Supporting documents for all UK Visas to be digitally scanned from 15 June.

[Denim]

24 minutes ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

 

So sling in the old PP or not?

 

I assume there is little point in submitting copies of old UK stamps as they could be from any passport?

Personal choice I guess. We are but it is not a requirement.

However....it does at least show they returned as per promise on previous occasions. If you do submit them though they probably will not be retained. At least, that is the impression given out using the ' new system '

[Pat in Pattaya]

10 minutes ago, Denim said:

Personal choice I guess. We are but it is not a requirement.

However....it does at least show they returned as per promise on previous occasions. If you do submit them though they probably will not be retained. At least, that is the impression given out using the ' new system '

You are what? Are you referring to my first or second point?

[simoh1490]

44 minutes ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

 

So sling in the old PP or not?

 

I assume there is little point in submitting copies of old UK stamps as they could be from any passport?

In our case I think we're going to submit photocopies of the photo pages of the old passports along with photocopies of all stamps which they can verify online, I don't think I will copy the blank pages since my partner is already on the UK computer system and they would know if she has any negative travel history - the passport numbers should be enough to let them confirm these things, I don't know the UK really cares that a person might have been forcibly removed from a third country although I may be wrong on this point.

[Denim]

1 minute ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

You are what? Are you referring to my first or second point?

We are submitting the old passports plus a photocopy of the UK visas granted in each.

 

I find all this as frustrating as you since despite the reams of paperwork required there is still ambiguity . If everything was crystal clear there would be no need for threads like this.

 

My mother comes to Thailand for three weeks and all she has to do is buy a plane ticket. What a difference !

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, cornishcarlos said:

I'm sure the U.K also holds all adverse travel history on their computers... I always state in my letter of invite, that she has had several visas for different countries, none of which has ever been abused or overstayed.. Not sure if it helps or not ?

Yes they do, but only for the UK, not other countries.

The Entry Clearance Officer will have access to the applicants travel history with respect to the UK, as will the Border Force Arrival at the UK Border, but they will be just as interested in adverse travel history from other countries as they are from the UK, that's why full travel documents are needed.

[cornishcarlos]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I don't know the UK really cares that a person might have been forcibly removed from a third country although I may be wrong on this point.

 

I was deported from Zambia 20yrs ago, never had any issues getting in to any other country.

Obviously I don't have problems getting into U.K but pretty sure if the applicant has been issued previous visas with no overstays, then should be no worries.

[Pat in Pattaya]

4 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

In our case I think we're going to submit photocopies of the photo pages of the old passports along with photocopies of all stamps which they can verify online, I don't think I will copy the blank pages since my partner is already on the UK computer system and they would know if she has any negative travel history - the passport numbers should be enough to let them confirm these things, I don't know the UK really cares that a person might have been forcibly removed from a third country although I may be wrong on this point.

That is what I was thinking to do. No, you really shouldn't photocopy all the blank pages.

[cornishcarlos]

Just now, theoldgit said:

but they will be just as interested in adverse travel history from other countries as they are from the UK, that's why full travel documents are needed.

 

Obviously not in all cases. My wife was just issued a visit visa for U.K and we didn't submit any old passports !!

[theoldgit]

6 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I don't know the UK really cares that a person might have been forcibly removed from a third country although I may be wrong on this point.

Yes they will care, it may not stop you getting a visa or prevent you from being landed on arrival, but it could well lead to further questions being asked.

[simoh1490]

Just now, Pat in Pattaya said:

That is what I was thinking to do. No, you really shouldn't photocopy all the blank pages.

Well again, for the settlement visa that is a requirement.

 

You said earlier that the stamps could be from any passport - I think the purpose of including them is so the ECO can confirm the dates on their system so no, they can't have come from just any passport, they have to xref to the passport holder.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

Obviously not in all cases. My wife was just issued a visit visa for U.K and we didn't submit any old passports !!

Did she have any prior UK visit visas in those unsubmitted passports?

[theoldgit]

2 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

Obviously not in all cases. My wife was just issued a visit visa for U.K and we didn't submit any old passports !!

Clearly not in your case, and I suspect not in simoh1490's wifes case either, but if there's already a doubt in the head of the decision maker, absence of travel history could be an issue.
At the end of the day it's up to the applicant to decide what evidence to submit, it's the applicant who needs to satisfy the ECO that they have no adverse travel history.

[cornishcarlos]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Did she have any prior UK visit visas in those unsubmitted passports?

 

Yes

[cornishcarlos]

1 minute ago, theoldgit said:

Clearly not in your case, and I suspect not in simoh1490's wifes case either, but if there's already a doubt in the head of the decision maker, absence of travel history could be an issue.
At the end of the day it's up to the applicant to decide what evidence to submit, it's the applicant who needs to satisfy the ECO that they have no adverse travel history.

 

Correct... There is a very good check list for people to follow..

Mandatory docs and optional docs too.

[simoh1490]

Which is here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/549692/Visitor_Supporting_Documents_Guide_-_English_version.pdf

[theoldgit]

In the instructions to Entry Clearance Officers it says:

 

"You must be satisfied that the applicant is a genuine visitor. Look at their personal
circumstances, their stated purpose of visit, their travel history and record of
compliance"

 

As has been pointed out in other documents it indicates you may wish to submit it says, "Previous travel documents/passports, which show previous travel". This would show that the applicant has a history of compliant travel and helps the ECO satisfy themselves of that fact.

 

The instructions go onto say "You must check the applicant’s travel history in their passport (and, for visa applications, listed on the form). A pattern of travel that shows the applicant has previously complied with UK immigration law may indicate the applicant is a genuine visitor. As might travel to other countries, especially the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Schengen countries or Switzerland.
If an applicant has previously failed to comply with another country’s immigration
law, for example if they have been removed from another country, or if they have
been refused entry to another country, this may suggest that an applicant is not a
genuine visitor (depending on the circumstances).
Travel history should not be the only consideration in deciding whether you are
satisfied an applicant is a genuine visitor. In particular there may have been a
change in circumstances since previous travel. You should consider all relevant
information for each application including any social and economic factors and any locally held information.
Where the applicant is a first-time traveller, you will need to rely on other evidence to satisfy you they have a genuine intent to visit"

 

Whilst previous passports are not mandatory, why would you want to leave them out, I full accept that CC's wife did and got Entry Clearance.

[Pat in Pattaya]

20 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

In the instructions to Entry Clearance Officers it says:

 

"You must be satisfied that the applicant is a genuine visitor. Look at their personal
circumstances, their stated purpose of visit, their travel history and record of
compliance"

 

As has been pointed out in other documents it indicates you may wish to submit it says, "Previous travel documents/passports, which show previous travel". This would show that the applicant has a history of compliant travel and helps the ECO satisfy themselves of that fact.

 

The instructions go onto say "You must check the applicant’s travel history in their passport (and, for visa applications, listed on the form). A pattern of travel that shows the applicant has previously complied with UK immigration law may indicate the applicant is a genuine visitor. As might travel to other countries, especially the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Schengen countries or Switzerland.
If an applicant has previously failed to comply with another country’s immigration
law, for example if they have been removed from another country, or if they have
been refused entry to another country, this may suggest that an applicant is not a
genuine visitor (depending on the circumstances).
Travel history should not be the only consideration in deciding whether you are
satisfied an applicant is a genuine visitor. In particular there may have been a
change in circumstances since previous travel. You should consider all relevant
information for each application including any social and economic factors and any locally held information.
Where the applicant is a first-time traveller, you will need to rely on other evidence to satisfy you they have a genuine intent to visit"

 

Whilst previous passports are not mandatory, why would you want to leave them out, I full accept that CC's wife did and got Entry Clearance.

Cheers OG, so would you suggest simply handing in the old passport as a supporting doc? if so, I assume they just return it with the current PP?

[theoldgit]

Cheers OG, so would you suggest simply handing in the old passport as a supporting doc? if so, I assume they just return it with the current PP?

Really it’s up to the individual, my wife always does, but of course now that things have to be scanned maybe she won’t do so in future, it’s four and a half years before she needs to do so again.
The four guys contributing to this thread all have a stable life in Thailand so are more than halfway there in convincing the decision maker of strong ties to Thailand, so maybe they don’t need to provide a history of compliant travel and indeed CC’s wife didn’t include previous travel history in her successful application, but I’d hate it if I advised people not to do so, and it then it became an issue.

[simoh1490]

According to the new rules you can't simply hand in the old passports as PiP suggests, you either copy the contents onto A4 or you don't include them at all, there's no just handing them in.

 

I agree with OG when he hints at there being two sets of applicants and rules, one for those with a travel history already on file, CC and myself for example, and those who don't - the risk-averse applicant with no travel history should probably include a copy of all the blank pages of the applicants passports because those people are unknown entities.  

[Pat in Pattaya]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

According to the new rules you can't simply hand in the old passports as PiP suggests, you either copy the contents onto A4 or you don't include them at all, there's no just handing them in.

 

I agree with OG when he hints at there being two sets of applicants and rules, one for those with a travel history already on file, CC and myself for example, and those who don't - the risk-averse applicant with no travel history should probably include a copy of all the blank pages of the applicants passports because those people are unknown entities.  

Yes, handing in old PP don't seem right. I'll copy old PP page and entry/exit stamp as it's only 2 pages, doubt it will be needed though.

[simoh1490]

On 6/14/2018 at 12:36 PM, cornishcarlos said:

 

Obviously not in all cases. My wife was just issued a visit visa for U.K and we didn't submit any old passports !!

CC: what was the approximate exchange rate HM Gov uses to pay for the visa, they express the fee in USD but then want it converted into GBP and a rate that is apparently derisory? 

 

I'm wondering whether it's better to pay using a (Sterling based) UK credit card or a (Baht based) Thai credit card, I appreciate that whichever is used the sum will be measured in USD and then converted into GBP, quite amazing really! Actually, as an expat, I consider it my duty to just send them my bank account number and say here, help yourself to whatever you think you need, if afterwards, you think you didn't take enough, go back and take some more, don't be shy!

[cornishcarlos]

36 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

CC: what was the approximate exchange rate HM Gov uses to pay for the visa, they express the fee in USD but then want it converted into GBP and a rate that is apparently derisory? 

 

I'm wondering whether it's better to pay using a (Sterling based) UK credit card or a (Baht based) Thai credit card, I appreciate that whichever is used the sum will be measured in USD and then converted into GBP, quite amazing really! Actually, as an expat, I consider it my duty to just send them my bank account number and say here, help yourself to whatever you think you need, if afterwards, you think you didn't take enough, go back and take some more, don't be shy!

 

No idea, sorry... Wife paid with her credit card !!

[Pat in Pattaya]

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

CC: what was the approximate exchange rate HM Gov uses to pay for the visa, they express the fee in USD but then want it converted into GBP and a rate that is apparently derisory? 

 

I'm wondering whether it's better to pay using a (Sterling based) UK credit card or a (Baht based) Thai credit card, I appreciate that whichever is used the sum will be measured in USD and then converted into GBP, quite amazing really! Actually, as an expat, I consider it my duty to just send them my bank account number and say here, help yourself to whatever you think you need, if afterwards, you think you didn't take enough, go back and take some more, don't be shy!

Right, not only are you whinging and having a meltdown like a proper old woman, you are completely wrong!

 

My UK card has just been debited for GBP 98.07 the spot rate using xe.com shows 130 bucks as 97.91 so in what world is that 'derisory'? In fact that is easily the best rate I can ever recall when buying in a foreign currency.

 

So what do you have to say about it all now?

[simoh1490]

16 minutes ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

Right, not only are you whinging and having a meltdown like a proper old woman, you are completely wrong!

 

My UK card has just been debited for GBP 98.07 the spot rate using xe.com shows 130 bucks as 97.91 so in what world is that 'derisory'? In fact that is easily the best rate I can ever recall when buying in a foreign currency.

 

So what do you have to say about it all now?

I'm sorry, you should have told me not to read post number 5.

 

Regardless, noted for future reference that you don't do humour!

[simoh1490]

10 minutes ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

What humour?? Are you seriously saying you was joking or the like?

 

You're a cheap Charlie windbag who has been made to look stupid.!

It was satire, humour for goodness sake, are you having a bad day or what! Two other posters understood and liked it, I'm sorry you didn't.

Edited June 16, 2018 by simoh1490

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

So 2 tv nerds give you a 'like' and that justify's your ridiculous rant? Guess what, I'm one of the few 'real' people on here.There was no humour at all, you meant every word you said. Cheap Charlie drama queen. Move on pal.

My apologies to the mods., I broke my own rule not to be baited any more....I'm all done here.

[theoldgit]

My UK card has just been debited for GBP 98.07 the spot rate using xe.com shows 130 bucks as 97.91 so in what world is that 'derisory'? In fact that is easily the best rate I can ever recall when buying in a foreign currency.

The actual cost of applying for a UK Visa with a six month validity is £93, you were charged £98 using a UK card, you could be forgiven for assuming that you'd be charged the official fee. OK, they only charged you an extra fiver, a tad over 5%, because they choose to charge in USD and then convert back into GBP, so yes quite a bargain really.
Multiply your fiver by the number of applicants, not forgetting that the extra charge for longer term visas is considerably more, and the UKVI are collecting considerably more that the fees set by Parliament - I suppose they've got to find the cash for my pension increase from somewhere.

[simoh1490]

I'm applying for the two-year visa which is around $495. By using my UK Barclaycard I get hit with a foreign transaction fee as well as the exchange rate, if I use my Thai credit card I presumably get hit with both charges also. My original question was which one is more cost effective since I have a choice I think it's worthwhile trying to find out. So if anyone does know, I'll be interested

to hear.

[Pat in Pattaya]

41 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

The actual cost of applying for a UK Visa with a six month validity is £93, you were charged £98 using a UK card, you could be forgiven for assuming that you'd be charged the official fee. OK, they only charged you an extra fiver, a tad over 5%, because they choose to charge in USD and then convert back into GBP, so yes quite a bargain really.
Multiply your fiver by the number of applicants, not forgetting that the extra charge for longer term visas is considerably more, and the UKVI are collecting considerably more that the fees set by Parliament - I suppose they've got to find the cash for my pension increase from somewhere.

Sure. I have no idea what the official fee is in GBP the 'argument' here is that the x-rate was very fair based on $130.00. A lady godiva is the least of my worries.

[simoh1490]

The cost of the visa varies based on the length of time it remains valid as shown below:

 

A Standard Visitor visa costs £93.

• 2 years - £350
• 5 years - £636
• 10 years - £798

So if the exchange rate costs us about £5 per £100 (example above) that's an additional £5, £18, £32 or £40 per visa, based on which one you want. Add to that any foreign currency transaction fees such as Barclaycard uses and that's another 1.5% on top. Whilst most people won't care about an extra £5 on a single entry visa, there will those on a fixed income, pensioners and similar for who those charges are more meaningful. If nothing else, it's only prudent and sensible to understand what is the cheapest way to buy, especially since the only effort involved is asking a simple question. Two years hence we're likely to go for the 10 year visa, by then the cost can be expected to have risen by 10% or more, at close to £1,000 for a tourist visa it's starting to look like serious money.