Questions About Qualifications

[kenkannif]

Okay IMO you should be able to convert your Non-imm ED to a Non-imm B (if you have the offer of a work permit) BUT your employer might not be aware of this so they may well tell you to run to get a Non-imm B....also depending on the individual Imm officer you deal with...they also might have other ideas.

But yes in theory I'm pretty sure it's doable, in practice...TiT!!!

[tvango]

Hi, I'm a 29 year old chinese canadian thinking of doing a 6 week tefl course with text & talk academy in bangkok and then teaching+living in asia. My background is in computer engineering and I studied at a well known canadian university (Waterloo), currently work as an i.t/project manager for a business/i.t. consulting firm (started as an programmer analyst then working upwards), i have no teaching experience, I have done technical trainings before and some part time tutoring of highschool students in math, science and accounting.

I am kind of burnt out in my career (i know at an early age!), teaching has been something that i've considered before going into university and thought this would be a good time to try teaching and visiting asia for the first time (never left north america since coming to canada from vietnam when i was 2). I do speak cantonese and vietnamese but pretty useless in thailand i suppose.

I am debt free (thanks to the coop program while in school) and not a big spender so I've saved a bit of money over the years so money is not a big issue versus this newlife experience.

Anyways, I've been reading the thread and there was brief discussion relating to ASIAN native english speaker and english teaching but my specific questions are:

1) What are my realistic prospect for a teaching employment in Thailand/Bangkok? My concern is that I'm asian, i talk like a caucasian on the phone but unfortunately i look asian! Therefore may not be as accepted...

2) Does anyone know of asian foreigners that are english teachers in Thailand?

3) Text & talk tefl course/school - has anyone heard of that or taken course there. any comments about that organization?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Allan

[PeaceBlondie]

Hi, tvango; welcome.

Some Thais are hopelessly racist in their hiring practices, but they're not the majority. Text'n'Talk is well respected (disclosure: I took the course). But emphasizing your Chinese ancestry (versus Vietnamese) would help, I think. That's what my Canadian-Vietnamese boyfriend used to do.

Your IT experience and degree might get you a job teaching IT, at higher wages. It would also let the school director say "Oh, that's our IT teacher, not our English teacher."

Good luck.

[paully]

Allan, it would also help if you look light-skinned, unpleasant though that is to say. I've also come across several Chinese-somethingers teaching in Thailand who seem to do okay. It's certainly a great start if you're debt-free.

Edited September 14, 2006 by paully

[tvango]

I've learned a lot of information on this forum. Thanks PeaceBlondie and Paully for your responses to my questions!

It is interesting that you mentioned that I should emphasize my Chinese ancestry and also your mention of preference to the "light-skinned" candidates... I guess there may be some hope there.

[PeaceBlondie]

Flawless North American pronunciation, over the telephone and in the interview, will help loads. My old coworker Jackie, daughter of univeristy professor in New Mexico, speaks flawless N.A. English. She was hired over the phone by a boss (whose old job Jackie now holds) on her qualifications. When she showed up for the job, the boss just said, "Oh, I didn't know you were Black!!"

Also, one of the positive stereotypes of Asians is that they make good computer geeks (not 'giks').

[Ijustwannateach]

Tvango, ditto what PB & Paully said!

In another thread, a poster wrote:

Hi, all you Thai teaching professionals. I have a Masters degree in Applied Linguistics/Teaching English as a Second Language and a PGCE, teachers' qualification from the UK, and 25 years of teaching experience, mostly at tertiary level. What are my chances of getting a decent job in Thailand at a reputable place, secondary level or tertiary? What sort of salary should I expect. Thanks.

You should read this entire thread. When you do, you will see me reiterate many times that qualifications do not change the kinds of jobs on offer (check out PB's low-salary job thread), only your likelihood of getting any of them.

Having excellent qualifications like yours will give you a few more open doors at the top end after you've worked here a few years and made some connections- but you'll have to pay your dues first. Very few are lucky enough to find and get the best jobs here from the beginning.

[Robski]

Ok how about this, I am english, white, mid thirties. no uni education, 20yrs in a manual trade. I am just about to start the 6 week T&T course in Pattaya. Great I'm looking forward to it,new country, new life. Will I find it difficult? without a doubt, but it's better than banging my head against a wall in Blighty.

What's the worst thing that could happen? I won't get a job, I wont even get started. But maybe I will, maybe with hard work and determination I can get my foot on the ladder, I think it's worth a try, What do you think? If I don't raise the bar too high I won't be dissapointed. Well we shall see, watch this space.

[PeaceBlondie]

With a good, positive attitude like that, Robski, you should do all right. Good luck. You sound like you're being positive, but realistic.

[glenbat]

Hi “Steven” (Ijustwannateach)

Hope you can help, I’m currently looking into ways of getting to the LOS and finding work and have been directed here. I’m a Production Engineer for a large Pharmaceutical Company with 10 years experience behind me (I’m 29). I do not hold a degree but have both ONC and HNC in Mechanical Engineering. I am looking into Engineering positions but also teaching. I understand a TEFL course would be needed.

Would it be difficult for me to find work without a degree? Where am I more likely to find work, in the City or out in the sticks? Living out in the country appeals to me a lot more than BKK, and given the choice I would like to work with younger children as opposed to adults, although I know I am in no position to be picky.

And my Thai isn’t great, in fact its very limited

So far all the odds are stacked against me, is there any hope? And what do you suggest starting off doing?

[Ijustwannateach]

If you want to teach TEFL, you do need a TEFL course, of course. As someone without a degree, you'd do better to stay out in the country in general; though work is less plentiful and less "well"-paid there.

Plenty of jobs teaching children; no problems there with the work supply.

If you make enough contacts here, you may be able to find a job utilising your engineering experience- especially potentially as a go-between or translator for a Thai company trying to do business with local (or even Central Asian/Middle Eastern) nations.

Read through this thread and others on the teaching forum- and good luck!

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Keano asks:

ive got a degree in art's from ireland and was thinking of teaching english in thailand..would there be a lot of offer's or work as a english teacher there and what would the money be like?

thanks

There are an increasing number of art, music, and even physical education positions available in certain EP programs as the more successful ones expand and want to rival their international school equivalents. So don't rule out the EP programs at various schools. It'll be better money than a beginning TEFLer would make, and probably something you'd be more interested in and at which you'd be more naturally talented.

For more info. about TEFL programs, EP programs, and salaries, read the rest of this thread.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Tcarrels asks:

what are the chances of teaching with an incomplete degree? i'm currently doing my fourth year B. Ed Foundation Phase (Primary grades) but due to circumstances and registration hiccups i'll have some subjects to repeat, so technically i won't have my degree in "black and white" - i would prefere to complete by correspondence while i'm working over seas,particularly in thailand. is it possible to still be employed in this situation? and if so what is my best way to find employment - how would i get started??

signed

hopefull

You're in the same boat as everyone else without a completed degree: TEFL and probably best to stay out of Bangkok, average salary 25-30K.

When you get the degree, you'll be in a much better position, but still not good enough for the true-blue internationals without a foreign teacher's license, which you will need to do practice teaching, etc., back home to get. Would recommend you stay home until you've got it.

"Steven"

[bangkokeddy]

Tcarrels asks:

what are the chances of teaching with an incomplete degree? i'm currently doing my fourth year B. Ed Foundation Phase (Primary grades) but due to circumstances and registration hiccups i'll have some subjects to repeat, so technically i won't have my degree in "black and white" - i would prefere to complete by correspondence while i'm working over seas,particularly in thailand. is it possible to still be employed in this situation? and if so what is my best way to find employment - how would i get started??

signed

hopefull

You're in the same boat as everyone else without a completed degree: TEFL and probably best to stay out of Bangkok, average salary 25-30K.

When you get the degree, you'll be in a much better position, but still not good enough for the true-blue internationals without a foreign teacher's license, which you will need to do practice teaching, etc., back home to get. Would recommend you stay home until you've got it.

"Steven"

I would agree. It's generally not possible to complete a BEd or PGCE overseas as a major parts of the degree includes teaching practise in a UK school. Other (non teaching related) degrees may be completed here with help from a Thai University. You can on the also complete a masters here, in TEFL or TESL. Cost about 150,000 up. You may get a discount if you teach at the Uni whilst you study. Best option if you are serious about teaching here long term. A masters in TESl/TEFL may get you a job at a Int. School teaching English as a support teacher, but not all the benefits. You are best finishing and applying for jobs in an Int School overseas, you get a better package than if you are based here. You are also more employable if you have at least one years experience in a UK / Western school before yuo apply. Hold your horses!

[Ijustwannateach]

Dakhar asks:

OK folks,

I have a doctorate degree in a para-medical field. What are the chances that I could teach at an international school? What do you all think the expected pay would be? How many days a week would I be expected to work?

I do have teaching experience, but on a private level for medical equipment companies.

Any imformation would be appreciated.

Thank you

Once again, it's nearly impossible to land a real teaching job at an international school without being a real, licensed, double-stamped, super-duper-sealed, triple-licked teacher.

That means you must have a real, present, CURRENT, Teacher's License from your own home country. As I've previously pointed out, having a degree in education is only part of that qualification- it's not something that would happen to you by accident or life experience.

Some international schools have hired locally to get skills they needed urgently- it is harder to hire here- but under unfavourable (for the employee) and usually temporary conditions.

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

Dakhar, Thailand isn't as picky as some Western employers who might say, "Oh, we don't need a doctorate in medical equipment technology engineering; we need a doctorate in medical equipment applications standards process engineering, preferably one of Professor Glxkyy's students." Thai schools might be equally impressed by a doctorate in Etruscan architecture, to teach Samoan basketweaving. Seriously, I know a Ph.D. in bacteriology who's been unemployed for 15 years because they were only hiring virologists.

Seriously, without knowing what your doctorate is in, and what school you earned it at, and what companies you worked at, and courses you instructed, etc., we don't know if your expertise is valued in Thailand. We don't even know if the Thai labor laws permit you to do that kind of work here (if you do anything more than teach it), or what the demands are. You might get lucky and get a cushy university job at 27K plus private teaching hours.

[Dakhar]

I had an offer from Thammasat U about two years ago, but I turned it down. It was around 36K and they wanted me to spear head the opening of a new degree program. Currently there is only degree program in Thailand in my field of study and they do not offer a doctorate.

I passed up the offer, with no regrets. It would not have been a cush cush job. I would have had to start from zero and build a program. No, 36K would not even make me blink for that type of a challenge.

I do thank you all for your replies.

Edited November 1, 2006 by Dakhar

[smiling Caucasian]

great stuff, just spent the last 2 hours reading these posts.. whew..

my stats:

BA mgmt/acctg from University of California

not fluent in Thai(although I'm slowly learning...), English only

male, 40 years old

Is it possible to earn a Master's degree from a Thai University?

(I saw Ken's comprehensive list of international schools)

If so, how long does it take? full-time, part-time?? total cost?

thank you

[Casanundra]

great stuff, just spent the last 2 hours reading these posts.. whew..

my stats:

BA mgmt/acctg from University of California

not fluent in Thai(although I'm slowly learning...), English only

male, 40 years old

Is it possible to earn a Master's degree from a Thai University?

(I saw Ken's comprehensive list of international schools)

If so, how long does it take? full-time, part-time?? total cost?

thank you

That's an open ended question...

To specifically answer the question of it being possible to do a masters here the answer is simply 'YES' you can and many universities here have international masters programmes taught in English. ABAC and Chula are two that spring to mind.

As for cost, entry requirements, full time and part time etc... well that all depends on what masters you want to do here. If you wanted to join Chula for example then the chances are they will ask for a GRE or GMAT score and may even ask you to sit their CU-TEP entrance exam but this all depends on the course you want to do.

Best thing I can suggest is link to the following and have a look around and see what takes your fancy:

Chula University: http://www.inter.chula.ac.th/inter/interna...dents/frame.htm

ABAC University: http://www.grad.au.edu/prospective.php

Or if you prefer PM me and i'll do my best to help as I am tuned into the universities here.

[smiling Caucasian]

OK, did some research on some of CU's Master's programs.

I didn't realize tuition was so variable...

2 year MBA program almost 1 million baht (not including housing!)

1 year MA in Thai studies is 216,000baht

some of the links were confusing, but I deciphered as much as I could.

thanks again, I'll keep surfing the web for more info

SC

[Ijustwannateach]

Thanks for the links, Casa!

[smiling Caucasian]

Casa, your inbox is full.

my email is

xxxxxxxxxxxx (edited)

if you don't mind answering some more Qs

cheers

///You can send a PM to him-PeaceBlondie///

[Casanundra]

Really?

I think my PM box was switched off hence the full inbox response you got so i've turned it on and that should resolve it.

I'll e-mail you none the less to discuss further.

[mbkudu]

If anyone is interested, Ramkhamhaeng offers international undergraduate and graduate programs.

I'm in the BA English program at the moment and plan to do either the Master's in education admininistration or MA political science; I'll decide later. The instructors are great and the tuition affordable. The university is fully accredited as well. www.iis.ru.ac.th

[Casanundra]

If anyone is interested, Ramkhamhaeng offers international undergraduate and graduate programs.

I'm in the BA English program at the moment and plan to do either the Master's in education admininistration or MA political science; I'll decide later. The instructors are great and the tuition affordable. The university is fully accredited as well. www.iis.ru.ac.th

Does that mean you are wearing the nice uniform that all under graduates get to wear too?

[mbkudu]

If anyone is interested, Ramkhamhaeng offers international undergraduate and graduate programs.

I'm in the BA English program at the moment and plan to do either the Master's in education admininistration or MA political science; I'll decide later. The instructors are great and the tuition affordable. The university is fully accredited as well. www.iis.ru.ac.th

Does that mean you are wearing the nice uniform that all under graduates get to wear too?

Funny you ask. At the lift is says: "Your school uniform makes look young and smart." It's written in English and Thai. This is true, but a guy my age looks siiiiiiiily in a school uniform. Luckily the international section is quite loose with the uniform regulations for both Thais and foreigners.

[lsimpson]

Hello, everyone. I just joined the forum today. I am married to a lovely Thai lady and we are planning to retire in Thailand soon. We live in the United State right now. Although I am 63 years old, I still feel and think young. I am by no means ready to sit in a rocking chair; so am wanting to find some sort of job. I was hoping it might be teaching.

Currently, I "substitute teach" in high schools and middle schools here in the U.S. I also do technical writing as a freelance for engineering magazines. My area of expertise for the writing assignments is computer-based solutions for factory automation and processes. I do not have a teaching certificate. My undergraduate degree was in psychology, and I have a doctorate in law. I was hoping I might be able to teach English or some field that makes use of my skills or academic background.

I have a very broad academic background in mathematics, including analytical geometry and advanced calculus. I am also skilled in computer programming, web development, and computer art and animation. These skills are self-taught, however.

Would any of you know the probability on whether someone like me could possibly find teaching related work with any of this background? I speak conversational level Thai, but I am by no means fluent.

[Ijustwannateach]

Right now is not an auspicious time to start a teaching career in Thailand.

The current confusion over "new qualifications" and "teacher crackdown" in Thailand is beginning to be a bit clearer, but not much.

From information available to me at this point in time, it seems that the new government is retroactively "dequalifying" all teachers from June 2003 onward, even if they have already received their Thai teachers' licenses, if they do not specifically have an Ed. degree to their names. No rhyme or reason at all- they look for the Ed.- if you don't have it, you're hosed and you will be subject to currently unspecified (and from what information is available, at least partly unformulated) "training" courses. This includes persons with masters' degrees or Ph.D's in their fields, who are apparently unqualified to teach their subjects at the high school level.

What is to be done about new hires hasn't been specified. A TEFL doesn't appear to exempt you at this point. When and where and how long and how much any proposed "courses" will be is unclear. One thing is for sure: they will be a boondoggle and complete waste of time when they come out, serving mostly to line the pockets of whichever schools win the fight to be allowed to teach them. That fight alone could take years to finish, during which time the entire teachers' licensing process for foreigners could conceivably go on indefinite hiatus. The courses, furthermore, are unlikely to serve any purpose or be accredited for any reason outside Thailand. Toptuan describes what probably is to come in the "New Requirements" thread in this subforum:

When I first came to Thailand, I was required by the college at which I was employed to endure one 10-hour teacher training session per month (usually Saturdays). Since it was my first year, my Thai languge skills were next to nil. Of course the entire training sessions were in Thai, no one allowed to translate for me (too disruptive), and not allowed to do other work like correcting students' papers (too disrespectful), during the 10-hour lectures. Most other teachers (Thai) SMS'd on their cell phones or slept.

But, by god, I got the certificate at the end of the year. (Which of course I proudly display at my office! My feeble hope is that it means something to somebody who stops by...)

Form but no substance. TIT

I share this simply because it dovetails with a lot of "form-but-no-substance" stuff I see in these new requirements which will simply certificate a teacher but will not make one whit of difference in their ability to function in the classroom.

UNLESS - the mounting stack of "failed" applications, the increasing hysteria of schools and parents, and the question of what to do with thousands of students during this amazingly poorly-handled "transition" period finally provokes some actual thought at level powerful enough to cause the MOE to step back from this harebrained scheme and do something more sensible, like simply beginning for the first time ever to be able to verify degree certificates. This will require an influx of new, highly-paid, well-trained staff, as it seems unlikely that the MOE has anything close to the number of workers qualified enough to accomplish this at the present. Perhaps they could use some of the 500B fees to do this hiring rather than lining the pockets of this week's minister.

An additional question arises of where future teachers will come from, since the influx of foreigners with actual college degrees happy to work for peanuts is not that great, much less those with Ed.'s after those degrees. It is doubtful they will wait another year to study Thai musical instruments to begin their great "careers" here.

If they wish to shoot themselves in the foot this way, these new regulations could spell the end of a number of TEFL groups and EP programs in Thailand very, very quickly.

And if that weren't enough to discourage you, Lsimpson, work permits are restricted for those over the age of 60 and even harder to get than usual, which means the chance you would be working illegally is greater. Doesn't mean you can't do it, but that means it would be much harder to do it legally.

"Steven"

[Storekeeper]

IJWT,

Assuming the MOE follws through with the new requirements then what do you think the answer is for those who still want to reside in Thailand long term and don't have a B.Ed. or M.Ed. ? I would guess the only choice would be to get the right degree online or head on over to Assumption ?

I'm not looking to start a posting fight, but it seems to me many expats would support this very same sort of legislation back in their native countries. Wouldn't they ?

SK

Edited November 28, 2006 by Storekeeper

[Ijustwannateach]

This dog has already been flogged; check out this most recent version of it (we're not going to do it again in this thread, thanks):

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=91224

Currently, the best thing that can be said about the regulations is that they are unclear in regard to your question.

IMHO, if they have any brains, they will allow foreigners with TEFLs to continue doing low-paid TEFL work with kids in rural & suburban schools whether or not they have tertiary educations.

Anyway, see the above thread if you feel the need to put the axe to the grindstone further on that issue.