Guest houses must now get a hotel license--any info?

[chickenrunCM]

9 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

What you all are seeing is just the price of licenses going up 300%. Tell me one thing that cant be bought in Thai$$land, one thing.

you really think that customers would accept a increase of prices? look at Vietnam, 200% higher quality of accomidatins and cheaper. even if the guesthouse will open in 2 month agin, they will loose 6 month until back to normal business and 50% will not survive, same as restaurants, massageshops and all tourist related businesses.  And if it takes longer it will hurt 70% and every second shop will close. 

The good thing is, now the police will not get any baht from any shop/restaurant anymore. Business is down 75% in Chiang Mai. And we have 1 month before High Season, but most of the guesthouses are closed. So no high Season only Chinese shoping groups and empty places.

Well done goverment, changing something without a plan. Cant wait the elections, in the north the militar will get less than 10%

[chickenrunCM]

On 6/8/2018 at 5:19 PM, Loaded said:

drove around the moat and Tha Pae Gate this afternoon and didn't see a closed hotel.

i see 20 within 2 mnutes drive

[chickenrunCM]

19 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

What you all are seeing is just the price of licenses going up 300%. Tell me one thing that cant be bought in Thai$$land, one thing.

its not about the price of the license its about there is only 1 law about short term accomidations. If you are a 400 room hotel or a 3 room guesthouse, so its clear that this not works. It would be the same if you are a tailor but your shop has to apply the same rules like a 500 worker Fashion factory. Or you are a tutoring teacher but your teaching room must follow the law for a 2000 kids school

[JAZZDOG]

13 hours ago, johnoko said:

From what I understand the new law should come into affect this coming Aug. but the problem is that the police is now already closing down business. Even the ones that already are in the process of obtaining a hotel license. And its not that the guesthouses are not willing to implement changes but it takes time to get the building permit approved and also to arrange financing for the project. So that is why some guesthouse owners went to petition the government to ask if they could have the time or some more time to implement the required changes. And also for dispensation for long established business which for example cant meet the 30% green requirement. To my knowledge most people don't have any problem implementing the new safety  standards. And it has long been unclear as from when the law will come into affect as the date has been moved several times and this was never communicated clearly. Even government offices weren't able to give out this information or would give conflicting statements

 

Many items make it nearly impossible or economically unsound to retrofit a building ie; widen hallways ect.

[JAZZDOG]

1 hour ago, chickenrunCM said:

its not about the price of the license its about there is only 1 law about short term accomidations. If you are a 400 room hotel or a 3 room guesthouse, so its clear that this not works. It would be the same if you are a tailor but your shop has to apply the same rules like a 500 worker Fashion factory. Or you are a tutoring teacher but your teaching room must follow the law for a 2000 kids school

You don't understand what I am saying, seen it happen before in third world countries. When laws are made that don't make sense and are a total catch-22 it is never by accident. You really believe it is a life-safety issue. The carnage on the roads is and you see how concerned they are over that. It's purpose is to create an alternate channel to the process to generate more fees. You really believe they will close every guesthouse along with most of the hotels in the country and lose all the fees they are pocketing. Who is going to fill all those floors of row houses? Whenever you look at these situations who has the most to gain? The hotel lobby isn't big enough to take on this many people, especially the wealthy that own many blocks of these buildings that this fiasco will basically condemn.

 

Now say they create a new license available for say a different product like Rooms for Rent and charge 50K for this new watered down license. Install some fire safety devices, fire escapes. Do the math, follow the money. No way the hotel lobby can match that deal because if you include all the bigger hotels effected there aren't that many left. The seven raided in Patty last month were all 100+ room hotels. 

[Loaded]

12 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

What you all are seeing is just the price of licenses going up 300%. Tell me one thing that cant be bought in Thai$$land, one thing.

Love

[johnoko]

10 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

Many items make it nearly impossible or economically unsound to retrofit a building ie; widen hallways ect.

And if people rent the property and the owner is not willing to invest it doesn't make sense for the person renting the property to invest this kind of money. If its your own property you might want to consider the long term write off. But otherwise you better of closing your guesthouse. 

[JAZZDOG]

1 minute ago, johnoko said:

And if people rent the property and the owner is not willing to invest it doesn't make sense for the person renting the property to invest this kind of money. If its your own property you might want to consider the long term write off. But otherwise you better of closing your guesthouse. 

There are always alternative ways to get licensed in the third  world.

[johnoko]

Just now, JAZZDOG said:

There are always alternative ways to get licensed in the third  world.

yeah but will this hold up when you get an inspection from a team out of Bangkok for example. Or will you remain open for blackmail as they know you didn't meet the requirements. Of course you buy your self a license but then we they inspect you in few years you still end up implementing the changes  

[JAZZDOG]

1 minute ago, johnoko said:

yeah but will this hold up when you get an inspection from a team out of Bangkok for example. Or will you remain open for blackmail as they know you didn't meet the requirements. Of course you buy your self a license but then we they inspect you in few years you still end up implementing the changes  

No, it will be a legit license but licensing a different animal than the rules governing mega hotels. The same regulations now cover anywhere between one room and 2000 rooms. That's insane and the authorities are blindly running with it. No way in hell ALL guesthouses and hotels that can't possibly conform are going to be put out of business. You are talking about tens of thousands of businesses affecting millions of people, mostly Thais. If that were the case the story would be huge and everywhere in the media. It's not, just a few articles involving additional issues. All these were never closed down and are taking reservations. The cost of doing business will increase but common sense will tell you that the majority of accommodations in the country are not going to disappear. Think about it?

[MekkOne]

12 hours ago, chickenrunCM said:

you really think that customers would accept a increase of prices? look at Vietnam, 200% higher quality of accomidatins and cheaper. even if the guesthouse will open in 2 month agin, they will loose 6 month until back to normal business and 50% will not survive, same as restaurants, massageshops and all tourist related businesses.  And if it takes longer it will hurt 70% and every second shop will close. 

The good thing is, now the police will not get any baht from any shop/restaurant anymore. Business is down 75% in Chiang Mai. And we have 1 month before High Season, but most of the guesthouses are closed. So no high Season only Chinese shoping groups and empty places.

Well done goverment, changing something without a plan. Cant wait the elections, in the north the militar will get less than 10%

With this last move they won't get much in the south either, in Krabi they went looking ONLY for hostels with hundreds of illegal small hotels around, in Phi Phi they closed 203 hotel/GH/Hostels on 251 present on the island (it's low season no harm done they say) and it is really not clear, especially for places that are not fitting the Hotel (I mean under 4 rooms or 20 guests), what is the procedure to follow, apparently local authority know shit about it too.

You're right also about where the tourist are gonna go if the prices of the accommodations in Thailand are rising too much, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia are offering decent quality services at better price, when the next season the country will have 60% of the accommodations left (this number coming from a news article where TAT was estimating the number of illegals hotels) Thailand will be 3rd word country for real.

[MekkOne]

6 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

No, it will be a legit license but licensing a different animal than the rules governing mega hotels. The same regulations now cover anywhere between one room and 2000 rooms. That's insane and the authorities are blindly running with it. No way in hell ALL guesthouses and hotels that can't possibly conform are going to be put out of business. You are talking about tens of thousands of businesses affecting millions of people, mostly Thais. If that were the case the story would be huge and everywhere in the media. It's not, just a few articles involving additional issues. All these were never closed down and are taking reservations. The cost of doing business will increase but common sense will tell you that the majority of accommodations in the country are not going to disappear. Think about it?

You're right, we can think about it but do "they"? (and you know what I mean with "they"), the Hotel act itself it's fine IMHO this problems are all about the Building act (that has been modified) and the places that are not eligible to be ruled under the Hotel act.

[JAZZDOG]

3 minutes ago, MekkOne said:

You're right, we can think about it but do "they"? (and you know what I mean with "they"), the Hotel act itself it's fine IMHO this problems are all about the Building act (that has been modified) and the places that are not eligible to be ruled under the Hotel act.

It's either on of two things. They never thought thru the Regs they approved or more likely they knew it would create a clusterf*^k whereas making it virtually impossible for tens of thousands of businesses operating for decades to comply. New classes of accommodations will be invented  creating more revenue. Guesthouses will now be Rooms for Rent, same same but different.

[MekkOne]

1 hour ago, JAZZDOG said:

New classes of accommodations will be invented  creating more revenue. Guesthouses will now be Rooms for Rent, same same but different.

This is nonsense, there are already different classes of accommodations, it's a law to regulate it that it's missed...

[heybruce]

The businesses that are being closed are businesses that have been operating for years if not decades, businesses that know the unwritten rules and unofficial expenses that were required to operate.  The rules have been changed in a big way, in a manner that could put a lot of people out of work and possibly out of their homes, and leave banks with loans that aren't being paid and properties the banks don't want to own.

 

I don't know if this is a sinister plot to accommodate some well connected people who stand to profit at the expense of all these small business owners, or just an example of government idiocy that can't be reversed because someone will lose face.  I just know that decent people who struggle to get by are being hurt.

[JAZZDOG]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The businesses that are being closed are businesses that have been operating for years if not decades, businesses that know the unwritten rules and unofficial expenses that were required to operate.  The rules have been changed in a big way, in a manner that could put a lot of people out of work and possibly out of their homes, and leave banks with loans that aren't being paid and properties the banks don't want to own.

 

I don't know if this is a sinister plot to accommodate some well connected people who stand to profit at the expense of all these small business owners, or just an example of government idiocy that can't be reversed because someone will lose face.  I just know that decent people who struggle to get by are being hurt.

Another nail in the coffin of reasons to live here. Don't know the number of businesses affected but the seven they raided in Patty were very nice medium-large hotels. If that is representative and this is not enforced selectively and arbitrarily it could be 10,000 plus closures and millions affected. It absolutely sucks because I know how hard it is and the long hours it takes to run a small mom and pop guesthouse. How clueless when there are so many issues that could be addressed.

[Loaded]

I drove down soi 1 Ratchadamnoen and soi 7 Moon Muang yesterday as both had been mentioned but I only saw one guest house/hotel closed in both the sois. The vast majority were operating normally.

[cmsally]

54 minutes ago, Loaded said:

I drove down soi 1 Ratchadamnoen and soi 7 Moon Muang yesterday as both had been mentioned but I only saw one guest house/hotel closed in both the sois. The vast majority were operating normally.

Some that have been ordered to close are still operational especially on weekends. Despite the threat of fines which apparently are levied at 400 Bt per day and will be charged retroactively they are still open because they need to be to survive! 

The fact that fines have already been threatened when the law doesn't come into effect until August should already be a pointer as to how not everything seems to be in order!

[MekkOne]

2 hours ago, cmsally said:

Some that have been ordered to close are still operational especially on weekends. Despite the threat of fines which apparently are levied at 400 Bt per day and will be charged retroactively they are still open because they need to be to survive! 

The fact that fines have already been threatened when the law doesn't come into effect until August should already be a pointer as to how not everything seems to be in order!

in Krabi thy did fines to people, 10k, 20k and someone 40k, someone was fined 20k for 2 plastic cones on the road aside the building for delimitation of the parking spot... Maybe they do not apply the same law national-wide (as always).

[WinnieTheKhwai]

19 hours ago, cmsally said:

Some that have been ordered to close are still operational especially on weekends. 

 

What is special about weekends?

 

 

17 hours ago, MekkOne said:

in Krabi thy did fines to people, 10k, 20k and someone 40k, someone was fined 20k for 2 plastic cones on the road aside the building for delimitation of the parking spot... 

 

GOOD!  And far too lenient a fine for the parking spot hoarders.   I can't think of a strong enough punishment for that. ?

 

 

[cmsally]

Well they won't get inspected on weekends will they, it is not a work day.

The people opposite us have completely blocked off their road parking space with cones and signs, good luck fining them , they are police !

Around where we are the parking spot takers are the employees of hotels that don't have enough parking spaces ?

[Loaded]

We looked at a few plots inside the moat a few years ago before the Chinese arrived. Prices weren't too bad at that time. We were offered one of the shop houses built on Ratchadamnoen around 5 or 6 years ago for 7 million off plan. They probably sell for 3 times that now.

 

However, most of the land deeds we looked at were subject to the Tessabahn taking back a percentage of the land at any future time - I guess for road widening, development, whatever. For this reason, we didn't buy inside the moat.

 

There were also conditions about new buildings needing to start a specific distance from the centre line of the road in front to allow off-road parking in front of the building so a lot of the usable land became unusable.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Loaded

[chickenrunCM]

On 6/11/2018 at 8:26 AM, Loaded said:

I drove down soi 1 Ratchadamnoen and soi 7 Moon Muang yesterday as both had been mentioned but I only saw one guest house/hotel closed in both the sois. The vast majority were operating normally.

Then you are blind! in soi 7 there are 4 closed, soi 9 there are 5 closed, there are many still open who will (would) be closed because for sure the closed place will not accept that anyone will operate who also not have licene or meet the regulations

[Loaded]

54 minutes ago, chickenrunCM said:

Then you are blind! in soi 7 there are 4 closed, soi 9 there are 5 closed, there are many still open who will (would) be closed because for sure the closed place will not accept that anyone will operate who also not have licene or meet the regulations

Not what I saw. I did enter from soi 1 and turned left so may have missed some down the top end.

 

I didn't mention soi 9.

 

You seem angry so I guess one of the closed ones belongs to you.

[MekkOne]

2 hours ago, Loaded said:

Not what I saw. I did enter from soi 1 and turned left so may have missed some down the top end.

 

I didn't mention soi 9.

 

You seem angry so I guess one of the closed ones belongs to you.

Is right to be upset, it's a strange law.

Edited June 12, 2018 by MekkOne
mispell

[Loaded]

14 hours ago, MekkOne said:

Is right to be upset, it's a strange law.

Guest Houses and Hotels should be licensed. That's not strange. I can't imagine imagine investing in one without a license.

 

If it had been difficult and hadn't been enforced before, you'd've needed to be very foolhardy to put your cash into one imo.

[MekkOne]

2 hours ago, Loaded said:

Guest Houses and Hotels should be licensed. That's not strange. I can't imagine imagine investing in one without a license.

 

If it had been difficult and hadn't been enforced before, you'd've needed to be very foolhardy to put your cash into one imo.

So, if you have a small GH or Hostel (I MEAN LESS THAN 4 ROOM AND NO MORE THAN 20 GUESTS) you don't need an hotel license, you have to register your business at the local office (amphoe) saying to them that you accepting guest. This is the law and this is how some of this places where registered and licensed (they were not illegal). Fact i s that in some provinces this places has been shout down in others no, in Hua Hin big hotels with FAKE licenses are still open due to their connections with local administrations... So you understand that chickenrunCM is IMHO rightfully upset if he had a similar business (run by the wife or a relative) that has been shout down by a law that is not meat to be for this kind of accommodations. So I think they are applying the law to a grey area kind of accommodations that were probably thinking to be OK with the documents they had.

[cmsally]

Some had a hotel license but were hit retroactively by the building license. So could have been completely legal and then not because of a change of law. It is a time for investors in Thailand to be very worried, the law can be changed at any time!

Imagine starting a game of chess with the rules agreed upon and then just as you are set to win the rules are suddenly changed by your opponent. hardly fair play and how can you ever win if your opponent has complete control over the rules ?

[JAZZDOG]

2 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Some had a hotel license but were hit retroactively by the building license. So could have been completely legal and then not because of a change of law. It is a time for investors in Thailand to be very worried, the law can be changed at any time!

Imagine starting a game of chess with the rules agreed upon and then just as you are set to win the rules are suddenly changed by your opponent. hardly fair play and how can you ever win if your opponent has complete control over the rules ?

Not if you can pay under the table to get your Queen back.

[MekkOne]

1 minute ago, cmsally said:

Some had a hotel license but were hit retroactively by the building license. So could have been completely legal and then not because of a change of law. It is a time for investors in Thailand to be very worried, the law can be changed at any time!

Imagine starting a game of chess with the rules agreed upon and then just as you are set to win the rules are suddenly changed by your opponent. hardly fair play and how can you ever win if your opponent has complete control over the rules ?

from a News Website, right now (about the situation in the south were they found an Island with 90% of 'illegal' hotels

 

‘From our in depth investigation on *** we have found that most of hotel operators will be unable to submit for accommodation licenses because they don’t have land possession documents. Some hotel rooms and building sizes are not up to standard when we check against the standards demanded by the Hotel Act.”

 

“Relevant officials might have to review some of the ministerial regulations again in order to solve this local issue. We hope that a way can be found so these illegal hotels will be able to comply and become legal by law. They will not be able to continue operation if they can’t comply.”

 

In a few words, again we start something without thinking at the consequences...