded.....

Only the brave Israeli Army would use live ammunition against unarmed civilians

And as usual they will act with impunity......No doubt the coming investigation will show....they were provoked....

And of course the Jewish lobby here will soon come around trying to justify their actions....

Shame on you Israel....!!

"Unarmed" "act with impunity" "Shame on Israel"

WOW. Are you from the Palestinian lobby? It sounds like you're reading from their playbook. Were you there to personally witness? What basis do you make the claim about unarmed civilians when the article photo clearly shows an armed Palestinian?

 

[geriatrickid]

22 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

I have watched the recent news, of course not coverage of all incidents....yet there is Israeli fire at civilians who are well clear of the fencing. IDF appear to be well protected behind earthworks etc. Personally it does appear the Israeli response was OTT with the number of deaths and gunshot injuries.

 

May I direct your attention to the past history of such attacks: the attackers have a strong likelihood of going kaboom. It's why the Israeli border crossings are  constructed as they are. In Syria and Iraq it is a regular occurrence  to have suicide bombers.  remember that the Israeli fence is constructed on Israeli territory. The attackers were in the no man's land and on Israeli  territory when the defensive measures were employed.

 

Something is afoot here and it has nothing  to do with Israel in particular. I suspect that the Iranians are trying to stir up some trouble to distract the arabs from getting too close to Israel. The KSA, UAE and others under the auspices of Egypt have been discussing an Iranian  solution and it may involve having Israel do the dirty work.