Agency Sponsorship for Financial Requirement of Reirement Visa

[Peterw42]

 

9 minutes ago, JOC said:

2.18(6) Police Order 327/2557     states...

For the retirement extension, there is no room for doubt. The English translation of clause 2.22(4) reads "On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months"

Same document also says

 

"5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application."

 

Its discretionary, which is how the agent described it to me.

 

His words "the high up officers can override the 3 month requirements"

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

You gals are still not getting it! No seasoning discretion is needed. The applications are presented fully seasoned.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Peterw42]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You gals are still not getting it! No seasoning discretion is needed. The applications are presented fully seasoned.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

How can it be seasoned, the agent only has your bank book for a couple of days. I checked my bank book after and the money went in on Wednesday morning, got the visa, back out on Wednesday afternoon.

 

[pontious]

Lets ask the experts - Ubonjoe , Mario etc , do you think it is legal.?

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, pontious said:

Lets ask the experts - Ubonjoe , Mario etc , do you think it is legal.?

If the mods thought it's illegal the thread would be closed

[pontious]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

If the mods thought it's illegal the thread would be closed

I did not ask you. They usually answer themselves..

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

 

Same document also says

 

"5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application."

 

Its discretionary, which is how the agent described it to me.

 

His words "the high up officers can override the 3 month requirements"

 

Absolutely correct. No money will even change accounts and there are some offices that will offer an 'Express' service quite openly and legally for around 20,000 baht. You get the extension there and then. All in the open and no waiting. Nothing illegal about it if your willing to pay for an 'Express' service. When using an agent, money rarely changes account anyway. If and when money does change accounts, how could the banks also cover themselves by issuing a letter etc to say it had been seasoned if it hadn't of been? Do people seriously think the banks would in on an illegal activity too? 
These 'Express' services are perfectly legal. That's what your paying for.
 

 

 

[pontious]

33 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

 

Do you get an  official receipt for the 20,000 baht.? If not I would  not call that legal.

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, pontious said:

Do you get an  official receipt for the 20,000 baht.? If not I would  not call that legal.

You get the extension in your passport. Isn't that receipt enough? And again, what part of the following is hard to understand?

"5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application."

[pontious]

2 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

You get the extension in your passport. Isn't that receipt enough? And again, what part of the following is hard to understand?

"5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application."

So NO receipt   - straight forward corruption - that IS not  legal, whichever way you try to shine it.

[JOC]

12 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

You get the extension in your passport. Isn't that receipt enough? And again, what part of the following is hard to understand?

"5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application."

You are contradicting yourself....

>>the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application."<<

And at the same time claiming that the applicants are getting their extensions straight away...no time to forward the application for approval..

The head of a local immigration office is hardly to be considered "an authorized competent officer"

 

 

[pontious]

 

 

And even if they  did forward it why for something perfectly LEGAL should the price increase from 1900 Baht to 20,000 Baht.

Edited April 3, 2018 by pontious
text

[Jingthing]

Why are y'all so put out by this? It's done here for many years. If it's not a problem for Thai immigration why is it a problem for you? Hint - - this ain't Kansas.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[pontious]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Why are y'all so put out by this? It's done here for many years. If it's not a problem for Thai immigration why is it a problem for you? Hint - - this ain't Kansas.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

And who asked you.

[JOC]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Why are y'all so put out by this? It's done here for many years. If it's not a problem for Thai immigration why is it a problem for you? Hint - - this ain't Kansas.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Because it is corruption.....Doesn't make it legit, that it has been done for many years.

Of course it is no problem for Thai immigration....the top of the food-chain making millions every year...

And it clearly not legal..since the Chief of National Police held a meeting with Phuket immigration about their corrupt ways....and one of the 6 points at the meeting was getting 1 year extensions without the required financials. (Meeting was 2015)

At which amount is corruption not "charming" anymore...?

Edited April 3, 2018 by JOC

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, JOC said:

Because it is corruption.....Doesn't make it legit, that it has been done for many years.

Of course it is no problem for Thai immigration....the top of the food-chain making millions every year...

And it clearly not legal..since the Chief of National Police held a meeting with Phuket immigration about their corrupt ways....and one of the 6 points at the meeting was getting 1 year extensions without the required financials. (Meeting was 2015)

At which amount is corruption not "charming" anymore...?

Thailand is not my country. Is it yours? There is corruption in all nations to different degrees. It's the business of the THAIS to deal with it or not deal with it. Unless you're a citizen here, it's none of your business. Sometimes it helps foreigners and sometimes it hurts foreigners. All this noise about visa agencies and a certain number of foreigners taking an easy method. As I've already explained, there are downsides to it -- a large fee and the feeling that there is at least a chance (in my view not much) of it biting you later. So that's a tradeoff. It's their choice. It's my choice not to do it. Live and let live. 

[JOC]

43 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Thailand is not my country. Is it yours? There is corruption in all nations to different degrees. It's the business of the THAIS to deal with it or not deal with it. Unless you're a citizen here, it's none of your business. Sometimes it helps foreigners and sometimes it hurts foreigners. All this noise about visa agencies and a certain number of foreigners taking an easy method. As I've already explained, there are downsides to it -- a large fee and the feeling that there is at least a chance (in my view not much) of it biting you later. So that's a tradeoff. It's their choice. It's my choice not to do it. Live and let live. 

>>Unless you're a citizen here, it's none of your business.<<

This forum is called Thaivisa.......where members are allowed to discuss aspects of living in Thailand....

Since I presume, you are not a citizen either, I take your are not commenting on Thai related issues here...

Makes me wonder, how the hell you managed to reach 85.550 posts...?

I am out.....

 

 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, JOC said:

>>Unless you're a citizen here, it's none of your business.<<

This forum is called Thaivisa.......where members are allowed to discuss aspects of living in Thailand....

Since I presume, you are not a citizen either, I take your are not commenting on Thai related issues here...

Makes me wonder, how the hell you managed to reach 85.550 posts...?

I am out.....

 

 

I may have not phrased that well enough, so I will try to clarify. I doubt you'll like this either, but I want to be more clear.

 

Here goes --

 

The reason it really rubs me wrong way to hear non-Thai members here (almost all are that) get all church lady moral preachy about this aspect of "corruption" in Thailand. Namly people using the visa agencies for a "easier" path towards retirement extensions. 

 

I feels to me like low grade jealousy and resentment. Hey, I did it the hard way, I followed the letter of the rules to the last dotted T, and these "other" people are cheating.

 

Why is that your business or something you should care about? Isn't that their business? 

 

I also strongly suspect that some of the morality preachers on this are TEMPTED to take the same shortcut themselves, but are AFRAID to, thinking they might get in trouble for doing that. So it's kind of a not very nice JEALOUSY of those with bigger cajones.

 

Personally, as I've stated multiple times, I am NOT promoting this practice nor do I ever want to do it myself.

 

However, over the years, I've come to the conclusion that's it's probably pretty darned LOW RISK and I just think it would be kind of low to degrade the morality of the people that choose to go that route.

 

They take their risks, no matter how low, again, that is THEIR business. I wish them well and no problems with it. I won't hate on them for "cheating."

 

Also to add some of the people doing the morality lecturing might someday be very happy that these visa agencies exist -- because their life circumstances may change and they might NEED their services! I reckon they think that could never happen to them though ... it's always the "other" people.

 

My post count is not the topic here. I find it very obnoxious when people post about that. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Jingthing

[onera1961]

I was the creator of this topic because I was thinking to use their services.

Little background.

I absolutely refuse to keep 800K in a Thai bank for extremely low return and who knows what will happen to my money if I am out of Thailand for 6 months.  I cannot get SS at my age (minimum 62). So, my only option was to get a Non O-A long term (one year ,multiple entry) visa every year or two till I am eligible for SS (in four years).

I thought it would be very hard to get a Non O-A because different consulates in the US had different requirements and rules. I decided to use one of these agencies if my O-A visa was denied. However, I got my O-A visa today from Washington DC and found the process is very easy and quick.

[a977]

A friend of mine went to renew Retirement extension at Jomtien was told money was not in bank for 3 months, he was 2 weeks short, little brown envelope soon sorted problem. So don't know wether legal or not but friend was not getting extension renewed until problem solved.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I feels to me like low grade jealousy and resentment. Hey, I did it the hard way, I followed the letter of the rules to the last dotted T, and these "other" people are cheating.

 

Why is that your business or something you should care about? Isn't that their business? 

 

Because it does not only affect those doing it.  The IOs get greedy - want more and more, to live higher and higher above their legit-pay, and start shafting the honest people to force them to agents - as happened to me, when the "family desk" and "conversion desk" people's jealousy of the "retirement desk" corrupt-wealth, led to their shafting honest applicants out of service - unless they go to an agent.   I don't have proof jealousy drove this action, but I'd bet good money it was. 

 

It is not a problem when corruption only affects those involved in it, or when it is a "tip" amount of money; but when you go for a legit extension, and they try to force you into "agent service" to get a large payoff (many times the actual fee-cost), then it has crossed the line into clearly destructive activity.  At that point, it is "Bad Guys In / Good Guys Out".

 

13 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

 I run into the agent at the office sometimes and he isnt hiding and passing brown envelopes, he is upstairs having a coffee with the boss of immigration while his assistant sits at the extension desk and hands over 6-8 applications. If you ask at immigration, they consider it a "pay for extra service"and I have seen them advise to go to an agent.

I am sure they are friendly and having coffee - but if you think there isn't money passing going on ... a bit naive.

 

I am sure they "advise" to go to an agent, just as I would "advise" anyone here to deposit money into my bank-account.  That is what going to an agent is, depositing money into Immigration IO's pocket, in exchange for service with some "extras" (skipping a queue, not meeting requirements, etc).  IOW, Corruption, plain and simple.

 

13 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

The elite visa's are paying extra and skipping a lot of the regular process.

That is legalized bribery/corruption, though.  Applicants meet the requirements by paying an "official" published fee for an official service.  Where that fee goes (to whom) - and whether the beneficiaries are involved in sabotaging other visa-schemes (TR, EDU) - is another question, but the Elite is fully legal.

 

12 hours ago, jackdd said:

(And even if a law exists the immigration offices still do what they want, just look on the TM30 handling in Phuket, what they are doing is against the law, but they don't care)

I "liked" this part.  Yes, we know from what they do at the airports, and what I experienced trying to get  legit Non-O (conversion and extension) that "the law" is always what the person you are dealing with "says it is,"  here.  Never mind the printed-word.

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by JackThompson

[yuiop]

15 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Did you miss out NOT?

Yes

[chuang]

Only two types of party can answer it....(1) the party has done it with an agent and has no problem whatever, still 

retiring happily in thailand....(2) the party has done it and has issues etc etc with immigration.

I am sure these two parties are out there, so enlighten us....