Plug in Surge Protectors, which do you recommend ?

[SurinBeach]

Hi,

 

Lost an Onkyo Amp/Receiver last week and the TV has gone really strange recently (Wifi not working, Internals speakers sound strange and now it turns itself on and off randomly)

Can anyone recommend a decent surge protector (something that stops working when it cant protect anymore perhaps.)

And where I get order it ...

 

My current one is a Belkin.

 

Cheers

SB

 

 

[Crossy]

Belkin are up there with the best also APC. But both brands come in various flavours and prices.

 

MOVs fail short-circuit so should pop the fuse when they stop protecting.

 

I've been making my own, decent little MOVs are a few Baht a pop from NPE and the like and you can add them across all 3 lines (most commercial units just do L-N).

 

If surges are a recurring problem you should consider adding something to the incoming supply.

[The Deerhunter]

On 5/29/2018 at 10:57 AM, Crossy said:

Belkin are up there with the best also APC. But both brands come in various flavours and prices.

 

MOVs fail short-circuit so should pop the fuse when they stop protecting.

 

I've been making my own, decent little MOVs are a few Baht a pop from NPE and the like and you can add them across all 3 lines (most commercial units just do L-N).

 

If surges are a recurring problem you should consider adding something to the incoming supply.

Shouldn't we all have a Safety cut there?  They are a couple of k baht but I understand they act as surge protectors too.  Also with inconsistent supply, I always believed that UPS's are a good idea for expensive A/V gear, fridges or computers that are left on as servers.  I have both (Safetycuts and UPS's of those in the belief that together they should save some of my stuff from most surges.  We also have about 4 or 5 fridges and 5 air-cons in the complex.  Am I correct in doing this as I have?

[Crossy]

Just now, The Deerhunter said:

Shouldn't we all have a Safety cut there?

Indeed we should (or something similar for a lot less $$) but I don't think they have MOV surge protection.

 

[The Deerhunter]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

Indeed we should (or something similar for a lot less $$) but I don't think they have MOV surge protection.

 

MOV????   I looked that up.  Is that not the same  thing as an RCD?  Safety-cuts are RCD's, right??   Sorry but electricity is all smoke and mirrors to me. 555

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, The Deerhunter said:

MOV????   I looked that up.  Is that not the same  thing as an RCD?  Safety-cuts are RCD's, right??   Sorry but electricity is all smoke and mirrors to me. 555

Two different devices to provide different protection. The RCD (Safe-T-Cut) protects the user from electric shock, the MOV protects the installation and appliances from supply anomalies.

 

[The Deerhunter]

5 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Two different devices to provide different protection. The RCD (Safe-T-Cut) protects the user from electric shock, the MOV protects the installation and appliances from supply anomalies.

 

Can I have both in the line and which one should be first?  The MOV, I guess.    Where do I buy them and what do they cost.  I live in the country side between Chacheongsao & Chonburi.  Do Homepro, Global House or Thai Watsadu have them?  What should I look for and expect to pay?

Edited May 30, 2018 by The Deerhunter

[Crossy]

The ideal place for the MOV is between the main switch and RCD (not easy with a Safe-T-Cut box).

 

They are not common at the big-box places, you'll need a specialist electrical place.

 

[English Engineer]

Safety cutout deects a leakage current to earth to protect personnel. The best option is a small UPS to protect sensative appliances.

[superal]

On 5/29/2018 at 10:57 AM, Crossy said:

Belkin are up there with the best also APC. But both brands come in various flavours and prices.

 

MOVs fail short-circuit so should pop the fuse when they stop protecting.

 

I've been making my own, decent little MOVs are a few Baht a pop from NPE and the like and you can add them across all 3 lines (most commercial units just do L-N).

 

If surges are a recurring problem you should consider adding something to the incoming supply.

To the uninitiated what would that be called ? It sounds like a much better system as it would protect all of your electrical household items and wiring , or am I wrong ?

 

A few days ago we had a power cut ( big bang outside nearby ) , however I noticed that the rice cooker still had all of its lights on , so how can that be ?

[Crossy]

20 minutes ago, superal said:

To the uninitiated what would that be called ? It sounds like a much better system as it would protect all of your electrical household items and wiring , or am I wrong ?

It's still a MOV, just rather bigger. All sorts available online from low-cost (ok cheap) Chinese ones to rather more expensive devices from the likes of Citel http://www.citel.us/

 

These are mid-range units from Citel.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITEL-DS42VGS-230-G-AC-Surge-Protector-Type-2-3-2-Pole-CT2-Remote-Signal/122355681965?epid=681045404&hash=item1c7cf78aad:g:ucwAAOSwfVpYotRf

 

 

If you buy online do ensure you get a unit suitable for the Thai supply system, US "220V" ones are not!

 

 

[superal]

10 minutes ago, Crossy said:

It's still a MOV, just rather bigger. All sorts available online from low-cost (ok cheap) Chinese ones to rather more expensive devices from the likes of Citel http://www.citel.us/

 

These are mid-range units from Citel.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITEL-DS42VGS-230-G-AC-Surge-Protector-Type-2-3-2-Pole-CT2-Remote-Signal/122355681965?epid=681045404&hash=item1c7cf78aad:g:ucwAAOSwfVpYotRf

 

 

If you buy online do ensure you get a unit suitable for the Thai supply system, US "220V" ones are not!

 

 

Thanks Crossy for your quick reply ,

Do you think a " Thai electrician " would be conversant with this ?  Finding a qualified kosher Thai electrician up here in Issan is a lucky dip , seems like all the general builders carry out their own electrical work . Are you aware of a Thai equivalent  qualification here such as the UK 16th edition ?

[Crossy]

12 minutes ago, superal said:

Thanks Crossy for your quick reply ,

Do you think a " Thai electrician " would be conversant with this ?  Finding a qualified kosher Thai electrician up here in Issan is a lucky dip , seems like all the general builders carry out their own electrical work . Are you aware of a Thai equivalent  qualification here such as the UK 16th edition ?

 

They are not difficult to install, only 3 wires ? What could go wrong?

 

N to the Neutral bar, L via an MCB to live, E to a GOOD earth (essential for correct operation).

 

It's important to keep the wires as short as possible so install it next to your main switch with nice fat cable (6mm² minimum).

[perconrad]

I have a combined Schneider MCB and RCBO in a Schneider box. can I then install the surge protector as one of the group breakers? or do i have to mount a seperat box and install the surge protector in that and install it before the MCB?

[Crossy]

Just now, perconrad said:

I have a combined Schneider MCB and RCBO in a Schneider box. can I then install the surge protector as one of the group breakers? or do i have to mount a seperat box and install the surge protector in that and install it before the MCB?

Schneider / Square-D do make plug-in MOV devices, they are not cheap (if you can find them).

 

I would install a DIN mount one (like my link) in a small box, feed it from the first breaker after your incomer.

  

[perconrad]

Do a type 2 surge protector protect against lightning? or do I then install a type 1 lightning arrester?

 

How can I see if the type 2 is a MOV type?

[lust]

Don’t buy the cheap ones. I had 3 melt at my house. The fuse didn’t pop, they just got super hot and melted. Luckily I could smell it and didn’t have any fire.

[Crossy]

27 minutes ago, perconrad said:

Do a type 2 surge protector protect against lightning? or do I then install a type 1 lightning arrester?

 

How can I see if the type 2 is a MOV type?

Most of us who bother have a Type-2 in the distribution board and rely on the supply authority for anything associated with the transformer (Type-1). Unless you have your own transformer don't worry about Type-1.

 

Type-2 units are invariably MOV unless very old (in which case they should be replaced anyway).

 

As noted by lust MOVs fail short circuit and rely on there being an MCB in the live connection to open if the current becomes excessive. There's supposed to be a fusible link inside the unit, but these do sometimes fail to operate.

 

EDIT Some interesting reading https://blog.schneider-electric.com/power-management-metering-monitoring-power-quality/2013/03/19/how-to-choose-the-right-surge-protector/

[perconrad]

Crossy, thanks for the replies.

 

I have Googled some and been wiser. I thought that a surge protector should disconnect the supply, but it just opens up and sends the over voltage to the earth. 

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, perconrad said:

I have Googled some and been wiser. I thought that a surge protector should disconnect the supply, but it just opens up and sends the over voltage to the earth. 

1

 

 

Anything electromechanical to open the supply would be waaay too slow, the surge will have been, done the damage, and gone before the contacts start to move.

 

You may also want to add an over/under voltage detector which does disconnect the supply in the event of long-term (seconds) under or over voltage.