snoop1130 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Investigators say identify Russian military unit in MH17 downing FILE PHOTO: A Malaysian air crash investigator inspects the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, near the village of Hrabove (Grabovo) in Donetsk region, Ukraine, July 22, 2014. REUTERS/Maxim Zmeyev/File Photo BUNNIK, NETHERLANDS (Reuters) - Prosecutors investigating the downing of flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine in 2014 said on Thursday they had identified the missile used to shoot down the plane as coming from Russia's armed forces. Wilbert Paulissen, head of the crime squad of the Netherlands' national police, said the missile was fired from Russia's 53rd Anti-Aircraft Brigade. "All the vehicles in a convoy carrying the missile were part of the Russian armed forces", he told a televised news conference. Russia has denied involvement in the incident. -- © Copyright Reuters 2018-5-24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chickenslegs Posted May 24, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, snoop1130 said: Russia has denied involvement in the incident. Seems we have heard that phrase quite a few times recently. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Topdoc Posted May 24, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2018 This is a re-run of the old news story perhaps timed to discredit Russia ahead of the World Cup. Did the JIT even consider the possibility that it could have been a MIG? Why did Ukrainian air traffic control direct the MH17 right over the war zone? Why has Ukraine's security service confiscated the recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control and the crew of the MH17? 1 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 5 hours ago, Topdoc said: This is a re-run of the old news story perhaps timed to discredit Russia ahead of the World Cup. Did the JIT even consider the possibility that it could have been a MIG? Why did Ukrainian air traffic control direct the MH17 right over the war zone? Why has Ukraine's security service confiscated the recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control and the crew of the MH17? No, fresh news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 5 hours ago, Topdoc said: This is a re-run of the old news story perhaps timed to discredit Russia ahead of the World Cup. Did the JIT even consider the possibility that it could have been a MIG? Why did Ukrainian air traffic control direct the MH17 right over the war zone? Why has Ukraine's security service confiscated the recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control and the crew of the MH17? 5p? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topdoc Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 18 minutes ago, stevenl said: fresh news Fresh 'news' but the same old conclusion and their proof this time is the actual missile casing with some Russian writing on it. It's in surprisingly good condition too, the missile casing. The whole thing sounds a bit like the recent 'news' about the Russian military grade novichok. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StreetCowboy Posted May 24, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Topdoc said: Fresh 'news' but the same old conclusion and their proof this time is the actual missile casing with some Russian writing on it. It's in surprisingly good condition too, the missile casing. The whole thing sounds a bit like the recent 'news' about the Russian military grade novichok. If the conclusion is correct, then every piece of new information will bring us back to it. Maybe you guys have forgotten how truth, facts and logic work 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topdoc Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said: 5p? It's a truly horrific incident but it's worse to false accuse or to accuse without sufficient evidence. I remember the day very well but found it impossible to believe how the msm newspapers could be so quick to judge the Russians, even as the plane was still smoking on the ground. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOTIRIOS Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 ...the charades go on..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
car720 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Nary a Russian who is always tanked up on vodka. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topdoc Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Incredible to see them still trotting out the already debunked video with a buk on the volvo trailer and the billboard in the background showing this location was under the control of Ukrainian armed forces! (see billboard at at 4m48) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proboscis Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 13 hours ago, Topdoc said: Fresh 'news' but the same old conclusion and their proof this time is the actual missile casing with some Russian writing on it. It's in surprisingly good condition too, the missile casing. The whole thing sounds a bit like the recent 'news' about the Russian military grade novichok. Are you saying that novichok was not used against that Russian pair in Salisbury? If so, please enlighten us as to what was used and how this "conspiracy" was undertaken. And when you are finished, perhaps you could then enlighten us as to how the Dutch prosecutor's claims are so far from the mark. Or else, go away and stop wasting everyone's time! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dick dasterdly Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 It seems fairly obvious that the 'Cold War' has been renewed in earnest ☹️. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Renegade Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 16 hours ago, snoop1130 said: Prosecutors investigating the downing of flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine in 2014 said on Thursday they had identified the missile used to shoot down the plane as coming from Russia's armed forces. Wilbert Paulissen, head of the crime squad of the Netherlands' national police, said the missile was fired from Russia's 53rd Anti-Aircraft Brigade. There is a very big difference between identifying the missile used and who actually fired it. There will be more than 1 Russian unit carrying or using Russian made missiles, and of course none will have disappeared to be sold on the black market. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roadman Posted May 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2018 The problem the Russians had was that social media nailed them within 12 hours of the missile hitting the jet with the intercepted comms between the Russian officer in charge of the missile unit and the separatist who fired it being released, along with the photos and video of the missile unit minus the missile being quickly moved back into Russian territory. It was an error but it was still a stuff up by the Russian officer as the intercepted comms showed. That being that the missile unit was left in the control of some one who was shown how to target lock and launch the missile but was not qualified in the very first instance that once the missile radar locked on the jet did not have the sensibility to identify what he was about to launch at. Another Russian stuff up. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, Roadman said: The problem the Russians had was that social media nailed them within 12 hours of the missile hitting the jet with the intercepted comms between the Russian officer in charge of the missile unit and the separatist who fired it being released, along with the photos and video of the missile unit minus the missile being quickly moved back into Russian territory. It was an error but it was still a stuff up by the Russian officer as the intercepted comms showed. That being that the missile unit was left in the control of some one who was shown how to target lock and launch the missile but was not qualified in the very first instance that once the missile radar locked on the jet did not have the sensibility to identify what he was about to launch at. Another Russian stuff up. Quite possibly, and it reminds me of the US 'stuff up' over Iran flight 655 ☹️. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrabbit Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 45 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said: Quite possibly, and it reminds me of the US 'stuff up' over Iran flight 655 ☹️. but the Americans admitted fault and compensated the families of the victims. they didn't try to confuse the issue like Russia is with things like RT having a documentary with a supposed photograph of a Ukrainian SU25 ground attack aircraft shooting down MH17 with a 757 in the picture instead of a 777. The rebels were heard boasting over the radio that they had shot down a military transport. For those that say the Ukrainians had BUK missiles as well should realise that they didn't need AA as the rebels didn't have any military aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topdoc Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Isn't it bizarre how the elderberry bush in the video was still in full bloom on the alleged date of 17th July despite experienced botanists saying that the elderberry bush in this region blossoms around the end of May / beginning of June? And we can clearly see that the flowers in the botanists garden have completely disappeared before the end of June. The video is only 11+ minutes long but well worth watching 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 The Malaysian government might consider suing Russia in the International Court of Justice. In the alternative, the survivors might sue Russia in Malaysian court. As Malaysia Airlines operates out of Russia it would also sue Russia in Russian courts - though that would be just a legal fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twix38 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 What do Russia and Iraq have in common? Comical Ali Russia's M.O. in all criminal or dubious actions is to deny. Implausible deniability is the rule followed by prove it! Unfortunately most people have common sense and an understanding of Russian behaviour in all these matters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topdoc Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 hours ago, twix38 said: Unfortunately most people have common sense and an understanding of Russian behaviour in all these matters Not to mention the thugs in Kiev....... have you seen the news lately? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobFord Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 7 hours ago, The Renegade said: There is a very big difference between identifying the missile used and who actually fired it. There will be more than 1 Russian unit carrying or using Russian made missiles, and of course none will have disappeared to be sold on the black market. Don’t worry, they know who the crew is and those boys are in deep trouble. Take your pick, criminal procedures in a Dutch court, or a bullet to the head. We provide partially anonymized information regarding 14 officers of the 2nd Battalion of the 53rd Brigade, including the commanders of the Buk unit vehicles within the battalion. https://www.bellingcat.com/ The investigation is confirming what Bellingcat has already found. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topdoc Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 58 minutes ago, RobFord said: Bellingcat Bellingcat is a group of people who make use of internet and social media to support their theories. They are funded by George Soros who has warned that Russia's expansionism poses an existential threat to the EU and called for greater material support for Ukraine. So don't expect anything impartial from them! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobFord Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 27 minutes ago, Topdoc said: Bellingcat is a group of people who make use of internet and social media to support their theories. They are funded by George Soros who has warned that Russia's expansionism poses an existential threat to the EU and called for greater material support for Ukraine. So don't expect anything impartial from them! Here’s a link to the Wikipedia page regarding Bellingcat. Totally cool. Bellingcat (also rendered bell¿ngcat) is a website founded by the British citizen journalist Eliot Higgins. Bellingcat publishes the findings of citizen journalist investigations into war and the criminal underground. The site's contributors also publish guides to their techniques, as well as case studies.[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellingcat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topdoc Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Keep in mind too that the Ukrainian govt has a veto on what evidence can be seen by the public... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobFord Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 20 minutes ago, Topdoc said: Keep in mind too that the Ukrainian govt has a veto on what evidence can be seen by the public... No mention of veto, and of coarse they have a non disclosure agreement. What planet are you from? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topdoc Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 10 hours ago, RobFord said: What planet are you from? Definitely not planet wikipedia! https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/05/the-philip-cross-affair/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topdoc Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, RobFord said: No mention of veto "requires consensus among the parties before information regarding the investigation will be released" i.e. if Kiev says we better not release information about the MIG, then it's not released Edited May 26, 2018 by Topdoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Topdoc said: "requires consensus among the parties before information regarding the investigation will be released" i.e. if Kiev says we better not release information about the MIG, then it's not released Good, because there was no mig. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topdoc Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 It is really extremely easy to explain why this investigation is flawed. Ask yourself, who are the suspects in this case? There are only 2 suspects: Either the Russians did it OR the Ukrainians did it. Now ask yourself, why is one of the suspects on the investigation team? Even a child can see this investigation is flawed. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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