A Non-smoking Dancing Place With A Dance Floor

[MyPenRye]

Where are the figures to support your statement that NON smokers are the majority. I assume youare talking about Chiang Mai. In my experience the majority of Thias smoke!

In Canada, smokers are a minority (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/tobac-tabac/research-recherche/stat/ctums-esutc/fs-if/2003/2003-smok-fum_e.html). I do not have --nor do I need-- stats for Thailand as it is clear that a clear majority of Thais (women and men) are non-smokers (probably lower than in Canada). That's another reason I love this country. If only the whisky manufacturers could be prevented from advertising their products in movies and elsewhere, then Thailand would be paradise on Earth, because --sadly-- Thais have been brainwashed to drink and get drunk. But, I digress.

[MyPenRye]

Thanks for the kind words and support. Non-smokers have the right to support each other, considering Thai laws, which seem to change for the better. Hopefully, night clubs will be included soon in the anti-smoking laws.

I hope the dancing and the music at the Lotus is enjoyable. (It might be a good idea to advertise this place to other people as I am afraid that it needs a lot of people to make it worthwhile going, as not many people know about it and as it is a bit out of the way).

[sabaijai]

One of my favorite pubs switched to non-smoking last April 1st.

Now very peaceful and all the previous regulars dis-appeared. Great, I can relax at the counter all by myself.

Which pub?

[dumspero]

Canada...? Maybe that explains a lot.

I don't smoke, but I see smokers as the last line of defense in some ways between the well-intended fascist majority in America from getting at me (e.g. regulating alcohol and fat intake). I miss the days when one could go to the back of the plane and spend quality time with people who, to generalize, are a much more fun-loving crowd than non-smokers.

Luckily, most of Asia is far, far away from infringing on freedom like that.

Live and let live. Don't worry. Mai pen rai...

[Axel]

One of my favorite pubs switched to non-smoking last April 1st.

Now very peaceful and all the previous regulars dis-appeared. Great, I can relax at the counter all by myself.

Which pub?

Bangkok (just realized I am in the Chiang Mai forum)

Bei Otto - Schwarzwaldstube

[MyPenRye]

Canada...? Maybe that explains a lot.

I don't smoke, but I see smokers as the last line of defense in some ways between the well-intended fascist majority in America from getting at me (e.g. regulating alcohol and fat intake). I miss the days when one could go to the back of the plane and spend quality time with people who, to generalize, are a much more fun-loving crowd than non-smokers.

Luckily, most of Asia is far, far away from infringing on freedom like that.

Live and let live. Don't worry. Mai pen rai...

Not sure about the ... "Canada ...? Maybe that explains a lot." comment ! Not sure what kind of inference you can make about Canadians as they come from all over the world, but ... maybe you are right,... all Canadians are idiots!

Fascism and regulation of alcohol, tobacco, and fat intake? Yikes! Believe me! I am far from being a fascist and I believe in legalisation of drugs (all of them)! You can drink what you want and smoke what you want, as long as you don't kill me while driving and don't kill me with your smoke! If that's the kind of regulation you are talking about, then, yes, I am for that, and if that makes me a fascist in your eyes, so be it ! You see, your freedom ends where mine starts! I hope you understand! But,... I think this is off-topic!

I hope all enjoy dancing at the Lotus!

[Ta22]

we have one world -

as much as we alway try to change others , sometime is better to look into oneself .

i don't think is nice to call others idiot . - no matter which country there are from .

maybe a different in idea and thinking .

eg. smoking . i personally don't smoke . for your info .. the exhust flame from cars kill you the same way smoke kill you ,

why not you stay in the room or suggest people to stop driving ?

there are many thing that kill you . and to make it simple we all die sooner or later . is nto how safe you walk your path in life is how much had you enjoy it .

lighten up dude you need to cheer up .

when respect is given to other i am sure respect will be granted back .

many problem start from oneself and the simple idea of how you see this world .

i once heard someone saying . that a monk said whahahh if you find this town bad .

no matter where you go the next town is going to have the same problem .

live and let live .

Edited February 7, 2007 by Ta22

[adjan jb]

Not sure what kind of inference you can make about Canadians as they come from all over the world

The ones we have in Chiang Mai all come from Canada.

[PhilHarries]

eg. smoking . i personally don't smoke . for your info .. the exhust flame from cars kill you the same way smoke kill you ,

why not you stay in the room or suggest people to stop driving ?

Yes, petrol and diesel exhaust fumes quietly go unmentioned in all this fuss about air quality and smoking. But they contain just as bad, if not worse carcinogenic compounds.

On the subject of passive smoking, a few years back they did a test on TV where they took a swab from the inside of the mouth of a non-smoking barmaid in a London pub. They evaluated the levels of nicotine and pronounced that she was running a 50% greater risk of contracting lung cancer than if she worked in a non-smoking atmosphere.

OH MY GOD! SHOCK HORROR! We're all going to die, the sky is falling in!

What never got analysed, nor mentioned, was that OK she has a 50% greater chance of going down with the big C. But this means that non-smokers working in an entirely non-smoking atmosphere still run the risk of lung cancer. So what is that risk? It has to be pretty small otherwise the decreased risk associated with not smoking is not worth worrying about. So let's pick a number, one in a million? No let's go silly, one in a hundred thousand. So in two hundred thousand non's in a non-smoking atmosphere two will get it against three in a smoking atmosphere.

So to return to MyPenRye's analogy with a guy shooting him being equal to a smoker, the gunman is a pretty lousy shot eh?

So to return to an earlier comment of mine, it's the management who makes the rules based on attracting a certain type/class of customer and if they don't get the custom they consider a change to the rules. I've never been to a bar/pub/nightclub or anywhere where the customers make the rules. If anyone knows of such a place please let me know (PM preferrably, we don't want anyone else learning of this eutopia).

PS just in case accusations are gonna fly, I've never smoked a cigarette or cigar or pipe in my life so I don't have any kind of vested interest in the subject. I just use that old fashioned thing called personal choice, try it you never know you might just lighten up and enjoy life a bit more.

[MyPenRye]

we have one world -

as much as we alway try to change others , sometime is better to look into oneself.

>> Mmmm! We have one world! Yes! Not an Earth shattering (excuse the pun) revelation, but we do! (In fact, it is likely that there are many planets that have earth-like conditions, but I think I might be accuse of digression). I feel I am given a lesson here! I am not sure that I need it, however! I am not too sure that then one who is giving it has earned the right to give it! DUDE (to use your condescending way of communicating), it is the essence of human beings to change, to improve, to make things better! Are you suggesting that we all go back to a cave and blow on pieces of wood? Maybe you are a proponent of censorship? Maybe you are a proponent of forbidding constructive criticism? And, BTW, since when criticising others is mutually exclusive with a healthy dose of introspection?

i don't think is nice to call others idiot . - no matter which country there are from .

maybe a different in idea and thinking .

>> This was sarcasm! I am Canadian, ... DUDE!

eg. smoking . i personally don't smoke . for your info .. the exhust flame from cars kill you the same way smoke kill you ,

why not you stay in the room or suggest people to stop driving ?

>> So, to follow your argument, we should accept everything the way it is. Who cares about the Tchernobyl inhabitants who died of cancer after the nuclear catastrophe? Hey! Let's build another of those somewhere else. Would you be interested in heeding your advice and live nearby? Mmm! I dooubt it! Who cares about the Bhopal inhabitants who died? In fact who cares about the untouchables in India? Hey! Life is te way it is? You are either f*cked or you are not! Of course, the ones who have $3 million do not have to beg for money, do not have to live near a nuclear power plant, do not have to live at Bhopal. Honestly, people like you are an embarrassment to the human race. Is there a difference between you and a psychopath?

there are many thing that kill you . and to make it simple we all die sooner or later . is nto how safe you walk your path in life is how much had you enjoy it .

>> Let's copy and past that last argument. Maybe you might understand its content te second time around. ... So, to follow your argument, we should accept everything the way they are. Who cares about the Tchernobyl inhabitants who died of cancer after the nuclear catastrophe? Who cares about the Bhopal inhabitants who died? In fact who cares about the untouchables in India? Hey! Life is te way it is? You are either f*cked or you are not! Of course, the ones who have $3 million do not have to beg for money, do not have to live near a nuclear power plant, do not have to live at Bhopal. Honestly, people like you are an embarrassment to the human race. Is there a difference between you and a psychopath?

lighten up dude you need to cheer up .

when respect is given to other i am sure respect will be granted back .

many problem start from oneself and the simple idea of how you see this world .

>> I have got news for you. I should not (and in fact,... no one) should respect others who do not respect me or do not respect other people. When you smoke in someone else's face or fail to follow proper safety measures because you want that extra one million, or you want to show off your macho car, you are not showing respect for human life and you don't deserve much respect. Sorry, DUDE! I hope that no one come close to running you over, making you handicapped. Hey! DUDE! I hope you heed your advice and ... LIGHTEN UP!

i once heard someone saying . that a monk said whahahh if you find this town bad .

no matter where you go the next town is going to have the same problem .

live and let live .

>> Oh! Now we are including monks! Monks are human beings! NO MORE and NO LESS! DUDE, ... some people look to improve human condition. Of course, those who were born --like you-- with money, I am sure that you do not CARE to have others get a better life. (I have met this guy and I know his background!)

[adjan jb]

So many Dudes posting in this thread.

Are you all closely related ?

[MyPenRye]

eg. smoking . i personally don't smoke . for your info .. the exhust flame from cars kill you the same way smoke kill you ,

why not you stay in the room or suggest people to stop driving ?

Yes, petrol and diesel exhaust fumes quietly go unmentioned in all this fuss about air quality and smoking. But they contain just as bad, if not worse carcinogenic compounds.

On the subject of passive smoking, a few years back they did a test on TV where they took a swab from the inside of the mouth of a non-smoking barmaid in a London pub. They evaluated the levels of nicotine and pronounced that she was running a 50% greater risk of contracting lung cancer

than if she worked in a non-smoking atmosphere.

OH MY GOD! SHOCK HORROR! We're all going to die, the sky is falling in!

What never got analysed, nor mentioned, was that OK she has a 50% greater chance of going down with the big C. But this means that non-smokers working in an entirely non-smoking atmosphere still run the risk of lung cancer. So what is that risk? It has to be pretty small otherwise the decreased risk associated with not smoking is not worth worrying about. So let's pick a number, one in a million? No let's go silly, one in a hundred thousand. So in two hundred thousand non's in a non-smoking atmosphere two will get it against three in a smoking atmosphere.

So to return to MyPenRye's analogy with a guy shooting him being equal to a smoker, the gunman is a pretty lousy shot eh?

Mmmm! I must agree with you! The risk of being killed by a gunman is much higher than by a cigarette smoker! However, the point is that a cigarette still can kill people (and smoking is a pretty darn nuisance). I would prefer to LIMIT my risks rather than adding all of them! That just me! Now, if I liked the smell, you might have an argument as it might make my life more pleasurable and I might be more relaxed and happier,... However, smoking dries my eyes. BTW, I never stated that I was in favour of cars spewing mercury in the air either! So, you and Ta22 should go smoking near a nuclear waste disposal! I assume that you know something about probability! The sum of all of those small risks might --I would think, at the end-- amount to something pretty significant! No? And, BTW, cancer is not the only way 2nd-hand and first-hand smoke can kill you. Please read on.

Here are stats from the American Cancer Association which should be a pretty reliable source of information. http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/..._Indoor_Air.asp

Secondhand smoke is classified as a "known human carcinogen" (cancer-causing agent) by the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the US National Toxicology Program, and the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), a branch of the World Health Organization.

Tobacco smoke contains over 4,000 chemical compounds. More than 60 of these are known or suspected to cause cancer.

Secondhand smoke can be harmful in many ways. In the United States alone, each year it is responsible for:

an estimated 35,000 deaths from heart disease in people who live with smokers but are not current smokers

about 3,400 lung cancer deaths in nonsmoking adults

other respiratory problems in nonsmokers, including coughing, phlegm, chest discomfort, and reduced lung function

150,000 to 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections (such as pneumonia and bronchitis) in children younger than 18 months of age, which result in 7,500 to 15,000 hospitalizations

increases in the number and severity of asthma attacks in about 200,000 to 1 million asthmatic children

increased incidence of middle ear infections in young children

Pregnant women exposed to ETS are also at increased risk of having low birth weight babies.

An issue that continues to be an active focus of scientific research is whether secondhand smoke may increase the risk of breast cancer. Both mainstream and secondhand smoke contain about 20 chemicals that, in high concentrations, cause breast cancer in rodents. Chemicals in tobacco smoke reach breast tissue and are found in breast milk.

The evidence regarding secondhand smoke and breast cancer risk in human studies is controversial, at least in part because the risk has not been shown to be increased in active smokers. One possible explanation for this is that tobacco smoke may have different effects on breast cancer risk in smokers and in those who are just exposed to smoke.

A report from the California Environmental Protection Agency in 2005 concluded that the evidence regarding secondhand smoke and breast cancer is "consistent with a causal association" in younger, mainly premenopausal women. The 2006 US Surgeon General's report, The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke, concluded that there is "suggestive but not sufficient" evidence of a link at this point. In any case, women should be told that this possible link to breast cancer is yet another reason to avoid contact with secondhand smoke.

The 2006 US Surgeon General's report reached several important conclusions:

Secondhand smoke causes premature death and disease in children and in adults who do not smoke.

Children exposed to secondhand smoke are at an increased risk of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), acute respiratory infections, ear problems, and more severe asthma. Smoking by parents causes respiratory symptoms and slows lung growth in their children.

Exposure of adults to secondhand smoke has immediate adverse effects on the cardiovascular system and causes coronary heart disease and lung cancer.

The scientific evidence indicates that there is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke.

Many millions of Americans, both children and adults, are still exposed to secondhand smoke in their homes and workplaces despite substantial progress in tobacco control.

Eliminating smoking in indoor spaces fully protects nonsmokers from exposure to secondhand smoke. Separating smokers from nonsmokers, cleaning the air, and ventilating buildings cannot eliminate exposures of nonsmokers to secondhand smoke.

>> I guess you and Ta22 like to live dangerously. Good! Like I said, ... eat radioactive, dioxin-filled, moldy food in a smoky place surrounded with mines! I dare you!

>> What I am trying to state is that I try to reduce my chance of someone or something killing me, in the short-term or long-term. If you want to take risks, go ahead, but --FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE-- don't force others to take the same risks! Have you ever tried to cross the road without looking first?

So to return to an earlier comment of mine, it's the management who makes the rules based on attracting a certain type/class of customer and if they don't get the custom they consider a change to the rules. I've never been to a bar/pub/nightclub or anywhere where the customers make the rules. If anyone knows of such a place please let me know (PM preferrably, we don't want anyone else learning of this eutopia).

>> You are partly wrong here, I think. While customers don't make the rules, government agencies do as much as owners. I suspect you are for free-enterprise, in which case I would hope that you would be the one carrying the biggest gun! Darn! I love guns!

PS just in case accusations are gonna fly, I've never smoked a cigarette or cigar or pipe in my life so I don't have any kind of vested interest in the subject. I just use that old fashioned thing called personal choice, try it you never know you might just lighten up and enjoy life a bit more.

Edited February 9, 2007 by MyPenRye

[Ta22]

pardon just too lazy to read all your reply . only reach the part you think i was giving you sarcasm

dude - you should relax . you assume too much , and think too much about what people said . just relax ok .

and is not that nice to assume what you said either . have a nice day saving the world ok i will go enjoy myself the way i like

what nuclear ? there are not much nuclear in thailand i hope whahhahahah

is that why you come thailand ? is there nuclear power station in your country ?

dying from stress is more sad then all the above . so i hope you cheer up soon

live and let live

Edited February 9, 2007 by Ta22

[MyPenRye]

pardon just too lazy to read all your reply . only reach the part you think i was giving you sarcasm

dude - you should relax . you assume too much , and think too much about what people said . just relax ok .

and is not that nice to assume what you said either . have a nice day saving the world ok i will go enjoy myself the way i like

what nuclear ? there are not much nuclear in thailand i hope whahhahahah

is that why you come thailand ? is there nuclear power station in your country ?

dying from stress is more sad then all the above . so i hope you cheer up soon

live and let live

Relax? ME? Are you kidding me?

I just recommend a place for non-smokers to go dance and you go ballistic ... as in nuclear ballistic!

Something does not quite jive here (pun intended)!

[marshall]

I have lived in CM now for 2 seasons and have been disappointed with night clubs. If it is for Thais, there is not a dancing floor and the music/songs are in Thai. When there is a bit more of a dancing floor and English music, it is hip-hop and/or a club with no smoking restrictions (like Bubbles and Spicy). Riverside does not have much of a dance floor.

So, where can one dance like in the old country in CM?

Well! There is this little gem. It is located on the second floor in the Lotus Hotel (near Kad Suan Kaew, off Huay Kaew Road, behind the Chiang Mai Orchid). There is a 5 band member Philipino band singing and playing English classic English or Latin songs (if you request them). The floor is huge. The sound is not too loud. The lighting is not too bright or too dark. There are plenty places to sit. The place is huge and I would think smoking would be dissipated fast into the air. The buffet is not great, but some of the a la carte dishes are not bad. The drinks are the usual price for a night club (a bit less than Bubbles though). I think the band plays every night except one. Starting time is 10 pm. The singer is a good-looking woman with a good voice and a real presence. The guitarist is real good.

People,... support this place before it dies. There are not that many people going to it because the marketing sucks. Go there instead of Bubbles (which has DJs playing hip-hop all night long in a smoky atmosphere and drinks that are in the 100 Baths for beer and such). If you are so inclined go to Spicy after, but beware of the smoke and the withdrawal symptoms the day after.

PS: Smokers: Could you please do everyone a favour and smoke outside so that WE non-smoker do NOT get cancer, headaches, and do NOT have to wash our clothes the next day? Thanks for your cooperation.

Hey if the place does not survive, you could always stay home and have your own party, just think your own no smoking venue and your choice of music and you have the whole dance floor to yourself. your dreams have come true and the added bonus your living in cm.

[Rinrada]

How about a LIST of Bars and restaurants in CM that have a COMPLETE Ban on the <deleted>**g Stinking Rotten Smelly Puk inducing habit....mai chooooorp....so Where? ...eh...yes..chai....u tee nai...

[MyPenRye]

Hey if the place does not survive, you could always stay home and have your own party, just think your own no smoking venue and your choice of music and you have the whole dance floor to yourself. your dreams have come true and the added bonus your living in cm.

Survive? Heck! YOU might be on to something!

Methink that places like bubbles and Spciy will soon be filled with non-smokers, as smokers instead of dropping by will be soon be ... dropping ... like flies! I am a bit jealous though that they will be dropping by hospitals too and be taking care of by gorgeous Thai nurses !

[MyPenRye]

How about a LIST of Bars and restaurants in CM that have a COMPLETE Ban on the <deleted>**g Stinking Rotten Smelly Puk inducing habit....mai chooooorp....so Where? ...eh...yes..chai....u tee nai...

Get your forks and knives out .... (I mean spoons) and dig in ... or dig out rather!

Edited February 16, 2007 by MyPenRye

[altman]

well mypenrye it seems to me that the responses you got are indicative of the reason that governments have been forced to pass legislation banning a voluntary action that imperiled all of their citizens.

smokers tend to be antagonistic toward anyone who asks that they not smoke. regardless of the reason, whether because it is obnoxious, deadly, or simply unpleasant. iuf smokers would accept their responsibilities as members of society there wouldn't need to be a government to impose restrictions on everyone. so the fault they ascribe to a government is their own.

lighten up! not around me, please (see i asked nicley. now how will you respond?)

Edited February 16, 2007 by altman