Can A Falang Legally Defend Himself?

[Nam Kao]

The American killed in Chiang Rai got me thinking

Say the American went into his house and somehow killed the 2 intruders before

they killed him. What would really happen to him when the police show up. Would the police commend him or throw the cuffs on him?

I think about all the vehicular accidents etc always blamed on the falang because

"If the falang was not there the accident would of never happened theme." And the

other aspect of "Good time to try to bribe the falang". I am sure the deceased intruders families would try to get $$ out of the falang also.

Say I am just walking down a soi minding my own business and an armed

robber tries to rob me and I defend myself with my kobaton (excellent weapon BTW). The guy tries to attack me and I put the kobaton twice into his skull and there he lies dead. I call the police, police come, what would really happen to me legally? any thoughts / experiences ?

Thanks

Nam

[GuestHouse]

I've been all over Thailand (every single province) and I've been living in Thailand since 1992.

I have never been once been attacked by a Thai.

None of my exaptriate friends have ever been attacked by a Thai.

Given this history, I have never seen the need to carry a weapon.

I've never had a road accident (thankfully) but I was in a car driven by a foreigner that was involved in a serious accident with a Thai. The Thai was found to be at fault and his insurance paid for the repair to the foreigner's car.

A foreigner might be required to pay at an accident (where it was clearly not his fault) if he has no legal license to drive (driving with a national license rather than an international or indeed a Thai license).

The other case is where there is a serious injury and the driver of the other vehicle has no insurance - usually a motor bike. The police will view it as for the better good that someone pays for the injuries. You have insurance, so your insurance pays.

I don't say it is right, but neither are you automaticaly guilty beccause you are a foreigner.

You are guilty of a crime if you are carrying a weapon.

And you are probably fooling yourself that you can look after yourself too.

The attacks I have seen on foreigners in Thailand have all been a response to some guy, usually drunk. who thinks he can get the better of the little guy.

I once saw four US Marines have seven shades kicked out of them by a gang of skinny little Thai guys, after one of the Marines punched a guy out.... they were on him like a swarm of bees.

Just like bees they attacked and disapeared into the woods.

Ruke No. 1

Don't ###### with the locals.

[stroll]

What is a kobaton, some sort of knife? In any European country you would be accused of manslaughter, specially when hitting the guy twice in the head. Why should it be viewed differently in Thailand?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Like anywhere in the world, one would need a lawyer to represent oneself in the Court. More so here, because the legal system is different to the one you know.

[mbkudu]

Dr., are you talking defense in the court room or defense on the street? I don't

know many lawyers who are martial artists and would be willing to accompany a

foreigner on his trips through the 'mean streets' of Thailand. Most of the lawyers I've seen are fat little pudgy guys who look like they couldn't hurt a fly.

[Yohan]

I've been all over Thailand (every single province) and I've been living in Thailand since 1992.

I have never been once been attacked by a Thai.

None of my exaptriate friends have ever been attacked by a Thai.

Given this history, I have never seen the need to carry a weapon.

I can only confirm guesthouse postings....

I have never been attacked by a Thai, nor any of my family members nor one of my friends. - We have visited every province of Thailand during our visits since 30 years.

About the killing of the American in Chiang Rai, I do not have details, but it remembers me to brutal Chinese gangs over the border.

It is not the way of Thai local criminals... entering a home, stealing some money or things, usually such people will run away....

and when they catch him, not much will happen to him.....for this reason they never carry weapons with them....

To carry a weapon for itself is already a serious crime.

If a Thai kills a foreigner in Thailand like in this case, this is considered as armed robbery and murder, and carries the death penalty by firing squard.

I think, this is an unusual and rare case, I do not think, these killers were Thais...

For sure this is not an ordinary case of stealing some money or some items out of a house of a foreigner.

Johann

[pnustedt]

Whilst I agree that the likelihood of being attacked in LOS is not high, sensible precautions are a must. I have met with a few minor tense situations.

When I first stayed in our village I was warned not to drive down a certain road (track really) at night as drug addicts were known to hang out there and there had been ambushes - a remote area, my wife now wants to build our house there. Hopefully, they've cleared up the drug problem.

Also many Thais possess serious firearms - our neighbour was arrested when police visited him (he was distilling spirits for sale at the rocket festival). He had an AK45 or something similar in his house.

[GuestHouse]

Sensible precautions.

Trust your instincts and leave when they tell you there is a problem.

Carrying a weapon is little more than folly. Thais very rarely go for direct confrontation.

If they want to attack someone they do so from behind or via a hired hand.

The chances are that you would not see it coming.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Dr., are you talking defense in the court room or defense on the street? I don't

know many lawyers who are martial artists and would be willing to accompany a

foreigner on his trips through the 'mean streets' of Thailand. Most of the lawyers I've seen are fat little pudgy guys who look like they couldn't hurt a fly.

In the courts of course

[Yohan]

What is a kobaton, some sort of knife? In any European country you would be accused of manslaughter, specially when hitting the guy twice in the head. Why should it be viewed differently in Thailand?

A kobaton or kubaton is a short stick, used for karate exercise to defend knife attacks.

Correctly used by a trained person in case of self-defense, it can cause serious injuries, especially in the face or breast of that person, which is attacking using a knife.

The ordinary kubaton is legal here in Japan, however there are more dangerous types, like the sharpened kubaton (looks like a big sharpened pencil) or the knife-kubaton (has a dagger fixed on the top) which are deadly and very dangerous, illegal weapons.

Not always manslaughter in case of self defense...also in Europe, there are decisions by some Supreme Courts, which clearly say, the risk to be injuried as aggressor is the risk SOLELY of the aggressor.....

If he attacks you with a knife or pistol, and you use a kobaton and this person is seriously insured or dead, there will an investigation about it, but it will be difficult to keep you responsible for his injuries....

Thailand might be even better for you for defence in such cases, as there is no strong human rights movement, which protects the criminal more than his victims.

Johann

[ProThaiExpat]

Most wester societies, and I am sure Thailand, try to determine the degree of force being produced by the aggressor and then allow an equal but not greater force in defense.

It is a balancing act that defies rational thought, even after the fact.

Example, you fire a home protection weapon at an intruder in your home at night.

If the intruder is found to be unarmed, your up for manslaughter, providing you can prove that he was threatening your life. Position of the body, etc. etc. etc. If you shoot him in the back, because he turned around as you fired, your up for 2nd degree murder.

A street scene doesn't have the sanctitiy of you home, so much more diffuclt to defend yourself and still come out of it wihout jeopardy, if the police come to the scene and you are still there.

Determining the level of force being used against you and then responding with equal force, but not greater force, when under attack in an alley, is a mineboggling enterprise.

Solution, don't go into dark alleys.

[Up2U]

The American killed in Chiang Rai got me thinking

Say the American went into his house and somehow killed the 2 intruders before

they killed him. What would really happen to him when the police show up. Would the police commend him or throw the cuffs on him?

If it was in England, the guy would be put in jail (Tony Martin of Norfolk).

He went downstairs at night when he heard a noise, shot an intruder - a 'traveller' as they are PC called (a youngster of no fixed abode and no employment record, living on the dole and travelling around in a mobile home)

Banged up amid loud protests. Hero of the righteous right.

[davethailand]

The American killed in Chiang Rai got me thinking

Say the American went into his house and somehow killed the 2 intruders before

they killed him. What would really happen to him when the police show up. Would the police commend him or throw the cuffs on him?

If it was in England, the guy would be put in jail (Tony Martin of Norfolk).

He went downstairs at night when he heard a noise, shot an intruder - a 'traveller' as they are PC called (a youngster of no fixed abode and no employment record, living on the dole and travelling around in a mobile home)

Banged up amid loud protests. Hero of the righteous right.

i remember that on the tv, the pikey was a thieving little w***er who had a history and the guy was protecting his property and himself.

they wonder why they're hated as well, messy, dirty, thieving no good bastards.

[maerim]

He went downstairs at night when he heard a noise, shot an intruder - a 'traveller' as they are PC called (a youngster of no fixed abode and no employment record, living on the dole and travelling around in a mobile home).

A brief translation for those not used to pc language.

He was pikey or gypsy or otherwise known a dirty,idle illiterate, thieving lump of scum.

These people by the way get more dole money as they are technically homeless.

He was burglarising the place. In the U.K. I believe if you rob a house during the daylight hours it's called housebreaking.

This man was in the company of his uncle at the time he was shot by Tony Martin

This uncle went to jail when he came out he managed to get legal aid so he could sue Tony Martin for mental trauma who by this time was also in jail he suffered as his nephew was killed on the job so to speak.

You can't possibly make this up, this is getting on my threepennies now if you want anymore do as search on google.

[chonabot]

they wonder why they're hated as well, messy, dirty, thieving no good bastards.

Hey ! That's my mate Erco you're talking about...

As for self defense against Thais , one on one they usually run off , then come back with half of their family/workmates. I trained in Muay Thai for over 10 years and the only time I ever needed it was in Oxford , and that was against an English <deleted> , Erco's mate again?

[GuestHouse]

You forgot to mention that he was entitled to free legal aid while in jail and that in the weeks ater getting out of jail he was arrested for selling heroin.

Filthy, Stinking, Sciving, Scrounging, Theiving, Drug Dealing, Sheep Shagging Bastards!

OK only the Welsh ones shag sheep, but the others never complain about it.

And why are they all called Smith?

[maerim]

You forgot to mention that he was entitled to free legal aid while in jail and that in the weeks ater getting out of jail he was arrested for selling heroin.

Nope, I didn't forget but the whole issue blaming the victim in the U.K. has got out of hand.

I am sick to death of "Social workers" blaming society for the crimes of these scumbags usually the offspring of badly educated if at all educated single parents

who allow their children paid for by the likes of me to run feral.

It is argued that prison doesn't work.Is that right?

Well one thing I do know while they are in there they are not out stealing and yes I have been turned over a few times to help a smackhead through the day with his or her fix.

[wolf5370]

Getting back to the original question. I believe a farang (or anyone else for that matter) - can represent themselves in court in LOS (as in Europe and the US too - I believe). However, the proceedings will be in Thai using the standard legalese of the country - so probably not highly recommeded!

No civilian should carry a weapon in my view - these always make a little situation in to a serious problem. If it does go all confrontational, a biro pen or set of keys can work wonders as an adhok weapon, and not illegal to carry either ("It was already in my hand, officer.").

A waepon shows intent to use it (for defense or otherwise) either way it will be frowned on. The last thing you want is to have a weopon taken off of you and used against you or someone else.

If he (bad guy) has a weopon, give him your throw away wallet (the one with 500 baht - in 100s or smaller bills - and your expired credit cards in) and submit.

[Nam Kao]

Thanks for the responses

But the question remains:

Is it legal to defend yourself in Thailand if attacked?

To simplify lets say I am unarmed and I am attacked by an unarmed Thai.

Can I defend myself and not go to the clink ??

Thanks again

Nam

[mbkudu]

Use your Kung-<deleted> fighting oh grasshopper to kick the bloody <deleted> out'uv'em.

[andy50]

i read somewhere that if a farang causes a thai to lose blood , the farang is in serious trouble?(my first post guys ,be gentle with me!)

[dr_Pat_Pong]

i read somewhere that if a farang causes a thai to lose blood , the farang is in serious trouble?(my first post guys ,be gentle with me!)

What were the other 46 posts about then ?

[NedKelly]

The kubotan I have is actually a key ring. Well at the end of six inches of alloy is a set of keys which when thrashed in your face will cause you to balk long enough for me to kisk you in the nuts and run away.

However if I use it in the way in which I was trained over the years I could be in trouble, expecially in court if the opposition lawyer discovered I had trained to use it and was an expert.

Honestly sir, the bloke has got a skull cracked in forty five places but I only hit him once. He slipped....jing jing !!

[Nam Kao]

I think this is the answer I was looking for

Theft victim delivers swift justice

Englishman Steve Parkinson delivered swift justice to a 16-year-old thief after the youth and another man snatched his 5 baht-weight gold necklace. Parkinson gave chase on his Honda Phantom and rammed the pair near the Grand Hall market in Soi Bua Khao in the early hours of August 21.

Police arrived on the scene to find Parkinson detaining the young criminal in a headlock. Parkinson told police that the 16 year old, identified only as Wallop, and another man tore the gold chain from his neck as he was waiting to turn. Undeterred, Parkinson gave chase and rammed the pair on the bike. Officers searched the youth’s pocket to find the chain, complete with three Buddhist amulets, and took him to Soi 9 for questioning.

Back at the station, police brought in Mawee Kaewlue, 19, who was suspected to have taken part in the theft. However, Mawee said that the bike was his and that the 16 year old and an accomplice had stolen the bike at gunpoint. A quick check led officers to quickly remove Mawee’s handcuffs. They charged Wallop with two counts of theft and sent him to a holding cell pending judicial proceedings while police search for his accomplice

[falong]

The American killed in Chiang Rai got me thinking

Say the American went into his house and somehow killed the 2 intruders before

they killed him. What would really happen to him when the police show up. Would the police commend him or throw the cuffs on him?

I think about all the vehicular accidents etc always blamed on the falang because

"If the falang was not there the accident would of never happened theme." And the

other aspect of "Good time to try to bribe the falang". I am sure the deceased intruders families would try to get $$ out of the falang also.

Say I am just walking down a soi minding my own business and an armed

robber tries to rob me and I defend myself with my kobaton (excellent weapon BTW). The guy tries to attack me and I put the kobaton twice into his skull and there he lies dead. I call the police, police come, what would really happen to me legally? any thoughts / experiences ?

Thanks

Nam

What american was killed in chaing rai??

[ProThaiExpat]

falong: Search back to the thread, as indicated by nams quote in May and you will find quite a bit of information about that killing.

You might look in nams 10 most recent posts by clicking on his name in the index to find the thread as well.

[bkk barney]

if u want something to protect urself, the best bet is pepper spray, available at tru value 800baht per can, about the same size as a lipstick tube

[Nam Kao]

I was worried about defending myself and getting in trouble legally by doing so.

Its good to find these things out before it happens,

I am not worried anymore after what this guy did. Ramming the perp and

detaining him with no police problems. Nice.

But the other side of this sword is possible revenge from the perp or his family.

--------------

Pepper spray? Good if you have a few feet between you and your attacker.

Up close and personal is useless. You will get it in your own eyes also.

I'll stick with my Kobaton mixed w/ Muay Thai.

--------------------

Where I live is pretty safe. The Locals are OK. We get transients going thru our

soi sometimes avoiding the main roads / police. Once my wife was walking

back from a neighbors house and one of these trucks passed and stops and tries

to rob my wife. My wife bolts home screaming with the guy right behind her. Everyone jumps up at the house

and grabs anything they can find - Hammers, Machetes, axes and start chasing

the guy back to his truck - now the guy is screaming but gets away.

(Even grandma was chasing wielding a knife like Charles Manson). I asked after

"what would have happened if you caught him?". My wife said "Big Man-chen".

They would have chopped this guy to pieces. Talk about culture shock!

regards

Nam

[ThaiPauly]

they wonder why they're hated as well, messy, dirty, thieving no good bastards.

I trained in Muay Thai for over 10 years and the only time I ever needed it was in Oxford ,

I know where you are coming from with this, my home town is not all "Gown" and it is now a troublesome place, but why is that while in the Sukhumvit early Sois I see all these martial arts weapons openly on sale? Are the legal, I mean can you openly carry a "Kung <deleted>" stlyle star around in your pocket without being arrested?