U.S. students walk out again to protest gun violence

[sukhumvitneon]

What the problem all comes down to is that it's part mental health (suicides, active shooters) and part demographics.  The vast majority of gun deaths in the US are suicides and a certain demographic group murdering other people in that same demographic group.  An event so common, it barely makes more than a blurb in the the local section of a newspaper and is a mere paragraph or two on wire services.  I won't go into to detail because it's not worth it because the post will be deleted anyway by a mod or admin if I did.

5 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

If my rhetoric seems out of left field - that's because it may take extreme language to deal with an extreme predicament.    Right wingers, by their own admission, say it would be impossible to take military-grade guns away 'from their cold dead hands.'   In other words, they're willing to wage military war against government/authorities in order to keep their war weapons.  They say it themselves.  

 

I don't think those HS youngsters are going far enough in their quest to make schools safer.   

Just stop.  You're getting hysterical about "right wingers" and "Nazis" without offering up any substantial arguments.

[impulse]

14 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

If my rhetoric seems out of left field - that's because it may take extreme language to deal with an extreme predicament.    Right wingers, by their own admission, say it would be impossible to take military-grade guns away 'from their cold dead hands.'   In other words, they're willing to wage military war against government/authorities in order to keep their war weapons.  They say it themselves.  

 

I don't think those HS youngsters are going far enough in their quest to make schools safer.   

 

And I think the American people haven't gone far enough to curb the government abuses of our privacy rights.  Probably because millions of citizens armed with smartphones can't defend themselves against government abuses like a group with AR-15's can.   It's more about protecting themselves from a government that tramples their constitutional rights than just about keeping their weapons.  But they can't do it with smartphones.

 

Edit:  That said, I am not a fan of the militias.  But I do understand where they're coming from.  Our rights have been eroding away for years, accelerated by 9/11 and The Patriot Act.  Who knows who's going to be elected in 2032, or how bad it's going to get?

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by impulse

[stevenl]

47 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

The end result is always the same:

 

Ban guns. 

Says the guy who accused me of distorting somebody's comment by changing 'their' to 'all'.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

17 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

If my rhetoric seems out of left field - that's because it may take extreme language to deal with an extreme predicament.    Right wingers, by their own admission, say it would be impossible to take military-grade guns away 'from their cold dead hands.'   In other words, they're willing to wage military war against government/authorities in order to keep their war weapons.  They say it themselves.  

 

I don't think those HS youngsters are going far enough in their quest to make schools safer.   

 

"right wingers" "military grade guns" "war weapons" "wage military war" "war weapons" 

 

This is what you are pushing the narrative towards, rather than trying to find a solution.

[stevenl]

18 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

"right wingers" "military grade guns" "war weapons" "wage military war" "war weapons" 

 

This is what you are pushing the narrative towards, rather than trying to find a solution.

The solution is really easy, but you just don't want to see it.

[ballpoint]

1 hour ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

The fact that you didn't hear about this one just shows how complicit the media is in pushing the narrative of the (white) male shooter. 

 

Police talked with YouTube shooter hours before attack -- and say they didn't notice anything disturbing

 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/04/us/who-is-nasim-aghdam-youtube-shooter/index.html

Thank you. I'll edit what I originally said:

 

.... The OP is about mass school, and other public places, shootings, where, in the majority of cases, the perpetrator is finally shot dead by law enforcement or themselves. ...

 

She also used her own, legally registered, gun, and shot herself afterwards, which reinforces what I said in my post.  Would she have gone to the trouble of illegally obtaining a gun and carrying out the shooting had she not already had one at hand?  Maybe, maybe not, but why make it so easy?  Every country has angst bound teenagers and unstable people who think the world is against them, or deletes their precious videos, yet it would seem that in one particular country this translates to them grabbing a gun and blasting away the perceived enemy, and anyone else who happens to be around.  There are two possible conclusions that may be drawn:  Either the US has far more unstable, angst ridden, chip on shoulder bearing people than other countries, or it has a similar number, but they are far more likely to have access to a gun.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

56 minutes ago, stevenl said:

The solution is really easy, but you just don't want to see it.

 

Go on... 

[UncleTouchyFingers]

12 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Either the US has far more unstable, angst ridden, chip on shoulder bearing people than other countries, or it has a similar number, but they are far more likely to have access to a gun.

 

Trucks, homemade bombs, knives, hatchets, machetes, acid is an apparent fave in the UK.... 

 

Take your pick, because bad people do bad things and no legislation will ever stop that. People have been killing people since humans figured out how to pick up rocks and use them as tools. 

[sukhumvitneon]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Have an amnesty and buy back every gun a fixed over price.

 

Automatic jail time for possession of a fire arm.

 

Make ammunition sales illegal

 

Change calibre of police and military weapons

 

and many more

I read a few weeks ago that London's murder rate now surpasses NYC.  How's "bin that knife" working out in the UK?  

 

Better add kitchen knives to Section 5.

[wabothai]

To take guns away from Americans rimes with taking thainess away from thais.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, sukhumvitneon said:

I read a few weeks ago that London's murder rate now surpasses NYC.  How's "bin that knife" working out in the UK?  

 

Better add kitchen knives to Section 5.

Let's put that into context shall we:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/london-murder-rate-new-york-compare-worse-stabbings-knife-crime-teenagers-statistics-figures-a8286866.html

[yardrunner]

9 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Platitudes are great.

 

But with somewhere around 300 million guns already in circulation, many of them in the hands of bad guys, those platitudes come up way short on practical solutions.

 

What, exactly, would you suggest?  Because no matter what your proposed solution is, I can play the devil's advocate and tell you why it won't work.   And I'm not even that militant about it.  Could the USA do better?  Sure, absolutely.  Can the problem be eliminated?  Not with 300 million already out there.  Pandora's box is already open.

 

and that is your solution do nothing. yes the problem can be if not eliminated reduced Australia did it and so can the USA if the politicians really want to tackle the problem

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Trucks, homemade bombs, knives, hatchets, machetes, acid is an apparent fave in the UK.... 

 

Take your pick, because bad people do bad things and no legislation will ever stop that. People have been killing people since humans figured out how to pick up rocks and use them as tools. 

Yes, that is embarrassing. 

 

We're not reduced to gunning down kids. Yet.

[impulse]

7 minutes ago, yardrunner said:

and that is your solution do nothing. yes the problem can be if not eliminated reduced Australia did it and so can the USA if the politicians really want to tackle the problem

 

Australia did what, exactly?

 

How many mass shootings per year did they have before, and after they did "it"?

 

What was the total crime rate before and after they did "it"?

 

How has that crime rate trended since then?

 

They may have taken people's guns away, but did the people gain any personal safety in return for giving up that personal freedom?

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by impulse

[UncleTouchyFingers]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

They may have taken people's guns away, but did the people gain any personal safety in return for giving up that personal freedom?

 

And this really is the crux of the matter. 

[UncleTouchyFingers]

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Yes, that is embarrassing. 

 

We're not reduced to gunning down kids. Yet.

 

Not yet, but you really should take care of your own backyard before looking into everyone else's. 

[UncleTouchyFingers]

20 minutes ago, yardrunner said:

and that is your solution do nothing.

 

Nope. 

Harden schools, armed security/teachers/ex-mil employees, and have the cops do their jobs. Enforce laws already on the books. Have an honest, real discussion about why, mentally, this is becoming a thing. 

 

The parkland shooter fell through EVERY SINGLE crack there was in the system. Teachers, Cops, FBI (!!), legislation, police department politics - all of that contributed to this kid going on a shooting rampage. All those things need to be addressed first and legitimately acknowledged as a failure before anymore "gun control" discussion happens. 

[mike324]

5 hours ago, impulse said:

 

One more time, I don't see a concrete proposal here.  Just some more platitudes. 

 

I believe in world peace, the end of hunger, and guaranteed health care for all humans.  But I don't have a plan for those.  Just like I'd love to see an end to mass shootings (that doesn't have even worse unintended consequences), but I can't think of a plan without serious downsides.  And I'm not seeing any workable plans put forward here.

 

Ban bump stocks, require training and X number of hours before you can own a certain type of gun. Thats a good start. Close the loop holes regarding to no background checks on purchasing guns. Have better background screening as well, more specific in terms of what type of people with mental illness can or cannot buy guns. Please let me know what are the downsides and why the downsides outweighs the positives here?

 

I don't think thats too hard to accomplish and ask for in regards to  responsible use of firearms. 

[Grouse]

17 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Not yet, but you really should take care of your own backyard before looking into everyone else's. 

That's fair!

 

I'll sort mine out, you sort yours.

 

Can I borrow a gun?

[mike324]

11 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Nope. 

Harden schools, armed security/teachers/ex-mil employees, and have the cops do their jobs. Enforce laws already on the books. Have an honest, real discussion about why, mentally, this is becoming a thing. 

 

The parkland shooter fell through EVERY SINGLE crack there was in the system. Teachers, Cops, FBI (!!), legislation, police department politics - all of that contributed to this kid going on a shooting rampage. All those things need to be addressed first and legitimately acknowledged as a failure before anymore "gun control" discussion happens. 

Haven't you seen recent news on teachers accidentally leaving fire arms unattended after taking a leak in the restroom? Arming teachers and bringing more guns in school is not the solution. More guns in schools will naturally lead to more accidents.

 

It would be interesting to analyze, was it a failure in system that led to the shooting, or could the shooting have been prevented with better gun control such as more stringent background checks.

 

[UncleTouchyFingers]

10 minutes ago, mike324 said:

Ban bump stocks, require training and X number of hours before you can own a certain type of gun. Thats a good start. Close the loop holes regarding to no background checks on purchasing guns. Have better background screening as well, more specific in terms of what type of people with mental illness can or cannot buy guns. Please let me know what are the downsides and why the downsides outweighs the positives here?

 

I don't think thats too hard to accomplish and ask for in regards to  responsible use of firearms. 

 

Theres 2 sides to this argument here. The first one is a legal one. 

 

The right to Vote and the right to own a gun go hand in hand. 

 

Should we also require voters to undergo voter ID laws? The argument (by some) is NO, thats racist and negatively effects people of color. You would be doing the same to people of color who cannot afford expensive training courses and X number of hours and therefore excluding them from the inalienable right to bear arms. Honestly its not just people of color its everyone that would be negatively effected by that sort of law, but Im using the Voter issue to illustrate that it is a serious enough problem as to constantly be argued by Democrat politicians. 

 

Theres also rulings against registrations and having doctors involved in ones basic rights. 

 

The second argument is that none of this legislation would have stopped the parkland shooter.  

[KMartinHandyman]

 
The fact that you didn't hear about this one just shows how complicit the media is in pushing the narrative of the (white) male shooter. 
 

Police talked with YouTube shooter hours before attack -- and say they didn't notice anything disturbing

 

 
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/04/us/who-is-nasim-aghdam-youtube-shooter/index.html

She looks like an angry Morticia from the Adams family

[UncleTouchyFingers]

6 minutes ago, mike324 said:

Haven't you seen recent news on teachers accidentally leaving fire arms unattended after taking a leak in the restroom? Arming teachers and bringing more guns in school is not the solution. More guns in schools will naturally lead to more accidents.

 

One teacher left his gun in a public bathroom on a school outing. Not in the school itself. 

 

And it most definitely is the solution, short term. Along with hardening schools against the threat. These 2 right here, if not done, will most definitely lead to another shooting, and another bunch of unprepared kids, teachers, and police. 

 

Mass shooter and unprepared people? Or hardened schools and armed ex-military teachers and cops? I think its insane to deny the logic here. 

 

16 minutes ago, mike324 said:

was it a failure in system that led to the shooting, or could the shooting have been prevented with better gun control such as more stringent background checks.

 

Its been analyzed to death and Ive been watching all this closely since it happened. You really should read up on what happened with this kid. How many times the police were called, how many times the FBI were called... Its insane. Absolutely it was a failure of the system. 

[bristolboy]

5 hours ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

One teacher left his gun in a public bathroom on a school outing. Not in the school itself. 

 

And it most definitely is the solution, short term. Along with hardening schools against the threat. These 2 right here, if not done, will most definitely lead to another shooting, and another bunch of unprepared kids, teachers, and police. 

 

Mass shooter and unprepared people? Or hardened schools and armed ex-military teachers and cops? I think its insane to deny the logic here. 

 

 

 

Someone else who believes that because the police wear uniforms and carry guns, and ex military members once wore uniforms and carried guns, that the jobs are essentially the same. I think it takes seriously defective reasoning to  believe that.

[boomerangutang]

11 hours ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

"right wingers" "military grade guns" "war weapons" "wage military war" "war weapons"  This is what you are pushing the narrative towards, rather than trying to find a solution.

I use those terms because, if you want to try to lessen a problem (gun deaths) in the US, you've got to start with the worst aspects of the problems.  If you are captain of a military force, and you're facing a military force entrenched on a brushy hill who have machine gun nests - you'd probably be smart to aim to disable the machine guns first.

I can offer many suggestions toward a solution.  Read my posts.

Here's where Americans can start:

>>>  ban auto and semi-automatic weapons

>>>  ban bump stocks and other conversions which render single shot weapons in to auto-.

>>>  ban military grade ammo. Same for hollow-point ammo.    Note: the weapon the FL HS shooter used can turn a 5 inch diameter of thigh bone into powder at 100 yards.  It's a war-weapon. 

 

Ordinary or deranged citizens don't need war-weapons.  there are no reasons why they should be allowed to have them, any more than ordinary citizens should be allowed bazookas, chemical weapons, bio-weapons, hand-grenades or AA weapons.  There has to be a line drawn. 

 

If there was a nationwide vote on the 3 items mentioned above, the ayes would win, probably by 80 to 20%.   Politicians and the NRA know that, and that's why they're scared shitless of grassroots protests against the gun insanity which has infected the US.  NRA is so spooked, they're teaming up with the Russians to get ever-more military grade weapons saturated all over the US.   The Russians want a weakened USA.  What better way, than to assist the NRA?  

 

6 hours ago, impulse said:

Australia did what, exactly?  How many mass shootings per year did they have before, and after they did "it"?  What was the total crime rate before and after they did "it"?  How has that crime rate trended since then? They may have taken people's guns away, but did the people gain any personal safety in return for giving up that personal freedom?

You ask 5 questions, but you don't answer any of them.  You may know the answers, but that doesn't mean everyone knows the answers.  Clue us in.  What's your point?

[UncleTouchyFingers]

6 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Someone else who believes that because the police wear uniforms and carry guns, and ex military members once wore uniforms and carried guns, that the jobs are essentially the same. I think it takes seriously defective reasoning to  believe that.

 

Thats certainly your opinion, and you're more than welcome to it. 

 

The other option is to do nothing in regards to actually protecting the kids in school itself, and I think it takes some seriously defective reasoning to believe that is the best way forward in the short term. 

[bandito]

On 4/21/2018 at 6:02 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

 

If there were mass shootings in my country at the level there is in the US, I would want the leaders to take action to prevent them. It is both shocking and stupifying that there is so much resistance to actions designed to prevent children from being shot and killed.

 

Gun rights people often say "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

 

This is mistaken. The truth is "People with guns kill people."

 

A truly civilized country would bend over backwards to lessen/stop mass shootings of children.

 

 

Guns are manufactured with only one thing able to do and that is killing people and other living things.  Sick people who are defending their so called right to bear guns.

[lannarebirth]

21 hours ago, mike324 said:

Founding documents of the republic were made due to the circumstances during that time.

It's not quite as easy as that. The "founding documents" were derived from what is known as Natural Law. The Bill of Rights almost did not come into being because at the time it was thought that the rights that were being protected were so obvious as to not need to be even committed to paper parchment. Unalienable, as it were, simply from being a human being.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

3 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

It's not quite as easy as that. The "founding documents" were derived from what is known as Natural Law. The Bill of Rights almost did not come into being because at the time it was thought that the rights that were being protected were so obvious as to not need to be even committed to paper parchment. Unalienable, as it were, simply from being a human being.

 

Think what you want about gun control, but the "founding documents" are the real reason why guns are so prevalent in the USA, and why its so hard (thank god) to legislate against them. 

 

Its not the NRA's fault, and its not "the rednecks" fault. Its a matter just as serious as who can vote, or what you can write, what you can say, what religion you want to preach. The Second Amendment is very serious business and is meant, clearly, as an equalizer for all men. 

 

Going against the Second Amendment is no different than going after certain voting demographics or religions.  

 

To me it boggles the mind that some people are soooo willing to give up the right to protect themselves under the guise of the ever-protecting government. 

[stevenl]

21 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Think what you want about gun control, but the "founding documents" are the real reason why guns are so prevalent in the USA, and why its so hard (thank god) to legislate against them. 

 

Its not the NRA's fault, and its not "the rednecks" fault. Its a matter just as serious as who can vote, or what you can write, what you can say, what religion you want to preach. The Second Amendment is very serious business and is meant, clearly, as an equalizer for all men. 

 

Going against the Second Amendment is no different than going after certain voting demographics or religions.  

 

To me it boggles the mind that some people are soooo willing to give up the right to protect themselves under the guise of the ever-protecting government. 

It boggles my mind how you can make that comparison.