Cm On 60k Baht A Month?

[Surfing Spleen]

Warning: New guy, first time post

I've been a regular reader for a month now and I find an interesting group of folks here with keen insights. I'm in my early forties and though I have a good job now, I also have a guaranteed-for-life equivalent 60-70k baht a month income and am considering leaving the rat race to lead a life of leisure in CM. I've lived all over Asia, but for many reasons decided on CM after visiting there a couple of months ago.

Is that enough money to live comfortably? By "comfortable," I mean a western style home with air conditioning, cable tv and internet connection with enough money left over to eat, go to the movies, and travel around Thailand a bit. How does 60-70k a month compare by CM farang standards; will I be well-off, middle class, or struggling? I know it's a broad question but I think most of you know pretty much what I mean.

Also, I read somewhere that it is best for a farang to rent a home rather than buy, but I kinda like the idea of owning my own home. If I ever decide to move, I could just sell it, right? Of course I'd rent first to get to know the area. I don't know if I'll actually make the move but it's nice to dream, huh?

Thanks!

Spleen

[Doisaketmoobaan]

I also am on a fixed monthly revenue we own our home eat out almost 5-6 days a week. Have Ubc and all the neccesitys and our budget is 40k a month but we do it on 60k and love it! that includes pretty much doing or buying anything we want Food Dvd's Nicnaks etc- Go for it- but rent first as everyone has posted-

and welcome!!-R

[Ajarn]

I agree with Doisaketmoobaan...60k should be plenty for most reasonable people. Probably, most farangs live on considerably less than 60k. Rent will probably be your single biggest expense...Houses start at around 5,000 baht....

Dreams can come true here, I assure you

[boogie]

60 k reasonable for most people. Are you talking about one person or a family ? I wold be interested to know becaue I am still trying to weigh up our options for a family of four ,two adults and two children. I realise tthe education costs , but would 60 k be enough not counting school fees and rent ? If we did make the move would rent first but then buy later on.

Thanks

[Khun Larry]

Also, I read somewhere that it is best for a farang to rent a home rather than buy, but I kinda like the idea of owning my own home.  If I ever decide to move, I could just sell it, right?  Of course I'd rent first to get to know the area

Spleen

Here is a link about buying a house in BKK. Never a dull moment

http://www.time.com/time/asia/tga/article/...-629437,00.html

Depending on where your house is in T Land, and if you are the actual owner, I would suspect you could stay in it or walk away from it. Sell... I don't know. Others may know more.

IMO Thailand is not a country to own in.

Chookdee

[Surfing Spleen]

Thanks Khun Larry for the article & everyone else for the info.

There will be 2-3 of us when we move. My only child still at home is 16 so we could either make the move now & take him with us (he loves Chiangmai & would be happy to go) or wait two years when he's off to college & then go. I've heard the private high schools are rather expensive so for now I'm thinking a couple years down the road may be better.

Somewhat of a different subject but along the same lines - I have an American buddy who's son, 18, loved Thailand so much that he refused to go with them when the family returned home and is now attending a "business college" in Bangkok. Pops is happy because tuition is very reasonable, but does anyone have any insight into colleges (taught in English) and their quality of education? If there are worthwhile universities there, that would also prompt us to make the move sooner rather than later.

FYI, my daughter attended a university in Taiwan for a year and found that though the campus was wonderful (safe, modern, etc.) and reasonably priced, the classes were taught at too painstaking of a pace for her because so many students were non-native English speakers.

Aloha,

Spleen

[Doisaketmoobaan]

60 k reasonable for most people. Are you talking about one person or a family ? I wold be interested to know becaue I am still trying to weigh up our options for a family of four ,two adults and two children. I realise tthe education costs , but would 60 k be enough not counting school fees and rent ? If we did make the move would rent first but then buy later on.

Thanks

We have A family of 3 and a baby on the way. our 3 year old goes to a thai school

which runs about 30k baht a year. yet schools like houses there are so many choices it depends on your budget!!-R

[Ajarn]

Also, I read somewhere that it is best for a farang to rent a home rather than buy, but I kinda like the idea of owning my own home.  If I ever decide to move, I could just sell it, right?  Of course I'd rent first to get to know the area

Spleen

Depending on where your house is in T Land, and if you are the actual owner, I would suspect you could stay in it or walk away from it. Sell... I don't know. Others may know more.

IMO Thailand is not a country to own in.

Chookdee

In my 18 years here, I've known many farangs who've bought nice homes here for a good price.

I've never known of even one farang who's sold his home when he wanted to. Most home buyers are Thais, and the main market is new homes, not used homes

But, I've personally known quite a few (10+...2 murdered) who've lost their home and their money due to unscrupulous Thais...Since farangs must put a chanod (Land Title) in a Thai's name, this is where many problems get their start.

If you do want to buy a home, ask yourself one question first: What Thai person do I trust enough to hand over permanant, unrevocable rights to a few million baht of my money?

[Ajarn]

60 k reasonable for most people. Are you talking about one person or a family ? I wold be interested to know becaue I am still trying to weigh up our options for a family of four ,two adults and two children.  I realise tthe education costs , but would 60 k be enough not counting school fees and rent  ? If we did make the move would  rent first but then buy later on.

Thanks

As Doi said, it depends on your budget and needs. Education is the defining factor in most family budgets here, it seems. Thai public schools are cheap and provide basic education, but teach only in Thai. Schools that teach in English cost considerably more...Like up to 20-50,000 baht per MONTH, averaged out, plus other school 'expenses'....Places like Prem probably will likely do your children well, but some of the other so-called 'International Schools' should be investigated carefully before laying money out.

Somewhere in this forum is a thread on local schools, w/prices....

[Surfing Spleen]

Haven't figured out the "Quote" function yet, but Ajarn said:

"But, I've personally known quite a few (10+...2 murdered) who've lost their home and their money due to unscrupulous Thais...Since farangs must put a chanod (Land Title) in a Thai's name,"...

My wife of 20 years, though not a Thai citizen has Thai heritage and we have lots of trustworthy relatives in Thailand, so using someone else's name won't be a problem, but it sounds like finding a buyer might be if we decide to sell. Plus, if a nice house rents for around 5,000 baht a month, maybe renting isn't such a bad idea.

Khun Larry said come time to sell I may need to "walk away". If I drop a few million baht on a home, that would be tough for me to walk away from.

Ajarn, did you say, "murdered"?

Aloha,

Spleen

[maerim]

Have Ubc and all the neccesitys and our budget is 40k a month but we do it on 60k and love it! that includes pretty much doing or buying anything we want

With the 20 k a month you spend above you budget you might want to consider getting the services of a decent accountant.

You might not love it quite so much when he looks at the books.

[Ajarn]

Haven't figured out the "Quote" function yet, but Ajarn said:

"But, I've personally known quite a few (10+...2 murdered) who've lost their home and their money due to unscrupulous Thais...Since farangs must put a chanod (Land Title) in a Thai's name,"...

My wife of 20 years, though not a Thai citizen has Thai heritage and we have lots of trustworthy relatives in Thailand, so using someone else's name won't be a problem, but it sounds like finding a buyer might be if we decide to sell.  Plus, if a nice house rents for around 5,000 baht a month, maybe renting isn't such a bad idea.

Khun Larry said come time to sell I may need to "walk away".  If I drop a few million baht on a home, that would be tough for me to walk away from.

Ajarn, did you say, "murdered"?

Aloha,

Spleen

Yes, murdered. I've personally known of two, but have heard and read about more...A million baht in Thailand could be seen as a million dollars to many here. A foreigner here must be serious about their personal security. MANY farangs are murdered for their money, or die mysteriously here every year. Not just Farangs, of course. Many Thais are murdered for their valuables, too. A Buddhist country, sure. But a violent, hardcore society, too.

Sorry if I sound like Chicken Little saying the sky's falling.....I generally choose to trust people, and the vast majority of the time, they deserve that trust I've given them. Because of my physical disabilty, I'm forced to rely on others, too...I'm lucky to have some good people around me to help me.

I known I'm not in Kansas anymore. Things are quite different here than in most places we've come from. Reading Thai people correctly is difficult for me, as it must be for most foreigners here. Body language is different. It's also difficult to read situations here especially if you're weak in the Thai language...Lot's going on here that we're clueless to.

Because of most of us being relatively clueless, it leaves us vulnerable to those who wish to exploit us. Just using good common sense is normally enough, but there are surprises waiting around most every corner.

I don't think anyone should be paranoid about living here, but educating yourself as to the possible dangers lurking behind the facade is simply being smart, in my book. And money is something EVERYONE wants. Most are honest people here, some are not. Buyer Beware.

[ThaiPauly]

I hope you have lived in CM a long time Ajarn, if you know of 2 murdered then I hope that is in 20 years or so!

Did they just mix it up with the wrong people and commit a Pattya stlyle suicide which seem to becoming all the rage?

Or was it wong place wrong time, please do tell ( without being to specific). I am moving to CM in August for good, although I spnd qute a bit of time there now, bu obvouly being in the possesion of the sort of information you have would be useful for all of us who wish to "live long and prosper" in CM, approx how many of us Farang live in CM?

[Ajarn]

I hope you have lived in CM a long time Ajarn, if you know of 2 murdered then I hope that is in 20 years or so!

Yes, that is two friends over an eighteen year period, that have been murdered by their wife or relative. How many friends have you had robbed/murdered by their wife or relative in the last 18 years? Hey, if you are okay with those stats, fine by me.

Did they just mix it up with the wrong people and commit a Pattya stlyle suicide which seem to becoming all the rage?

Killed by their wife or family. But hey, just bad karma, right?

Or was it wong place wrong time, please do tell ( without being to specific). I am moving to CM in August for good, although I spnd qute a bit of time there now, bu obvouly being in the possesion of the sort of information you have would be useful for all of us who wish to "live long and prosper" in CM, approx how many of us Farang live in CM?

Good Luck

[Khun Larry]

My wife of 20 years, though not a Thai citizen has Thai heritage and we have lots of trustworthy relatives in Thailand,

Really? Maybe one or two but Lots of trustworthy Thais?

Sorry Spleen, sounds very unlikely.

[cutethaigirl]

Mr Spleen

Read all the above and can add for your further entertainment / understanding.

Citizens of the USA tend NOT to rent 5K houses. The 5K ones are fine but US citizens tend to spend nearer 20K to be in a similar environment to 'back home'.

Sure you can buy but it will be in a Thai name. As mentioned above...... BE PREPARED for a loss if you ever decide to leave. Or at least to rent it out whilst you have long gone. There are so many new houses who wants to buy an 'old' one with 'ghosts' (piiii) in it:-)

The average wage for a Thai in CM is 60K a year but realistically you will not survive on that:-)

Schooling as mentioned above eats a lot of cash from 100K to 300K a year depending on the facility.

BKK Universities can be that PER TERM for the top ones.

Entertainment and eating out are very reasonable.

It has to be said that this is due to Westerners now receiving a lot more bahts to the XXXXX (insert your currency) otherwise things are slowly becoming dearer.

As an example. 10 years ago movie ticket was 20 baht now it is 120! 10 years ago 1$ now 3$ so the exchange rate helps counter inflation.

Best of all CM is a great place. Changing rapidly. Modernisation and development brings with it two sides of course but generally considered on the right track by the majority of citizens.

Be prepared to be flexible and keep your hand on your wallet and your head on the same level above the fround that it has been the past years of your life

CT

[dutch]

Mr.Spleen,

You said ; the 3 of you. incl your son (16 years)

Later you talk about your daughter visiting the taiwan school)

May be a slip of the pen.

However taking a child of that age to LOS, needs thinking about his/hers future!

You want to stay there?

What is your child gonna do in his/hers professional life?

[Ajarn]

However taking a child of that age to LOS, needs thinking about his/hers future!

You want to stay there?

What is your child gonna do in his/hers professional life?

Excellent point, especially when considering education options, and how that will/won't support possible future opportunities. I think any future planing for kids should be maybe focus a lot on creating as many potential paths as possible. Many 16 year olds will change their minds often...

In my opinion, only Prem seems to offer that level of education to prepare a kid for many future roads. Other schools might be great, but maybe more hit or miss than Prem seems to be?

I think the life experience one gains from living overseas can be an enormous help in the future. For example, overseas experience would be highly valued in any Foreign Service, be it your own, or.....

And, of course, every one of us living in a foreign country can tell you how overseas experience opens one's eyes to many things

[Surfing Spleen]

You said ; the 3 of you. incl your son (16 years)

Later you talk about your daughter visiting the taiwan school)

May be a slip of the pen.

Yeah, the daughter's safely tucked away at university and living in a dorm so she wouldn't join my wife, son & I in CM.

So, if we buy a house and leave CM for months on end, would it be difficult to find renters? Are there good property managers?

We looked at some really nice, new homes in secure areas when we visited CM and I recall they went for about four million. Could I buy a decent, used place for anywhere near a million?

Aloha,

Spleen

[Surfing Spleen]

However taking a child of that age to LOS, needs thinking about his/hers future!

I think the life experience one gains from living overseas can be an enormous help in the future. For example, overseas experience would be highly valued in any Foreign Service, be it your own, or.....

Both very good points & I couldn't agree more. Living overseas gives one a whole new set of eyeballs.

Spleen

[KevinN]

One thing that you want to remember,,The Thai educational standards are rated at the lowest in Asia.

I wouldn't want a kid of mine educated here and all Thai's that can afford it have their's educated abroad,fact Toxin just guaranteed foreign education scholarships for taxi drivers kids.

I say this even tho my wife is a school teacher.

[cutethaigirl]

Mr Spleen

a million will not buy anything remotely desirable these days in CM:-)

Seriously suggest you follow the advice of ALL posters here and rent for at LEAST a year before throwing your cash away.

We are all serious with that advice for good reason

[p1p]

So, if we buy a house and leave CM for months on end, would it be difficult to find renters? Are there good property managers?

Rent

Rent

Rent.

There are a host of properties to rent, and also to buy around Chiang Mai at present.

If you go away, you are unlikely to find people to rent in your absence. There are far toomany properties to choose from without the time constraints you would have to put on your tenants.

Good managers. Never come across any. Happy to take your money to find tenants but will accept no responsibility for looking after your property.

Lastly, Rent. Do not think about buying unless the property is both unique and your dream home. Even then, enquire about renting or try for a seller-financed rental-purchase.

[ThaiPauly]

So, if we buy a house and leave CM for months on end, would it be difficult to find renters?  Are there good property managers?

Rent

Rent

Rent.

There are a host of properties to rent, and also to buy around Chiang Mai at present.

If you go away, you are unlikely to find people to rent in your absence. There are far toomany properties to choose from without the time constraints you would have to put on your tenants.

Good managers. Never come across any. Happy to take your money to find tenants but will accept no responsibility for looking after your property.

Lastly, Rent. Do not think about buying unless the property is both unique and your dream home. Even then, enquire about renting or try for a seller-financed rental-purchase.

I am having a house built for me at the moment. I have looked at the rental market and cannot find anything that is just what I want, so building "the house of my dreams" seems realistic, conidering it will only cost 45,000 pounds.

However I know that you should never risk what you cannot afford to loose.

and if it went t##s up then as far as I am concerned I cannot loose, as I can afford to loose if you get my drift.

I am thrilled to be buying, if you rent you are stuck with what you have and cannot change it. ( I want a swimming pool and spa) I know am bucking the trend here of some very wise people, and I am not saying that they are wrong, it is a personal thing.As I intend to spend the rest of my days in CM and I am confident that I will be very happy in the house I am having built.

This is however my opinion because it suits me, I am not for one moment advocating that it is right, its just right for me.

[Davidcharles]

Haven't figured out the "Quote" function yet, but Ajarn said:

"But, I've personally known quite a few (10+...2 murdered) who've lost their home and their money due to unscrupulous Thais...Since farangs must put a chanod (Land Title) in a Thai's name,"...

My wife of 20 years, though not a Thai citizen has Thai heritage and we have lots of trustworthy relatives in Thailand, so using someone else's name won't be a problem, but it sounds like finding a buyer might be if we decide to sell. Plus, if a nice house rents for around 5,000 baht a month, maybe renting isn't such a bad idea.

Khun Larry said come time to sell I may need to "walk away". If I drop a few million baht on a home, that would be tough for me to walk away from.

Ajarn, did you say, "murdered"?

Aloha,

Spleen

Safest way is to form a Ltd Company which will own the house.

I have just done that.

But I was told by the Lawyer in a big firm, that it would cost 20000bht.

It did, but then there was the 20000 for his services and another 20000 transfer fee (The seller paid another 20000 incidentally). You only get told these things a bit at a time.......God they are a clever lot when it comes to getting hold of our Dosh!.

When I first experienced the 'little bit extra' put on everything I bought, I didn't worry, it was small beer I thought. NOW! I get really pissed-off on a daily basis........They are all at it! From the Government to the humblest peasant.

Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden egg...........

[Surfing Spleen]

David,

Still, it would seem money well spent if it protects your investment and gives you peace of mind. Building or buying a house in the West also has lots of hidden costs. If a few years down the road, you decide to move somewhere else, will you be able to sell the house? Will you need agreement/permission from the "LTD Company"?

Also, I've heard that the land is leased to you for thirty years. If this is so and you live there for ten years, is the buyer only entitled to the last twenty years?

Aloha,

Spleen

[pnustedt]

.

It did, but then there was the 20000 for his services and another 20000 transfer fee (The seller paid another 20000 incidentally). You only get told these things a bit at a time.......God they are a clever lot when it comes to getting hold of our Dosh!.

The trait of extracting money from a house builder is not unique to LOS.

Try building in UK - pay planning fees, building reg. fees, advertising notices, estate agents comm., solicitors, survey fees, architects, quantity surveyors, access rights, stamp duty, rates before you start thinking about services. That assumes that you own the freehold and don't have to start negotiating on a leasehold property with adjacent property rights to take into account.

[paulnuek]

I (meaning us-the wife is Thai) have a house in CM already,if it wasn`t for the wife I would not be able to own land.

My advice would be to listen to a lot of the answers and simply rent.

Maybe you may tire of CM...No beaches,and a lot less falangs than say a beach resort or the big smoke.

Not really sure about how much you should expect to pay for rent.

But I am moving out next year on about 30,000-40,000 a month.

Don`t know where you getting your money from.

My plan is an offshore account.

Been told nationwide is good and don`t charge to send money from UK.

Good luck.

may even see you out there.

Paul