Trump statue in Philadelphia commemorates ‘a lifetime of sexual assault’

[bkk shadow]

Hi I work for a decent language school in Bangkok. University Degree with certified copy of University Transcipt required. Proper TESOl, CELTA, or DELTA checked by school also required. And I believe when I re-sign my contract police record check.

China, Vietnam, Laos, Korea - No Degree Required.

From my experience this is where the majority of under-qualified teachers end up. They are shipping young teachers to China by the container load, after completing a 2 week course, to fill the huge demand. And People on here say China is the way forward ?????

[isaanbrit]

If you read this article closely, it says that any foreigner working in Thailand for a year must have a degree.

Huh?

Should the words "as a teacher" be added to the first sentence?

Well, actualy no! The "real" law which is never enforced actually says that any foreigner wanting a WP should have a degree :-)

[chiang mai]

I believe that a degree is the requirement to teach English, but does this apply to teaching other subjects?

This is not an uncommon criterion for teachers of all subjects, around the world.

I the UK many teachers do not have degrees

That's because we're smarter than most folks

[wilko]

Wh is it that everyone knows all about teaching?

If you ask someone to fix your car, they will decline saying they know nothing about mechanics

Ask them to diagnose your illness they say they can't,

ask them to do your accounts they tell you to get an accountant

but TEACHING....they'll go on for hours on what you should and shouldn't do!

[Neeranam]

Unqualified teachers makes EACH AND EVERY farang in Thailand look bad, be they tourist or teacher, qualified or not.

Are you saying a teacheer without a degree helping Thai kids makes the sexpat in Pattaya look bad?

[isaanbrit]

Now, here's what people should be considering...

Yes, a good teacher needs to be qualified but regular Thai students DO NOT NEED GOO D TEACHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

What they need is chance to practise their English. They know it from books and Thai teachers teach grammar better than ferangs. But they nevewr have the opertunity to practice it.

My Thai friends who speak English best have ferang friends, people who don;t jusat cant speak English. I have seen massive improvments in students who have learnt for one hour a week with "khao sarn roaders" because they actually enjoy chatting to them in English.

So, as a final thought - if a school was to hire a ferang, not as a "teacher" but as a janitor, or as a driver, or "instructor", would they still need degrees ????? Whose to say that schools couldnt hire a ferang cook???

[wilko]

"Well, actualy no! The "real" law which is never enforced actually says that any foreigner wanting a WP should have a degree :-) "

So that means the vast majority of people NO MATTER WHAT their business is are breaking the law....so let's see a clamp-down on all the estate agents, property owners, computer repairers bar owners etc etc....get everybody out!

[bangkokgas]

There are lots of people that can be competent English teachers without a degree and there are those with degrees that are not competent. I could see beefing up the TEFL requirements so that the courses actually screen people out who can't teach.

very few competent teachers without a degree I would think...go home and get one!

those with degrees not nec competent...yep...

TEFL quals: mostly junk quals from rip-off colleges.....you get what you pay for....

Very few competent teachers without a degree?. At least at the very famous Japanese trading company I worked for 10 years thought there were. Half of the full-time teachers there (in Tokyo) did not have one but many (including myself had their "A" levels and an accredited T.E.F.L. certificate,we were able to get our work permits as we were married to japanese nationals and a degree ain't needed there). We were sub-contracted to teach at many of the Japanese government ministries and the work was demanding and yes, well paid. But my point is that those with degrees, even in education, did not fare better when it came to the evaluations each teacher received from either the client or the trading company.So, in my opinion, a degree is not necessary to be a competent teacher and the best thing Thailand could probably do is to accept those with experience and a T.E.F.L and all would be well.

[Brutiniero]

Hmmm, my problem is that I have a University degree in Economics and taught 7 years costing, accounting, marketing, economic politics, computer science and communication - but I am not a native English speaker.

I wanted to have a teaching job in order to get a Visa with workpermit so I can stay with my family in Thailand. After they canceled the "merriage Visa" for guys under 50 years of age we are in trouble.

[bangkokgas]

There are lots of people that can be competent English teachers without a degree and there are those with degrees that are not competent. I could see beefing up the TEFL requirements so that the courses actually screen people out who can't teach.

very few competent teachers without a degree I would think...go home and get one!

those with degrees not nec competent...yep...

TEFL quals: mostly junk quals from rip-off colleges.....you get what you pay for....

Very few competent teachers without a degree?. At least at the very famous Japanese trading company I worked for 10 years thought there were. Half of the full-time teachers there (in Tokyo) did not have one but many (including myself had their "A" levels and an accredited T.E.F.L. certificate,we were able to get our work permits as we were married to japanese nationals and a degree ain't needed there). We were sub-contracted to teach at many of the Japanese government ministries and the work was demanding and yes, well paid. But my point is that those with degrees, even in education, did not fare better when it came to the evaluations each teacher received from either the client or the trading company.So, in my opinion, a degree is not necessary to be a competent teacher and the best thing Thailand could probably do is to accept those with experience and a T.E.F.L and all would be well.

Oops...did'nt edit that too well. Does'nt bode well for my chances of a teaching job.....were i to want one that is.

hey, Wilko!! How are you doing! Have'nt read you on T.A. recently.

[just plain different]

The Thais want young, good-looking, well-mannered, intelligent and devoted teachers. Yeah, that's reasonable enough, but, they're only willing to pay burger-flipping wages to get it. In the US, min. wage @ 6.75 comes out to just over a grand a month (6.75X8=52 X5=260 X4= $1,040) = a pretty good salary for teaching in Thailand. Not good if one has to pay off college loans or wants to save money.

Basically, Thailand is asking qualified teachers to make a sacrifice in order to teach there (and a sacrifice that doesn't really help one's career path, either), but is only going to pay them as if they are all washed-out losers who are in Thailand for ulterior purposes and couldn't care less about teaching.

And thus, they end up with a problem of having lousy, unqualified teachers.

Problem is for a qualified teacher who isn't in Thailand for the, uh, nightlife, that there may not be enough perks to compensate for the lack of pay. Compare Korea where one can save as much as a couple thousand a month and where better qualified persons can get positions that give 3 months paid vacation (not one month unpaid, as I was offered by one high school).

I'd still like to live in Thailand though. But, if I really had a choice, I might prefer flipping burgers if it pulled in the same as teaching.

[JimmyGreaves]

very few competent teachers without a degree I would think...go home and get one!

those with degrees not nec competent...yep...

TEFL quals: mostly junk quals from rip-off colleges.....you get what you pay for....

i know bugger all about teaching english but in 20 years as programmer and manager in the computer business, i can tell you there is no correlation betweeen college degrees and ability to do a good job.

also, why do they equate not having a degree with pedophiles and criminal behavior! what's the basis for that.

steve

Totally agree Steve. I too have worked in the IT industry for 20 years and know many students who have come with a degree and are totally useless and then may people without a degree but with the determination to succeed and learn who have been wonders. Degrees are given away these days just for attendance!

so 'yoshiwara' I totally disagree with you

[Dupont]

So, you have a shortage of English Teachers in the country.

Great idea to get rid of most of your current teachers and scare the pants of any potential future teachers. The supply even of very poor, very poorly qualified teachers is going to dry up, let alone any teacher with a degree.

BA' Qualified teachers required, must enjoy travel as this job entails leaving the country at regular intervals with no quarantee you will be allowed back in. Employment rights very sorry, mai mee. Money, nit noi. Would suit motorcycle stunt driver (getting to work) or Blast furnace operative (no aircon classroom). All laws and terms of employment dictated by employer and subject to regualar sudden change with no prior consultation.

Eighteenth century here we come! Let the good times roll. Bring on the Burmese elephant cavalry, hareems, concubines, feudalism....

Edited January 31, 2007 by Dupont

[thai_narak]

Geting rid off teachrs is tipical, first expatts now us teeachrs we does a good job for this contry, who can tell them how to speech properly now, its bad enohugh gettin a order right in K.fC as it is, up to them, you can get digrees on the internet now anyway,so thay can't check evryone,can thay?

I think it's time for you to pack your bags...

[November Rain]

(...) But they nevewr have the opertunity to practice it.

My Thai friends who speak English best have ferang friends, people who don;t jusat cant speak English. I have seen massive improvments in students who have learnt for one hour a week with "khao sarn roaders" because they actually enjoy chatting to them in English.

Agree with this point. My Thai (step)son speaks fluent English at 5 yrs old. Not because I "teach" him in a literal sense, but because we speak English all the time. He even corrects his classmates' pronunciation! "My Mummy's English, she says it like this!"

His English lessons at school are given by Thai teachers & some of the mistakes are laughable. For instance, yesterday his homework was writing "K" words. One of the words was "Kuri" which was accompanied by a picture of a Christmas Tree. Has anyone ever heard that word before? I can't find it in my dictionary, and I know it hasn't got anywhere near common usage. Speaking as a parent, I'd rather have a competent native speaking teacher without a degree than a teacher who cannot even speak the language they are trying to teach.

On an aside, has anyone ever seen the "Brainbox" part of UBC Spark? It's an educational thing they do. They have a Thai girl reading a story in English & translating it. Her pronunciation is abominable. I'm not trying to make a point about Thais speaking English. I'm trying to say that nobody should teach a subject that they do not know or understand themselves.

[KireB]

You're all missing the point here.

The requirements state you need a bachelor degree to apply for work permit and linked visa.

If you apply with false (Khoa San Road) degrees, yes you face deportation!

It's you who's cheating, not the Thai government. Out you go, you deserve it.

The rules are the rules, how ludicrous they might be, it's you who's breaking them!

Some self refelection here please

[danmtl]

Tonythailand were did you learn English? i'm French native live in Canada for many year and i'm better than you.LOL

How they expect to get rid on "UNDESIRABLE" such as Pedophile when the UK as lost track of 1200 of them in their own country funny really

Thai national whom teach English cannot sustained a conversation and they expect to have good native with degree come and teach here for 500 us a month make me laugh how will they check background of degree when some lady whom learn in univeristy are now married and bare a new name witch they didn't register when they study.

The more it change the more it will be the same in Thailand low class citizen don't want to learn about western way of life or maybe their own General of this or general of that don't want them to learn because power to them is everything.

When they realise country don't have culture but history and the peoples make the culture well maybe something will change.

I pitty them

[thaipulse]

It's really a positive step that Thailand is at last doing SOMETHING. Whether it turns out to be meaningful change - we'll see.

There are hordes of people teaching here that shouldn't be. Yes, clean them out - the pedophiles with records, those that are running from murder warrants and other crimes... get rid of them.

There are teachers without certificates and degrees that are not teaching up to anyone's standards - not even Thai. There are those WITH degrees and certificates that are doing the same... Doesn't matter what qualifications someone has, what matters much more is CAN they and DO THEY teach well. I've met my share of degenerate teachers that were never qualified, faked their degrees on the computer with a graphics program or bought one in BKK. I've also met my share of teachers with real degrees and certificates (I think) - that are just choosing NOT to put a lot of effort into their lesson plans and are going along for the ride... they are not really interested in providing a good learning environment with challenges, fun classes, giving the kids interesting class periods filled with learning.

$800 USD is not the most meaningful salary... some teachers feel that to get them to WORK HARD they'd need more money. Some think, "$800 is great if I'm just showing up sometime in the morning, teaching 2-3 classes per day and using the internet all day." If Thailand wants to raise their requirements for teachers they will need to pay more. I really hope they see that.

But, if they start paying more they should also start evaluating whether they are getting good teachers for the money. Thais' I work with are so jealous that I make 4 times what they make in a month. Imagine if I made an appropriate salary of 7-10 times what they made? I think that our salaries are not likely to increase. Probably not at all. I do know that some government school English programs are starting to raise the salaries and benefits a bit. These are the well looked after babies of the country - the Thai government high schools and primary schools. Some have a reputation as providing a good education and so they are trying to step up to a level that will help them get good teachers. However, they STILL aren't getting enough of them.

I've taught for 2 years now - with work permits, at a respected government school. They are paying 33000 baht per month. No lunch, but VERY liberal holidays. This is 5000-8000 more than universities pay here for teachers. We have a decent group of teachers (I think), but the school is ALWAYS hiring since we've been short teachers during 70% of the year.

I've had administrators come exactly ZERO times to see what I was teaching. Zero! I've not had one person come into my class and evaluate what the hel_l I was doing!

So, if the Thais' are going to focus on changing for the better - and they want REAL and quality change, they need to focus on evaluating whether someone CAN teach and is interested in teaching, and DOES teach... not just ensuring teachers have a valid piece of paper from a University or English certificate program.

My guess is that we're not going to see that. But I'm going to hope for it! In the meantime I'm considering going to Korea for a year. I've got a master's degree and 2 years of teaching experience and I try hard to give the kids a good class every class. In Korea they'll pay for that - it means something there. Here it means... 33000 baht of which I can save 10000 per month. Sure, living in Korea is not everyone's idea of fun. Personally I think it will suck. But, there's a tradeoff. Maybe in the next couple years another country will present itself as willing to pay teachers a good salary - comparable with Korea and have a better atmosphere. If there is such a country now, please let me know!

Thailand is an incredible place for the culture, people and the lifestyle... but too little income for most hard working, qualified people not living on a pension, not addicted to the bargirls, pot, or do-nothing lifestyle.

Maybe in a couple years Thailand will BE that country that pays well and is a much better option than Korea... maybe?

maybe

Vern

ThaiPulse.com

[Scott]

Some of this is absolute crap. I've worked at a school for 10 years. Most of the "undegreed" teachers are worthless. They can't teach and it takes anywhere from 1 to 2 years to get them anway near up to speed in a classroom. (during that time there are 2 years of lost education).

Secondly, they can't prepare, write, or correct a test that in any way reflects either what they have taught or what the students have learned. I've seen them write incorrect grammar and loads of spelling mistakes and when you mention it to them, you get a "well, that's how we say it in...., or that's how we spell it in...,

Finally, when they do give a test and 98% of the students have failed, they complain that they are all dumb, all Thais are dumb, they aren't capable of learning etc.

When you compare these "teachers" with qualified teachers, it's like comparing a horse and donkey. Qualified teachers dont' endlessly blame their students...and certainly not the race or nationality of the student. They write exams that are indicative of what they have taught and use the exam as a measure of what they have taught. Low scores will prompt things like "....we will need to cover this material again because a lot of students don't seem to quite understand it." Etc. Etc.

Qualified teachers are professionals. Unqualified teachers are....unqualified.

[Ijustwannateach]

*Sigh*. Here we go again.

I'll add some links to this post in a minute which point out two or three old threads where this dead horse has been flogged.

What has really happened: no review of credentials has taken place. Apparently, the Thai police took the database of one of these fake degree mills (I don't have any information about whether the mill in question was shut down afterwards, but probably not, tit) and is now arresting the foreigners whose names were found to be associated with the fake degrees from that mill.

It's hardly worth repeating yet again, but IMHO: for TEFL to kids, just a TEFL's ok. For subject teaching, get a related college degree or better.

***Yawn...***

[rexall]

"To obtain a work permit to work legally in Thailand for a year, one of the requirements is to have a university degree, which needless to say, few foreign aspirant teachers have."

What is the basis of this assertion?

I would have thought that the majority did have degrees.

I believe that a degree is the requirement to teach English, but does this apply to teaching other subjects?

This is an old debate, and not simply as it relates to employment in Thailand. Exactly what type of employment does a four-year college degree prepare or qualify an individual to perform? If one is honest about it, damned little! It most cases, it simply provides a place to park teenagers so they can stay out of trouble and mature for a few more years before entering the job market. Possibly becoming more "rounded" in their development. It certainly has nothing to do with teaching unless one is an education major, and even then there is precious little practical teacher training. That is left for the Masters (or in the UK system, certificate and diploma levels. At least in that respect, the UK has always been way ahead of the U.S.).

The problem is that a bachelors has become the basic entry level qualification into the job market for anything above being a clerk at MacDonalds. Everyone is pressured to obtain one even if they are ill-suited for college. It represents what the high school diploma used to represent several decades ago. Yet, at the same time, it has become god-awful expensive, US$25-$50K, and keeping the dear little flowers in a greenhouse for four years seems kind of wasteful.

If an individual, for whatever reasons, has missed the opportunity to obtain a bachelors, as an adult they are in serious trouble. If a person needs a masters at some point in their life, there are myriad ways quickly obtain (1-2 years) for relatively little money compared to the bachelors. There are many masters programs tailored to working adults which combine classroom instruction, online training and independent research which make this possible for mid-career professionals. On the other hand, it is not so easy to return to school for the bachelors; 4 years and the traditional 120 (U.S.) credits. And one wonders how the financial benefits over the long-haul compare to the costs of obtaining the degree. And it is not just the actual costs, but the loss of income for being out of the job market for four years that needs to be factored in. And as someone here pointed out, all this for a 25K-35K THB for a teaching job in Thailand? I don't think so!

In a perfect world, there would be a rich variety of educational paths and directions individuals could follow at different stages in their life. Yes, employers would be much more concerned with an employee's ability to perform rather than his or her degrees. Moreover there would be simple and effective ways to measure an applicants ability and suitability above and beyond what is printed on a CV. But that is simply a fantasy that is going to require an entire paradigm shift to realize--and no one should hold their breath waiting for it!

Those who point out that the system is unfair to capable but un-degreed teachers, make a valid point. They always have. But it does not and will not change the reality that the bachelors is the entry-level qualification in this day and age.

Aloha,

Rex

[Ijustwannateach]

Some of this is absolute crap. I've worked at a school for 10 years. Most of the "undegreed" teachers are worthless. They can't teach and it takes anywhere from 1 to 2 years to get them anway near up to speed in a classroom. (during that time there are 2 years of lost education).

Secondly, they can't prepare, write, or correct a test that in any way reflects either what they have taught or what the students have learned. I've seen them write incorrect grammar and loads of spelling mistakes and when you mention it to them, you get a "well, that's how we say it in...., or that's how we spell it in...,

Finally, when they do give a test and 98% of the students have failed, they complain that they are all dumb, all Thais are dumb, they aren't capable of learning etc.

When you compare these "teachers" with qualified teachers, it's like comparing a horse and donkey. Qualified teachers dont' endlessly blame their students...and certainly not the race or nationality of the student. They write exams that are indicative of what they have taught and use the exam as a measure of what they have taught. Low scores will prompt things like "....we will need to cover this material again because a lot of students don't seem to quite understand it." Etc. Etc.

Qualified teachers are professionals. Unqualified teachers are....unqualified.

Not to disagree with you (I don't find the undegreed teachers all that great myself) but you do realise that from the viewpoint of most super-specially qualified teachers, if you don't have a current valid teacher's LICENSE from your Home Country (much less an Ed. degree), you're no more qualified? I mean, just a thought while we're throwing stones....

[ThaiGoon]

I think people who are comparing Thai salaries to those in the west should keep in mind that the cost of living in Thailand is also peanuts compared to, say, one in the US. It's all relative. If you make 20k Baht a month in Thailand, you could make a decent living. But if you make just the minimum wage in the US, you'd obviously struggle to make ends meet.

From my own experiences, I also agree with Isaanbrit that the chances to practice english for Thai students are the most important thing for them to improve their English. Having good English teachers helps, but not to the same extent that real experiences in conversing in English do.

[Bodi]

i know bugger all about teaching english but in 20 years as programmer and manager in the computer business, i can tell you there is no correlation betweeen college degrees and ability to do a good job.

also, why do they equate not having a degree with pedophiles and criminal behavior! what's the basis for that.

steve

It has more to do with the social structure here in Thailand, and how they automaticaly place Thai values on the rest of the world. Most of our respective homelands do the same to an extent, if we sit down and think about it. Thais class each other by where they were born, their names, possesion's, physical characterisitcs, and just about anything else you can think of. To be educated automaticaly places you into a class of your own. Those with degrees most certainly do not commit offenses; this is left to those of the lower, uneducated class of people. It's status here, nothing more, nothing less. There is not much lateral thinking when it comes to a "degree"; if you have one the your naturaly not a criminal. The substance behind the degree itself matters very little to your status as a whole. It may matter more or less, from individual to individual, but not to your status as viewed by your peers. Just ask anyone who has worked with or around many upper class Thais, they have bound to have been asked asked at one point or another to translate a document, or thesis( passed along from one country to the next) in order for that person to obtain a Master's or Doctors certificate. I have been approached several times within the past 6 years to this. It seems that if you know the right people, and have the right monetory amount, a Thai need not ever attend a class. I have friends that have been payed large sums of money to translate stolen or bought, American Phd Thesis documents into Thai, in order for High Ranking School Officials to obtain a Graduate Degree. Most of these individuals simply had to present the documents, pay said ammount, and then hang that puppy on the wall. Having the degree is much mor important than how you recieved or what you learned in the process. Having dated the same Thai girl for the past 3 years, and watching her progress through here last 3 years at a prestigous Thai University, I am amazed the average Thai learns anything at all. Most, if not everything, is passed along from memory stick to memory stick; most of which has probably been along from year to year. I rarley see her or her classmates study. I remember not doing much more than study, through my college years. I am always amazed when I see the grades obtained without ever opening a book. Keep in mind that I'm speaking in general terms. I know many extremely hard working, intelligent Thai's, who worked very hard to earn their respective degrees. There are always exceptions to the rule.

[BlackJack]

this is not off the topic as we are talking about pay peanuts get monkey teachers

I thought (correct me if wrong) that Immigration to get a WP has monthly salaries at 65K

[loong]

Ever since I arrived here on my non o visas I've been pestered to go and teach at the local schools here in La Un, Ranong. Despite pleas of I'm not a teacher, and even a blunt no. It was you speak English, you do it. Of late the cetang has finally dropped, and all I get now is occaisionally kids asking for help with homework. The so called Thai English teachers in the 4 schools that approached me, can not hold a conversation in the language the are supposedly teaching. So if a native English teacher wishes to teach if approached by the local primary schools. What's the problem. Just get the police to do a check with the police in his/her native country. At least the kids would get an ear for how the language is used, and not just be limited to "Hello" and "What is your name?", the dissolving into a fit of giggles.

Totally agree.

I have helped the teachers in Thai schools on occasion and I'm positive that it helps the children to listen to a native speaker.

Almost without exception, my conversations with the teachers has been in Thai as they are unable to speak the language that they are teaching.

[sanook1]

Ever since I arrived here on my non o visas I've been pestered to go and teach at the local schools here in La Un, Ranong. Despite pleas of I'm not a teacher, and even a blunt no. It was you speak English, you do it. Of late the cetang has finally dropped, and all I get now is occaisionally kids asking for help with homework. The so called Thai English teachers in the 4 schools that approached me, can not hold a conversation in the language the are supposedly teaching. So if a native English teacher wishes to teach if approached by the local primary schools. What's the problem. Just get the police to do a check with the police in his/her native country. At least the kids would get an ear for how the language is used, and not just be limited to "Hello" and "What is your name?", the dissolving into a fit of giggles.

Yes I totally agree with you. My Brother is here with his indonesian Wife Teaching English, they have 2 baby girls 1 and 2 years old. He has a degree and is fully qualified but apparently most of the other teachers are not qualified. They are a ###### site better than the alternative though.

[Ijustwannateach]

Ah, here we go- we went through this not so long ago here in the news forum on this thread.

And long, long ago, I said as much as I really can say about it on the Teacher's Forum (where this subject is now off-limits because it always ends in tears) on this thread.

Have fun and play nice, people.

"Steven"

[thaiexp]

This is the problem. The Thai "English teachers" are hopelessly under-qualified and have little or no English. Bringing in unqualified native speakers is seen as a big improvement. The truth is that most private language schools in Thailand never cared less how qualified the teachers is, as long as they put a white face in front of the class, then they get paid!

There seems to be a major clampdown right now and it is having a big effect. I run a Gap Year program in Thailand and the local schools I deal with are now insisting that all teachers have a checkable BA degree, TEFL certificate and a criminal record check. Before they were happy with just a TEFL although 98% of our group already had all required qualifications. We can no longer accept the odd applicant who had excellent credentials but no degree.

Personally i don't think a degree make you a better teacher but it can help to weed out some of the so-called undesirables.

Another major problem is that most of the TEFL Schools in Thailand are a joke. Have a look at their websites and see how many grammar and spelling mistakes you can spot. One is Thailand's longest serving academy yet their website looks like it's been written by one of those Thai English teachers. The other "Worlds largest TESOL provider" isn't much better. Both claim to have recently been "approved" by the Thai Ministry of Education...... this sums it up!

Let's hope that standards are maintained after the dust settles, I would bank on it though.

[phuketdiver]

I believe that a degree is the requirement to teach English, but does this apply to teaching other subjects?

This is not an uncommon criterion for teachers of all subjects, around the world.

I the UK many teachers do not have degrees

Ah - if only you knew. ALL teachers in the UK MUST have a degree in teaching - they either attend a teachers training college where they gain not only their degree but also vast experience in teaching technigues or must do a further 2 years doing a teachers degree once they have finished a normal degree at a university.

My ex spent 5 years at university / college to gain her teachers quilifications - not the 10 weeks it takes with TEFL

Why would anyone not allow the children of this country the same rights to quality education that they would want for their own children in other countries, or that we ourselves enjoyed?

I have met teachers working in schools who are TEFL trained, whose second or sometimes third language is English and I have not been able to understand what they were saying when speaking to me in English, and I am naive English born.

Yes the quality of teaching needs to be improved and in line with this the level of pay - Fully qualified teachers will only be able to get the level of salary they rightly deserve when there is a shortage of teachers available - and this will only be highlighted when they crack down on poorly trained, bad english speaking stop gaps.

The future of a Nation rests in its children and this generation has a duty to the next to ensure it gets the best possible eduction from the best trained people.

A quote to remember - we do not own the Earth, we only borrow it from future Generations

Phuketdiver