Building a house and running a guesthouse...

[gerrybcn]

Hello everyone.

A short time ago, I bought a nice and big land in ChiangRai province under the name of my gf.

We went to a lawyer to sign papers (a "private agreement") to secure my investment, and to restrict her to sell without my consent.

We are now building a nice thai house on the land...

Since the land is big, the location is nice, and the house will be beautifull too, we want to run a small guesthouse on the property (just 3 or 4 rooms).

The advantage would be that if we set up a guesthouse business I can get a 1 year visa.

Can anyone give me advise about this?

Is it a good idea to run a small guest house, knowing that the goal is not really to make money?

Is it a good way for me to have a one year visa, and later maybe a resident permit?

Does any of you know a 'serious' law office, in ChiangMai or ChiangRai, who can help us to set up the company?

... Or do you think I should not do it at all, and just lease the property from my gf.

(but then, how do I do for my 1 year visa?)

Thanks a lot for your help.

[fester]

To get a work permit on this venue you must incorporate with 2 million Baht, and employ some 4 Thais. Then it should not be a problem. But be prepared to pay at least 5 million baht in taxes the following 2 yeras in order to keep your work permit going.

You will need a local laywer for this operation, to set it up and apply for all permits, work permit, hotelpermit, alcohol permit, cigarette permit etc etc.

Good luck, but be VERY careful about what you are going into!

[gerrybcn]

Thank you for your answer.

Concerning the investment, I plan to invest more than 2 million baht, so this should not be a problem.

But you scare me a little when you say to be prepared to pay 5 million in taxes in two years... It's a lot of money just for a few rooms. Why is that?

I was thinking more about a "home stay", without bar (then no alcohol), and no restaurant either.

[singa-traz]

Fester, are you refering to one of this condition to get a work permit ?

http://www.thaivisa.com/518.0.html

He could satisfy condition 1 ?

Working for an establishment with a registered capital of at

least 2,000,000 Baht.  One expatriate can be hired for every 2,000,000 Baht of capital but not more than 10 expatriates.

Supported Document:

-         The Certificate of juristic person registration with a fully paid-up capital not less than 2,000,000 Baht and a copy of the list of shareholders (Form Bor-Or-Jor 5).

-         Financial statement with an initial working capital not less than 2,000,000 Baht certified by a certified auditor And   after deduction of debts, loans and other expenses, the establishment must have assets as cash or bank deposit not less than 2,000,000 Baht.

-         Account transaction to proof cash transacting in the bank for business transaction in the amount not less than 2,000,000 Baht.

It is easier to generate 2M THB transaction per year ... than to pay 5M THB tax ...

Can one the Forum expert confirm this ?

[MaiChai]

To be honest, I would not bother setting up a business in your name, as its too much hassel for a foreigner, will cost a lot of money to operate, not to mention the amount of money you will have to put through your business to keep the tax people happy etc. OK, you want to do everything legit, but most of Thais don't, and you will be setting yourself up for a lot of hassel and expense. You might as well do everything through your wifes name, even though you will be there. You won't be making loads of money running a guest house anyway, although its a nice idea. Good luck, and try and not spend too much money on the guest house side of things.

[MaiChai]

Just another point. I don't want to pry into your affairs, but if you are being so generous with the gf, then I assume you would like to live together for a long time? Thus why don't you get married and get your one year visas that way? And doing a visa run every so often, especially if you live near ChiangMai/ChiangRai is not so bad anyway?

So many farang men rush into things with Thai ladies, and yet they would never do the same thing for a girl back home? For some it works out, and for many, it doesn't and they loose a lot of money. Just an observation.

[gerrybcn]

Well... We really do not plan to get married.

With this house, we both realize a dream, and who knows what will happen in the future...

But since we trust eachother since a few years already, I really would like to do it the "right" way.

Having a guesthouse business is the best if we want to stay together and I want to be resident in Thailand after 3 years. Without business no visa, and without visa no residence...

Is it that difficult to run a nice homestay with 3 nice bungalows in the middle of ChiangRai province with a local couple as employee? What kind of tax money are we talking about?

[MaiChai]

Unfortunatly, Thailand is not the place to things by the book; in fact things are rarely done by the book. The Thai authorities are trying to clamp down on foreigners setting up a business as a mechanism to hold property/obtain work visas/obtain non imm visas, etc. Thus foreign owned companies are often under scrutiny, and the Thais take the attitude that if its a real business, then there will be a lot of money passing through the company, and thus lots of tax, etc. In fact this is the sort of foreign owned company they want to encourage, not small companies of convenience. I'm not a lawyer, but I understand what they are trying to do. The point I am trying to make is that it will cost you a lot more money to run a business like this, much more than you will earn from running a guesthouse. Thus, save yourself the money and grief and do things through your gfs name. Start small, build things up, and as the business starts to take off, then consider legitimising it.

[gerrybcn]

That's what we do now, through the agreement we did with a lawyer. But then, how do I do to get a visa if we don't want to get married? As a European I have the right to stay only one month without visa. And even someone from the Thai ambassy told me to put the house on a company name.

And to be honest with you, I like this idea of a small confortable guesthouse a lot, since I could stay in touch with my own culture through my foreign guests...

[Bill2]

One thing I noticed here is the desire to get a  residency visa after 3 years of a non-immigrant visa - hence the long chain of events.... But am I not right in thinking that even witha  3 year uninterrupted stay this gentleman is unlikely to be given a resident's visa unless he meets certain criteria: eg retiring to the Kingdom with income coming in from overseas; married to a Thai lady and having children; investing (is it?) Baht 10 m from outside; an expert approved by the thai Government.....

if the ultimate objective is for residence - then you might like to look into this as well now to save subsequent duisappointment. Being resident in the Kingdom on a non-immigrant visa uninterrupted for 3 years does not necessarily entitle you to apply for residence I beleive (but feel free to correct me if things have changed recently).  It might even persuade you to get married!  

Cheers

::

[MaiChai]

gerrybcn, you can get multiple tourist visas from abroad. These allow you a two month stay, which can be extended by a further month at immigration in Chiang Mai, Bangkok, etc. If you get 4 tourist visas in your passport in one go, this will give you a year stay in TL (exit and entering every 90 days).

Rather than getting married, you could always have a child via your gf. This will allow you to get 1 year non imm 'O' visas. Think of the joy of having children and bring them up in TL! This I really enjoy (and they drive me nuts too!).

[A1ia5]

Bill2, everyone

One of the criteria mentioned above for getting a visa is by being an expert approved by the Thai government - do you know where I could get more details on this or do you have some details that you could share ?

Thanks

[keestha]

Just a few observations: an alternative to establishing a company could be forming a partnership limited with your girlfriend, a work permit can also be based on a partnership limited.  As far as a residence permit is concerned, probably just forget it. It is very, very difficult to get, one of the requirements is that you have to be able to speak, read and write Thai fluently. Also if my knowledge is still up to date, issuing of residence permits is bound to a quota system of 100 permits per nationality per year. No way you automatically get it after you have had 3 one year visas in a row. By the way many work permit holders and also foreigners being in the process of applying for a work permit are staying in Thailand on one year multiple entry non immigrant B (business) visas, which give you the right to go to Thailand as often as you want for maximally 90 days for as long as the visa is valid. Also the last day of validity you can still make a new 90 days entry, so that altogether you can stay 15 months, but every 90 days you will have to make a trip to Myanmar (Birma) and back to get yourself a new entry stamp. This type of visa is easier to get than a regular one year visa.

[gerrybcn]

Thank you for your information.

We found a good law office in ChiangMai where I will go in two weeks.

Concerning the residency you give me hope; I already speak and read thai. And since I plan to invest quite a lot of money in the property, I think I will reach the 10 million bath investment too (one of the requirements for the residency).

I maybe never want to be permanent resident in Thailand, but if I want it in the future I prefer everything to be ready (without being married).

[tom123]

Gerry,

I just want to give you a word of advice. If you are really investing such an amount in Thailand. Don't, yes, DON'T put it in your girlfriend's name. So many farangs get ######ed over and as the other guy said as well. You wouldn't do so fast with a girl back home and, ESSPECIALLY, you don't want to do that in a foreign land. The books and magazines a full of true tales from foreigners have been ######ed over by Thais. The play the game very well. She may love you today or, sorry to say that, pretend to love you. Tomorrow, the house is ready built and kiss the farang good-bye as her family suddenly crawl down from the trees and move in on you.

BE CAREFUL PLEASE

I have lived here for 8 years. I have never been ######ed over as I know the move before they do it. I can speak and understand Thai very well. I recently left Thailand as I am tired of this bullshit. Now I am living in Cebu in the Philippines and the people here have a total different attitude.

Anyway, good luck in your endavours

[gerrybcn]

Thanks again for this advise. But don't worry, I am not blind at all. This is why I will never mary any girl anywhere )

I know how life can be sometimes, and other interests oblige me to find another solution to live in Thailand.

It is less risky to secure everything with lawyers, and share what I want to share (and I do want to share). And if in the future we don't love eachother anymore, at least we tried, had fun, and realized a nice little dream with this house. To close this subject, you maybe should know that we met eachother in Europe, and she is from a family that really 'does not need help'...

Thank you everyone for your advises.

[MaiChai]

Can I guess that your an American or Canadian gerrybcn? While you can safely put your trust in lawyers in the US, the law is less well defined in Thailand and more easily abused by those in power. Thais have the attitude that Thailand is for Thais and everyone else is here because the Thais tolerate it and because it benefits them. You may find that a Thai judge also takes this point of view and will interpret the law in the way he/she feels fit. Thus, although you may think you are doing the right thing using lawyers, when it comes to the crunch, you may still loose out.

Bill2 offers good advice, and the money you are intending to invest is a large amount of money for TL. You should be able to build a house from 700,000 baht upwards; a million would be typical. 10 million baht would be quite an impressive building, and may attract all the wrong type of people in society (which would lead to all sorts of problems in the future). Ultimatly an investment is not an investment unless you have full control over it. The Thai legal system makes it almost impossible for foreigners to own anything here. Hang on to your money and be more questioning about how it is going to be spent.

We farangs should stick together, and I would really hate to hear about another farang being shafted by a Thai.

[MaiChai]

Sorry, I ment tom123 instead of bill2  

[tom123]

MaiChai, you are abosulutely right here, We farangs have to stick together becasue there is no whatsoever sticktogether kind of thing with Thais. You can be here for 10 years. Meeting a truly, no, take it again here, TRULY friend who will be on your farang side just never exists. Don't stumble over my words but get it once right, period.

I am now living in Cebu in a nice beach house away from that bullshit. The Filipinos and esspecially the Filipinas are much nice as there is not culture barrier since they have the absolute western thinking.

Any questions about Thailand can alsways be directed to me. I am an veteran of Thailand and no my way around in all kinds of things. Listen to MaiChai and the other guys out there

[mrvietnam2001]

""Thais have the attitude that Thailand is for Thais and everyone else is here because the Thais tolerate it and because it benefits them.""

Oh I absolutely agree with that statement 110%. I found the opposite in Vietnam which is rather strange don't you think? America bombed the crap out of those people for a long time and the flip side is America is Thailands biggest trading partner. So you would think the reverse wouold be the case, but it is not.

Thailand would be REALLY great if the Thai's were sent over to Vietnam to see how they can handle that environment, and the Vietnamese in Thailand to get a break.

I lived in Samui and the Thai's were about as lazy and arrogant as I've seen although a friend of mine whose been in SE Asia since 1966 told me the laotians make the Thai's look ambitious. I don't know, but I DID live in Vietnam for 22 months and the difference is night and day. My thoughts are to go back.......and it might be TL ( might), but I will definitely be looking to yank strings ahead of time and I think that's possible.

If not then the Viets get the investment vote.

Regards

Mr Vietnam

"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty."

-- John Adams

[tom123]

That's about it. What Mr. Vietnam experienced in Vietnam is what I am experiencing in the Philippines. The people are a lot friendlier and the attitude towards foreigners just great, there is no barrier. A Filipino guy approaches you in a pub and would say “ hey man look at this babe over there…” In Thailand a guy would not even approach you, except he is gay.

My recommendation, leave this unfriendly and part of your life behind and move on to better parts

[mrvietnam2001]

Tom, where in the PI are you?

Mr Vietnam

[tom123]

Mr. Vietnam, I am living and Cebu and Manila likewise, and you?

[mrvietnam2001]

Hi Tom,

I'm back in Florida after a couple years in Vietnam and South Thailand ( Koh Samui). My wife and I finished with our K-1 visa and I am now back on the treadmill in the States.

Howz cebu? I saw property selling for as little as 2 bucks a sq mtr on a beach over there with maybe the costs to bring in elec and water only a few grand. Don't want to publish the name of the island yet as I'm still researching it. Our plan is for me to go like crazy again in my coin business while my wife works on our Vietnamese penpal website and after we find an honest and knowledgable web person....to replicate the sites and also bring in a few other countries. Hopefull we'll have enough coming in for us to have the choice on where we want to be at that point.

How bout you? How long you been in cebu?

Regards

Mr Vietnam

[tom123]

Hello Mr. Vietnam,

that sounds like you are having a nice life too. I am in the Cebu for about two months right now.

So far I cansay I like it very much here. Moreover I have beento the Philippines several times before and I can see that the attitude towards foreigners is completely diferent here. There is no "You are the farang and I am Thai"bullshit. People treat everyone equal here and that's what I just like, being just a normal person among others

I kissed Thailand good-bye and perhaps will never stay there again

Perhaps I will see you herein Cebu someday!?

[mrvietnam2001]

Hi Tom,

It's possible. Thailand is about to go thru a continuing economic scenario that will most likely produce a change in attitude....but if not then I'm in agreement with you 100%.

My friends have all been to Cebu ( visited not lived) as well as Vnam. I've lived in Vnam, Thailand and have visited several others. I'm planning on visiting the PI to check it out. Next year.

Regards

Mr Vietnam

 

[sevinnow]

Fester, you quoted in a reply "be prepared to pay 5 million baht in taxes over two years to keep your work permit going?

Tell me how on earth do you arrive at such a huge amount?

Sev

:cool: