Tourist police crackdown on "international schools" employing illegal foreign teachers

[Chrisdoc]

No idea how much you know about the educational system in Thailand. Most government, primary, and secondary schools have their midterm break.
 
  

No idea how much you know about the educational system in Thailand. All government, primary, and secondary only have summer school because Songkran (New Year) was a few weeks ago and the new school year starts in a few weeks.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jonstarjon]

21 hours ago, Get Real said:

What? So, you mean that if the school is convincing and is lying enough good to you, then it´s your duty to fall for that and forget everything you thought you knew about laws in the country you are starting to work in?

Sounds like you will need to live life in a way where facts are more important than what somebody tells you just to keep you.

Not sure what you mean... Did you go to an international school??

[Get Real]

1 hour ago, jonstarjon said:

Not sure what you mean... Did you go to an international school??

If I went to an international school?? How is that even remotely relevant? Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

[brewsterbudgen]

Its his choice what school to send his children to.  
 
I also would consider the international schools here the worst place to send my children.. and it's nothing to do with cost.
 
Your comment is just snobbery.  You think international school are better as they cost more?
 
They are not better in many cases, marketing to parents with more money than sense and pushing their 'high so' ways.  I know many teachers at such schools.. they are drunks, druggies and wasters.. with low morals and no care for their job or the children.  I would hate my children to be even around them, let alone taught by them.
 
I would not want my children to attend these schools.  My kids would be mixing with spoilt brats, start speaking with an annoying high pitched American winy accent, get into trouble with smoking, drugs, bad behaviour, bullying.. all rampant in such schools.  Many of these schools also sneak in their Christian religion and prayers to brainwash the children.  
 
The local Thai schools are much nicer in my area.  Children are respectful, well mannered, well socialised, my children could speak Thai and English (not American English only).  I don't have to get up at 5 am to travel long distances stuck in traffic to get to the school.  The kids can walk to their school or its just a 10 minute drive from the house.  The children have more free time before and after school to play and be kids.
 
The international schools are just one other way to isolate your family form Thai society.. the country you are living in.. but won't integrate into.
 
I bet after picking the children up from their overpriced International school you then drive them to the overprices American supermarket to buy Farang food, then off too McDonalds.. maybe catch a farang Movie and the shopping mall.  Why some people live here is a mystery to me.   
 
 
 
 

What about non-Thai kids? You must have a limited knowledge of experience of International Schools.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[lemonjelly]

Love it when members here award themselves the moniker of “Ajarn” and then post rants, made almost unreadable through crappy grammar usage,  about tourists not being “real teachers”..... lol

Edited April 28, 2018 by lemonjelly

[jak2002003]

44 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

What about non-Thai kids? You must have a limited knowledge of experience of International Schools.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

What about non - Thai Kids?  They must be in the minority... sure send them to whatever school you feel appropriate for them.  I don't really know whey none Thai children would be here in the first place to live long term, unless they belong to  some American missionary freak family hell bend on destroying Thai culture and Buddhism.

 

I was responding the a poster who is mocking someone for not sending their children to an international school.... as they are 'sorry you can't afford to send your children to an international school.  No one should think they are superior to someone else just because they choose to send their kids to an international school, rather than a Thai school.  

 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

What about non - Thai Kids?  They must be in the minority... sure send them to whatever school you feel appropriate for them.  I don't really know whey none Thai children would be here in the first place to live long term, unless they belong to  some American missionary freak family hell bend on destroying Thai culture and Buddhism.
 
I was responding the a poster who is mocking someone for not sending their children to an international school.... as they are 'sorry you can't afford to send your children to an international school.  No one should think they are superior to someone else just because they choose to send their kids to an international school, rather than a Thai school.  
 
 

Plenty of working expats with families here; not everyone marries Thai women.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JAG]

4 hours ago, Chrisdoc said:

No idea how much you know about the educational system in Thailand. All government, primary, and secondary only have summer school because Songkran (New Year) was a few weeks ago and the new school year starts in a few weeks.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

As far as I am aware the "Summer Schools" run from a week or so after the end of the semester (mid-March) up until Songkran. The schools are closed between Songkran and early May.

[jak2002003]

13 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Plenty of working expats with families here; not everyone marries Thai women.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I think they are in and extreme minority.  Is that your situation?  I have mostly seen half Thai / Farang children.. and family where there is a farang male and Thai woman.  

 

Maybe different in Bangkok?  I genuinely would be interested in the stats. there.  

 

Not asking you to look it up though.. don't worry!  

 

I might do some research.

 

And, other posters, I have plenty of experience with international schools here in Chiang Mai, including having many friends who send their children to them.. and also I know about 10 teachers from these schools.  Some are excellent (but should probably have retired years ago), but the majority would be fired from being a teacher in the UK with their behaviour and teaching standards.  

 

 

 

 

[saakura]

4 hours ago, Chrisdoc said:

 I live in a small town close to a major centre and only 5 people I know seem to be able to talk English- 3 ex taxi drivers, an ex-hooker and a monk.

The taxi drivers & prostitue i can understand, but i am intrigued by the english speaking monk. Maybe he is a hiso criminal doing the 3 month monk stint to get off the hook? Or a Pattaya ladyboy in disguise?

[boomerangutang]

On the other side of the issue, Thai authorities should make it easier for Thai students to learn English.  The current rules make it difficult, because it's difficult for native English speakers to get teaching jobs in Thailand.  The Thai folks who hire at schools, hire on the basis of paper degree(s) and how young and attractive the applicant is.  It's easy to get a fake degree.   Even people with real degrees aren't necessarily better at teaching English than those who don't have degrees.

 

I've met dozens of Europeans and Philippinos who have good jobs (Chulagong U, etc) teaching English, yet they speak English badly and/or their accents are awful.  How a person engages a class full of students is also a factor, ....and is something that a degree can't improve or teach.

 

Aristotle was Alexander The Great's teacher.  Did Aristotle have a college degree?  No.  But he was a mighty fine teacher.  

 

The Thai staff, in charge of hiring at U's and schools, don't have a clue who is effective when it comes to teaching English.   That's one of several reasons why Thais score abysmally on English comprehension - compared to youngsters from regional countries.  

 

Heck, more that half of immigration kiosks at both Bkk airports are un-manned.  My theory is: they can't find enough Thai (who want to do that job) who can speak basic English.  Well, that's half the reason.  The other reasons are:  bad management, and not caring that 1,200 people will be forced to wait between 1 and 2  hours (after traveling for long periods) while waiting for service.

[Bill Miller]

On 4/27/2018 at 2:35 PM, jonstarjon said:

It's War-torn. Just sayin'

That is how it was written in the article quoted. I should have corrected it, eh? 

[jenny2017]

1 hour ago, boomerangutang said:

On the other side of the issue, Thai authorities should make it easier for Thai students to learn English.  The current rules make it difficult, because it's difficult for native English speakers to get teaching jobs in Thailand.  The Thai folks who hire at schools, hire on the basis of paper degree(s) and how young and attractive the applicant is.  It's easy to get a fake degree.   Even people with real degrees aren't necessarily better at teaching English than those who don't have degrees.

 

I've met dozens of Europeans and Philippinos who have good jobs (Chulagong U, etc) teaching English, yet they speak English badly and/or their accents are awful.  How a person engages a class full of students is also a factor, ....and is something that a degree can't improve or teach.

 

Aristotle was Alexander The Great's teacher.  Did Aristotle have a college degree?  No.  But he was a mighty fine teacher.  

 

The Thai staff, in charge of hiring at U's and schools, don't have a clue who is effective when it comes to teaching English.   That's one of several reasons why Thais score abysmally on English comprehension - compared to youngsters from regional countries.  

 

Heck, more that half of immigration kiosks at both Bkk airports are un-manned.  My theory is: they can't find enough Thai (who want to do that job) who can speak basic English.  Well, that's half the reason.  The other reasons are:  bad management, and not caring that 1,200 people will be forced to wait between 1 and 2  hours (after traveling for long periods) while waiting for service.

 It's easy to get a fake degree. Even people with real degrees aren't necessarily better at teaching English than those who don't have degrees.

 

   It might be easy to get a fake degree, but the school's responsibility is to check on it, and I assume that the TCT does some checks as well. 

 

The university has to be on the TCT's list and now they also want to see transcripts. I don't think transcripts are easy to fake.

 

   Of course does a degree in engineering not make the person to a good English teacher, but it shows a level of higher education.

 

   After two waivers, you've got to have a degree, or a diploma in education to be able to continue, or to receive the license. 

   

[Rimkok]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

I think they are in and extreme minority.  Is that your situation?  I have mostly seen half Thai / Farang children.. and family where there is a farang male and Thai woman.  

 

Maybe different in Bangkok?  I genuinely would be interested in the stats. there.  

 

Not asking you to look it up though.. don't worry!  

 

I might do some research.

 

And, other posters, I have plenty of experience with international schools here in Chiang Mai, including having many friends who send their children to them.. and also I know about 10 teachers from these schools.  Some are excellent (but should probably have retired years ago), but the majority would be fired from being a teacher in the UK with their behaviour and teaching standards.  

 

 

 

 

Bottom line is International Schools are your best option.

 

Thai schools for the most part are rubbish. I won't even bother going into that.

 

Yes there are a few chancers masquerading as teachers in International Schools but the majority I have met are good teachers, well qualified and well motivated.

 

I say this from experience having a combined 20 years in International Schools between my children. This includes 3 International Schools.

 

It all depends on what you want and what you can afford.

 

My kids go to a mid priced International school. If I could afford it I would send them to a better School but I can't and there is no shame in that. You get what you pay for. This can be quantified, take a look at the results/university placements on their websites.

 

I am yet to hear of anybody who has their Children in a Thai school say I wish I could afford to send them to an International School. They tend to justify it by slagging off International Schools.

 

The other misconception is that all the parents of these kids are loaded. Nothing could be further from the truth. Many spend nearly all there spare money on schooling and run up debts. 

 

On the other hand I know people who are better off than me that choose to send their kids to Bilingual schools that cost a third of the price. They prefer to spend excess cash on beer, cars and travel. etc.

 

Each to their own!

[mommysboy]

45 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

 It's easy to get a fake degree. Even people with real degrees aren't necessarily better at teaching English than those who don't have degrees.

 

   It might be easy to get a fake degree, but the school's responsibility is to check on it, and I assume that the TCT does some checks as well. 

 

The university has to be on the TCT's list and now they also want to see transcripts. I don't think transcripts are easy to fake.

 

   Of course does a degree in engineering not make the person to a good English teacher, but it shows a level of higher education.

 

   After two waivers, you've got to have a degree, or a diploma in education to be able to continue, or to receive the license. 

   

   The career TEFL teachers can't or don't want to teach in Thailand, because of the hoops that you have to jump through in return for a very poor deal, especially relative to what is available elsewhere.  Career TEFL teachers were first dispensed with around the turn of the century, when TEFL teachers were required to have a degree as well as a teaching qualification, hitherto a TEFL certificate plus experience was enough, as it still is in most countries.  And recently teachers have been limited to a few years of teaching before they fall foul of licensing rules which require advanced teaching qualifications.  It goes without saying that teachers with QTS, or an MA in Education, simply won't sell themselves short by working in a Thai school.

   Even so, the agencies had been able to tap in to a stream of teachers who were just passing through- they had a white face, could speak English, and were mostly experienced or qualified.  Often this type could fill the breach for a few weeks or months.  Yet the successive tightening of rules has led to even these hardy souls fighting shy of Thailand, after all they can get as much twice as much by going to Myanamar, and the students tend to be better; I'm sorry to say.

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by mommysboy

[the guest]

I would use the term 'Teacher' very loosely. Most do not have a degree, let alone the competence to teach Thai citizens, and quite often are not native English-speaking foreigners. 

 

English in Thailand is still sub-standard. Perhaps investing in fully-qualified professionals, who have undergone stringent background checks would benefit the country and indeed it's population. 

[mommysboy]

6 minutes ago, the guest said:

I would use the term 'Teacher' very loosely. Most do not have a degree, let alone the competence to teach Thai citizens, and quite often are not native English-speaking foreigners. 

 

English in Thailand is still sub-standard. Perhaps investing in fully-qualified professionals, who have undergone stringent background checks would benefit the country and indeed it's population. 

That's simply not true: most will have a degree, and the majority a degree, plus a qualification that allows them to teach English as a foreign language. A teacher of English as a foreign language (TEFL teacher) is not to be confused with a teacher with Qualified Teacher Status (QTS), but he does have industry standard certification.

[jenny2017]

7 hours ago, Chrisdoc said:

No idea how much you know about the educational system in Thailand. All government, primary, and secondary only have summer school because Songkran (New Year) was a few weeks ago and the new school year starts in a few weeks.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Don't you think that working at Thai schools for 13 years gives me a sort of an idea? The  new academic year starts on the 14th of May.

 

If Big Joke & friends show up at schools end of May, or in June, there'll be a totally different number of illegal employees. 

[jenny2017]

20 minutes ago, the guest said:

I would use the term 'Teacher' very loosely. Most do not have a degree, let alone the competence to teach Thai citizens, and quite often are not native English-speaking foreigners. 

 

English in Thailand is still sub-standard. Perhaps investing in fully-qualified professionals, who have undergone stringent background checks would benefit the country and indeed it's population. 

Being an English teacher in Thailand is not just about a good command in spoken and written English. There's a lot more behind, psychological education, knowledge about adolescence, technology used in teaching, the ability to use an intelligent board, and a few more things.  

 

   It's truly amazing how many NES teachers seem to have a problem with easy English, for example the use of they- their- they are- there- theirs.

[mommysboy]

33 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

Don't you think that working at Thai schools for 13 years gives me a sort of an idea? The  new academic year starts on the 14th of May.

 

If Big Joke & friends show up at schools end of May, or in June, there'll be a totally different number of illegal employees. 

What do you think he will find?

[Chrisdoc]

The taxi drivers & prostitue i can understand, but i am intrigued by the english speaking monk. Maybe he is a hiso criminal doing the 3 month monk stint to get off the hook? Or a Pattaya ladyboy in disguise?

I was sus of him so now you have hit the truth. I'd say must be the latter pre-op.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jenny2017]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

What do you think he will find?

Considering that various agencies do not have enough teachers who qualify to receive the right type of visa and/or a work permit, there'll be some changes.

 

    But their contingent of teachers usually consists of some people who do not have a degree, no chance to have a Non immigrant visa, and that will create huge problems when schools have signed contracts with agencies.

 

If they can't deliver, they'll have to send teachers without the needed qualifications and should the labor department, Immigration and TP raid bigger schools, they''ll always find somebody. 

 

Agencies who don't follow the law will receive a hefty fine per person, so there must be changes. Just wait and see. 

 

  If the hunt continues, they'll find quite a lot of people who'll be deported. But there are some ways to study for a BA in education, or an upgrade of an existing BA, a Diploma in teacher education.

 

 These institutions agree to monthly installments, so even if it's a pain in the butt, at least signing up for such a course might be enough to receive a waiver letter and be legal.   

[Chrisdoc]

As far as I am aware the "Summer Schools" run from a week or so after the end of the semester (mid-March) up until Songkran. The schools are closed between Songkran and early May.

The new school year starts on 17th of May.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Chrisdoc]

Don't you think that working at Thai schools for 13 years gives me a sort of an idea? The  new academic year starts on the 14th of May.
 
If Big Joke & friends show up at schools end of May, or in June, there'll be a totally different number of illegal employees. 

You did say mid-term break.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Chrisdoc said:

The new school year starts on 17th of May.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The summer school (summer camp) will typically run through April, but may vary.  Yes, it will be closed for Songkran.

 

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, jenny2017 said:

Considering that various agencies do not have enough teachers who qualify to receive the right type of visa and/or a work permit, there'll be some changes.

 

    But their contingent of teachers usually consists of some people who do not have a degree, no chance to have a Non immigrant visa, and that will create huge problems when schools have signed contracts with agencies.

 

If they can't deliver, they'll have to send teachers without the needed qualifications and should the labor department, Immigration and TP raid bigger schools, they''ll always find somebody. 

 

Agencies who don't follow the law will receive a hefty fine per person, so there must be changes. Just wait and see. 

 

  If the hunt continues, they'll find quite a lot of people who'll be deported. But there are some ways to study for a BA in education, or an upgrade of an existing BA, a Diploma in teacher education.

 

 These institutions agree to monthly installments, so even if it's a pain in the butt, at least signing up for such a course might be enough to receive a waiver letter and be legal.   

 

That's almost exactly how I see it.  I don't see any agencies even daring to send teachers who can not qualify for a work permit, and I'm sure that will create a substantial shortfall in teacher numbers. The staff room may see increasing numbers of Filipinos, but even then these people will not be so easy to find.

[Myran]

On 4/27/2018 at 11:14 AM, shady86 said:

Big joke. Why not review the visa and work permit applications to make them easier instead of focusing on illegal teachers. Most foreigners on visa and working here needs to waste at least 2 or 3 days of their lives every year for these applications.

Why would he do that? He's a police, not an immigration or labor official.

[gk10002000]

Over the years I have talked to a few teachers, before the recent years crackdown and scrutiny on visas.  One girl from the USA was sitting next to me on the van as we were making a visa run to Poi Pet.  She was quite motivated and loved working with the Thai kids and teaching them English.   Sadly, it sounds like the school avenue has been a method exploited and abused by the bad guys as a way to get in to Thailand and stay in Thailand.  The net result is it will hurt the overall teaching effort as cheaper and reasonably well qualified people for the task will not be able to be obtained.

[pearciderman]

11 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

Being an English teacher in Thailand is not just about a good command in spoken and written English. There's a lot more behind, psychological education, knowledge about adolescence, technology used in teaching, the ability to use an intelligent board, and a few more things.  

 

   It's truly amazing how many NES teachers seem to have a problem with easy English, for example the use of they- their- they are- there- theirs.

 

And it is truly amazing how many schools hire non-NES whose English is way under par.

[ozmeldo]

This is fake news despite how much I want to see Africans out of the school system followed swiftly by 90% of the Filipinos and 50% of the NES.

 

This round was conducted at night so unless the perps confessed to working at 'international' schools - how would the cops know? Did they all confess to working? These crafty Africans?

 

I could only surmise that they obtained a list from the schools on demand, then visited them requesting would, visa...

 

Next, it would seem they all live in a general vicinity. Okay, not uncommon, I've heard Filipinos tend to congratulate in areas and buildings as do other ethnic groups. Still, highly suspicious.

 

One thing certain, there should be some criteria for having International in the schools name - even if they are not strictly following such curricula.

 

Filipinos with Ed degree only good to work as Anuban-Kinder teachers. Thailand should have an additional bar for Filipino teachers, it's far too low, they float in here on marginal/fake degrees fully endorsed by their embassy. Filipinos often rail at their low wages, but they accept it and honestly that's what they are worth - local Thai wages. Filipino teachers are the real crime here. Yes, they'd opt for call center jobs, nursing but can't make the grade. Many degrees are fake, schools will doctor faculties and grades for a price. Think of how corrupt Thailand is, the RP is tenfold. Phil's is so corrupt it eats into GDP and actually in/directly impacts every family. Kidnapping is common... KIDNAPPING. Of course these 'teachers' will do most anything to bring in any amount of cash and escape the hell as possible.

Edited April 29, 2018 by ozmeldo