Partner problems, a family crisis, 5.5 years on...what happened next.

[nextmove]

Five and a half years ago I asked others on Thaivisa for their opinions and advice  about a family crisis I had been thrown into totally out of the blue.

Here is a link to the archive :-

 

In reply I received mostly constructive and supportive advice both here on the forum and also by PM. Despite a few inevitable ''bashers'' that decided "I must be involved" or conspiracy theories that this was somehow  part of a greater family scam this proved to be a good place to start on what was to become a long and stressful journey. The advice and support I received back then was and still is very much appreciated to this day. So thank you to all of you that helped in the early days..you know who you are !

Having taken a short 5 and half year vacation from Thaivisa I recently started reading again and felt compelled to write this in the hope that the end to my story might possibly be of some help to others that might be faced by similar circumstances in the future.

 

So here is what happen next.

 

Everybody from Thaivisa to my family and friends was telling me NOT to go back with my daughter to Thailand due to the unknown with the Thai authorities and with any aggrieved parties seeing the Falang as their "golden egg".  So what did I do...I went back. I was faced with a huge dilemma you see, play it safe and stay in England or never ever go back to Thailand again '' in case something bad happens"

 

Ultimately it was my conviction due to no wrong doing being done on my part that gave me the faith that things must and would turn out ok. The thought that my daughter would possibly never be able to visit her mum in Thailand until she was an adult was also something that I was not prepared to accept . Basically if I did not go back to Thailand then it would it eat at me every day from that day forward. In the end "not going" was not an option.

 

Anyway we duly  landed safely at Swampy only for an announcement to be made that nobody was to move from the plane. We were then told that everyone had to present their passports to the authorities at the gate before proceeding on to immigration. They were obviously looking for someone and that was the longest few minutes of my life but in the end we showed our passports to some uniformed personal then again when we proceeded through immigration who let us through without a blink of the eye. We had made a start , at least we could move freely between the UK and Thailand without worries and that was a huge hurdle out of the way.

What I eventually learned about my partners charge was as follows. Prior to meeting my partner she had been somewhat of a hero in her local village because she had successfully got many of them jobs working as cooks/waiters in the restaurant trade in Tel Aviv, Israel. My partner had originally got work there and then turned entrepreneur earning commission when she found with the help of her bosses or her bosses friends sponsorship she was able to get many others up to 5 years work . A lot of money was sent back to her village making some families comparatively wealthy by local standards.  My partner used to joke that her village had become know as the "little Tel Aviv of Isaan".

 

Fast forward . Following 5 years in Israel my partner to be meets me and gets a long term visa for the UK. Most workers are now also back from Israel and suddenly the miracle worker,that is  my partner, has landed the rights to visit the UK for up to 6 months every year. With the naivety that is Isaan and much of Thailand they decide what has happened in Israel can happen in the UK. I remember the number of calls spiraling once the locals got news of her newly found UK connection. Was I worried about anything at the time? Well when we were in England I remember being curious and a little concerned on occasions. On one such occasion during a farm holiiday in Cornwall I told my partner not to do anything silly that would jeopardise our future in England . ...England was not Israel and her friends from her village had a zero chance of getting any unskilled work. She would laugh and her reply was always, " this is Thai people Nextmove ,they are very nosy and always want to know where you are and what you are doing, do you think I am stupid, of course I wont do anything silly" . Now like many of us I don't speak Thai and every conversation on her phone was in Thai with plenty of laughter thrown in. As we know Thai women like most women love to talk especially when they are in the enviable position by Thai standards of holidaying in the UK. I am a little bit concerned but decide maybe I am over reacting and what choice do I have anyway but to take her on her word. We return to Thailand and things quiet down and any concerns are soon forgotten over Somtam and Singha.

 

In the end I should have been concerned. Now I don't know the whole extent of my partners involvement in all of this and probably never will but this is her take. She has told me that an "Aunty" ( not blood related but  a very close friend and someone my partner had been extremely close with since a young girl) had suggested that people had been willing to pay "small money" just for my partner to "look for work" with no strings attached. My partners mother would then receive some money from this Aunty(the collecter) in connection with this. My partner always maintains that she made it clear to all and sundry that work was extremely unlikely to happen and says that other people just wanted tips on how to get a UK visa and were willing to make a small payment for this. Now accepting any money for such deeds is clearly wrong but this is Thailand and the one thing I have learned the most of all in this country is that the general Thai mindset is more unorthodox than I am widely used to. This is not an excuse for a wrong doing, as I have said wrong is clearly wrong, its just an observation of a certain narrow minded naivety that some in Thailand seem to possess. But perhaps I am being too kind.

 

Her mother did eventually receive money from the Aunty who appears to have been bank rolling the scam but unbeknown to my partner was taking far larger sums from numerous naive and gullible people and keeping the lions share for herself and her husband. It is important to note that the charges from five and half years ago were actually historical ,this scam was actually orchestrated and finished about 9 years ago when my daughter was around one . It really did take over 3 years for my partner to finally be pulled over at the airport. Her Mother had been arrested 6 months prior to this but I was to eventually learn that the Aunty has never been arrested and  to this day and is still on the run. From around the time of my daughters 1st birthday up until the time of her mothers arrest at the airport there were no further criminal acts and prior to this time my partner had no previous convictions.

 

So in short my partner had admitted to doing wrong but says she was just one part of a bigger cog the true extent of which she was not fully aware. Is she telling the whole truth ...maybe not but I really don't  know  , however the passionate anger she directed at this so called Aunty makes me think that at least some part of her story is true. Whether  true or not it really is immaterial since she had committed an act of fraud however big or small.Since my partner was the connection to the UK it was she more than anybody that people blamed for " not getting what they had paid for" and not the Aunty who was collecting the money locally.

 

My partner was held In Korat prison prior to her trial which took the best part of a year to be heard. I had paid for a lawyer who advised that the biggest thing going against her right now was that she had not replied to the allegations that the Thai police had sent to her Tabien Baan. They had asked her to come in on more than one occasion to give her side of the story regarding the complaints against her. The reason for this??...she had never read the letters ...on her return to Thailand after spending 5 years in Israel the silly girl had never updated her Tabien Baan so all police letters were going to her address of many years ago...which ironically was also  in Korat! If she had been able to give her side of the story then although still charged with fraud the charges may have taken into account the ''Aunty's" part and been mitigated somewhat.

 

On the lawyers suggestion that we keep "prices" real I agreed to compensate the alleged victims in the hope that since my partner held no previous convictions the judge would be lenient.There were about 7 or 8 complaints made against my partner all claiming various amounts of deception from about 10000 THB  right through to something absurd around 500,000 THB.  It was clear to me that most of the claims had been inflated in the hopes of getting more compensation. There were several court appearances where these people were required to attend but two did not because they were also wanted by the police for unrelated crimes. Eventually I had to pay a couple of thousand pounds or so ( the pound was much stronger then ...thankfully) in compensation and my partner got a one and half year suspended sentence and walked free ....straight back into the arms of the Korat police who had in the meantime received or been keeping back another 8 or so complaints...it was as if people were queuing up now they knew the ''stupid falang'' was paying compensation.The claims had become  even more absurd than the first batch. To be honest for the sake of my daughter a couple of thousand meant nothing to secure her mums freedom and without being psychic there really was no way of knowing what was in store for us...even the Lawyer had heard nothing about more complaints.

 

Following this my partner instructed me to not compensate these people any further as she was sure there would then be a fresh batch waiting for us as soon as she walked free.She accepted her wrong doing but insisted that many of these new claims were fabricated by chancers, she said she would take the sentence whatever the term and see it out . She eventually got handed out 7.5 years in total (6 years for the second group offence and an instant 1.5 years added for the breach of the suspended sentence which turned out to be impossible not to breach.

 

I have learnt that the law in Thailand is truly an ass,trying to get my head around it all over the years has been impossible,even the lawyer could not give me reliable information on occasions about what should be obvious like length of sentence handed out etc. In the West they group all the victims together under one general fraud ,you get one trial and you are sentenced accordingly whereas in Thailand if there are 30 victims you could in theory go to trial for every complaint  or group of complaints.It seems to me they can basically juggle the numbers any way they want to get the result they want. Telling your young daughter that her mummy is free only to have to tell her 24 hours later that she is not free is not an easy thing to do. I sent in a pleading clemency letter via the lawyer but heard no more so that was that. To be honest despite everything there was a sense of relief in that we finally had reached (or almost reached -see later) an end game.The Thai immigration worries were no more,the legal and financial side was over and the trial was over. 7.5 years was the worst case scenario with the hope at some stage of early release and having some certainty for the first time in a long time despite all the the bad news felt good.

 

Although now based in the UK with my daughter at school we travelled to Korat at least two times a year to visit her mum.We would visit on a Tuesday and Thursday in the blazing heat waiting for hours to spend just 10 minutes looking through a hazy glass screen and talking via a clapped out phone that on two occasions broke down!

The early visits were the toughest since nobody at the jail spoke a word of English and my Thai was as bad as it always was. Luckily on our very first visit we met a Falang who spoke fluent Thai and got things sorted. His girlfriend was also on a fraud charge and had received 21 years so I guess we were the lucky ones. Other women were inside for cutting down trees illegally,the striking thing is that on all of my visits there I never once saw a woman who I instinctively thought looked really evil or bad. Most of them looked like kind souls,maybe Naive or uneducated  or both,but seldom evil or dodgy in any way. After sending in some fresh fruit and veg from the prison shop we were then on are way back south till the next time. I left a fund with the lawyer so my partner could have a regular payment sent in each month so she could afford to buy fresh food and cook for herself rather than eating the prison slop.

 

Just over four and half years after my partner and my daughters mum was detained it was over as quick as it had all began. I had a call from her sister asking for money to compensate two final victims. Everything was a bit vague as it always seems to be in Thailand but apparently my partner had finally been released for good behaviour via the Kings pardon but the police were waiting yet again it seems.....yes patiently for all those years. I refused to pay anything and told her sister who is not short of a bob or two to do the honourable thing and address the matter for her siblings sake. Well she did do the right thing and the next day my daughter answered the phone to hear her mum tell her she was finally free . Such lovely news,especially for our daughter, but after all the years and the anticpation from the day before it felt strangely surreal to hear the news. I had not felt like this since the day my partner had been detained at the Bangkok airport over 4 years ago but that was bad surreal and this was good surreal...as different as chalk and cheese.

 

So fast forward again to today. I have not reunited with my partner...my choice. My daughter is now making a success of her life in England and is doing exceptionally well in her education. She has also excelled in Gymnastics and is currently an elite squad member with one of the most respected clubs in Great Britain.Her Mum is rightly proud of her daughter as of course I am too. Myself and daughter still visit her mum and are on very good terms but getting back together with us living so far apart is not practicable.

When you are forced into 5 years apart things will invariably change and even if we both wanted to be together getting a visa for the UK is now very unlikely. Her Mum is happy for her daughter to be with me because that is what my daughter wants, I have to thank her for that.

 

Although I was originally very angry and resented my partner for what she did by giving up her future and thus part of her daughters future for the sake of keeping her mother suitably financed I have to say that her years in jail also showed a much finer side of her. She never gave up hope or got too depressed and always kept an optimistic almost cheerful outlook. She actively studied in jail,learnt new life skills and even became the unofficial prison English teacher. Most of all I am convinced she has learnt her lesson,shows remorse  and regrets what she did however big or small her part. In some ways seeing her resilience and positive outlook gave me a new respect for her as she had been able to showcase possitive attributes which I had never noticed before. I'm far from sure I would have handled things so well in a Thai prison that I can only describe as a depressing hell hole.

 

 

 And as for the future? Well  when I reach retirement age I intend spending a lot more of my time in Thailand , maybe buy my beautiful daughter that Thai house that I HAVE ALWAYS WANTED and with a bit of luck see my days out living rent free on my cunning purchase ! :)

 

[Ahab]

Interesting story, but very long. Good luck.

[nextmove]

But not as long as the last five years...I assure you.

 

Besides interesting stories are generally on the longer side, you don't get many interesting one liners

[Rally123]

I couldn't be bother to read such a long opening post so I'll just wait for the movie to come out.   

[nextmove]

Good for you. Premiering in Patpong and will be on a Thai market stall near you very soon. 49 bht ++

[cornishcarlos]

I did bother to read it... Why not, it's Sunday...

 

I found it very interesting and a good account of what can happen to any of us, there are always things going on in the background !!

Glad you came out of it with a positive and not all negative. Good luck to all 3 of you for the future :)

[torrzent]

Can't be bothered to read as way too long.....can you get the original story and the latest post down to twitter length.  That is the attention span of most in these gadget oriented days.

[cornishcarlos]

4 minutes ago, torrzent said:

Can't be bothered to read as way too long.....can you get the original story and the latest post down to twitter length.  That is the attention span of most in these gadget oriented days.

 

If you can't be bothered to read it, don't comment, just move on to a story about Toad Boy and his watches.. :)

[torrzent]

12 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

If you can't be bothered to read it, don't comment, just move on to a story about Toad Boy and his watches.. :)

Up to me, not you! War and Peace would be an easier read.

[bwpage3]

We are very familiar with family, friends, etc from our village going to work in Israel. Many are there currently.

 

Previously, many went to Sweden to pick berries in the same kind of scam your wife was involved in. 

 

Not enough berries to pick to cover the cost of borrowing all the money to get there which was sharked at ridiculous rates.

 

Come back to Thailand and lose their land and/or house because they did not earn any money.

 

Always some Auntie pulling the scam.

 

40 people sleeping on the floor, getting almost nothing to eat the entire time.

 

One Thai man came back and lost his farm and committed suicide.

 

It is sad your wife was caught and arrested, however, either you do not want to tell the whole story or you are looking for sympathy for your wife?

 

Maybe you do know the whole story and know why she got sent to prison for so long and now much money and now many people were scammed.

 

These same types of foreign work scams have completely ruined innocent lives while the perpetrators run off with all their money, land, house etc.  

 

It was a kind gesture for you to pay off a few claims but I suspect is was the tip of the iceberg.

 

Isaan people were scammed out of millions of baht, not a couple thousand pounds.

 

Probably a good idea you moved on and gave your daughter an awesome chance to have a life.

 

 

 

 

[nextmove]

bwpage3

 

I have told the whole story as far as I am able to.From my side it is the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Why would I be looking for sympathy for my "wife" after what she has put myself and my daughter through? The only reason I did what I did was for my daughter. If no child had been involved I admit that after asserting the evidence I would have walked and never looked back. I always knew I would probably not forgive my wife and that is why I have chosen not to be reconciled in any shape or form other than to provide my innocent daughter with a Mother going forward.

 

I would also point out that "my two thousand Pounds" was not offered to the whole of Isaan but to the people I could only be reasonably expected to know about in connection with my "wife" at the time....as per the professional advice of my then Lawyer.The way you have presented your post you would think my former parther was responsible for scamming the entire population of Isaan.

 

Can you elaborate on what is going wrong for Thai people currently working in Israel please? I am curious since I still have missing pieces to the jigsaw.

 

Thank you.

[nextmove]

1 hour ago, cornishcarlos said:

I did bother to read it... Why not, it's Sunday...

 

I found it very interesting and a good account of what can happen to any of us, there are always things going on in the background !!

Glad you came out of it with a positive and not all negative. Good luck to all 3 of you for the future :)

Many thanks for your good wishes cornishcarlos

 

Believe me it's nice to receive a rational reasoned reply once in a while from someone who has taken the time to read ALL of my post in a most rational and reasoned state of mind.

 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

We are very familiar with family, friends, etc from our village going to work in Israel. Many are there currently.

 

Previously, many went to Sweden to pick berries in the same kind of scam your wife was involved in. 

 

Not enough berries to pick to cover the cost of borrowing all the money to get there which was sharked at ridiculous rates.

 

Come back to Thailand and lose their land and/or house because they did not earn any money.

 

Always some Auntie pulling the scam.

 

40 people sleeping on the floor, getting almost nothing to eat the entire time.

 

One Thai man came back and lost his farm and committed suicide.

 

It is sad your wife was caught and arrested, however, either you do not want to tell the whole story or you are looking for sympathy for your wife?

 

Maybe you do know the whole story and know why she got sent to prison for so long and now much money and now many people were scammed.

 

These same types of foreign work scams have completely ruined innocent lives while the perpetrators run off with all their money, land, house etc.  

 

It was a kind gesture for you to pay off a few claims but I suspect is was the tip of the iceberg.

 

Isaan people were scammed out of millions of baht, not a couple thousand pounds.

 

Probably a good idea you moved on and gave your daughter an awesome chance to have a life.

 

 

2 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

 

 

"... These same types of foreign work scams have completely ruined innocent lives while the perpetrators run off with all their money, land, house etc.  ..."

 

And there's often a headline and in 99% of the cases the scammers are known but never punished. TIT, sad.

 

 

[Ulic]

I read both the link and the current story. I guess many no longer have the attention

span or are too busy to read. In any case, there are no winners here. I feel sorry for everyone.

(Except Aunty) The scammed, a young mother, daughter, and of course yourself. The silver

lining is the opportunity your daughter has embraced. (Her education)

I have only one piece of advice and it has nothing to do with your story. 

Get your daughter out of her elite level gymnastics program. It is a terrible sport full of

abuse and most of the athletes have eating disorders. Unfortunately, that is what it takes to be

successful in that sport. Best of luck and happy times going forward.

[samsensam]

 

bit of a confusing post and to be honest i gave up reading after the first few paragraphs... i get the gist that your wife was/is involved in scamming innocent people who probably cant/couldn't afford to lose the money. she sounds like a real catch.

[krabi local]

As cornishcarlos says makes an interesting read for a Sunday morning.

By not learning Thai we open ourselves to all sorts of problems that can occur in the background.

Good that your daughter is happy with a positive future.

[zyphodb]

Thanks for that interesting, if sad story, a warning for all of us living here in a culture where lieing seems to be socially acceptable as long as you gain money or save face from it. A point well worth remembering for us from cultures where this isn't the case.....

[nextmove]

42 minutes ago, Ulic said:

I read both the link and the current story. I guess many no longer have the attention

span or are too busy to read. In any case, there are no winners here. I feel sorry for everyone.

(Except Aunty) The scammed, a young mother, daughter, and of course yourself. The silver

lining is the opportunity your daughter has embraced. (Her education)

I have only one piece of advice and it has nothing to do with your story. 

Get your daughter out of her elite level gymnastics program. It is a terrible sport full of

abuse and most of the athletes have eating disorders. Unfortunately, that is what it takes to be

successful in that sport. Best of luck and happy times going forward.

Thanks for your kind words Ulic. Regarding the gymnastics...is this your personal experience from Canada or the US?

If you take a look at most GB gymnasts these days they are most certainly what you would describe as the  "fuller figure"...another way to describe them would be "chunky". Being half Thai my daughter is on the slim side and is what I would describe as a "fat form" of her Thai grandfather who is built like a stick insect. The coaches at my daughters gym are encouraging her to eat big steaks and pasta every day in order to gain weight to improve performance and I am 100 per cent with them. She has never been a great eater but as she grows older and exercises  more things are improving. Historically  I understand  concerns have been raised about the welfare of young gymnasts around the world and also in recent times but I have to say I am not seeing anything that concerns me in my area. I continiue to monitor the situation closely but at this point in time my daughter lives for her gymnastics and has never been happier.

[geriatrickid]

4 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

I did bother to read it... Why not, it's Sunday...

 

I found it very interesting and a good account of what can happen to any of us, there are always things going on in the background !!

Glad you came out of it with a positive and not all negative. Good luck to all 3 of you for the future :)

 Can happen to any of us?  Perhaps to you and your associates. This is a story of fraud and human trafficking. I do not know anyone who would do such a thing. It seems to have worked out for the OP who I believe is better off without the convicted criminal in his life.  The woman most certainly knew what she was doing as did her family. 

[nextmove]

51 minutes ago, samsensam said:

 

bit of a confusing post and to be honest i gave up reading after the first few paragraphs... i get the gist that your wife was/is involved in scamming innocent people who probably cant/couldn't afford to lose the money. she sounds like a real catch.

Please let me allow you to look inward for one fleeting moment of your life and quote somebody that you hopefully will know very well from a recent post:-

 

oh dear my friend, if are unable to express yourself in mature and polite way it's better to say nothing.

 

i reiterate; ignorance is not a defence wherever you are. and as they say; making assumptions makes an ass out of you and me.

 

have a nice day 

 

Touche ,Touche my friend

 

Have a nice day !

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OmarZaid]

1 hour ago, Ulic said:

I read both the link and the current story. I guess many no longer have the attention

span or are too busy to read. In any case, there are no winners here. I feel sorry for everyone.

(Except Aunty) The scammed, a young mother, daughter, and of course yourself. The silver

lining is the opportunity your daughter has embraced. (Her education)

I have only one piece of advice and it has nothing to do with your story. 

Get your daughter out of her elite level gymnastics program. It is a terrible sport full of

abuse and most of the athletes have eating disorders. Unfortunately, that is what it takes to be

successful in that sport. Best of luck and happy times going forward.

Agreed ...

[sanemax]

5 hours ago, nextmove said:

But not as long as the last five years...I assure you.

 

Besides interesting stories are generally on the longer side, you don't get many interesting one liners

*I woke up this morning and theres a Chinese space station on my roof *?

[nextmove]

53 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

 Can happen to any of us?  Perhaps to you and your associates. This is a story of fraud and human trafficking. I do not know anyone who would do such a thing. It seems to have worked out for the OP who I believe is better off without the convicted criminal in his life.  The woman most certainly knew what she was doing as did her family. 

Well it happned to me ,so I  have to agree it could happen to anyone of us. Its no different than a wife or a husband having an affair behind your back...that can also  "happen to anyone of us". It's really all about the luck of the draw at the end of the day.

 

Just to make a correction here this is only a story about fraud. Human trafficking NEVER took place since there were evidently no real jobs bad or good ever forthcoming.Nobody ended up in a very bad place being abused in a foreign land. However on balance yes I have to agree that my ex partner and  her family almost certainly knew what they were doing and if this was the case I am reviled by it as much as the next decent human being....particularly as myself and my daughter also became victims and suffered the consequences of such an act on a very  personal level .

[baansgr]

Great read and at last things have changed for the better. Sure the future holds much happiness for you and your daughter. Thanks for sharing 

[nextmove]

41 minutes ago, sanemax said:

*I woke up this morning and theres a Chinese space station on my roof *?

 

Interesting...better order a Chinese "takeaway" to get rid of it !

[nextmove]

15 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Great read and at last things have changed for the better. Sure the future holds much happiness for you and your daughter. Thanks for sharing 

Thanks for your kind words baansgr.

[bheard]

Interesting story, but very long. Good luck.

Get real mate. Intetesting stories are always long.

Sent from my F3116 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bheard]

Can't be bothered to read as way too long.....can you get the original story and the latest post down to twitter length.  That is the attention span of most in these gadget oriented days.

You included.

Sent from my F3116 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bheard]

bwpage3
 
I have told the whole story as far as I am able to.From my side it is the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Why would I be looking for sympathy for my "wife" after what she has put myself and my daughter through? The only reason I did what I did was for my daughter. If no child had been involved I admit that after asserting the evidence I would have walked and never looked back. I always knew I would probably not forgive my wife and that is why I have chosen not to be reconciled in any shape or form other than to provide my innocent daughter with a Mother going forward.
 
I would also point out that "my two thousand Pounds" was not offered to the whole of Isaan but to the people I could only be reasonably expected to know about in connection with my "wife" at the time....as per the professional advice of my then Lawyer.The way you have presented your post you would think my former parther was responsible for scamming the entire population of Isaan.
 
Can you elaborate on what is going wrong for Thai people currently working in Israel please? I am curious since I still have missing pieces to the jigsaw.
 
Thank you.

Thank you for telling your story.
Pay no attention to the idiots here who want to denigrate you.
Good luck with your future life and especially to your daughter's future.

Sent from my F3116 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[stropper]

what an amazing story, i was captured,totally from start to finish, well done it is great to read a truelly great story of a poms success in thailand with such a happy ending, well done ,and you can be very proud of your self, actually i vagualy do remember the first bit, i always wondered what happened