Too many village blackouts, need advice

[DJ54]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Actually, I suggest that it, and the responses stay.

 

My reasoning? Simply that others have the same idea without realising the dangers they are subjecting themselves, their generator and the power company staff to.

 

Crossy - I will leave as is and hopefully everyone reading will see the correct way to hook up.  In my 20s twice breaker switches off.knowxkws on my ass trying to take out bare wires on porch from house I rented and trying to get the dishwasher to work. After that no

electrical projects except replace bulbs etc. as long as pull and plug. 

[genset]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

Actually, I suggest that it, and the responses stay.

 

My reasoning? Simply that others have the same idea without realising the dangers they are subjecting themselves, their generator and the power company staff to.

 

 

Hi DJ,

 

I agree with Crossy,  i don't think anybody wants to censor comment, if anything it adds context to the conversation and highlights common misconceptions and mistakes we are all prone to making, but we do want to help out if and when we can.

 

Nobody can be an expert in every field, but collectively this community has enough knowledge and experience to point each other in the right direction from time to time.

 

Cheers Genset

[connda]

It's part of the 'quaintness' and the ebb and flow of living in a Thai village.  Hey, think on the bright side.  50 years ago many of these villages didn't have electricity or running water.  So the third-world electricity grid is a vast improvement.  Learn to live with it.  Short term solutions include uninterpretable power supplies for your computers and routers, emergency LED lighting for inside the home, solar chargeable appliances such as radios and portable lights; longer term solution?  A generator or a solar grid for the home.  And a generator doesn't need to power the entire home.  Put in additional circuits for just the generator that runs a couple of lights, and fan, and your refrigerator.  Most of these outages don't last more then a few hours.
So embrace it and find workarounds - many 'workarounds' aren't even expensive - you'll be happier!!!

Edited May 19, 2018 by connda

[stropper]

On 5/18/2018 at 11:27 AM, 4MyEgo said:

That simple ?

 

Is your generator noisy ?

 

Does it let out a lot of smoke fumes when on ?

 

How many (kva) does it have ?

 

Brand and would you recommend it to a fellow Aussie ?

 

Any chance of getting a picture of the fuse box to see the turn of handle, I know its a lot to ask, but new at all this.

 

Is it in a shed with a concrete slab on ground and covered with a roof from weather conditions, e.g. rain/flooding ?

 

The cold beer would make it all work the while.

 

 

it is simple, just have a good quality fuse box with only  the  circets you use only when a black out happens, turn off the pea power switch, start the generator in the gararge and away you go , our petrol gene, is 5 kv and that is enough for us, after all it is a black out, most times the tv and internet are also out, what with the storm and tempest to watch who needs tv. a cold beer works for me !

[genset]

On 5/20/2018 at 1:14 PM, stropper said:

it is simple, just have a good quality fuse box with only  the  circets you use only when a black out happens, turn off the pea power switch, start the generator in the gararge and away you go , our petrol gene, is 5 kv and that is enough for us, after all it is a black out, most times the tv and internet are also out, what with the storm and tempest to watch who needs tv. a cold beer works for me !

 

Hi Stropper,

 

Installing a sub-panel with only the circuits you wish to supply with a generator during a power outage is a great idea, but the weak spot is the connection to PEA supply. Flipping the PEA circuit breaker works as long as you remember to do it (or your family members if you're away from home).  The reason i recommend an ATS panel, or device such as that posted by Crossy earlier in the thread, is that they both feature a mechanical interlock (and electrical in the case of a decent ATS panel) which prevent both supplies being connected simultaneously. I don't want put people to sleep by droning on about this issue, but i would also hate to hear about anybody on this forum, being hauled away by the short and curlies for unintentionally injuring or killing a lineman, when its relatively simple to avoid the potential for such an incident to occur.

 

Cheers Genset

Edited May 22, 2018 by genset

[stropper]

in my village no one will touch the electrics, most times its me that does any thing, i really do not think they would know how to start the generator, and most times i will not touch the older houses  as it is so bad in many of the older houses, small wires , rat eaten, broken and exposed terminals, extra cheap safety switches, all sorts of colored wires so when its gen time at our place it is only me that would throw the switches required, our house was wired correctly by a really good thai coledge trained sparkie, if i was not happy with what he done ,i would question him, most times we agreed, never had a problem in 5 years , touch wood! we have many pumps, 2 bores going for the farm and gardens, pool, 3 air cons, 2 fridges, cost 2500 bart a month, i am happy with that as some times the house is lit up like a christmas tree, ps i will try to find what you are advising, it is not easy when you can not converse fluently

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by stropper
add on

[VocalNeal]

On 5/18/2018 at 2:39 PM, Russell17au said:

The old house that I was in out in the village had a knife switch just above the circuit box so I bought another knife switch and mounted it alongside the other one and ran the wires from the 2 knife switches into the circuit box plus I put a separate light switch and light off the inlet side of the grid knife switch so that I would know when the power came back on. It was a simple operation that when the power went off you started the generator and then you throw the grid knife switch off and the generator knife switch on, this disconnects the power from backfeeding into the grid and the grid power could not backfeed into the generator. The small light would tell me that the power was back on so that I could change everything back to normal and then I could turn the small light off. 

I believe it will be or could be better with a single change over switch. It may not be you who does it?

Edited May 22, 2018 by VocalNeal

[sfokevin]

Crossy - Could you post a few pics of your DIY generator enclosure and talk about the sound proofing strategy you devised? ;-)...

 

Automatic transfer switches are pretty easy to source... Lazada even sells them...  https://www.lazada.co.th/products/2-automatic-transfer-ac-2p-63a-i100528309-s100607209.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.12.7f2b1957Amj4M8&search=1

 

Also someone mentioned that the internet also goes down with the power... You might be able to prevent this by just getting a UPS battery backup to power the modem/router... (I have a laptop so no need to power a computer)... Just make sure it is user programmable to shut off any alarm it may have ? 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by sfokevin

[Mattd]

1 hour ago, sfokevin said:

Also someone mentioned that the internet also goes down with the power... You might be able to prevent this by just getting a UPS battery backup to power the modem/router... (I have a laptop so no need to power a computer)... Just make sure it is user programmable to shut off any alarm it may have ? 

The issue with the internet is not necessarily related to the lack of power supply in your house, I have two internet providers in my house and both modems are connected to a UPS, if the power fails locally, then the net itself normally goes down as well, this, I think, is because the ISP's have electrically powered boosters fitted inline and the power is lost to these, hence no internet, despite the modems being powered up, not a lot that can be done about this, the main things that I miss in a power outage are the water pump, fridge running and fans to keep cool.

[sfokevin]

^^^ Agreed Mattt... As I said "might"... In my situation the internet will still work when the power goes out and I power the modem/router myself... I live close to the city so the infrastructure is different... 

Edited May 22, 2018 by sfokevin

[4MyEgo]

On 5/22/2018 at 10:21 AM, genset said:

 

Hi Stropper,

 

Installing a sub-panel with only the circuits you wish to supply with a generator during a power outage is a great idea, but the weak spot is the connection to PEA supply. Flipping the PEA circuit breaker works as long as you remember to do it (or your family members if you're away from home).  The reason i recommend an ATS panel, or device such as that posted by Crossy earlier in the thread, is that they both feature a mechanical interlock (and electrical in the case of a decent ATS panel) which prevent both supplies being connected simultaneously. I don't want put people to sleep by droning on about this issue, but i would also hate to hear about anybody on this forum, being hauled away by the short and curlies for unintentionally injuring or killing a lineman, when its relatively simple to avoid the potential for such an incident to occur.

 

Cheers Genset

If you know of anyone who could provide an approximate cost to provide, and install a generator and the switches you talking about please let me know by either posting it here or by PM, thanks

[Crossy]

Although this is a subjective observation (our genset doesn't have an hour meter) we do seem to be getting more and longer power failures than we have had previously. Outages >30 minutes are occurring every week now.

 

[OJAS]

9 hours ago, Crossy said:

Outages >30 minutes are occurring every week now.

The problems in our village lately have, irritatingly, been more with <1-second outages which, are, however, still long enough for the TV and wifi modems to go down and then spend what feels like ages re-booting. They always seem to occur whenever there's something interesting on the box or I'm browsing the internet! Who or what causes these micro-outages - PEA engineers with a warped sense of humour playing silly b****rs, maybe??

Edited May 26, 2018 by OJAS

[Crossy]

58 minutes ago, OJAS said:

The problems in our village lately have, irritatingly, been more with <1-second outages which, are, however, still long enough for the TV and wifi modems to go down and then spend what feels like ages re-booting. They always seem to occur whenever there's something interesting on the box or I'm browsing the internet! Who or what causes these micro-outages - PEA engineers with a warped sense of humour playing silly b****rs, maybe??

That's why we have UPSs on out routers, PCs (of course) and TV set.

 

These mini-cuts are invariably the result of poor HV switching management.

[billd766]

9 hours ago, Crossy said:

That's why we have UPSs on out routers, PCs (of course) and TV set.

 

These mini-cuts are invariably the result of poor HV switching management.

 

I have a UPS on the computers and the router but not on the TV as it isn't on that much and I don't watch it anyway.

[Crossy]

For those who asked about our generator enclosure, this is it.

 

 

Basically a 15mm plywood box about 20cm bigger than the genset all round.

 

12" industrial extractor fan (guard? what guard?) at each end powered by the generator, suck in on the left, blow out on the right same as the generator airflow. The baffles provide some sound deadening at the air entry and exit.

 

It's lined with 20mm polystyrene foam which I covered with some speaker foam (the stuff used inside speaker cabinets) after it was still too noisy. I suspect the speaker foam alone would be as good.

 

It's not up to commercial "silent" enclosure standards but it does make a significant difference and with the genset in it's current location the noise is directed away from the living areas.

 

 

 

 

 

[canopy]

Is it possible to find generators with inverters in Thailand? I haven't seen any at the likes of homepro, watsadu. And what about reputable brands like say Honda?

 

[bankruatsteve]

12 minutes ago, canopy said:

Is it possible to find generators with inverters in Thailand? I haven't seen any at the likes of homepro, watsadu. And what about reputable brands like say Honda?

 

Are you referring to gas/diesel generators?  Haven't even heard of such a beast.  What do you think the advantage for that would be?

[Fruit Trader]

52 minutes ago, canopy said:

Is it possible to find generators with inverters in Thailand? I haven't seen any at the likes of homepro, watsadu. And what about reputable brands like say Honda?

 

A near by computer store has a tiny Honda inverter generator so I guess they are available.

[canopy]

57 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Are you referring to gas/diesel generators?  Haven't even heard of such a beast.  What do you think the advantage for that would be?

Gas or diesel would be welcome. Inverter Generator Advantages:

 

• High quality power output
• Lighter, smaller size
• Higher fuel efficiency
• Quiet operation
• Parallel capability

 

Note this list is from Honda who makes them.

 

[canopy]

In the boonies where I am in if there hasn't been a strong wind or heavy rain for a while, such an event is likely to knock out the power. The PEA knows instantly and I don't even bother calling anymore and they get it back up in usually 40 minutes flat. But this happens so incredibly frequently I've had enough and would really like to turn on a generator and continue life normally instead of being forced by these idiots to dumb down to a candle light existence. The first several outages are quaint, but It gets old. And I have watched this rickety power situation long enough to understand it's just the way it's going to be indefinitely into the future. The mindset here is it's easy to just blame the weather and do nothing to achieve reliable power, thus in the face of failure the same mistakes are simply repeated over and over again.

 

Other generators would certainly work, but a small, quiet Honda inverter generator would seem so much more ideal. If only I could find one. Can anyone suggest if and where these might be sold?

 

[Fruit Trader]

2 hours ago, canopy said:

Other generators would certainly work, but a small, quiet Honda inverter generator would seem so much more ideal. If only I could find one. Can anyone suggest if and where these might be sold?

 

A little bit of research and some calls maybe.

https://powerproducts.honda.th.com/dcs-wbs/product-type-display.action?productType.productTypeId=655364

 

http://www.crthailand.com/product-detail.php?p_id=Mjcy

 

[sfokevin]

The problem with a Honda is that they are hugely overpriced here?... Most likely due to some kind of import tariff... But there seem to be locally made alternatives...

 

This website has a good selection of small inverter generators and show pricing

http://www.hardwaremart.net/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&category_id=120&page=shop.browse&Itemid=64&limitstart=0&limit=50

Edited May 30, 2018 by sfokevin

[Fruit Trader]

1 hour ago, sfokevin said:

The problem with a Honda is that they are hugely overpriced here?... Most likely due to some kind of import tariff... But there seem to be locally made alternatives...

Honda power products are not cheap anywhere a EU10i is over $1000 US $1200 AU

Edited May 30, 2018 by Fruit Trader

[canopy]

Let me add some price clarity. The Honda EU2200i costs $999 in the US (32000 baht). In Thailand it is called the EU22i and can be ordered from subtanyanan for 37000 baht . So it costs 16% more in Thailand. On the other hand other generator brands of comparable size sold at hardware stores in Thailand are about 3 times cheaper than the Honda costing just 13000 baht or so.

 

[Fruit Trader]

2 hours ago, canopy said:

Let me add some price clarity. The Honda EU2200i costs $999 in the US (32000 baht). In Thailand it is called the EU22i and can be ordered from subtanyanan for 37000 baht . So it costs 16% more in Thailand. On the other hand other generator brands of comparable size sold at hardware stores in Thailand are about 3 times cheaper than the Honda costing just 13000 baht or so.

 

Be sure not to mix up the EU2200i and the EU22i as they are not the same spec and price. 

The EU2200i is 120 Volts
 

[canopy]

You may not be aware this is actually a pretty common consideration with AC devices. There is a lot of information on this here and elsewhere on the net if you need more information.