Trump says expects 'signing' after 'very good' talks with Kim

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I am not a mind reader either , although I am a reader of bits of paper with agreements written on them and the intentions are clearly written there 

North Korean has been consistently issued statements calling for denuclearization for many, many years. What was their intention behind that? Did they genuinely want denuclearization of the Korean peninsula? Or did they just want it for the southern portion. Do they genuinely want to denuclearize now? Is that their intention? And you believe it because it's written down? And what do the North Koreans mean by denuclearization? They have yet to be pinned down on that one.

Edited June 12, 2018 by bristolboy

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

North Korean has been consistently issued statements calling for denuclearization for many, many years. What was their intention behind that? Did they genuinely want denuclearization of the Korean peninsula? Or did they just want it for the southern portion. Do they genuinely want to denuclearize now? Is that their intention? And you believe it because it's written down? And what do the North Koreans mean by denuclearization? They have yet to be pinned down on that one.

I have no idea what the previous NK leaders wanted , that was in a different era with East/West hostilities .

   I do believe that now NK wants to come "in from the cold" , to join the world community , normalise relations with other Countries .

  I do believe that this is the start of a new era , like the Berlin wall coming down .

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

I have no idea what the previous NK leaders wanted , that was in a different era with East/West hostilities .

   I do believe that now NK wants to come "in from the cold" , to join the world community , normalise relations with other Countries .

  I do believe that this is the start of a new era , like the Berlin wall coming down .

So it's a matter of your belief. And you believe that Kim is sincere in his desire. But you don't know that and just because some vague if hopeful words are written down, is no proof of the intentions of anyone.

And your history is way off.  2 denuclearization agreements were reached after the Cold War ended.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, sanemax said:

   I do believe that now NK wants to come "in from the cold" , to join the world community , normalise relations with other Countries .

 

 

So when Kim had his half-brother assassinated at an airport in Malaysia last year using a VX nerve agent, in your view, that was just him cleaning up some misc. family business before he turned over a new leaf??? Really....

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

North Korean has been consistently issued statements calling for denuclearization for many, many years. What was their intention behind that? Did they genuinely want denuclearization of the Korean peninsula? Or did they just want it for the southern portion. Do they genuinely want to denuclearize now? Is that their intention? And you believe it because it's written down? And what do the North Koreans mean by denuclearization? They have yet to be pinned down on that one.

 

From what I've read from NK observers/analysts, when NORTH KOREA talks about de-nuclearization of the Korean peninsula, what they've historically meant with that language is having the U.S. remove its nuclear deterrent protections for South Korea.

 

Whether NK in using that term this week now suddenly means and understands that to mean removing THEIR OWN nukes, only the future history is going to tell.  They've had and missed on two strikes before. If they fail to honor this one, it ought to be 3 strikes and they're out.

 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

So it's a matter of your belief. And you believe that Kim is sincere in his desire. But you don't know that and just because some vague if hopeful words are written down, is no proof of the intentions of anyone.

And your history is way off.  2 denuclearization agreements were reached after the Cold War ended.

Yes, I believe that Kim is sincere .

Although the cold war may have ended before the previous agreements were signed , there were still hostilities between NK and USA , it could even be said that the cold war/hostilities between NK and the USA finally finished today .

   The world cold war had finished , although hostilities between the USA and NK were still there

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Yes, I believe that Kim is sincere .

Although the cold war may have ended before the previous agreements were signed , there were still hostilities between NK and USA , it could even be said that the cold war/hostilities between NK and the USA finally finished today .

   The world cold war had finished , although hostilities between the USA and NK were still there

Do you believe that Kim is a psychopath? A sociopath? Or just a guy who made some wrong choices which he now regrets?

[bristolboy]

Here's something about Kim from Anne Applebaum:

"The wisdom of his nuclear policy has been confirmed: His tiny, poor, often hungry country, where hundreds of thousands have perished in concentration camps that differ little from those built by Stalin, has been treated as the equal of the United States of America. If Kim hadn’t continued the missile program, if he hadn’t enhanced his missile delivery capability, President Trump would not be there."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/06/12/a-fantastic-meeting-for-trump-and-kim/?utm_term=.a1c401d0c03c

[sanemax]

Just now, bristolboy said:

Do you believe that Kim is a psychopath? A sociopath? Or just a guy who made some wrong choices which he now regrets?

I am in no position to make any diagnoses of him , a professional would have to make that analysis .

  Its hard to make any judgement , because so little is known about him .

Although , he probably does have a few mental conditions .

I do feel that he now knows that hes been going in the wrong direction with NK and that he wants to reverse that

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

If Kim hadn’t continued the missile program, if he hadn’t enhanced his missile delivery capability, President Trump would not be there."

Yes, but Kim DID continue with his missile program and Trump took measures to get him to stop .  

  Trump met Kim to get him to give up his nuclear program: No need to state the obvious

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

An analysis by Nicholas Kristof in the New York Times:

 

Trump Was Outfoxed in Singapore

 

Quote

 

Trump made a huge concession — the suspension of military exercises with South Korea. That’s on top of the broader concession of the summit meeting itself, security guarantees he gave North Korea and the legitimacy that the summit provides his counterpart, Kim Jong-un.
 

Within North Korea, the “very special bond” that Trump claimed to have formed with Kim will be portrayed this way: Kim forced the American president, through his nuclear and missile tests, to accept North Korea as a nuclear equal, to provide security guarantees to North Korea, and to cancel war games with South Korea that the North has protested for decades.
 

In exchange for these concessions, Trump seems to have won astonishingly little. In a joint statement, Kim merely “reaffirmed” the same commitment to denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula that North Korea has repeatedly made since 1992.

 

 

...all the while aggressively pursuing and implementing its own nuclear weapons program that's supposedly almost capable now of striking the U.S.  That's a strange concept for denuclearizing the Korean peninsula.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/opinion/trump-kim-summit-north-korea.html

Edited June 12, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[InMyShadow]

26 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

So when Kim had his half-brother assassinated at an airport in Malaysia last year using a VX nerve agent, in your view, that was just him cleaning up some misc. family business before he turned over a new leaf??? Really....

 

 

OMG how nieve are you? 

 

Who gives a rats about his junky half brother? 

Hilleriouse ?

 

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

OMG how nieve are you? 

 

Who gives a rats about his junky half brother? 

Hilleriouse ?

 

What kind of leader would give enough of a rat's ass to have his junkie half brother assassinated? A paranoid one.. And he's going to give up his nuclear weapons in exchange for promises from Donald Trump? A guy whose career is littered with broken promises.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, bristolboy said:

What kind of leader would give enough of a rat's ass to have his junkie half brother assassinated? A paranoid one.. And he's going to give up his nuclear weapons in exchange for promises from Donald Trump? A guy whose career is littered with broken promises.

 

Thanks for saving me from having to answer the prior poster's failure to comprehend the obvious.

 

A man (dictator) who's planning to turn over a new leaf and bring his country into the world of nations doesn't use VX nerve agent to assassinate his half-brother in a foreign country during the same period. Nor can a person who would order such an assassination likely be trusted to keep his promises.

 

 

 

[InMyShadow]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

What kind of leader would give enough of a rat's ass to have his junkie half brother assassinated? A paranoid one.. And he's going to give up his nuclear weapons in exchange for promises from Donald Trump? A guy whose career is littered with broken promises.

Nonsense. Killing family members Has been a sport amongst kings and queens along with many modern Era dictators. 

 

Did it stop progress to first world? USA Is the biggest mass killer on the planet. 

 

Im starting think that trump haters on this thread are just plain imbiciles 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Thanks for saving me from having to answer the prior poster's failure to comprehend the obvious.

A man (dictator) who's planning to turn over a new leaf and bring his country into the world of nations doesn't use VX nerve agent to assassinate his half-brother in a foreign country during the same period. Nor can a person who would order such an assassination likely be trusted to keep his promises.

Two different issues : Family conflict and the direction of a Country that you lead .

Kim will still have internal conflicts with his adversaries , that doesnt mean that he still wants conflict with the USA .

    The two situations are not connected

[bristolboy]

9 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Two different issues : Family conflict and the direction of a Country that you lead .

Kim will still have internal conflicts with his adversaries , that doesnt mean that he still wants conflict with the USA .

    The two situations are not connected

Really? So he killed his brother not because of trust issues? And do you think his intelligence people are going to tell him that Donald Trump is someone who can be trusted? Not that you would need an intelligence service to help you discern that.

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Another irony is that if "trump" got something as good as the Iran deal with NK (this first step is like 1 percent of that at this point) it would indeed be a major accomplishment. But he irrationally TRASHED that.

Why? Obama's name. 

No, it isn't because of Obama's name. It's because Iran is involving itself in military conflicts regionally and the US is partnered with the Saudis who are the sworn enemies of Iran as they battle for regional hegemony. I'm not saying it's right. I'd rather we were backing Iran minus the ayatollahs, but that's not the way it is.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Really? So he killed his brother not because of trust issues? And do you think his intelligence people are going to tell him that Donald Trump is someone who can be trusted? Not that you would need an intelligence service to help you discern that.

I have no idea why his Brother got killed .

Do you know why he got killed ?

If you do , please tell me .

I dont know what Kims intelligence people will tell him .

Do you know that they are going to tell him ?

Will Kim trust Donald .

Yes, I believe that he will .

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I have no idea why his Brother got killed .

Do you know why he got killed ?

If you do , please tell me .

I dont know what Kims intelligence people will tell him .

Do you know that they are going to tell him ?

Will Kim trust Donald .

Yes, I believe that he will .

I'm sure you do. But why would anybody who isn't a fanboy trust Trump? What in his career would inspire that kind of trust? Who in their right mind would place their life in Donald Trump's hands? 

Edited June 12, 2018 by bristolboy

[Opl]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I have no idea why his Brother got killed .

Do you know why he got killed ?

If you do , please tell me .

I dont know what Kims intelligence people will tell him .

Do you know that they are going to tell him ?

Will Kim trust Donald .

Yes, I believe that he will .

 

Do you really think someone who took his own portable toilet to Singapore trusts Trump?  

[The manic]

If he succeeds the lefties will.hate it. If America is successful they will hate it When Britain survives the EU the lefties will.hate. The politics of ideogically driven hate, spite and envy underpinned by cultural marxist Leninism 

[lannarebirth]

52 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

An analysis by Nicholas Kristof in the New York Times:

 

Trump Was Outfoxed in Singapore

 

 

...all the while aggressively pursuing and implementing its own nuclear weapons program that's supposedly almost capable now of striking the U.S.  That's a strange concept for denuclearizing the Korean peninsula.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/opinion/trump-kim-summit-north-korea.html

 

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

Did you notice that during the lead up to this meeting when the US and SK held their military exercises the critics were saying it was mad to continue the exercises if one expected to be able to pursue peace. Now that a summit has been held and there is at least lip service being paid from both parties to pursue peace and disarmament, the same people are saying it is mad to suspend the military exercises. Ironic, no?

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Opl said:

 

Do you really think someone who took his own portable toilet to Singapore trusts Trump?  

The reason for that is because Kim didnt want his turds to be analysed by anyone , like the turds from NK soldiers were analysed and the results published in the media by South Korea

   

[sanemax]

10 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

.all the while aggressively pursuing and implementing its own nuclear weapons program that's supposedly almost capable now of striking the U.S.  That's a strange concept for denuclearizing the Korean peninsula.

NK have stated that they have stopped developing and  testing nukes

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, sanemax said:

NK have stated that they have stopped developing and  testing nukes

 

I've never seen NK make such a statement, and even if they had, what in the world reason would anyone have to believe them, considering their decades long pattern of claiming to support denuclearization all the while forging ahead with a massive nuclear weapon initiative.

 

They have apparently stopped rocket and nuclear weapon tests lately... whether they've stopped development of their nuclear program, who could know? There's zero international inspection or verification of anything going on inside NK. And nothing in Trump's summit made any movement in that area.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

17 minutes ago, sanemax said:

NK have stated that they have stopped developing and  testing nukes

 

You're quoting something I wrote, not Lannarebirth.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

44 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

Did you notice that during the lead up to this meeting when the US and SK held their military exercises the critics were saying it was mad to continue the exercises if one expected to be able to pursue peace. Now that a summit has been held and there is at least lip service being paid from both parties to pursue peace and disarmament, the same people are saying it is mad to suspend the military exercises. Ironic, no?

 

I said earlier above, I don't know if giving up joint military exercises with the South is a good or bad concession. I also noted that apparently Trump didn't bother to consult or inform SK on that point before he offered it to the North, which ought to be a bit disturbing to U.S. allies.

 

But the main point is, if the U.S. is going to give up something concrete and specific (the military exercises) that the North and China have long wanted, what did the U.S. get in return that's concrete and specific?  Nothing much AFAICT. Promises, words, pledges, but little to nothing in the way of concrete commitments by the North. No timelines, no deadlines, just an agreement to talk more.

 

It's likely going to come down to one of two things, say five years down the road -- either NK will have dismantled its nuclear weapons program, that will have been verified by the international community, and Trump will be hailed as a hero OR, NK will still have nuclear weapons threatening the U.S., and the world will realize that Trump got played, and played badly.

 

Considering NK's track record, which is the more likely scenario five years from now?

 

Recall what Ronald Reagan once famously said, quoting a Russian proverb, during his nuclear talks with the Russians -- "trust but verify".

Edited June 12, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Scott]

Troll post removed.  

 

[sanemax]

12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But the main point is, if the U.S. is going to give up something concrete and specific (the military exercises) that the North and China have long wanted, what did the U.S. get in return that's concrete and specific?  Nothing much AFAICT. Promises, words, pledges, but little to nothing in the way of concrete commitments by the North. No timelines, no deadlines, just an agreement to talk more.

The U.S also stated that the joint US/SK military exercises can be resumed at short notice , so the USA are not giving up something concrete , they have just been suspended and that suspension can be revoked at anytime at short notice .

   North Korea have made a peace pledge .

If that peace pledge is adhered too , then there will no need for anymore joint USA/SK military exercises , because the sole purpose for the exercises was to prepare for war with NK .

   NK have committed to no more rocket testing , if they do test more rockets , US/SK military exercises will resume .

North Korea : No more rocket testing 

USA : No more military exercises