Pilots Fear For Safety

[peter991]

Pilots fear for safety at Thai airport

Saturday Jan 27 15:30 AEDT

Airline pilots have expressed fears for the safety of aircraft landing at Bangkok's new airport following a decision by Thailand's aviation authority not to renew its international safety certificate.

The Department of Civil Aviation (DCA) decided on Friday not to renew the interim Aerodrome Certificate for the Suvarnabhumi Airport in the latest setback for Thailand's brand new international gateway.

The certificate, which shows an airport meets international safety requirements, expired on Thursday.

DCA officials said they had received calls from international pilots expressing concern over the department's decision to leave Suvarnabhumi in a certification "no man's land".

One senior Thai captain told The Nation newspaper the lack of certification would affect confidence in the international pilot community about the safety of Thailand's new airport.

"If I were a foreign pilot, how could I trust that I would be given the right instructions when I had to fly in and out of an airport without international recognition?" he said.

"And I would be particularly concerned if I had to deal with disruptive weather or other emergencies. I don't know who has to bear responsibility in the event a wrong decision is made."

Department director-general Chaisak Angsuwan also revealed the airport's eastern runway would have to be closed for four to five hours on Saturday, citing cracks on runways and taxiways over a wide area of the airfield.

Chaisak said this would force partial closure of the airport for repair work for some weeks, but some local commentators estimate the repairs could take well over a year.

"We also found management problems," Chaisak said.

"For example, the aerodrome operation manual that provides instruction for airport maintenance and accidents still contains incorrect information, which could cause confusion for operators, especially in case of emergencies."

However, Chaisak said the lack of an Aerodrome Certificate would not lead to the airport's closure because Suvarnabhumi is operated under a local licence, just like other airports in Thailand.

The Aerodrome Certificate is a recent attempt by the UN International Civil Aviation Organisation to standardise airport operations around the world, but Thailand has not yet issued a law to respond to this new requirement.

No airport in Thailand has been certified, although eight in neighbouring Malaysia have obtained the certificates, as well as two in Singapore, two in the Philippines and one in Hong Kong.

Eight in South Korea, one in North Korea and 93 in Japan have also been certified.

Chaisak said the interim certificate issued by his agency to Suvarnabhumi six months ago in response to the rush to open the airport for domestic flights in July, and the official opening in September, had no legal foundation.

"We are updating our legal system for aviation, hopefully this year," he said. "Until then, Airports of Thailand [operator of Suvarnabhumi] has time to improve the airport and we can start the certification process anew."

Source: news.com.au 27Jan2007

[Mid]

[OlRedEyes]

The fun never stops. Now there's a better TAT slogan.

[taxexile]

the pilots are not the only ones inconvenienced.

passenger facilities could do with an upgrade too

some interesting comments here

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=260963

[bino]

The following is currently on CNN website.

Great picture- hole looks to be about the right size for a 747 nosewheel!

Bangkok airport officially unsafe

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) -- Aviation authorities have refused to extend an international safety certificate for Bangkok's new international airport, a senior official said Saturday, dealing another blow to the problem-plagued facility.

With runway and tarmac repairs at Suvarnabhumi airport still under way, the Department of Civil Aviation decided Friday not to renew its interim safety certificate, which expired a day earlier. The airport can, however, continue to operate without the license.

Somchai Sawasdeepon, the airport's general manager, said the airport also has yet to set up a safety committee as required by the International Civil Aviation Organization because authorities are "busy resolving others problems."

The issue will be discussed at the next board meeting, Somchai said, adding that he was confident the certificate will be renewed after the safety committee has been established.

Local newspapers have reported that some foreign pilots raised concerns about safety issues at the Suvarnabhumi, but Somchai said such fears were not voiced at a meeting of airline representatives on Friday.

The International Civil Aviation Organization has made it a requirement for international airports to hold an Aerodrome Certificate -- aimed at standardizing global airport operations. Suvarnabhumi can nonetheless continue to operate without the certificate because it has yet to incorporate that requirement into law.

The airport was enmeshed in one corruption scandal after another during its construction, and since its opening last September problems have surfaced ranging from an inadequate number of toilets to cracks on taxiways leading to the runway. Probes are being carried out into a number of corrupt deals related to the facility.

On Thursday, several incoming flights were diverted to another airport about 200 kilometers (125 miles) away after debris was found on a runway.

The discovery of taxiway cracks, which began appearing about two weeks after the airport opened, was made public last week by lawmakers inspecting the airport.

Cracks at 25 separate locations made it impossible to use 11 out of 51 air bridges for boarding aircraft, causing inconvenience to passengers who had to take buses to and from their planes, Transport Minister Thira Hao-Charoen said Thursday after an inspection visit.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press.

[Vespa]

Somchai

:D

[britmaveric]

Imagine coming in for a landing and you touch down in a weak spot that literally caves in and a landing gear gets stuck in this mess.

[STEELINOX]

I used this facility 4 times in the beginning of January- and have to say "Whew- glad my stars were all aligned !" I hope this situation improves because it is a "work in progress" and can see that in the end it could be a diamond in their hat if they could just get the right people in place.

I was annoyed (briefly) on one landing where we sat on the taxiway waiting for a gate assignment or other nonsense like taxi-hurdling jumbos; but if this thing actually worked like a swiss watch, it would be fabulous.

The thing should be shut down for repair and the governement should pay for everyone to move back to DM and they should be penalized for "overthrowing Taxin" and not postponing the opening of the place !

Thanks,

Randy

[IMA_FARANG]

The following is currently on CNN website.

Great picture- hole looks to be about the right size for a 747 nosewheel!

Bangkok airport officially unsafe

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) -- Aviation authorities have refused to extend an international safety certificate for Bangkok's new international airport, a senior official said Saturday, dealing another blow to the problem-plagued facility.

With runway and tarmac repairs at Suvarnabhumi airport still under way, the Department of Civil Aviation decided Friday not to renew its interim safety certificate, which expired a day earlier. The airport can, however, continue to operate without the license.

Somchai Sawasdeepon, the airport's general manager, said the airport also has yet to set up a safety committee as required by the International Civil Aviation Organization because authorities are "busy resolving others problems."

The issue will be discussed at the next board meeting, Somchai said, adding that he was confident the certificate will be renewed after the safety committee has been established.

Local newspapers have reported that some foreign pilots raised concerns about safety issues at the Suvarnabhumi, but Somchai said such fears were not voiced at a meeting of airline representatives on Friday.

The International Civil Aviation Organization has made it a requirement for international airports to hold an Aerodrome Certificate -- aimed at standardizing global airport operations. Suvarnabhumi can nonetheless continue to operate without the certificate because it has yet to incorporate that requirement into law.

The airport was enmeshed in one corruption scandal after another during its construction, and since its opening last September problems have surfaced ranging from an inadequate number of toilets to cracks on taxiways leading to the runway. Probes are being carried out into a number of corrupt deals related to the facility.

On Thursday, several incoming flights were diverted to another airport about 200 kilometers (125 miles) away after debris was found on a runway.

The discovery of taxiway cracks, which began appearing about two weeks after the airport opened, was made public last week by lawmakers inspecting the airport.

Cracks at 25 separate locations made it impossible to use 11 out of 51 air bridges for boarding aircraft, causing inconvenience to passengers who had to take buses to and from their planes, Transport Minister Thira Hao-Charoen said Thursday after an inspection visit.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press.

I was just reading that. Glad you posted it here.

I can't get a reading on the actual size of that "crack" from that photo on-line.

It doesn't look to me,however, like a "crack" in the runway. It looks to me like a ***** HOLE that could easily tear the nose wheel right off a 777.

If that's the case it isn't just a small problem it is a disaster waiting to happen.

Can anybody get a photo of the "cracks" in the runway and post it here with some object next to it so we can see the actual size and make a unbiased judgement of the problem for ourselves?

I realise the airport security probably wouldn't be too happy about people taking photos.

[endure]

The following is currently on CNN website.

Great picture- hole looks to be about the right size for a 747 nosewheel!

Bangkok airport officially unsafe

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) -- Aviation authorities have refused to extend an international safety certificate for Bangkok's new international airport, a senior official said Saturday, dealing another blow to the problem-plagued facility.

With runway and tarmac repairs at Suvarnabhumi airport still under way, the Department of Civil Aviation decided Friday not to renew its interim safety certificate, which expired a day earlier. The airport can, however, continue to operate without the license.

Somchai Sawasdeepon, the airport's general manager, said the airport also has yet to set up a safety committee as required by the International Civil Aviation Organization because authorities are "busy resolving others problems."

The issue will be discussed at the next board meeting, Somchai said, adding that he was confident the certificate will be renewed after the safety committee has been established.

Local newspapers have reported that some foreign pilots raised concerns about safety issues at the Suvarnabhumi, but Somchai said such fears were not voiced at a meeting of airline representatives on Friday.

The International Civil Aviation Organization has made it a requirement for international airports to hold an Aerodrome Certificate -- aimed at standardizing global airport operations. Suvarnabhumi can nonetheless continue to operate without the certificate because it has yet to incorporate that requirement into law.

The airport was enmeshed in one corruption scandal after another during its construction, and since its opening last September problems have surfaced ranging from an inadequate number of toilets to cracks on taxiways leading to the runway. Probes are being carried out into a number of corrupt deals related to the facility.

On Thursday, several incoming flights were diverted to another airport about 200 kilometers (125 miles) away after debris was found on a runway.

The discovery of taxiway cracks, which began appearing about two weeks after the airport opened, was made public last week by lawmakers inspecting the airport.

Cracks at 25 separate locations made it impossible to use 11 out of 51 air bridges for boarding aircraft, causing inconvenience to passengers who had to take buses to and from their planes, Transport Minister Thira Hao-Charoen said Thursday after an inspection visit.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press.

I was just reading that. Glad you posted it here.

I can't get a reading on the actual size of that "crack" from that photo on-line.

It doesn't look to me,however, like a "crack" in the runway. It looks to me like a ***** HOLE that could easily tear the nose wheel right off a 777.

If that's the case it isn't just a small problem it is a disaster waiting to happen.

Can anybody get a photo of the "cracks" in the runway and post it here with some object next to it so we can see the actual size and make a unbiased judgement of the problem for ourselves?

I realise the airport security probably wouldn't be too happy about people taking photos.

It looks more like a hole that has been prepared for restorative work. How many naturally occurring holes have parallel sides and 90 degree corners with marked edges?

[Jamie]

So have they figured out what the problem is? Is it poor batches of concrete or improper bed preparation?

[cdnvic]

If it's the underlying ground that wasn't prepared properly there's nothing that can be done short of demolishing and replacing the whole runway. I've seen so many shortcuts done on construction projects in Thailand that this doesn't really surprise me.

[britmaveric]

Have to agree - not alot one can do with fked up concrete, apart from starting over again. Its only going to get worse.

[The Skipper]

A year ago, a Pilot friend of mine stated the runways were being laid improperly.

Somthing about not being thick enough and the budget lining sombodys pocket.

[Jamie]

They'll probably have to go back to the old airport by the sounds of it. Sounds like a highway they put in here. The concrete was mixed improperly and the DOT engineers failed to have the mix tested before laying it down. They are now looking at ripping out miles of road.

[jumnien]

My prediction - No move back to Don Muang for the majority of commercial flights, major problems fixed within a year, within 3 years the airport will be pretty good and everyone will be posting regarding the ongoing corruption investigation of the junta regime.

[Pink Mist]

Isn't it ironic, they have an abundance of civil engineers in LOS (in fact its an industry where employment is forbidden for falang) that, for whatever reason they can't get it right.

[cdnvic]

I think they'll try to make the second runway in a hurry so it can be used while they tear this one up.

[Artisi]

Seems the runway is no different than the roads they build in Thailand- you can assume that the original engineering is correct - there is plenty of references in the engineering text book and it's not that big of a problem to design a road base / runway base and apply sufficient asphalt or concrete on top.

The problem stems for corruption - lay half or less of the base material and topping - put the balance in your pocket and lay low after the job is finshed - no one will come looking for you anyway to make recification as this is not the Thai way.

How many roads have you seem fall apart within months of being finished - but who cares, the ones in charge does because they're in on the scam anyway - just keep patching it for the next 5 years until we can organise more budget to rip-off to rebuild the road once again

[jumnien]

I'm sure there are problems with the runways and taxiways at the new airport. I'm also sure there are strategic political reasons to exagerate them in the last days of a dying junta. I think those imagining 747's bursting in flames later this week should remember that there have been somewhere between 50,000 and 100,000 large jet landings and takeoffs without incident so far.

[dee123]

....go back to Don Muang?....never....too dangerous...too many golf balls flying around!!!

[Mid]

maths not a strong point ??

[PeaceBlondie]

Now that the new airport doesn't even have a make-pretend license to operate, what would happen if one or more major airlines just cancelled all their flights?

[Axel]

Would be a very good idea, but it won't happen. Even thinking about, evry carrier would wait to see what the others are doing, thinking of losing business.

[mark lamai]

crikey... thats so unsafe!

who forgot the put down the tree branches?

[sbk]

crikey... thats so unsafe!

who forgot the put down the tree branches?

OK, you got me on that one mark, if it weren't so scary it would be quite funny

[Dakhar]

crikey... thats so unsafe!

who forgot the put down the tree branches?

Nominated for post of the year.

That was good stuff!

Oh and yes, granted there have many flights & landings thus far, but that is the problem. The force is compounding over time, the damage is showing up.

I flew in today, and to be honest I have never felt a plane hit the reverse/brakes so hard in my life. You reall had to be belted in, otherwise you would have been hurled out of your seat. I was fun actually, but it made me wonder if the pilots are over shooting a little in order to hit some fresh pavement?

But whats the worry, soon Thailand will have developed the first jump jet commercial aircraft, right?

[jumnien]

Actually, the erratic manner of the landing has nothing to do with the condition of the runway. It is the new AOT/TAT policy to prepare first time visitors for the harrowing taxi ride into Bangkok at 140kph!

[Mid]

it made me wonder if the pilots are over shooting a little in order to hit some fresh pavement?

what's too wonder ??

[aussiestyle1983]

Seems like the rest of the un-pocketed money went into building the "world's tallest control tower" rather than making sure that the areas where accidents could most likely occure were safe.

At least the Thais will always have their new control tower to look at should the airport be closed