Jittery junta issues threat over plan to scrap charter

[yellowboat]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

said there would be consequences if it disobeyed the law.

What kind of stupid threat is that ?  It was installed by a referendum which was under a climate of duress.  It can be removed by the same method.  Tho the army will again create duress for the Thai people.

 

Duress was created by the army saying to the Thai people to approve the charter or there will be election delays. 

[Eligius]

19 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

What kind of stupid threat is that ?  It was installed by a referendum which was under a climate of duress.  It can be removed by the same method.  Tho the army will again create duress for the Thai people.

 

Duress was created by the army saying to the Thai people to approve the charter or there will be election delays. 

Right on! The 'Constitution' is invalid, null and void and a legal abortion from the very get go. It was never allowed to be publicly discussed (on pain of 10 years' jail, if a negative comment about it was made). It has no right to exist whatsoever. It is a legal non-entity - a sham, and a disgrace.

 

Get rid of it. Brave of Thanathorn to call out and demand the first major thing that needs to be done: shred the bogus 'Constitution'. Good on him!

 

Watch Thanathorn here. Unlike that creepy old Establishment-serving 'young politician', relative (and clone) of Abhisit, Parit, Thanathorn has real charisma, a meaningful agenda and guts (so it is beginning to seem). I hope he will get support:

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Eligius

[coulson]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

“They should think twice about whatever they do. They shouldn’t consider laws as obstacles,” Prayut said. “Laws are there to create justice. It is not every party that comes out to complain.”

Not every party? The dems, PT and now this fresh branded voice of a new generation are all on the other side of the military fence.

 

What a laugh, reconciliation may be achieved afterall. It seems everyone is becoming united AGAINST the greens, and they can't even take credit for it because it wasn't the intention.

 

Where is this junta video on the 4 years of achievements? I need a good laugh. Even another poem would suffice, it's about that time also.

[Happyman58]

2 hours ago, DoctorG said:

Parties should definitely avoid making this sort of pronouncement. They can certainly plan to do it, but they should not give the junta an excuse to halt the election process.

Stable countries usually have one or two constitutions in their history. The constitution is meaningless if each subsequent government just makes up their own to suit themselves.

The next one needs to be a good one, for all Thais.

They don't need any excuses to not have an election because they have already decided their won't be one. This Pm might as well say I am a dictator and I am here for life. Lump it or leave it

[tingtongtourist]

38 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

Made much more difficult by the fact that tomorrow, Prayuth and Mr Piggy will be yeasterday's news. Thais have a legendarily a short little span of attention. Tomorrow, nobody will care whether you live or die. The price of rice and sugar cane will be what they worry about, not whether some jumped-up army wallah is comfortable in his prison cell or not.

 

Beer? Yes please.. Life goes on and life will go on when you're long forgotten..

I hope you are right but IMO

the reality is the army is such a big power structure here and will always see itself as higher than any government.

 

really how could anyone not think the whole time in Thai history they just toy around with the idea of government power and democracy?

only to keep the plebs and outside world happy thats all

 

And now they know they can have it both. the real power AND government

 

no stopping them. None of them will ever see inside a jail cell you can bet your left one on that.

 

it might not be so bad anyway it dont matter who get voted in they will just rort and corrupt like all the others have

 

may not be ideal for western thinking but this is not Kansas

At least the army can maintain order and keep the country going forward

 

 

[Happyman58]

37 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Right on! The 'Constitution' is invalid, null and void and a legal abortion from the very get go. It was never allowed to be publicly discussed (on pain of 10 years' jail, if a negative comment about it was made). It has no right to exist whatsoever. It is a legal non-entity - a sham, and a disgrace.

 

Get rid of it. Brave of Thanathorn to call out and demand the first major thing that needs to be done: shred the bogus 'Constitution'. Good on him!

 

Watch Thanathorn here. Unlike that creepy old Establishment-serving 'young politician', relative (and clone) of Abhisit, Parit, Thanathorn has real charisma, a meaningful agenda and guts (so it is beginning to seem). I hope he will get support:

 

Maybe soon for re-education for this guy or trump up some false charges against him. Let the legal system take care of this threat and then tell the people you had no part in it.

[Happyman58]

39 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Right on! The 'Constitution' is invalid, null and void and a legal abortion from the very get go. It was never allowed to be publicly discussed (on pain of 10 years' jail, if a negative comment about it was made). It has no right to exist whatsoever. It is a legal non-entity - a sham, and a disgrace.

 

Get rid of it. Brave of Thanathorn to call out and demand the first major thing that needs to be done: shred the bogus 'Constitution'. Good on him!

 

Watch Thanathorn here. Unlike that creepy old Establishment-serving 'young politician', relative (and clone) of Abhisit, Parit, Thanathorn has real charisma, a meaningful agenda and guts (so it is beginning to seem). I hope he will get support:

 

Quiz for you guys? Can anybody say this guys surname or spell it?  18 letters in his surname They will have to print some big ballot papers to get it all on there

[baboon]

11 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

At least the army can maintain order and keep the country going forward

 

Right off the edge of the cliff...

[Eligius]

4 minutes ago, baboon said:

Right off the edge of the cliff...

Yes indeed: the military junta leads the country right over the edge of the cliff into serfdom, servitude, no-rights - and stupid ancient hi-so costumes (for those who can afford them) ....!

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

But any moves against them will result in shocking PR for the junta and remember, they too are hunting for votes 'next year'. Will we soon find out what happens when an unstoppable force collides with an immovable object...?

That unstoppable force will most likely be the youth aka student activists who have taken over the vanguard of resistance from the colour shirts. Any moves against the party will galvanize more student resistance which will certainly gain the sympathy of the general public. Student demonstrators brought down 2 military governments in the past and drove a ex-general PM into exile. Prayut and Prawit better remember that. 

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

If they get enough votes they can scrap the charter

Not easily within the existing legal framework developed by the NCPO.

Who would have thought?

The whole Senate will support opposing MP's in blocking scrapping the charter.

The NACC, military, etc. can file a sedition complaint - "scrapping' the constitution removes the monarchy - which invalidates such action.

Defender of the Deep State - the Constitutional Court - might invalidate "scrapping" the Constitution, ie., as unconstitutional.

 

Though it could be a politically "slippery slope," the newly elected government might (with the current constitution remaining in place so as to avoid sedition) draft a new constitution (or previous constitution as a beginning baseline?) that continues Thailand as a constitutional democratic monarchy for a national referendum.¹ As the current constitution declares that sovereignty of Thailand belongs to the Thai people, a referendum that supports a new constitution with a high voter turnout (80%?) and majority support (65%?), the new constitution should be legally recognized.

 

¹ Prayut made this mistake when NCPO took power and abolished in whole the 2007 Constitution; thereby inadvertently eliminating the constitutional monarchy. Within days he quickly announced that certain sections of the 2007 Constitution would remain in force, ie, the constitutional monarchy and the judiciary including the Constitutional Court.

[tingtongtourist]

9 minutes ago, baboon said:

Right off the edge of the cliff...

Not seen any bad riots lately

 

No lives lost, property damaged, business closing, airport shut down, havoc for tourists.

good for no-one really and what was the result?

 

and if you believe the news it was mainly Abbhisit (the democratically elected prem)

who ordered the army to start firing bullets

 

just a few weeks and must of trashed the whole years economy

not to mention international confidence which is only just improoving.

 

id call that on a cliff edge and it would have been really over the edge if it were allowed to go on longer

[CiaranO]

The future is coming and minus the Junta.....we the people!

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

Not seen any bad riots lately

 

No lives lost, property damaged, business closing, airport shut down, havoc for tourists.

good for no-one really and what was the result?

 

and if you believe the news it was mainly Abbhisit (the democratically elected prem)

who ordered the army to start firing bullets

 

just a few weeks and must of trashed the whole years economy

not to mention international confidence which is only just improoving.

 

id call that on a cliff edge and it would have been really over the edge if it were allowed to go on longer

Please. Not the old civil war flapdoodle again. It has been done and debunked to death... 

[tomta]

22 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Prayut made this mistake when NCPO took power and abolished in whole the 2007 Constitution; thereby inadvertently eliminating the constitutional monarchy. Within days he quickly announced that certain sections of the 2007 Constitution would remain in force, ie, the constitutional monarchy and the judiciary including the Constitutional Court.

Slap a lese majeste charge on him. Anyone can accuse but I wonder exactly how long it would take for their attitude to be adjusted

[SABloke]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

“If they have so many conditions, we’ll have to rethink the whole idea of holding the meeting,” the deputy said.

In what world done one suggestion equal 'so many'? In Juntaland I guess - where one suggestion is one too many.

[Krataiboy]

6 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

There is some truth to the idea that people and parties must obey the law. However, concurrent with that is the idea that the law must be made in an open, legitimate fashion by duly constituted representatives of the people.

 

If the law in question was not made through an open and legitimate process, then obeyance of the law isn't always mandatory.

 

Further, the article mentions consequences.

 

The Election Commission could debar the party. However, the consequences of that would be that the entire election process was a sham, and thus the Junta gaining any legitimacy from would go out the window. In my view, the Junta can't function too much longer without a mandate; the Thai people are already getting restless and that will increase, not decrease.

 

What consequences did the Junta face for tossing out the previous constitution? Zip. Nil. Nada. It is hypocritical beyond belief to say that a constitution is sacrosanct when you and your colleagues have discarded one already. 

 

And yes, perhaps the Junta could use force to ensure the obeyance of the constitution, either before or after an election, but what would be the consequences of a third coup in twenty years? A plummeting of business confidence, and realization globally that Thailand's words meant nothing, and the country becoming an international laughing stock.

 

Are you prepared to pay that price, Thailand?

 

In other words, do as we say - not as we do.

[Media1]

it's no charter it's a contract of guranteed extortion for army hopefully. Burn it and pursue them.

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

There is some truth to the idea that people and parties must obey the law. However, concurrent with that is the idea that the law must be made in an open, legitimate fashion by duly constituted representatives of the people.

 

If the law in question was not made through an open and legitimate process, then obeyance of the law isn't always mandatory.

 

Further, the article mentions consequences.

 

The Election Commission could debar the party. However, the consequences of that would be that the entire election process was a sham, and thus the Junta gaining any legitimacy from would go out the window. In my view, the Junta can't function too much longer without a mandate; the Thai people are already getting restless and that will increase, not decrease.

 

What consequences did the Junta face for tossing out the previous constitution? Zip. Nil. Nada. It is hypocritical beyond belief to say that a constitution is sacrosanct when you and your colleagues have discarded one already. 

 

And yes, perhaps the Junta could use force to ensure the obeyance of the constitution, either before or after an election, but what would be the consequences of a third coup in twenty years? A plummeting of business confidence, and realization globally that Thailand's words meant nothing, and the country becoming an international laughing stock.

 

Are you prepared to pay that price, Thailand?

 

 

So, for the sake of certainty, you wouldn't support a PM making laws up and implementing them for his own benefit, by-passing parliament? Or a political party illegally amending a bill in process to benefit one person? Or a political party's MP's ignoring the law and voting illegally for absent colleagues?

 

And if a party/PM did such things, what remedy would you suggest?

[Just1Voice]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So, for the sake of certainty, you wouldn't support a PM making laws up and implementing them for his own benefit, by-passing parliament? Or a political party illegally amending a bill in process to benefit one person? Or a political party's MP's ignoring the law and voting illegally for absent colleagues?

 

And if a party/PM did such things, what remedy would you suggest?

Firing Squads seem to be pretty effective. lol

 

[DrTuner]

Thailand needs what the French served to it's entitled hi-so's couple of hundred years ago. Otherwise the circle never breaks.

[Jonmarleesco]

14 hours ago, webfact said:

Prayut said ... “Laws are there to create justice.

They are? Strange, then, that all too often, they don't seem to work that way. 

[Sir Dude]

The junta can huff and puff all it likes...they are old and on the way out, and the kids are having none of it plus want something else. Futile to resist and will only succeed in prolonging things, thus stoking up the resentment, as the future belongs with the young.

[CharlesSwann]

Any future attempt to change the constitution will presumably be seen as sufficient justification for a coup. Surely this surprises no one.

[Eligius]

32 minutes ago, CharlesSwann said:

Any future attempt to change the constitution will presumably be seen as sufficient justification for a coup. Surely this surprises no one.

Yes - but amazingly today the head of the Election Commission has effectively come out in support of Thanathorn's wish to change the Constitution, saying that such an intention is legitimate.

 

Who would have thunk it! Cracks are beginning to appear in the seemingly mighty junta edifice ...

Edited May 29, 2018 by Eligius

[Odysseus123]

13 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Yes - but amazingly today the head of the Election Commission has effectively come out in support of Thanathorn's wish to change the Constitution, saying that such an intention is legitimate.

 

Who would have thunk it! Cracks are beginning to appear in the seemingly mighty junta edifice ...

Yes,Something is not quite right-is the roulette wheel about to be spun again?

 

The strange stuff about the monk/monks and other things...

[Lupatria]

16 hours ago, webfact said:

In a separate interview, Deputy PM and Defence Minister General Prawit Wongsuwan said that the Election Commission should study the party’s statement and see whether it violated the law.

I wish he would be as honest as Nobel peace laureate Henry Kissinger who was quoted saying:

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer…" 

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, Eligius said:

wish to change the Constitution, saying that such an intention is legitimate.

"There is nothing wrong with campaigning on a pledge to rewrite the constitution"

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1040407-calling-for-new-charter-is-totally-fine-election-official/?tab=comments#comment-13027920

Wishes don't violate EC regulations - at least for now under the current EC Chairman.

So yes, one can have a legitimate wish. Actually rewriting the constitution can easily run against other legal obstacles though, including the pro-military Senate, sedition laws and the 2017 Constitution itself.

 

[JAG]

13 hours ago, KiwiKiwi said:

News for you Uncle, perhaps they'll just do what you did - write new laws.

 

I wonder what your cell will be like...?

No cell. He'll either make it to the airport, or come unstuck en route...

[Acemaker]

13 hours ago, Eligius said:

Agree with you, Baboon. I hope HOPE that the Thais do indeed prove to be an unstoppable force. They are, after all, the true sovereignty holders in the land - so let that unstoppable force be manifested. Now is the time!

I agree Citizen Smith of Tooting !