Questions About Qualifications

[baileys]

Generally women don't retire to Thailand unless they are married, insane or a missionaries.

uhrmm..im not from all of your listings above. but I do like to have a change of "atmosphere"from where I am now and perhaps wiggle my way in LOS.

[elkangorito]

I guess I am lucky.

When I first started teaching in the LOS, it was at a government school in Amphur Klaeng...a bloody awful school. A new Director had just arrived &, due to "loss of face" reasons, he canned the perfectly workable & flourishing bi-lingual program. Stupidity. Many students suffered & many others left.

From there, I moved to a government school in Bangkok. The school had never employed "foreigners" before. I was working with a Philipino & a yank...both of these folks were 'kids' (under 30) & had never had a real job before this, in their lives.

On the other hand, I am a 44 year old engineer (electrical) without a degree. That is, I have been employed as an engineer for 15 years & employed as a Facilities Manager for the last 7 years. I also seem to have a natural affinity with other people, which helps greatly with communication.

In my time at the Bangkok government school, I instituted standard examination practices (I refused to use multiple choice exams) to make things fairer & also used "phonetic styled" (not phonetics or phonemics) instruction, against the wishes of many Thai teachers. The outcome was unprecedented! I gained results that had never before been achieved.

Whilst the other 2 "teachers" (both TEFL qualified & one with an 'English' degree...I do not even have TEFL) were busy playing "games' with the students, my tougher & somewhat more boring approach got results with the students. It didn't take the kids long to realise that they were learning something & that they could actually comprehend the "listening" part of a foreign language. The kids became much more interested in learning & less interested in "playing games". Thai kids are taught English by Thai teachers, who teach this language in Thai. Consequently, it took me 5 minutes to realise that their reading & written abilities were far superior compared to their listening & speaking abilities. Thus the need to go back to basics. Initially, Thai teachers disliked me for this but later saw the necessity.

I deplore the "total fun" concept of teaching. Fun is good if dished out as a reward...not as a total means of teaching.

I guess what I am trying to say is that you do not necessarily need "qualifications" to be a successful English teacher.

I am temporarily back in Australia now but my Thai school has sent me several emails, begging me to come back ASAP, to teach English (not my favourite), Maths (my favourite) & Physics (my intermediate favourite). I will do so in June 2006.

Don't give up hope. If you are "good" with people & have a firm & fair hand, plus a good 'common sense', you can do great good in Thailand. This may well be the first day of the rest of your life!

By the way, the only formal qualifications that I presented to the Thai government was my "Tradesmans Certificate", which proved adequate since it takes 4 years to complete, with both academic & "real" (hands on) job training.

[Ijustwannateach]

Cool success story, thanks for sharing!

[elkangorito]

If there were in the world today any large number of people who desired their own happiness more than they desired the unhappiness of others, we could have paradise in a few years.

-Bertrand Russell

Love the quote IJWT. If only the likes of Bush, Blair & Howard would realise this.

[uberflight]

(here is the thread I was looking for )

I saw some people asking about opportunity based on qualifications. So here goes:

I have taught at a local community college for a couple of years (I have very positive reference from a department head). The subject was illustration. I Have worked in web design and technical illustration with some freelancing (ronweed.com). I have no degree.

I appears from what I have read that English is the primary reason for hiring falang teachers. I have read that other courses are sometimes offered to falang. I have other skills that I could test out on to get certifications (A+ Computer and a Personal Trainers certification). Would that matter?

I assume that I would have to get a TEFL.

Any feedback would be great.

[elkangorito]

(here is the thread I was looking for )

I saw some people asking about opportunity based on qualifications. So here goes:

I have taught at a local community college for a couple of years (I have very positive reference from a department head). The subject was illustration. I Have worked in web design and technical illustration with some freelancing (ronweed.com). I have no degree.

I appears from what I have read that English is the primary reason for hiring falang teachers. I have read that other courses are sometimes offered to falang. I have other skills that I could test out on to get certifications (A+ Computer and a Personal Trainers certification). Would that matter?

I assume that I would have to get a TEFL.

Any feedback would be great.

Well uberflight, when I was contracted to work for my school, I was asked by many people about my "qualification". As far as a 'formal' qualification was concerned, I only hold an Australian Tradesmans Certificate. However, I was also asked about my work history. After I "truthfully" revealed my work history (which can be checked) via my resume, I was asked to teach Mathematics & Physics as well as English, which I did.

I think I may enlist to gain the TEFL certificate, upon my re-arrival to Thailand later this year but I don't think it is all that necessary. I think that being employed as a teacher is more about "worldly experience" & less about "qualification". Of course, one must prove their worth by way of action.

I was one of three farangs at my school. I was the only one WITHOUT any formal teaching qualification, yet, the other "formally qualified" teachers seemed to have no real understanding of English. I'm talking about spelling & pronunciation in general but also they were terrible about "communicating" with others in general. One was an American & the other was Philipino...the Philipino was better at English compared to the American. Both of these persons were both quite young & had not had a "serious" job before being employed by my school.

[sweetbix]

Hi everyone,

I have a one year multiple entry visa and I am looking for a job in Bangkok. I have a bachelors degree majoring in science. Does anyone know if this is sufficient for me to get a work permit for a teaching job?. Do you need a Tefl as well now to get a teaching license and then a work permit. Do you need to be earning 30,000B to be able to get a work permit?. Has anyone out there been working in any other fields and got some good idea's for work apart from teaching. Any response would be fantastic. Thanks

[PeaceBlondie]

Hi everyone,

I have a one year multiple entry visa and I am looking for a job in Bangkok. I have a bachelors degree majoring in science. Does anyone know if this is sufficient for me to get a work permit for a teaching job?. Do you need a Tefl as well now to get a teaching license and then a work permit. Do you need to be earning 30,000B to be able to get a work permit?. Has anyone out there been working in any other fields and got some good idea's for work apart from teaching. Any response would be fantastic. Thanks

I'll try to give an opinion. Probably none of your questions has a clear-cut answer. Yes, you should be able to get a work permit if the school has half a brain (many don't) and the desire (again, many don't). Technically, legally, you probably don't need a TEFL certificate. But, if you're otherwise unprepared to teach things in English without courses in general education or TEFL, and haven't taught before, a TEFL course should help you get started.

No, you don't need 30K to get a work permit. On that one thing, we might all agree.

After you've been in Thailand a few years, or if you already had a Ph.D. and relevant experience, you might do other work than teaching. For starters, probably not.

Now, let the differing opinions begin.

[Ijustwannateach]

Uberflight: There are a fair number of people who have gotten TEFLs, worked hard at lower level jobs, and done better for themselves here in the end, even without a college degree. It's not easy and it's not the majority, but it *is* possible.

Sweetbix: You don't say if your multiple entry is a non-imm. "B" or tourist. If tourist, then no, it's not enough- you are likely to have to make another visa run to get the proper "B" visa, preferably with supporting paperwork. If you already have the non-imm. "B", then you're set for getting a job.

"Steven"

[elkangorito]

Hi everyone,

I have a one year multiple entry visa and I am looking for a job in Bangkok. I have a bachelors degree majoring in science. Does anyone know if this is sufficient for me to get a work permit for a teaching job?. Do you need a Tefl as well now to get a teaching license and then a work permit. Do you need to be earning 30,000B to be able to get a work permit?. Has anyone out there been working in any other fields and got some good idea's for work apart from teaching. Any response would be fantastic. Thanks

Immigration legalities aside, 'natural' teaching ability & 'selling yourself' are big hitters for getting a teaching job in Thailand...the 'selling yourself' thing is VERY IMPORTANT & very easy to do in Thailand. Thais generally place more emphasis upon your appearance & presentation than anything else. Just be well dressed & don't speak the absolute truth. Smile a lot. If one isn't already familiar with 'loss of face' then one will be disadvantaged as Thais (generally) live by this archaic cultural rule.

Be prepared to teach classes of about 50 students (if teaching at a government school) & try not to use the PA (portable voice power amplifier). I found that my voice was loud enough to gain the attention & therefore the respect, of the students. I found that teachers who used a PA were seen as weaker & seemed to have less control over the class. You'll find that Thai government schools are the noisiest things in the cosmos. Actually, Thailand is the noisiest country in which I've lived.

If you can handle these things, you'll find teaching in Thailand VERY rewarding. I'm not talking about money. I'm talking about the appreciation you get from the students & teachers.

The system is crazy & in disarray but the 'pleasure' & 'fun' that you will have, more than makes up for this.

I just hope that if you get a job that you don't convert the Thais into control freak westerners. I don't think Thailand would be a nice place at all if it were like Australia (for example) where there is a rule & regulation for everything.

[sweetbix]

Thanks so much to Peaceblondie, Ijustwannateach and Elkanqorito for your sound advice in your replies. Will go out looking hard for job now that I know can get work permit and teachers license just with science degree and multiple entry B visa. thanks will keep you posted

[english teacher]

"I don't have a degree; can I teach in Thailand?"

"I have a B.A. in French and a TEFL. What kind of salary can I expect?"

"If I want to work for the Hoity Toity High School, what sort of paper do I have to have?"

"Can I get a work permit teaching English in a public school even though my degree is in accounting?"

"Are any private schools looking for someone with a background in swimming instruction?"

Feel like asking one of these questions or something similar? Ask it here!

This is the place for folks new to Thailand or new to teaching to post their degree qualifications, TEFL certifications, and experience to see what kind of jobs they should expect- OR, on the other hand, the place to ask what kinds of qualifications would be necessary for specific teaching jobs. Of course, I'd like the TEFL/teaching masters responding to be gentle and kind, considering that these are NEW folks. The focus should be on delivering information, not on slagging anyone for their stated qualifications (or lack thereof). Specifically, this is NOT the thread for judging people based on the presence or lack of a TEFL certificate or a degree.

Hope all posters here will find something useful to them!

I'll start it out- what kind of salary can a person with a SUBJECT degree (not English/TEFL and not a Ed. degree) hope to find in Bangkok teaching his subject (at Prathom or Matthayom)?

well iam planing to move to thailand with my uk boyfriend and iam planning to teach but the problem is i don't have a degree teaching that's why iam asking what should i need to work as an english teacher there if iam holding a degree in BS Chemical Engineering

[elkangorito]

well iam planing to move to thailand with my uk boyfriend and iam planning to teach but the problem is i don't have a degree teaching that's why iam asking what should i need to work as an english teacher there if iam holding a degree in BS Chemical Engineering

I think you'll find the answers in previous posts.

Happy reading.

[kenkannif]

Uberflight: There are a fair number of people who have gotten TEFLs, worked hard at lower level jobs, and done better for themselves here in the end, even without a college degree. It's not easy and it's not the majority, but it *is* possible.

Sweetbix: You don't say if your multiple entry is a non-imm. "B" or tourist. If tourist, then no, it's not enough- you are likely to have to make another visa run to get the proper "B" visa, preferably with supporting paperwork. If you already have the non-imm. "B", then you're set for getting a job.

"Steven"

I don't think they do multiple tourist Visas any more (just double, triple etc. which some people confuse with multiple entries).

Also it is possible (difficult....well not really, but most schools can be bothered it seems) to convert a tourist Visa to a Non-imm B.

[kenkannif]

Thanks so much to Peaceblondie, Ijustwannateach and Elkanqorito for your sound advice in your replies. Will go out looking hard for job now that I know can get work permit and teachers license just with science degree and multiple entry B visa. thanks will keep you posted

Depends on who, what and where you're teaching in regards to you being able to getting a TL and WP with just a degree mate. I'd say though you've got more chance than you haven't, but it's in no way definite (as PB said probably).

[kenkannif]

"I don't have a degree; can I teach in Thailand?"

"I have a B.A. in French and a TEFL. What kind of salary can I expect?"

"If I want to work for the Hoity Toity High School, what sort of paper do I have to have?"

"Can I get a work permit teaching English in a public school even though my degree is in accounting?"

"Are any private schools looking for someone with a background in swimming instruction?"

Feel like asking one of these questions or something similar? Ask it here!

This is the place for folks new to Thailand or new to teaching to post their degree qualifications, TEFL certifications, and experience to see what kind of jobs they should expect- OR, on the other hand, the place to ask what kinds of qualifications would be necessary for specific teaching jobs. Of course, I'd like the TEFL/teaching masters responding to be gentle and kind, considering that these are NEW folks. The focus should be on delivering information, not on slagging anyone for their stated qualifications (or lack thereof). Specifically, this is NOT the thread for judging people based on the presence or lack of a TEFL certificate or a degree.

Hope all posters here will find something useful to them!

I'll start it out- what kind of salary can a person with a SUBJECT degree (not English/TEFL and not a Ed. degree) hope to find in Bangkok teaching his subject (at Prathom or Matthayom)?

well iam planing to move to thailand with my uk boyfriend and iam planning to teach but the problem is i don't have a degree teaching that's why iam asking what should i need to work as an english teacher there if iam holding a degree in BS Chemical Engineering

Well you'll get work, but will you know what you're doing? That's the problem. Even if you get a job teaching a specific subject you're generally still using (or should be) EFL techniques to get your point across etc.

[nokmdk]

Dear Experts,

I have been in Thailand now for almost 5 years...ouch, has it been so long?

I have my degree, BA in English Lit from Canada, i have been doing my part time course for my masters in same. Now that i am about to go home and do my final test, if all goes well, receive my paper. When i come back, do i show both papers to the government for paper work such as permit and such, or can i just show my masters now? I'm asking as i do not wish to carry all this paper work only to have both lost at the same time after all my hard work. Should i just give the same BA for the permits? I'm sure you get the idea. Thanks in advance all and please excuse the poor grammar and such as i am in a hurry.

Edited April 19, 2006 by nokmdk

[Ijustwannateach]

Dear Experts,

I have been in Thailand now for almost 5 years...ouch, has it been so long?

I have my degree, BA in English Lit from Canada, i have been doing my part time course for my masters in same. Now that i am about to go home and do my final test, if all goes well, receive my paper. When i come back, do i show both papers to the government for paper work such as permit and such, or can i just show my masters now? I'm asking as i do not wish to carry all this paper work only to have both lost at the same time after all my hard work. Should i just give the same BA for the permits? I'm sure you get the idea. Thanks in advance all and please excuse the poor grammar and such as i am in a hurry.

I think you should be ready to prove you have any degrees you are going to claim to have for the purposes of getting a job. For the government, that usually involves the official transcripts for the relevant degrees (the degree certificates themselves are becoming less important as they are so difficult to verify). I've met a number of people "waiting" for various degrees, but at the better jobs you will continue to be pressed for proof, eventually.

"Steven"

[nokmdk]

Dear Experts,

I have been in Thailand now for almost 5 years...ouch, has it been so long?

I have my degree, BA in English Lit from Canada, i have been doing my part time course for my masters in same. Now that i am about to go home and do my final test, if all goes well, receive my paper. When i come back, do i show both papers to the government for paper work such as permit and such, or can i just show my masters now? I'm asking as i do not wish to carry all this paper work only to have both lost at the same time after all my hard work. Should i just give the same BA for the permits? I'm sure you get the idea. Thanks in advance all and please excuse the poor grammar and such as i am in a hurry.

I think you should be ready to prove you have any degrees you are going to claim to have for the purposes of getting a job. For the government, that usually involves the official transcripts for the relevant degrees (the degree certificates themselves are becoming less important as they are so difficult to verify). I've met a number of people "waiting" for various degrees, but at the better jobs you will continue to be pressed for proof, eventually.

"Steven"

Ok Steven

My bad this time, let me ask this again but much more clear.

I have shown and proven i have my BA to all government officials for various things i needed. Now, i'm about to introduce my Masters is same said field. When i go to give the government my documents, they always ask that there be no copies but the originals. I do not fancy them having my BA and Masters at the same time, this is just asking for them to loose one or both. Will i be better to just give my BA still or now can i just give my Masters only? I'm asking as i don't want later for them to say why is it not the same, come back again etc...... The verify process doesn't bother me at all, it's them having both degrees at the same time.

I hope i've made this easier to understand this time. Sorry about the mess.

[Ijustwannateach]

The Thai government is noticeably slow and inefficient to grant teacher's licenses and work permits at all... I wouldn't tempt them to delay further by not showing them both transcripts at once. I can understand your worry, but I haven't (yet!) heard first person from anyone of the government itself losing such important documents (though your school's human resources officer may be another matter).

So I suppose that my answer is you should show everything you need to show all at once, as soon as they're ready for it, because it may take a loooong time and even cause you to have to start the process all over again (and still have to submit both papers at once) if you don't follow their robotic procedures.

Good luck!

"Steven"

[elkangorito]

The Thai government is noticeably slow and inefficient to grant teacher's licenses and work permits at all... I wouldn't tempt them to delay further by not showing them both transcripts at once. I can understand your worry, but I haven't (yet!) heard first person from anyone of the government itself losing such important documents (though your school's human resources officer may be another matter).

So I suppose that my answer is you should show everything you need to show all at once, as soon as they're ready for it, because it may take a loooong time and even cause you to have to start the process all over again (and still have to submit both papers at once) if you don't follow their robotic procedures.

Good luck!

"Steven"

When my school asked for my 'originals', I emphatically stated that they would never part my company. My 'originals' were then copied & 'stamped' by the school. On no occassion, did any Thai authority ever hold my original documents, although I was happy & able to produce them on demand.

This did not seem to slow the process of approval for my 'non B' visa.

[Ijustwannateach]

It is my understanding that a law was recently passed requiring the schools to be more responsible in vetting the degrees of their foreign employees. Despite this being an enormously bad idea [if the Thai government can barely figure out whose degrees are real, how are the individual office staff of every school in Nakorn Nowhere?], it largely leaves it up to the school (for public schools, at least) whether they consider you "qualified" enough.

Nokdmk, you've already shown your B.A., both to your school and presumably the Ministry of Labour. If you have your work permit, then you don't really need to do any more paperwork. It may be useful to your status at the school to show them your Master's, if it truly makes a difference to your school. Otherwise it sounds as if you've already got everything you need, right?

"Steven"

Edited April 22, 2006 by Ijustwannateach

[pilgrim2505]

No degree!

I was in the military for 9 years, I now work for a training company delivering Eng, maths, and IT to adult learners. I have references to support this.

My question is would I be likely to secure teaching jobs in Thailand if I were to acquire a tefl / esol cert?

[agsnowdon]

No degree!

I was in the military for 9 years, I now work for a training company delivering Eng, maths, and IT to adult learners. I have references to support this.

My question is would I be likely to secure teaching jobs in Thailand if I were to acquire a tefl / esol cert?

Hate to let you in on a little secret, but others are teaching with alot less skills than you have.

Search this forum this topic has been done alot.

Ash

[ladyexpat01]

What can I expect employment wise if I make the move?

Qualifications: B.A., M.A. (Applied Linguistics), TEFL Cert

Employment History: 5+ years teaching in Korea. I have taught kids, adults, and am currently teaching at a university. Prior to getting into the teaching field I was in sales........and worked for two major worldwide bookpublishers, and a Fortune 100 company (Amex to be exact).

I am also published. I am the co-author of the book "Developing Skills for the TOEFL iBT (pubished 2006, Compass Publishing).

As much as I want to relocate to Thailand, I do not want to work for nothing.

Any thoughts on what might be available to me would be most appreciated.

[PeaceBlondie]

ladyexpat, you posted your question in a good thread (Qualifications), and maybe I should leave it there, but I'm putting it on its own in a thread that will be more easily noticed by our readers. Maybe I'll put it back in Qualifications thread, later.

Do you want to continue teaching advanced TEFL subjects in a university? Or, do you want to teach secondary students in one of the best international schools in Bangkok?

One of the usual responses is that while university lecturers only get a basic govt. salary of about 26,000 baht per month, they have a flexible schedule and can teach private lessons. Or, they do consultant work or get research/publishing grants, that might double their income. Or, they get more salary at private schools.

Offhand (and I'm far below your professional level) I would think you could teach graduate school majors in English or linguistics. It would not be exactly like Korea, or your home country, of course.

[tedkarma]

ladyexpat, you posted your question in a good thread (Qualifications), and maybe I should leave it there, but I'm putting it on its own in a thread that will be more easily noticed by our readers. Maybe I'll put it back in Qualifications thread, later.

Do you want to continue teaching advanced TEFL subjects in a university? Or, do you want to teach secondary students in one of the best international schools in Bangkok?

One of the usual responses is that while university lecturers only get a basic govt. salary of about 26,000 baht per month, they have a flexible schedule and can teach private lessons. Or, they do consultant work or get research/publishing grants, that might double their income. Or, they get more salary at private schools.

Offhand (and I'm far below your professional level) I would think you could teach graduate school majors in English or linguistics. It would not be exactly like Korea, or your home country, of course.

I've recently returned to Thailand after three years at Konkuk University in Korea. Land a "good" job in Thailand and you will make about 1/4 to 1/3 of what you earned in Korea. I am not sure at what level you will feel like you are working for "nothing" - but I suspect we are getting close to it.

I love Thailand - but I have to say that few countries demand more - and pay less in exchange for what they ask. I've been teaching EFL since 1992 - with very similar quals to yours and Thailand is the ONLY country where I have ever had to punch in on a time clock!

College, university, and/or corporate work - would most likely suit you - but you will have to get used to significantly lower levels of compensation and, in fact, significantly lower levels of professional respect.

In Korea it was hard to get off the couch for less than US$40-50 an hour - here you would be lucky to be talking US$20-25 for a special project. And that might be in Bangkok where the commute to get to that job might be an hour each way.

You are also, most likely, used to employer provided housing - which is very rare here. So, add that to your expenses.

An ambitious teacher here would need to get involved in additional projects and/or publishing IMO.

I am here because I love the country, love Phuket - and my wife (also an EFL teacher), kitty , home, truck, motorcycle, etc are all here. Thailand is my home. But, it does seem that I need to leave from time to time to refill the bank accounts.

I'm not trying to be discouraging - as much as telling you the shift in financial expectations you will have to make to come and live in Thailand.

There are however, as always, those who break the mold.

Edited May 24, 2006 by tedkarma

[toptuan]

TedKarma is right on in his observations. I have colleagues with similar qualification to yours who teach graduate students at my university. They are making around 30,000 Baht/month (currently about $800 USD), and yes, they have to punch a time clock.

The only reason you'd come here would be for the satisfaction of working with wonderful students and many sweet-spirited Thai colleagues; and in most cases, total freedom to mold your curriculum and classes to your teaching style for maximum effectiveness. Not for the money...

Caution: Several of the earlier comments suggest "side-line" work to boost income while being employed in a school in Thailand. Seldom is this done within the law, since Work Permit regulations are quite strict about what jobs/duties cannot be done outside the official Work Permit allowances. Granted, many do it, but I'm personally not comfortable giving some disgruntled, inadvertently-offended, or jealous co-worker/neighbor the ammunition to have me deported.

[Neeranam]

You could get a job in a university, working only 15 hours a week. You could do this in 3 days, working extras on the weekend and in the evening.

This is how Thai lecturers egt a decent income.

Say 30,000 for your uni. job + extras there for 1000 an hour. This can quite easily be 50,000 a month.

You can pick up lots of other work if you are professional.

100,000 a month, or US$2500 is possible, with only one day off a week.

I worked as a teacher in Bangkok for nearly 10 years and have many contacts, who are looking for good, qualified teachers - PM me if you want.

Don't worry about doing work outside of where you have your permit.

Edited May 24, 2006 by Neeranam

[tedkarma]

You could get a job in a university, working only 15 hours a week. You could do this in 3 days, working extras on the weekend and in the evening.

This is how Thai lecturers egt a decent income.

Say 30,000 for your uni. job + extras there for 1000 an hour. This can quite easily be 50,000 a month.

You can pick up lots of other work if you are professional.

100,000 a month, or US$2500 is possible, with only one day off a week.

I worked as a teacher in Bangkok for nearly 10 years and have many contacts, who are looking for good, qualified teachers - PM me if you want.

Don't worry about doing work outside of where you have your permit.

So, there you go . . . work a six day week, lots of side jobs on the weekend and evenings - and you will earn less than you already make on a 9 or 12 hour a week contract with probably a four day week and 16-20 weeks paid vacation per year.

And, that's the "up" side . . .

Don't misunderstand me - I love it here. But there is a kind of financial shock that comes with working here. You have to accept it if you want to live here.

There are people who make some decent money - usually they get out of teaching. Or, in teaching, work days and nights - and weekends.

Edited May 25, 2006 by tedkarma