44 minutes ago, Elfin said:

Morch, I appreciate that you try to present a balanced view sometimes, but your sources for "weapons in the ambulance" stories appear to be all pro-Israeli publications.

 

Only that's not quite the case. Two out of the four sources linked aren't Israeli. Three out of the four sources linked cannot be described as "pro-Israeli publications". As for "balanced view", doubt accepting Hamas reports without any doubts applies.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Elfin said:

No, but I can read.

Who's to say the Palestinians didn't intentionally shoot her to keep this issue on the nightly news shows around the world. I would not put this beyond Hamas for a single nanosecond. I do have trouble believing that an Israeli soldier would intentionally shoot an unarmed nurse rendering aid. One side in this conflict has credibility and it is not Hamas.

Who's to say the Palestinians didn't intentionally shoot her to keep this issue on the nightly news shows around the world. I would not put this beyond Hamas for a single nanosecond. I do have trouble believing that an Israeli soldier would intentionally shoot an unarmed nurse rendering aid. One side in this conflict has credibility and it is not Hamas.

Really ? Why not? Elor Azaria is a national hero for shooting dead a Palestinian motionless on the ground.

I am Firmly on the side of Israel and against terrorism and aggression but with the current government and situation one must call a spade a spade.

9 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Who's to say the Palestinians didn't intentionally shoot her to keep this issue on the nightly news shows around the world. I would not put this beyond Hamas for a single nanosecond. I do have trouble believing that an Israeli soldier would intentionally shoot an unarmed nurse rendering aid. One side in this conflict has credibility and it is not Hamas.

 

You can find it hard to believe, but like any army, it's not like all IDF actions are acceptable or legit. Wouldn't be a first. And while the Hamas will obviously exploit this to the max (same goes for some posters), doubt theories she was intentionally shot by her own got much to rely on.

41 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Ok , just checked the term " Nazi " ...it seems this term is exclusivley reserved for the german Nazis from WW II .

So that was not the right word to use than ... so what about Israels strong Nationalism that is disrespecting human lifes and rights ... does that sound better to you >>>?

 

Nope, that would simply be you trolling. It's not like "strong nationalism" doesn't play a part on either side of the fence, or that it is not a factor when it comes to Palestinian violence. Also, this line of "reasoning" ignores the fact that protests were violent, and that letting protestors cross over is not an option.

 

I just can't get it by me that snipers are used against protesters.

 

No wonder the increasing world wide hatred versus the israeli government and its 'defenders'.

About Hamas :

 

It is absolutely inhuman and disrespectful to human life to bring their own people in a situation where they are risking their lives for publicty puposes .

These are not nice people , they exploit their own people , just to damage the reputation of Israel ( whatever is left of this ... )

 

My sympathy is with the simple palestinian farmer who grows olive trees on his land for generations , and suddenly sees his trees burned down and destroyed by Israeli soldiers who tell him that he has got only little time to move away and never come back , or they would burn his house and family .

 

It is the simple people that I like , the ones that cultivate the earth , that work hard with their hands for a small income , just enough to survive ... and consequently lose everything because they do not have the power to protect themselves  ... and anyway , how could they  ?

I do not know if there is a God or not, but I'd like to think that the  people killing in the name of their religion will be in a little bit more hotter place than having iced tea with the big man (or woman)

1 minute ago, wabothai said:

I just can't get it by me that snipers are used against protesters.

 

No wonder the increasing world wide hatred versus the israeli government and its 'defenders'.

 

Applying labels like "protesters" is one way to represent things. Another would be to actually have a clue what comes under this label. If one's idea of a legitimate protest includes using firearms, planting IED's, trying to storm borders and army positions, or setting fire to fields - perhaps things are seen differently.

 

Not a whole lot of informed suggestions as to better, effective ways of deterring such actions (even from those not blinkered enough to outright deny them). Not a whole lot of thought applied to how things would pan out if a mass breach of the fence would take place.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Morch said:

Two out of the four sources linked aren't Israeli.

The Sydney Morning Herald has many pro-Israeli journalists and the Washington Post is often accused by peace groups of presenting biased opinions that whitewash the imbalance of the 2 sides.

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Applying labels like "protesters" is one way to represent things. Another would be to actually have a clue what comes under this label. If one's idea of a legitimate protest includes using firearms, planting IED's, trying to storm borders and army positions, or setting fire to fields - perhaps things are seen differently.

 

Not a whole lot of informed suggestions as to better, effective ways of deterring such actions (even from those not blinkered enough to outright deny them). Not a whole lot of thought applied to how things would pan out if a mass breach of the fence would take place.

 

 

Oh , come on , don't be such a hypocrite ... if they would not be shot on the border directly , they would die a few meters behind it ... Israel was well prepared for this with tanks etc ...

2 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

About Hamas :

 

It is absolutely inhuman and disrespectful to human life to bring their own people in a situation where they are risking their lives for publicty puposes .

These are not nice people , they exploit their own people , just to damage the reputation of Israel ( whatever is left of this ... )

 

My sympathy is with the simple palestinian farmer who grows olive trees on his land for generations , and suddenly sees his trees burned down and destroyed by Israeli soldiers who tell him that he has got only little time to move away and never come back , or they would burn his house and family .

 

It is the simple people that I like , the ones that cultivate the earth , that work hard with their hands for a small income , just enough to survive ... and consequently lose everything because they do not have the power to protect themselves  ... and anyway , how could they  ?

 

The Palestinians could always opt for replacing their leaderships, if these fail them (and IMO, they do). Most of what you posted is irrelevant to the Gaza Strip, though. And while it may apply to the West Bank (and it should certainly be denounced and resisted), the Palestinians living there are still better off then their brothers in the Gaza Strip.

A post containing a copyrighted photo has been removed, a reply has removed as well. 

 

An off topic post has been removed. 

2 minutes ago, Elfin said:

The Sydney Morning Herald has many pro-Israeli journalists and the Washington Post is often accused by peace groups of presenting biased opinions that whitewash the imbalance of the 2 sides.

 

Allow me to take what you define "pro-Israeli" with a grain (or truckload) of salt. Accepting such claims on the force of your point of view is not an option. The Washington Post often carries articles critical of Israel's government and policies.

 

And still no explanation why make faux whines about this, while accepting Hamas reports as gospel.

 

If you got to deflect, try harder.

 

13 minutes ago, wabothai said:

I just can't get it by me that snipers are used against protesters.

 

No wonder the increasing world wide hatred versus the israeli government and its 'defenders'.

So true.

Radical Zionists are the worst enemies of Jews all over the world.

No amount of Hasbara spin can refute that fact.

5 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Oh , come on , don't be such a hypocrite ... if they would not be shot on the border directly , they would die a few meters behind it ... Israel was well prepared for this with tanks etc ...

 

Guess you misunderstood the point. If there would have been a mass breach of the fence by the Palestinians, the death toll would have been significantly higher. If someone imagines that is a better option, I would like to understand how and why.

 

@DeaconJohn

 

What "fact"? Oh, you mean the faulty bit of bogus reasoning you present as "fact"?

 

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The Palestinians could always opt for replacing their leaderships, if these fail them (and IMO, they do). Most of what you posted is irrelevant to the Gaza Strip, though. And while it may apply to the West Bank (and it should certainly be denounced and resisted), the Palestinians living there are still better off then their brothers in the Gaza Strip.

The problem is the hate is too big already ... if Israel would agree to a palestinian state , that could be a first step to peace ...

18 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

I do not know if there is a God or not, but I'd like to think that the  people killing in the name of their religion will be in a little bit more hotter place than having iced tea with the big man (or woman)

If there is a god , he would have created the whole universe ( big beyond imagination ) , and would be certainly to busy to listen to your prayers , 555 , so better help yourself ...

1 minute ago, nobodysfriend said:

The problem is the hate is too big already ... if Israel would agree to a palestinian state , that could be a first step to peace ...

 

Topic is about the Gaza Strip, hence Hamas. Hamas is not particularly into accepting Israel or a permanent peace. Making biased, simplistic wide brush comments about the conflict is one way of derailing such topics.

19 minutes ago, Morch said:

And still no explanation why make faux whines about this, while accepting Hamas reports as gospel

Morch, I am not just "whining" on what is printed here, but I am also reading what NGO's are publishing about this sick crime as well.

Edited June 2, 20188 yr by Elfin

1 hour ago, metisdead said:

Posts containing offensive hyperbolic Nazi generalizations have been removed as well as the replies. 

 

A post containing an unsubstantiated claim has been removed as well. 

 

 

Another post containing an offensive hyperbolic Nazi generalization has been removed. 

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

@DeaconJohn

 

What "fact"? Oh, you mean the faulty bit of bogus reasoning you present as "fact"?

 

The fact of Israeli isolation by the international community is expressed in many ways.

The recent UN vote was one of them.

With the exception of the trusty old US, not one vote supported Israel. 

9 minutes ago, Elfin said:

Morch, I am not just "whining" on what is printed here, but I am also reading what NGO's are publishing about this sick crime as well.

 

You are lamely trying to deflect facts, by making bogus claims on bias.

The facts stand that there were instances of Palestinians using ambulances (and hospitals, schools, mosques and reporter badges) in terrorist or violent actions. You claimed this was "pure propaganda". It obviously isn't. Unless your claim is that the facts are fabricated - can't see where you're going with this.

13 minutes ago, DeaconJohn said:

The fact of Israeli isolation by the international community is expressed in many ways.

The recent UN vote was one of them.

With the exception of the trusty old US, not one vote supported Israel. 

 

That's nice. But then you're ignoring that not all votes were in favor, and that the vote did not amount to the level of condemnations and hatred often expressed in your (and others') posts. That's simply a bit of creative co-opting.

 

As for "isolation" - do tell. Did many countries cut their relations with Israel or anything of the sort?

 

And obviously, your previous comment was a bit more nonsensical than that, eh?

Edited June 2, 20188 yr by Morch

Morch, unfortunately I am very busy at the moment, and while I have been finding the time to occasionally post on here, I will go through my files to refute your accusations when I have more free time.

31 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Topic is about the Gaza Strip, hence Hamas. Hamas is not particularly into accepting Israel or a permanent peace. Making biased, simplistic wide brush comments about the conflict is one way of derailing such topics.

Wrong - this topic is about " Israeli army kills Palestinian nurse in Gaza border protest - medics - "

 

may be better to stay on the topic instead of wasting time with the usual blabla about how poor Israel can protect itself from it's enemies ...?

Edited June 2, 20188 yr by nobodysfriend

4 hours ago, DeaconJohn said:

Hamas can be legitimately blamed for a lot of things, but not this.

Give one example - anywhere in the world - where people are being shot dead for approaching a border fence. 

The vast majority of those killed didn't have "incendiary devices and grenades", they were shot down in cold blood.

On this issue the whole world is against the US and Israel... and rightly so.

These are not people simply making peaceful protests at a border fence. Many are armed with intentions of smashing through the fence and entering into Israel illegally. The Israelis see this as trying to invade the country.

 

It is also well known that these Palestinian so-called peaceful protesters deliberately bring women and children into the war zone. All countries are entitled and justified in defending their borders against invaders, why should Israel be an exception?

 

Look, for example what the western allies are doing in Iraq and Syria, I haven`t heard of any protests of brutality in those cases. US and British troops returning from Iraq and Syria are treated as war heroes. 

 

It is a known fact that many of the Arab and Muslim nations deny Israel`s right to exist and given half a chance would destroy that country. Let`s be honest, who would want that lot as neighbours.

7 minutes ago, Elfin said:

Morch, unfortunately I am very busy at the moment, and while I have been finding the time to occasionally post on here, I will go through my files to refute your accusations when I have more free time.

 

You could have just copy/pasted this excuse from previous topics.

As for "accusations" - again, not too clear if you're actually claiming facts are fabricated or going off tangent trying to "establish" some supposed "bias". For argument's sake, even if there was such "bias", it wouldn't alter the facts. Note that most sourced linked are also often used by posters expressing anti-Israel positions.

7 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Wrong - this topic is about " Israeli army kills Palestinian nurse in Gaza border protest - medics - "

 

may be better to stay on the topic instead of wasting time with the usual blabla about how poor Israel can protect itself from it's enemies ...?

 

You are the one who brought up some nonsense simplistic comment about solving the conflict. It was pointed out that the OP deals with the Gaza Strip (so, not "wrong"), and accordingly, the Hamas (which pretty much controls the protests - so not "wrong", again).

 

Your nonsense comment was addressed and debunked. Guess inane deflections are the way to go when you can't handle that. There was nothing in my posts about "how poor Israel can protect itself from it's enemies" - that's just some made up nonsense you threw in.