Trump tells Kim a 'terrific relationship' beckons as summit begins

[RickBradford]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Many of them located in Macedonia.

And immeasurably more located in London, New York, LA, Sydney and cities in-between.

 

It's a lesson the Left has to learn - just because you don't like an opinion, that doesn't make it invalid.

[geriatrickid]

5 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

No other President has managed a meeting with the leader of North Korea let alone a commitment to denuclearize.  It is a whole lot better than 8 years of being afraid and watching atomic tests and missiles fly over Japan.  You don't think trying to make the world safer is a good idea?

managed a meeting? How about chose not to  legitimize a diabolical  cruel despotic regime?

[ravip]

15 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

What? That he just gave credibility to a despot and has provided a means for Russia and China to loosen sanctions?

Trump has gotten nothing from this except  given  the North Korean regime  legitimacy. I agree with the  diplomats and the former national security  personnel going back to Reagan & Bush the elder: This was a bad decision.

This was a scripted event all done to manipulate  the public image of two  awful people.

Well I guess he should have done what they did to Gaddafi, Saddam etc to make you and your likes happy? Weren't they 'staged' according to your book?

 

But, I think Trump is more intelligent.

Edited June 12, 2018 by ravip

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post and the replies have been removed. 

[geriatrickid]

1 minute ago, ravip said:

Well I guess he should have done what they did to Gaddafi, Saddam etc to make you and your likes happy?

But, I think Trump is more intelligent.

The USA could not have done anything for the simple reason that NK border Russia and China and both countries would have blocked a US attack. That is why no one did anything.  North Korea is an evil  place with death camps, slave labour, starvation torture etc. This has not changed and will not change because Trump shook hands with Kim. All that has been achieved is that Russia and China can now lift their sanctions. Trump has given them the green light because of this stupid  PR  circus.  You are voicing the same empty platitudes that followed Neville Chamberlain's "Peace in Our Time" error. The world was treated to a wave of support for the gentle, compassionate lovely, charming Adolf. And then the world got a wake up call. The world had the courageous Churchill and the  wily FDR to protect it from stupid people back then. Unfortunately, today we have no one.

[RickBradford]

8 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

managed a meeting? How about chose not to  legitimize a diabolical  cruel despotic regime?

Well, give us your solution.

 

What do you do, in general terms, with an adversary with whom you disagree about almost everything? Do you attempt to sit down with them and talk, or do the opposite and ostracize them? Which approach do you think is more likely to quickly lead to violence?

[ravip]

2 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

The USA could not have done anything for the simple reason that NK border Russia and China and both countries would have blocked a US attack. That is why no one did anything.  North Korea is an evil  place with death camps, slave labour, starvation torture etc. This has not changed and will not change because Trump shook hands with Kim. All that has been achieved is that Russia and China can now lift their sanctions. Trump has given them the green light because of this stupid  PR  circus.  You are voicing the same empty platitudes that followed Neville Chamberlain's "Peace in Our Time" error. The world was treated to a wave of support for the gentle, compassionate lovely, charming Adolf. And then the world got a wake up call. The world had the courageous Churchill and the  wily FDR to protect it from stupid people back then. Unfortunately, today we have no one.

At this time and age, each has his/her own liberty to wallow in one's own opinion.

[InMyShadow]

Guys I can see one very massive downside in about 3 years. 

 

10 new inbound flights a day to Pattaya 

[sanemax]

27 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

What? That he just gave credibility to a despot and has provided a means for Russia and China to loosen sanctions?

Trump has gotten nothing from this except  given  the North Korean regime  legitimacy.

Now that NK have vowed to give up their quest for nuclear weapons , there is now no need for NK to face sanctions .

   Once it has been confirmed that NK have have given up their quest for nukes, all sanctions can be lifted .

  Trump has got NK to give up their quest for nukes and that is ALL that he wanted

[Opl]

11 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Now that NK have vowed to give up their quest for nuclear weapons , there is now no need for NK to face sanctions .

   Once it has been confirmed that NK have have given up their quest for nukes, all sanctions can be lifted .

  Trump has got NK to give up their quest for nukes and that is ALL that he wanted

Kim Jong-un left Singapore with the feeling of the mission accomplished: he obtained the recognition of the United States without having given a lot for the moment.
For Iran, this can be seen as an invitation to acquire the atomic bomb as soon as possible, in order to negotiate directly with the US. Who's next?

 

 

[lannarebirth]

7 hours ago, Morch said:

 

You're simply making stuff up. This did not happen, but may happen. In time.

There was no World War averted, and tensions between some Asian countries (notably, China) didn't go anywhere.

 

I'll be looking for Japan's reaction to all this. I think they have the most to lose if a bad bargain is being struck. South Koreans seem a little too emotionally invested to give a clear take on the situation.

[lannarebirth]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It's worth noting that there is wide consensus that Kim did much better than "trump" in this opening gambit of a so called deal. People in the know already get that "trump" is a great negotiator in his mind only and also the people he has conned saying that he is over and over again. Not in reality. 

Arguably, "trump" came into this with the stronger, better hand but still Kim came out ahead. Who's surprised? Not many that have been paying attention to the real "trump" vs. the fantasy cooked up by his propaganda. 

Before people say I'm only about dissing "trump" (he totally deserves it most of the time so no apologies) I've already said it's possible that giving this PR gift to Kim might be just the thing (over time) to actually move things forward. We don't know yet either way. 

 

The US only had the stronger hand if our threat of military force was credible. Sure, we have the sanctions, but those were going to start breaking down over time as China doesn't follow international law. So then we'd have to pivot and sanction China, which of course everyone would then be critical of.

[lannarebirth]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I heard that.

Nothing in the signed agreement that is binding at this point.

I didn't make up his bragging about saving 30 or 40 millions people.
Stop lying.

The "funniest" part of the conference for me was when someone asked about timing with Kim softening on the hundreds of thousands of people in his gulags and how that is tied to the agreement and "trump" conveniently chose to completely ignore the question and answer it as IF the person asked about the nukes issue which "trump" had already answered. Which made it clear "trump" isn't going to push Kim on human rights at all! Which maybe some people think is defensible but "trump" won't openly admit that. Proof in that conference. 

 

I wish the US WOULD push harder on human rights abuses. Starting with China who has over a million "thought criminals" in prison.

[lannarebirth]

3 hours ago, opalred said:

his realty show goes on

anyone with half a brain would understand

will china the world number one power let the usa near there back door 

would you let a mad dog in your back  gate/? 

 

How is China the world number one power?  GDP? Nope. Militarily? Nope. Innovation? Nope. Education? Nope. You mean population?

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Rarebear said:

I guess you have forgotten about our ally Stalin whom we provided with billions in war aid to stop Germany in WWII who makes Kim look like a Sunday School teacher and Stalin was praised, feted and almost worshiped because he was on our side.  But.  Gulags and starvation and mass execution is OK for Russia when our ally but not Kim?  

It was an alliance that lasted exactly as long as did American participation in WW2. The more pertinent question is did Stalin genuinely change his ways? Seems extremely unlikely Kim will.

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, InMyShadow said:

Guys I can see one very massive downside in about 3 years. 

 

10 new inbound flights a day to Pattaya 

 

That will be offset by the low budget farang that has emigrated to Pyongyang.

[CGW]

2 hours ago, Opl said:

Kim Jong-un left Singapore with the feeling of the mission accomplished: he obtained the recognition of the United States without having given a lot for the moment.
For Iran, this can be seen as an invitation to acquire the atomic bomb as soon as possible, in order to negotiate directly with the US. Who's next?

Israel? they don't have them yet do they 555, yet the "west" chose's to ignore the fact.

I'm sure there are many - if they survived "the liberation" in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan etc that were wishing they had hindsight to have had some negotiating power, so nuke up chaps unless you want your people to be slaughtered!

Edited June 12, 2018 by CGW

[sanemax]

16 minutes ago, CGW said:

Israel? they don't have them yet do they 555, yet the "west" chose's to ignore the fact.

I'm sure there are many - if they survived "the liberation" in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan etc that were wishing they had hindsight to have had some negotiating power, so nuke up chaps unless you want your people to be slaughtered!

Or you could list the other 200 Countries in the World that doesnt have nukes which havent been attacked by the USA

[candide]

3 hours ago, Rarebear said:

No other President has managed a meeting with the leader of North Korea let alone a commitment to denuclearize.  It is a whole lot better than 8 years of being afraid and watching atomic tests and missiles fly over Japan.  You don't think trying to make the world safer is a good idea?

NK does not commit more (if not less) than it did before, I.e. in 1993 or 2005.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron

Edited June 12, 2018 by candide

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, candide said:

NK does not commit more (if not less) than it did before, I.e. in 1993 or 2005.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron

Probably less.

But the dramatic meeting is new.

That was mostly a gift to Kim, but things on the ground are different, the unusual combination of the two bizarre leaders, the current sophistication of the NK nuclear program and the crippling sanctions. So it's not fair to assume it will be exactly the same as the past because the conditions and personalities are different. So there is rational room at this point both for hope and for skepticism. 

I don't think it's right for "trump" lovers to declare total success yet (because it's nothing even close) but I also don't think that "trump" opponents should think it isn't possible for this to lead to positive results just because it's from "trump." Too early to know either way. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Jingthing

[candide]

11 hours ago, sanemax said:

Now that NK have vowed to give up their quest for nuclear weapons , there is now no need for NK to face sanctions .

   Once it has been confirmed that NK have have given up their quest for nukes, all sanctions can be lifted .

  Trump has got NK to give up their quest for nukes and that is ALL that he wanted

Ahem. They already have nukes and have apparently completed their program.

[opalred]

Putin and china have been pushing for years to have usa troops removed from south Korea

trump says will remove now/ with out telling congress ?  

[Rarebear]

4 minutes ago, candide said:

Ahem. They already have nukes and have apparently completed their program.

I don't think they have little ones that can be put on a missile or if they do not many. 

[Rarebear]

1 minute ago, opalred said:

Putin and china have been pushing for years to have usa troops removed from south Korea

trump says will remove now/ with out telling congress ?  

Why would he tell congress?  He is the commander and chief. 

[lannarebirth]

7 minutes ago, opalred said:

Putin and china have been pushing for years to have usa troops removed from south Korea

trump says will remove now/ with out telling congress ?  

Can you give a link to Trump saying he remove US troops now from South Korea? I don't think he or anyone else has said that.

[Rarebear]

4 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Can you give a link to Trump saying he remove US troops now from South Korea? I don't think he or anyone else has said that.

President Trump said Friday that he will not offer to remove U.S. troops from South Korea or reduce their presence there during his summit with North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un. But Trump left open the possibility of doing so in the future

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, Rarebear said:

President Trump said Friday that he will not offer to remove U.S. troops from South Korea or reduce their presence there during his summit with North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un. But Trump left open the possibility of doing so in the future

Right.  So the post I responded to was in error. That's what I thought.

[Rarebear]

1 minute ago, lannarebirth said:

Right.  So the post I responded to was in error. That's what I thought.

As far as I can see I think you are correct.  Trump has been talking about saving money in Korea for a long time and getting South Korea to pay more for defense. 

[lannarebirth]

Just now, Rarebear said:

As far as I can see I think you are correct.  Trump has been talking about saving money in Korea for a long time and getting South Korea to pay more for defense. 

 

Right. I think he's working more than one angle here. Time for SK and Japan to step up.

[CGW]

9 hours ago, sanemax said:

Or you could list the other 200 Countries in the World that doesnt have nukes which havent been attacked by the USA

You mean the ones that already have central banks & give full access to the corporations that run the world? (not the USA, America is only designated Policeman as they are the only country that could afford to be, after the UK passed the rein due to lack of taxpayers!) ?