Dual citizenship, how to travel into LOS, passport wise

[lindegaard]

Hello everyone

Danish citizen with 1 child (now 21of age), who last year, after some struggle with authorities (took almost 2 years, due to wrong information from the embassy in Denmark, a not so cooperative Amphu in rural Thailand and so on) finally got her Thai citizenship, ID card and passport, and written in to the tambien baan.

Question is this:

How does one travel in to LOS with the Thai passport, so that she don't need a visa, and can stay longer than the 30 day's given? 

We have been told by the Embassy here in Denmark this guideline:

use the Thai passport from beginning to end, then when asked for VISA at airline checkin, show them the Danish passport, as proof of legal residence.
upon arrival in DK you get stamp in Thai passport for entering, again just show them that you are elligable to enter by showing presenting the Danish passport.

However, one has been misslead or otherwise wrongly told before, so I was wandering if anyone here has any experience from the UK, (since none really at the Danish community at another forum, has a up to date experience),of a recent date, as to how it is best worked about.

Also, she had the passport issued in LOS, last summer, but since she had entered on the Danish passport, she did'nt think about anything else than she had to leave on that passport. She should offcourse have had a stamp in the Thai passport also.

 

This post has also been posted at buriramexpats,  and some advised to post here as well for a  5th opinion,  maybe by UBON JOE, if you see this 

 

I guess I'm really into info on where the rules are actually stated in writing, and not only how some do it this way and others in a different way.

Best regards

BuddhaNoi

[simple1]

Depart / re-enter Denmark on Danish passport. Enter and depart Thailand with Thai passport.

[Crossy]

As above enter and leave LOS on the Thai passport, Denmark on the Danish passport.

 

Also.

 

Never, ever show both passports to an immigration official (or any official for that matter) some can be rather, er, enthusiastic. A mate had his (perfectly legal) second UK passport confiscated by a Malaysian policeman when he produced the wrong one at a night-time check.

 

The only time you may need to show both passports is to a check-in clerk who is doing their job properly and verifying you have the right of entry at the other end.

 

I tried to check-in at swampy using the wrong passport and the nice lady spotted I had no Thai entry stamp, a hasty rummage produced the right passport and a reminder to be more careful in future (see above).

 

[sirineou]

 Same as all the above answers.

Wife has both US and Thai passports

departs US with US passport,  enters Thailand with Thai passport, departs Thailand with Thai passport  , enters US with US passport.

 Has being doing it like this for many years sometimes twise a year, never a problem.

[lindegaard]

So by doing it this way, she won't have any departure stamp in her Thai passport stating she left DK, and the Thai immigration don't bother  about that ? IMO they could care less about were you came from, but I've heard about others that were questioned of there whereabouts prior to entering LOS and having problems from a missing stamp, when entering LOS on a Thai passport.

Next copied from another forum:

 

3rd world and developing nations sometimes check to see that you exited the previous country legally and are not fleeing something. So playing multiple passports during a multi country travel trip requires a little more pre-trip country specific research (just a warning from a lesson learned the hard way ;-)

 

@Crossy ,Simple1, & Sirineou,  where did you get your info on this subject, where did you find info? 

Edited May 3, 2018 by lindegaard
entering some more text

[simple1]

6 minutes ago, lindegaard said:

So by doing it this way, she won't have any departure stamp in her Thai passport stating she left DK, and the Thai immigration don't bother  about that ? IMO they could care less about were you came from, but I've heard about others that were questioned of there whereabouts prior to entering LOS and having problems from a missing stamp, when entering LOS on a Thai passport.

 

@Crossy and Simple1, where did you get your info on this subject, where did you find info? 

Wife has Thai & Australian passports, been using the process described above for years - never any questioning / problems at Thai or Australian border control.

[lindegaard]

@simple1, good to hear but none theless, I'm also looking for the rule in officael writing. Heres why:

 

Due to severe daily pain I take a lot of pain killers of which some is morphin, a substance strictly prohibited to carry to TH due it's family of opiats, and therefore one needs to request for permission with Thai FDA, Narcotics Control Division. to bring this drug with you.

 

When embassy was asked here in DK, they did not mension it, only that my doctor needed to write and sign for what kind of drugs I used, in english, then legalized and then signed by the Thai embassy staff.

 

I found it to be strange that a simple signature from the staff should grant me permission. So I started to look into this, and was given many different ways of bringing it in, even some who said they had never been stopped in customs and so on, so I should not be concerned??

 

I then found guidance at the embassys  homepage, strange they didnt tell me, and here it was very clearly stated what was the way about this subject.

Very easy, and had the permission emailed to me after a couple of days.

 

Then when entering LOS one early morning, and I approched the red exit at customs as stated, they did'nt care, and just pointed me to the green exit .

 

Well at least I had my documents with me all the time also as stated, and gave me peace in mind. 

 

So that's why I really would like to see what the exact rules on this topic is, I allready see what the majority do when travelling, not saying that they do it wrong, aparently they don't, but what are the rules,   for being annoying.

[Crossy]

Good point about the "missing" Thai exit stamp (she won't have the entry half of the TM6 either).

 

Just tell the immigration officer that it's a new passport obtained overseas and fill in a new TM6 entry card (it works the opposite way round for Thais, they keep the entry half whilst overseas).

 

If there's an issue ask to see a supervisor.

 

Where did I learn all this? From personal experience, Wifey had almost exactly the same issue when we first came here. Brand new Thai passport, no stamps (Italy doesn't stamp on exit), no TM6. Two minutes with the officer (no need for a supervisor) and all is good, never showed anything other than Thai passport.

 

EDIT @lindegaard I understand your worries considering the poor (non) advice you received on the opiates issue, but there's a saying many Thais use "farang think too mutt", I think you are worrying way too much.

 

EDIT2 The rules are likely out there, buried in a Thai language Rules & Regulations document, good luck finding that.

[theoldgit]

As this question relates to travel to Thailand, I'll move it to the appropriate forum. 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

Good point about the "missing" Thai exit stamp (she won't have the entry half of the TM6 either).

 

Just tell the immigration officer that it's a new passport obtained overseas and fill in a new TM6 entry card (it works the opposite way round for Thais, they keep the entry half whilst overseas).

Immigration on entry sometimes want to see departure stamp for Thailand but there is no written rule that says one is required. I suspect there are many people that don't have since they used the electronic gates when leaving.

Thais no longer have to complete a TM6 for departure or entry. That went into effect last year.

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Thais no longer have to complete a TM6 for departure or entry. That went into effect last year.

Thanks Joe, one less thing for our OP to worry about.

[Expatthailover]

6 hours ago, Crossy said:

As above enter and leave LOS on the Thai passport, Denmark on the Danish passport.

 

Also.

 

Never, ever show both passports to an immigration official (or any official for that matter) some can be rather, er, enthusiastic. A mate had his (perfectly legal) second UK passport confiscated by a Malaysian policeman when he produced the wrong one at a night-time check.

 

The only time you may need to show both passports is to a check-in clerk who is doing their job properly and verifying you have the right of entry at the other end.

 

I tried to check-in at swampy using the wrong passport and the nice lady spotted I had no Thai entry stamp, a hasty rummage produced the right passport and a reminder to be more careful in future (see above).

 

Illegal to confiscate a passport from another country.

He or she should have gone direct to consulate or embassy

[Here It Is]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

… but there's a saying many Thais use "farang think too mutt", I think you are worrying way too much.

Absolutely.  My wife and I visit and depart LOS twice a year from the UK and never had a problem.  

 

As previously stated, the only time that both passports are produced is at the check-in desk on departure and that's only for the airline to check that my wife has the correct immigration clearance for the UK, otherwise she wouldn't be going anywhere.

 

We're also grateful that the TM6 nonsense has now gone away for my wife.  Seemed a useless exercise for a Thai national, though when we landed at Swampy last week a departure card was slipped into her Thai passport by the IO.  Not sure what that was all about but definitely don't need it for our return to UK. 

 

In summary: don't start waving multiple passports about when arriving in LOS as IOs get majorly confused very quickly which could lead to potential delays.  I made the mistake of holding my wife's UK passport in my hand at the immigration counter a few years ago and immediately the IO asked 'what's that?', I said my wife's passport, 'where's your wife?' who was at the adjacent counter and I pointed towards her.  I could see his eyes rotating in utter confusion and hear his brain jangling about but, fortunately, he went back to stamping my passport.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2018 by Here It Is

[ZJGsausage]

When booking the ticket would he use the Danish passport number for the airline?

 

[Here It Is]

32 minutes ago, ZJGsausage said:

When booking the ticket would he use the Danish passport number for the airline?

Short answer - yes.

[Arkady]

19 hours ago, lindegaard said:

So by doing it this way, she won't have any departure stamp in her Thai passport stating she left DK, and the Thai immigration don't bother  about that ? IMO they could care less about were you came from, but I've heard about others that were questioned of there whereabouts prior to entering LOS and having problems from a missing stamp, when entering LOS on a Thai passport.

Next copied from another forum:

 

3rd world and developing nations sometimes check to see that you exited the previous country legally and are not fleeing something. So playing multiple passports during a multi country travel trip requires a little more pre-trip country specific research (just a warning from a lesson learned the hard way ;-)

 

@Crossy ,Simple1, & Sirineou,  where did you get your info on this subject, where did you find info? 

 

The easiest thing to do is just enter and exit Thailand using the Thai passport at the electronic gates which doesn't give Immigration officials the opportunity to ask any nosey questions that are none of their business or to offer their own ridiculous, ignorant theories about the legally of dual citizenship.  If the gates are not working and this does come up, she needs to stand her ground and assert her constitutional right not to be denied entry to the Kingdom as a Thai citizen (i.e. using her Thai passport) and refuse to present the Danish one.  Ask to see a supervisor, if necessary.  This used to come up a lot before the electronic gates were installed and the supervisors have never been known to deny entry on a Thai passport, even if issued overseas and with no stamps in it, regardless of what their subordinates say.

 

Finally she should bear in mind that there is no risk to her Thai citizenship whatsoever.  Section 14 of the Nationality Act gave her the right but not the obligation to renounce her Thai citizenship at the age of 20.  She can quote it to any official who falsely claims she had to choose one nationality and give up the other.  Reinforcing this the current constitution says that no one who is Thai from birth shall have their Thai citizenship revoked involuntarily.  They are all terrified of being sued in the Administrative Court, so they usually back down quite fast in the face of someone who quotes specific points of law at them.  

[GLewis]

My kids to to university in California and have been doing this for 3 years now, plus all the times we travelled to the states for holidays. We live in Thailand, so leave Thailand on Thai/arrive USA on US.   Leave US on US/Arrive Thailand on Thai. Never had a problem off either end. In fact they both went alone at 13 to the US for a summer visit and there was not a problem one.

[HHTel]

You can enter Thailand on an expired Thai passport so a current one should be no problem.

[lindegaard]

8 hours ago, Crossy said:

EDIT @lindegaard I understand your worries considering the poor (non) advice you received on the opiates issue, but there's a saying many Thais use "farang think too mutt", I think you are worrying way too much.

 

Think to much, hmmmm, that might be, on the other hand in the medicin case I would rather do it by the book, since there is a clear restriction on the matter, than ending up in a place like Klong Prem. When I was active in the Airline business, I used to come to Bkk twice a month, sometimes 3 times, and at a time visited and brought food and letters to a Dane sitting in Klong Prem for narcotics. Not a place for the faint of heart I must say.

On the passport subect, you're wright, but it's annoying that not even here in Europe they can present you with the real guideline, think of it this way... what if you get involved in something criminal, would you accept that one judge said this, and another that, because thats what they did before and nobody questioned it? then when asked they just say we have done so for 50 years, but don't really if it's by any stated/written rule... 

[Jonmarleesco]

Yes, my son is Thai-British. He leaves Thailand on his Thai passport, enters the UK on his British one, then vice versa. Never a problem.

 

Other countries, passport will depend on which; so in Asia, would use the Thai one, in the West, the British one. 

[Arkady]

57 minutes ago, lindegaard said:

 

Think to much, hmmmm, that might be, on the other hand in the medicin case I would rather do it by the book, since there is a clear restriction on the matter, than ending up in a place like Klong Prem. When I was active in the Airline business, I used to come to Bkk twice a month, sometimes 3 times, and at a time visited and brought food and letters to a Dane sitting in Klong Prem for narcotics. Not a place for the faint of heart I must say.

On the passport subect, you're wright, but it's annoying that not even here in Europe they can present you with the real guideline, think of it this way... what if you get involved in something criminal, would you accept that one judge said this, and another that, because thats what they did before and nobody questioned it? then when asked they just say we have done so for 50 years, but don't really if it's by any stated/written rule... 

 

I am confused by the reference to opiates but what you need to understand is that there is no written rule about this. In common with most statutory Thai legislation, the Nationality Act is written in a vague and ambiguous way.  Some of this is generally in Thai law is done intentionally to allow officials and courts to interpret the law differently in similar cases, depending on important or wealthy the involved parties are.  Some of the ambiguity (this applies a lot to the Nationality Act) is there because of the habit of cutting and pasting from earlier Acts which means you get some torturous wording that is difficult to understand after clauses have been amended by this method rather than by doing a complete re-write.  Section 14 of the Nationality Act, which deals with half-Thais, is a good example of this.  It was amended in 1992 to allow Thai citizenship to pass through the female line but made it compulsory to choose only one nationality at the age of 20.  Three weeks later it was amended again by changing just a few words to make it merely an option with obligation to renounce Thai nationality but the fierce wording of the original was retained making it seem ambiguous.  

 

Basically dual nationality is neither specifically permitted, nor prohibited in the Nationality Act.  Different parts of government have different views.  The Interior Ministry, the official guardian of the Nationality Act, regrets the fact that dual nationality is not specifically prohibited in the law and likes to give the impression that it is prohibited, even thought it knows this is not true.  The Immigration Bureau also tends to follow this line. The Foreign Ministry which manages Thai embassies and consulates overseas takes the more pragmatic view that dual nationality is not specifically prohibited and acknowledges that there are now thousands of dual national Thais living around the world who need to be given assistance with Thai nationality and meaningful advice on how to travel with two passports. Bear in mind that the right to Thai nationality never expires, unlike many Western countries which limit to the right to nationality to only one generation born abroad. Anyone born with one Thai parent anywhere in the world is entitled to Thai nationality, no matter how many generations their antecedents have been born abroad.

 

The only way you can really understand all this is by reading the Nationality Act in the original and examining the history of its amendments and the predecessor nationality acts.  Then research in the Royal Gazette extensively to understand the process of granting, renunciation and revocation of Thai nationality through actual cases.  Then read whatever you can find written in Thai on the subject of Thai nationality.   Unfortunately there is hardly anything written in English on the topic.  

[Here It Is]

What the heck has your medication got to do with your daughter's Thai passport, OP?

 

Please separate the two out as you are confusing a very simple matter.  Maybe start a new thread about your 'opiates' as this is now becoming ridiculous.  You've had your answer so please progress to a new topic on your medication.

[Arkady]

OK now I understand the question about the medication.  What the Thai embassy staff were advising was that you should get a doctors certificate that you have been legally prescribed the medication and then get it legalised at the Thai embassy.  That means that the Thai embassy staff will effectively vouch that this is a genuine Danish document which would come in handy, if you were arrested with the medication at the airport in Bangkok or elsewhere in Thailand.   This seems to be very helpful and sensible advice from the embassy and I don't understand why you were confused by it. 

[TerryLH]

3 hours ago, Arkady said:

Reinforcing this the current constitution says that on one who is Thai from birth shall have their Thai citizenship revoked involuntarily.

Should that be;   "...one who is Thai from birth shall NEVER have their Thai citizenship revoked involuntarily."

[Arkady]

7 hours ago, TerryLH said:

Should that be;   "...one who is Thai from birth shall NEVER have their Thai citizenship revoked involuntarily."

 

No one who is Thai from birth shall their Thai citizenship revoked involuntarily. 

[imjmn]

I have been coming and going LOS with various medications including opiates for years. I have a signed prescription sheet from my USA doctor with name of the medication and the quantity. 

 

I have never been stopped for any medications and certainly do not broadcast to Customs by going to the Red Lane on exit.

 

MJ

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, imjmn said:

I have been coming and going LOS with various medications including opiates for years. I have a signed prescription sheet from my USA doctor with name of the medication and the quantity. 

 

I have never been stopped for any medications and certainly do not broadcast to Customs by going to the Red Lane on exit.

 

MJ

 

That's the standard advice I have seen regarding travelling with prescription medication that would be an illegal substance minus the prescription - carry the prescription with you.  I think the Thai Embassy in Denmark's advice to get the prescription legalized by a Thai embassy or consulate is extremely thorough as well as potentially providing them with consular fees.  If you are very nervous about the risk of carrying these meds, by all means get your prescriptions legalized by the embassies of all countries you might travel to and be sure to keep your documentation up-to-date. For frequent travellers to many different countries this would develop into a bit of a nightmare scenario and some embassies might refuse to do this work.  Personally I would just follow imjmn's advice and carry the prescription without getting legalizations done. 

 

Alternatively, to be absolutely risk free, leave the meds at home and go cold turkey.

[JG27]

On 04/05/2018 at 9:09 AM, simple1 said:

Wife has Thai & Australian passports, been using the process described above for years - never any questioning / problems at Thai or Australian border control.

Same for us...