Israeli army kills Palestinian nurse in Gaza border protest - medics

[Morch]

7 hours ago, Thorgal said:

 

Your 1st paragraph: you downplay the illegal murder of the Palestinian nurse.

 

Your 2nd paragraph: you put the victim outside the crime scene.

 

At least I got it !

 

Still entertaining the fantasy you're in a court room?

[Morch]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Your opinion with which I thoroughly disagree. Plenty of civilians who have received life changing injuries from IDF actions. An extract from a prior post by you which seems to imply it's OK to kill someone assisting the injured.

 

Najjar was less than 100 yards from the border fence, treating a man who been struck by a tear gas canister, when she was shot

 

The woman made a decision to try and save live's  / minimise suffering - IMO your attitude is appalling.

 

I think (well, know...) there's a fine line between being stupid and being brave. Sometimes it gets blurred. I'd agree that there's no call to apply this to a paramedic/medic/nurse/whatever, as it comes with the territory.

 

Similar attitudes as the poster exhibited are on offer when innocents are killed by Palestinian attacks. One of the things this conflict excels in is politicizing human tragedies.

[nobodysfriend]

9 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Not brave, just stupid.

Her death achieves nothing. NOTHING. She participated in a violent attack on Israel and died. Propaganda for Hamas, but nothing else.  You will forget about her next month. Do you remember the names of the  jihadists who died last week? Last month? Last year? 5 years ago?

 

If she was that dedicated to improving the lives of the Arabs in Hamas ruled Gaza, she could have helped women with family planning so they were not denied birth control and forced to produce 10+ kids, or she could have taught sex education to the young  children so that they understand it is not appropriate for older relatives to  rape young boys and  girls aged 10 or 5.  Or she could have volunteered with one of the many NGOs working to address Gaza's obesity and smoking epidemic. More Gazans die in any given month due to heart & lung disease due to smoking and over eating than they do of  violence with Israel.

Nothing stopped this woman from having a peaceful life except her hatred for Israel and her being brainwashed by Islamic wackos.

 

BBC today : http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-44343263

 

Gaza violence: Thousands attend funeral for Palestinian medic

 

Let's hope that this time she will not be forgotten as you presume . ..

 

I do not want to comment your post , it is not worth the effort ...

It is easy to judge somebody by his comments ...

[bert bloggs]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

Your opinion with which I thoroughly disagree. Plenty of civilians who have received life changing injuries from IDF actions. An extract from a prior post by you which seems to imply it's OK to kill someone assisting the injured.

 

Najjar was less than 100 yards from the border fence, treating a man who been struck by a tear gas canister, when she was shot

 

The woman made a decision to try and save live's  / minimise suffering - IMO your attitude is appalling.

She was there treating a terrorist that had attacked Israel , lie down with dogs ,you get fleas.

[dexterm]

22 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

You mean in respect to the biased claim>

First she is described as a "nurse". Then she is  described as a 21-year-old volunteer medic. Dressing in white does not a nurse make. What exactly is a medic?  According to the biased reports, the attackers putting a band aid on someone is a "medic".

In this case there is no evidence to support the claim that she was targeted. What is known is that an attacker through a grenade at the Israelis and gunfire was exchanged. The deceased my have been hit by collateral fire. Or she may have  been hit by arab attacker fire as is often the case. I also know that  it was common for attackers to include women and children who run up and explode or who throw grenades.

 

Calling the deceased a nurse is a lie because she wasn't a nurse.  Claiming that she was innocent without any evidence to support the claim that it was Israeli  gunfire that  killed her intentionally is deceitful.

 

Too bad she put herself in a situation where she could be injured. Here's an idea, why not stop attacking Israel and building atack tunnels with cement intended to build homes, and building missiles and mortars with steel intended for infrastructure, and putting  munition storage dumps in the basements of schools and hospitals,  and maybe Egypt and israel won't be so tough at the border crossings.

>>First she is described as a "nurse". Then she is  described as a 21-year-old volunteer medic. Dressing in white does not a nurse make. What exactly is a medic?  According to the biased reports, the attackers putting a band aid on someone is a "medic".
...That is a shameful new low. Nitpicking over terminology just to make the Israeli narrative perfect...as though the IDF can never do wrong...while a brave 21 year old woman has her life cut short for trying to help injured.  Following through on your bizarre logic, if she had been waving her nursing certificate the IDF would not have murdered her??   To kill clearly identified medical personnel is a war crime under the Geneva Convention. 

[ezzra]

30 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

BBC today : http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-44343263

 

Gaza violence: Thousands attend funeral for Palestinian medic

 

Let's hope that this time she will not be forgotten as you presume . ..

 

I do not want to comment your post , it is not worth the effort ...

It is easy to judge somebody by his comments ...

Than allow me to comment, over 170 of mortar shells have been lobbed into civilian targets in Israel in less than 24 hours, a couple which landed in a kindergarten just 20 minutes before many childrens were about to start their day at the kindergarten!!!!! and there isn't any cause in the world that justify targeting children,  what is going over there is WAR, and don't be fooled into thinking that this is a  "peaceful demonstration with unarmed people" .....

[ezzra]

2 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>>First she is described as a "nurse". Then she is  described as a 21-year-old volunteer medic. Dressing in white does not a nurse make. What exactly is a medic?  According to the biased reports, the attackers putting a band aid on someone is a "medic".
...That is a shameful new low. Nitpicking over terminology just to make the Israeli narrative perfect...as though the IDF can never do wrong...while a brave 21 year old woman has her life cut short for trying to help injured.  Following through on your bizarre logic, if she had been waving her nursing certificate the IDF would not have murdered her??   To kill clearly identified medical personnel is a war crime under the Geneva Convention. 

Just so you know, that every dead and wounded Palestinian equate to more donations, more sympathy and more Israel condemnations, all misguided and wasted on people who are being led by terrorists leadership who put the value of Palestinians lives at zero, including the palestinian president Abbas who stopped paying Israel for the electricity supply to Gaza strip and cut the salaries of 65,000 Gaza admin workers in half....

[DoctorG]

18 hours ago, car720 said:

and you would do well to stop applying sophistry to cover up for these gutless cowards.

and thank you for your sage advise, which I will happily ignore

 

You do not know the truth of what happened, any more than do I.

[Elfin]

11 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

“I told her it was dangerous to approach [the fence] but she answered that she was not afraid to die and wanted to help the young man,” a fellow medic told Gaza reporters, according to Haaretz.

Help the young man. Somehow you translate this as a terrorist act?

[bandito]

19 hours ago, Elfin said:

Morch, unfortunately I am very busy at the moment, and while I have been finding the time to occasionally post on here, I will go through my files to refute your accusations when I have more free time.

Retreating eh?

Good, no more nonsense about Israel from you.

[Elfin]

11 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Just another  attacker who got too close to the violent confrontation and paid with her life.

Again you somehow twist the truth to come up with the word "attacker" when she was going to help one of her countrymen. She was armed with dressings and bandages.

 I think the term nurse may have been a translation error if she was in fact a volunteer medic.

[bandito]

1 minute ago, Elfin said:

Again you somehow twist the truth to come up with the word "attacker" when she was going to help one of her countrymen. She was armed with dressings and bandages.

 I think the term nurse may have been a translation error if she was in fact a volunteer medic.

 

"volunteer medic"?

Just by wearing a nurses uniform which anybody can dress up in?

She could have been a suicide bomber.

The message is clear "Do not approache the border fence".

She could have been send off by Hamas.

Israel's IDF was justified in shooting her.

[Elfin]

54 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Than allow me to comment, over 170 of mortar shells have been lobbed into civilian targets in Israel in less than 24 hours

Then........

How many bullets, teargas cannisters, tank shells and missiles (from the IAF) have been fired in a similar 24 hour period by Israeli troops? I am asking you seeing you seem keen to compile statistics.

Of course most of the Palestinian home made rockets without any guidance systems do no damage except make a small hole in a field. How many Israelis have been killed or injured in this current protest? 0?

[Elfin]

22 minutes ago, bandito said:

Retreating eh?

Good, no more nonsense about Israel from you.

No retreat. No surrender. Get back to your bikie gang.

[Elfin]

11 minutes ago, bandito said:

She could have been send off by Hamas.

Israel's IDF was justified in shooting her.

Send off?

Your minority view (Israel's IDF was justified in shooting her.) is repulsive.

Those who think like you are a big part of the problem.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, bert bloggs said:

She was there treating a terrorist that had attacked Israel , lie down with dogs ,you get fleas.

Blah, blah oh brave one. How many civilians who are not terrorists have been shot or injured by other means by the IDF in the current conflict who were assisted by the victim? However, there are many reports of the IDF aiding injured Palestinian terrorists / civilians. Recently reported Israel offered medical aid, which was rejected by Hamas

[dexterm]

The case is simple: a young female medic hands raised clearly identifiable in uniform 100 yards within Gaza trying to help an injured person is shot dead in cold blood. Readers aren't dumb. They can see exactly what happened.

Simple also to admit it was wrong and perhaps investigate the chain of command to find out who has ordered this cold blooded murder policy rather than more non lethal crowd control weapons usage, and change that policy because it is morally indefensible and massively bad PR for Israel.

 

But instead there is a mixture of logical acrobatics, nitpicking over terminology, muddying the timeline, streams of turgid deflections and trolls, even the musings of sadistic weirdos... all of which are not doing Israel any favors. Counter productive. In fact Israel's and its apologists' excuses have actually created a greater global awareness of the injustice Israel perpetrates against the Palestinians. If Israel and its apologists wanted to stifle that awareness, their silly antics have in fact done the opposite.

Edited June 3, 2018 by dexterm

[buick]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

Its called the Chewbacca defense.. frequently used on this forum by Israeli apologists to deflect and troll.

"A Chewbacca defense is a legal strategy in which the aim of the argument is to deliberately confuse the jury rather than to factually refute the case of the other side......The concept of disguising a flaw in one's argument by presenting large amounts of irrelevant information "

based on posts that we traded the other day, you are well schooled in this strategy.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

>>First she is described as a "nurse". Then she is  described as a 21-year-old volunteer medic. Dressing in white does not a nurse make. What exactly is a medic?  According to the biased reports, the attackers putting a band aid on someone is a "medic".
...That is a shameful new low. Nitpicking over terminology just to make the Israeli narrative perfect...as though the IDF can never do wrong...while a brave 21 year old woman has her life cut short for trying to help injured.  Following through on your bizarre logic, if she had been waving her nursing certificate the IDF would not have murdered her??   To kill clearly identified medical personnel is a war crime under the Geneva Convention. 

 

Nitpicking over terminology, when it comes to Israeli casualties, is something you dabble in. Guess this to is something you'll deny or make some excuse for. And yes, some posters do (wrongly) think that the IDF can do no wrong. But coming from someone who staunchly refuses to acknowledge any wrongdoing on the Palestinians' part, that's kinda rich.

 

I don't know the exact circumstances of her death, although I've little doubt she was shot by the IDF. You don't know them either, but post as if you do.

[Elfin]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

The fact that this unarmed young woman woman was shot by a sadistic IDF sniper, is on the news around the world. I just saw a report about it on the TV news. Disproportionate response by the IDF was mentioned several times as was that the IDF are going to probe the cause of this murder and find out who did it.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Elfin

[Morch]

1 hour ago, bandito said:

 

"volunteer medic"?

Just by wearing a nurses uniform which anybody can dress up in?

She could have been a suicide bomber.

The message is clear "Do not approache the border fence".

She could have been send off by Hamas.

Israel's IDF was justified in shooting her.

 

No, she was legit. Even got an interview on NYT a month ago, with details of her training.

She was no suicide bomber, and she wasn't "sent off by Hamas".

Doubt there's a way to justify her being shot - unless she was standing near/behind someone who  was the actual target. That said, war isn't as orderly as some seem to imagine.

 

[geriatrickid]

59 minutes ago, dexterm said:

The case is simple: a young female medic hands raised clearly identifiable in uniform 100 yards within Gaza trying to help an injured person is shot dead in cold blood. Readers aren't dumb. They can see exactly what happened.

LOL. You should apply for a job as a  spokesman for the Hamas dictatorship.

She was no medic? Know why? Because she was not a nurse and not a paramedic. Nor was she a physician nor even a physician's helper.

 

How do you know her hands were raised?  That's certainly new information. As you must have been present to have seen her hands raised, why would she have raised her hands if she was supposedly in the middle of helping someone. Did she  just raise her hands in joy as she  got to the rousing chorus of the beloved Hamas  ditty Death to the Jews and just could not contain her glee? Why would she raise her hands if there were no Israelis in proximity?

 

Identifiable in uniform? What  uniform? She was wearing a white coat. Butchers wear them. Stock boys wear them. Shopgirls at the cosmetics counter at Robinsons wear them. It means absolutely nothing. Wearing a white jacket doesn't  bestow magical powers and an aura of protection particularly if one is in the midst of a violent attack on someone. All that  we have here is a dead female wearing a white jacket who may have been hit by an Israeli bullet. It could just as well have been an attackers bullet since they are firing their weapons into Israel.

 

If you are so concerned for the safety of the attackers, go and tell them to stop attacking Israel. 

The Arab world certainly doesn't care. Today another bomb went off in Syria and more  little arab cherubs died than died last week  at the Gaza fence. I expect that a few more will be dead in Yemen and Iraq by the end of the day. Not a word from you though. 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by geriatrickid

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Elfin said:

Then........

How many bullets, teargas cannisters, tank shells and missiles (from the IAF) have been fired in a similar 24 hour period by Israeli troops? I am asking you seeing you seem keen to compile statistics.

Of course most of the Palestinian home made rockets without any guidance systems do no damage except make a small hole in a field. How many Israelis have been killed or injured in this current protest? 0?

 

Once more with the inane arguments about supposed balance.

 

This isn't a schoolyard fight, nor a boxing ring. May want to leave out your apparent assumptions about war being fair. It isn't. Same goes for disparity in casualty figures. While I get it some feel the need for this to be "balanced" as well, there is no such obligation. A country needs to protect it's citizens, not satisfy the twisted desires of biased posters.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Elfin said:

Send off?

Your minority view (Israel's IDF was justified in shooting her.) is repulsive.

Those who think like you are a big part of the problem.

 

Whereas those that think the Palestinians (and especially the likes of Hamas and Islamic Jihad) can do no wrong, are part of the solution? How about posters justifying Israelis being killed and murdered by Palestinians? Are they repulsive as well?

[Morch]

57 minutes ago, dexterm said:

The case is simple: a young female medic hands raised clearly identifiable in uniform 100 yards within Gaza trying to help an injured person is shot dead in cold blood. Readers aren't dumb. They can see exactly what happened.

Simple also to admit it was wrong and perhaps investigate the chain of command to find out who has ordered this cold blooded murder policy rather than more non lethal crowd control weapons usage, and change that policy because it is morally indefensible and massively bad PR for Israel.

 

But instead there is a mixture of logical acrobatics, nitpicking over terminology, muddying the timeline, streams of turgid deflections and trolls, even the musings of sadistic weirdos... all of which are not doing Israel any favors. Counter productive. In fact Israel's and its apologists' excuses have actually created a greater global awareness of the injustice Israel perpetrates against the Palestinians. If Israel and its apologists wanted to stifle that awareness, their silly antics have in fact done the opposite.

 

Simple is as simple posts.

 

You do not know the actual details. You parrot an unverified version, treating it as gospel.

 

Admitting wrongs comments are, again, rather disingenuous coming from someone routinely refusing admitting any wrongs committed by Palestinians.

 

The IDF already announced that there will be an investigation (which you will dismiss regardless).

 

You parrot phrases like "non lethal crowd control weapons usage", and yet ignore the fact that these aren't actually readily available, and their effectiveness in this situation questionable. We've been over this one, and you're still dodging.

 

As for "a mixture of logical acrobatics, nitpicking over terminology, muddying the timeline, streams of turgid deflections and trolls, even the musings of sadistic weirdos..." - that would pretty much describe your posting style, both on this topic and others. Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, car720 said:

Sorry but the collateral damage thing just doesn't work for me.  We are often told just how elite these guys are supposed to be.  A chest shot doesn't sound like collateral damage to me.

 

You're going on about memes, which is fine for some, I guess.

[geriatrickid]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

The topic is Gaza, Israel and Palestinians not Syria and Afghanistan

Unfortunately, the use of  children and the mentally disabled to  carry IEDs is common in Gaza. The use of women as combatants is also common. Therefore, if  a woman is in a  conflict zone and is intermingled with hostile combatants she will be  considered a hostile. 

 

The fact of the matter is  that only one version of events has been presented.None of it has actually been corroborated. Oh yes, it seems nice that this woman was a crusading nurse. It seems even more heroic that she was described as 21. Well, now the truth comes out;

 

WAFA the  Palestinian news agency confirms that she was 20. Awfully, young to be a nurse, or even a paramedic, but perhaps she was super brilliant, because surely any place where people launch repeated violent attacks against a defended border must be a place of great  genius.

 But wait, it gets better,  she couldn't  get into university because her grades were so poor. Instead she went to the local Nasser hospital in Khoun  ounis to work as an orderly and to learn some basic skills. Her work has since been described as having undergone paramedic training at the hospital.

How odd.

Very Odd.

Because the hospital says it  doesn't have resources to deliver basic medical care let alone train anyone. Know what else? Nasser hospital doesn't train paramedics. Only the PRCS and approved NGOs train paramedics.   The deceased was NOT a paramedic.

Know what else is odd? It is very,very, very unusual for a woman to be able to render medical assistance to a male in a patriarchal Muslim country. She couldn't just  put her hands on any guy she thought needed assistance. It is verboten.

 

This story starts with a lie and continues with additional falsehoods, all intended to mislead. The deceased was a willing participant during a violent attack against a sovereign country. The intent was to invade Israel.  She was killed  when the invasion was repelled.   That's the reality.. She was not a nurse, nor was she a paramedic.

 

 

 

[Morch]

 

@geriatrickid

 

IMO, you're overdoing it. That she wasn't very professionally trained isn't very relevant. As far as I'm aware there's no contesting claims that she did other than what was said - treating those hurt. Whether people like it or not, it's legit. The patriarchal society bit is actually addressed in the link bellow. While Arab and Palestinian societies are indeed patriarchal in nature, and do restrict women - reality does not always strictly conform to stereotypes.

 

A Woman Dedicated to Saving Lives Loses Hers in Gaza Violence

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/02/world/middleeast/gaza-paramedic-killed.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fmiddleeast

[wabothai]

15 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Not brave, just stupid.

Her death achieves nothing. NOTHING. She participated in a violent attack on Israel and died. Propaganda for Hamas, but nothing else.  You will forget about her next month. Do you remember the names of the  jihadists who died last week? Last month? Last year? 5 years ago?

 

If she was that dedicated to improving the lives of the Arabs in Hamas ruled Gaza, she could have helped women with family planning so they were not denied birth control and forced to produce 10+ kids, or she could have taught sex education to the young  children so that they understand it is not appropriate for older relatives to  rape young boys and  girls aged 10 or 5.  Or she could have volunteered with one of the many NGOs working to address Gaza's obesity and smoking epidemic. More Gazans die in any given month due to heart & lung disease due to smoking and over eating than they do of  violence with Israel.

Nothing stopped this woman from having a peaceful life except her hatred for Israel and her being brainwashed by Islamic wackos.

 

You may want to rethink your last sentence

[dexterm]

2 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

LOL. You should apply for a job as a  spokesman for the Hamas dictatorship.

She was no medic? Know why? Because she was not a nurse and not a paramedic. Nor was she a physician nor even a physician's helper.

 

How do you know her hands were raised?  That's certainly new information. As you must have been present to have seen her hands raised, why would she have raised her hands if she was supposedly in the middle of helping someone. Did she  just raise her hands in joy as she  got to the rousing chorus of the beloved Hamas  ditty Death to the Jews and just could not contain her glee? Why would she raise her hands if there were no Israelis in proximity?

 

Identifiable in uniform? What  uniform? She was wearing a white coat. Butchers wear them. Stock boys wear them. Shopgirls at the cosmetics counter at Robinsons wear them. It means absolutely nothing. Wearing a white jacket doesn't  bestow magical powers and an aura of protection particularly if one is in the midst of a violent attack on someone. All that  we have here is a dead female wearing a white jacket who may have been hit by an Israeli bullet. It could just as well have been an attackers bullet since they are firing their weapons into Israel.

 

If you are so concerned for the safety of the attackers, go and tell them to stop attacking Israel. 

The Arab world certainly doesn't care. Today another bomb went off in Syria and more  little arab cherubs died than died last week  at the Gaza fence. I expect that a few more will be dead in Yemen and Iraq by the end of the day. Not a word from you though. 

 

 

Besides your far fetched fantasy of her being a terrorist disguised as a medic at the point she was cold blooded singled out and shot in the chest 100 yards from the fence, she would also have to have been a combination of Usain Bolt and Wonder Woman so that before the heavily armed and protected IDF were remotely threatened, she could sprint to and cross the double razor wire fence, leap across a defensive ditch, and mount the IDF raised entrenchment.

 

Your theory does not hold water, and does no favors for Israel, because everyone can see through it.

 

A normal army or police force's rules of engagement in a crowd control situation involve use of lethal force only as a last resort when their lives are threatened. That's why this is a war crime.

Edited June 3, 2018 by dexterm