Retirement visa without any seasoned money in a bank,

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, stephenterry said:

 

The same scenario could also apply to the marriage extension totalling B400k, but that needs checking

Combination method is only permitted for retirement extension.

[Suradit69]

3 hours ago, dallen52 said:

But who is the more dodgy?

 

The person who uses a agent?

 

The agent who charges 25k plus for providing the 800k for around one hour in your bank account?

 

Or the immigration officers who take a slice and make it all happening. 

With official stamps and signatures.?

All three are dodgy. Under ideal circumstances they could share the same cell.

[notamember]

4 hours ago, stephenterry said:

Unless the law has changed (or immigration don't know their own rules), a mixture of bank deposit amount and income meeting the B800k for retirement needs no seasoning. So, for example, an income letter from the Embassy stating a monthly income of  B30k (B360k per annum) plus a bank deposit (that could have been made that day) of B440K, totalling B800k is sufficient. Obviously the income and deposit amounts could vary, but added together equals, or exceeds the requirement.

 

The same scenario could also apply to the marriage extension totalling B400k, but that needs checking.

marriage its either money or pension, no combo

[notamember]

2 hours ago, Phuket Man said:

Yes , but the one who cops it when the brown stuff hits the fan is the applicant.

 

never happened yet

[notamember]

4 hours ago, anchadian said:

Totally correct, follow the rules, otherwise all other methods to secure a retirement extension is illegal.

 

 

 

no its not, how many times do you have to be told?, even the mods have said so

[notamember]

4 hours ago, anchadian said:

Totally correct, follow the rules, otherwise all other methods to secure a retirement extension is illegal.

 

 

 

not its not, even the mods have said so

 

[notamember]

3 hours ago, dallen52 said:

But who is the more dodgy?

 

The person who uses a agent?

 

The agent who charges 25k plus for providing the 800k for around one hour in your bank account?

 

Or the immigration officers who take a slice and make it all happening. 

With official stamps and signatures.?

or the citizens of countries who can get an income letter from their Embassy without any proof

They pay and say, embassy, writes it , prints it and stamps it

How many fudge the numbers to get the letter thats deliberately applied for to deceive immigration?

I would  bet not many Americans pay visa agents 25,000 for borrowing the 800,000 baht

The US embassy letter is as good as cash to immigration and is much cheaper at $25

 

 

 

 

[notamember]

3 hours ago, Phuket Man said:

Yes , but the one who cops it when the brown stuff hits the fan is the applicant.

 

did anyone get arrested after the visit to Chonburi documented below?

no mention of it on Thaivisa in the archives

they have been again since then, it was so unremarkable it did not even make the paper this time.

shit + fan= a shitty fan

nothing more

[dallen52]

54 minutes ago, notamember said:

did anyone get arrested after the visit to Chonburi documented below?

no mention of it on Thaivisa in the archives

they have been again since then, it was so unremarkable it did not even make the paper this time.

shit + fan= a shitty fan

nothing more

Chonburi is the land of milk and honey as far as postings to immigration goes. 

 

300 baht for a residence certificate. 

Hundreds a day.

No receipts...

 

My neighbor had his TR changed to O and then the 12 months retirement extension plus multiple entry stamp on the same day.

 

The agent lady said it goes to Bangkok. 

But all the stamps and signatures are Chonburi. (Jomtien)

 

The 800,000 was in his account for one hour..

Then withdrawn. Kasikorn. 

 

It may well be not the correct way.

 

But some high up officers are putting thier name stamps on them.

They must have some confidence that they will not be sprung.?

 

It would be like Lifestyles of the Rich and famous, if ever the auditors checked out thier bank accounts. ?

[dallen52]

6 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Do I have to spell it out to you???? 

Plenty of companies advertising these services. 

It must be pretty safe?

You would think...

 

Or put it this way.

You don't read about these law firms and visa agents being prosecuted. 

[Phuket Man]

1 hour ago, notamember said:

never happened yet

You sure about that?

[Phuket Man]

1 hour ago, notamember said:

no its not, how many times do you have to be told?, even the mods have said so

They have?

[rickudon]

I have adequate income for a marriage extension so use that. The documentation required is onerous but cheaper than an agent. But i have at least 3 friends who have gone the 'agent' route. The agent has a contact at the bank (the K bank usually) who provides the letter - they only need a few days notice so the money isn't seasoned. Usual price 15,000 baht plus extension fee.

 

One risk of using the agent is that they do not always use the local immigration office. My brother-in-law did this and at his 90 day report the officer told him to pay 2000 baht AND give him a bottle of Johnny Walker next time - when he said no, the officer said OK, you go Chonburi to do 90 day report ..... which would have cost him about 2000 baht in travel costs and waste a day or two. He paid up.

 

Much better to go the legal route if you can.

[elviajero]

19 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

If you don't have the required funds in the bank, or the required income, please explain how an agent can obtain an extension on your behalf legally.

There is no law that says you have to have funds in the bank or income to get an extension of stay.

 

The law gives the power to TIB and the MoI to decide the reasons for an extension and the criteria applicants should meet to get the extension. Any of the criteria for an extension can be waived by a senior officer.

 

ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU No. 327/2557
Subject: Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien’s Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application.

 

Most agents do put money in the applicants account. Some for the full 2/3 months, but most just for the time it takes to get the extension. There is no law/rule/regulation that says you can't borrow the money to meet the criteria or any requirement to prove where the money comes from. A loophole that's currently wide open.

 

It is very easy for an immigration officer to get an application signed off with 800K in an account for only a few days, as long as the officer signing off is on side.

[elviajero]

18 hours ago, Pilotman said:

On 6/19/2018 at 2:41 PM, elviajero said:

No it’s not.

If the agent provides the funds yes it is.  No argument. Check the regulations or ask Ubon Joe. 

There is no law/regulation saying that you cannot borrow the money to meet the criteria for an extension. That means you break no law by borrowing the money from a friend or a friendly agent.

[elviajero]

16 hours ago, dakineto said:

Funds don't need to be seasoned if you are a parent of a Thai. Could you provide a source for that? 

If you are married it needs to be in the account for 2 months, if a parent/married parent it doesn't. You will see from the Police Order link given by UJ.

 

I have personally done it twice, once at Chaengwattana and once at Kanchanaburi immigration. I was first told of the possibility by a senior officer at CW. 

[balo]

32 minutes ago, elviajero said:

There is no law/regulation saying that you cannot borrow the money to meet the criteria for an extension. That means you break no law by borrowing the money from a friend or a friendly agent.

 

Using a recommended agent is completely safe and I would think around 25% of the retired people use them . They borrow the money for a short time so the agent can process the extension .  The normal agent fee for this is 15 to 20k thb. 

 

Most of my friends use an agent.   But I understand some provinces can be worse than others, Chonburi never been a problem . 

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by balo

[notamember]

10 hours ago, Phuket Man said:

You sure about that?

yes

[notamember]

10 hours ago, Phuket Man said:

They have?

yes on many similar threads as this one

i cannot be bothered to search for them for you

elvajeiro sums it up nicely on this page anyway

Edited June 21, 2018 by notamember

[notamember]

7 hours ago, rickudon said:

I have adequate income for a marriage extension so use that. The documentation required is onerous but cheaper than an agent. But i have at least 3 friends who have gone the 'agent' route. The agent has a contact at the bank (the K bank usually) who provides the letter - they only need a few days notice so the money isn't seasoned. Usual price 15,000 baht plus extension fee.

 

One risk of using the agent is that they do not always use the local immigration office. My brother-in-law did this and at his 90 day report the officer told him to pay 2000 baht AND give him a bottle of Johnny Walker next time - when he said no, the officer said OK, you go Chonburi to do 90 day report ..... which would have cost him about 2000 baht in travel costs and waste a day or two. He paid up.

 

Much better to go the legal route if you can.

TM28 & TM30 is for people to change address with

he should have done so

his fault, no one elses

[notamember]

3 hours ago, balo said:

 

Using a recommended agent is completely safe and I would think around 25% of the retired people use them . They borrow the money for a short time so the agent can process the extension .  The normal agent fee for this is 15 to 20k thb. 

 

Most of my friends use an agent.   But I understand some provinces can be worse than others, Chonburi never been a problem . 

 

 

 

i know some people in Phuket who have the funds but pay an agent to do it in Chonburi to avoid going to Phuket immigration to do it themselves.

they say they are so hostile, one of them witnessed a lady being bawled out by an IO and was kicked out in floods of tears, to the horror of the waiting crowd

He went after her to offer comfort and she told him it was over a lack of one photocopy in herb applkication

she said she was never going back there

he saw her around town months later , she said she had used an agent in Chonburi who does her 90 days reports too

she said she will never go back to phuket immigration willingly even if she had to move to another area in Thailand

 

[notamember]

12 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

All three are dodgy. Under ideal circumstances they could share the same cell.

and americans  who lie to a federal agency to get an inflated income letter to deceive immigration?

what of them?

[dallen52]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

There is no law that says you have to have funds in the bank or income to get an extension of stay.

 

The law gives the power to TIB and the MoI to decide the reasons for an extension and the criteria applicants should meet to get the extension. Any of the criteria for an extension can be waived by a senior officer.

 

ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU No. 327/2557
Subject: Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien’s Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application.

 

Most agents do put money in the applicants account. Some for the full 2/3 months, but most just for the time it takes to get the extension. There is no law/rule/regulation that says you can't borrow the money to meet the criteria or any requirement to prove where the money comes from. A loophole that's currently wide open.

 

It is very easy for an immigration officer to get an application signed off with 800K in an account for only a few days, as long as the officer signing off is on side.

One hour...

800,000 deposited at 2pm.

Withdrawn at 3pm.

Same day..

Ive actually seen the bank book when he got it back and he updated it. 

 

He has to deposit 500 baht of his own money. Kasikorn Bank. 

[notamember]

2 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

One hour...

800,000 deposited at 2pm.

Withdrawn at 3pm.

Same day..

Ive actually seen the bank book when he got it back and he updated it. 

 

He has to deposit 500 baht of his own money. Kasikorn Bank. 

if he had to update the bank book then the return transfer was done via an ATM 

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

It is very easy for an immigration officer to get an application signed off with 800K in an account for only a few days, as long as the officer signing off is on side.

Yes, I know at least 4 expats who obtained retirement extensions from CW, using 'agents' and the conversion process, TV > Non Imm > Ext.

 

In each case the Non Imm was issued without proof of funds coming from overseas and no seasoning of the 800,000 baht financial requirement as both were issued one day after the other.

That in itself is a clear breach of Police Orders.

 

Fees varied from 38,000 - 42,000 baht.

2,000 for the Non Imm, 1,900 for the extension.

If you believe the IO used his discretion under the below rule, forwarded it to the Commander for approval, because he was purely a good friend of the agent, or took pity on the expats plight, you paid to much for your rose tinted glasses.

 

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU No. 327/2557
Subject: Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien’s Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application.

Pray tell, what happens to the extra 35,000 - 40,000 fee paid.

The agent keeps it!

[notamember]

11 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Yes, I know at least 4 expats who obtained retirement extensions from CW, using 'agents' and the conversion process, TV > Non Imm > Ext.

 

In each case the Non Imm was issued without proof of funds coming from overseas and no seasoning of the 800,000 baht financial requirement as both were issued one day after the other.

That in itself is a clear breach of Police Orders.

 

Fees varied from 38,000 - 42,000 baht.

2,000 for the Non Imm, 1,900 for the extension.

If you believe the IO used his discretion under the below rule, forwarded it to the Commander for approval, because he was purely a good friend of the agent, or took pity on the expats plight, you paid to much for your rose tinted glasses.

 

Pray tell, what happens to the extra 35,000 - 40,000 fee paid.

The agent keeps it!

Pray tell, what happens to the extra 35,000 - 40,000 fee paid.

The agent keeps it!

 

if you are asking the question, then you do not know and it then follows that your answer to  your own question is pure speculation

[transam]

A weee story regarding a picky imm. officer...

 

My chum (75) has been here for years, keeps 800k in an account that he doesn't touch, keeps it just for his extensions. he has another account which his pension etc is paid into which he uses for living stuff.

At renewal they said we see no money from outside LOS coming into your account, he explained the two accounts. They said they want to see outside money coming in, so he transferred the 800k into the other account to show activity in the future.

 

I told him perhaps they think you are making money in LOS.....

[MyFriend You]

On 6/20/2018 at 7:48 AM, Tanoshi said:

If you don't have the required funds in the bank, or the required income, please explain how an agent can obtain an extension on your behalf legally.

Bribery most likely........it may not be illegal to use an agent, but it is dodgy - what if the 'agent' gets a bogus stamp??  The next time the passport holder applies for a extension -  he is found to be overstayed and risks a fine & five year ban from Thailand.........the agent has no such risk..........don't use them for a dodgy Extension of Stay..

[Peterw42]

People seem to be under the impression that (agent) extensions without funds are happening in a back ally somewhere, involving a rogue immigration officer, brown envelopes etc. They happen in broad daylight, with the full cooperation and knowledge of the office. There is nothing illegal about it. It just goes through a higher level officer with discretionary powers. (as in post 74)

Agents have relationships with immigration offices, they deal with higher level immigration officers who can override the seasoning requirements.

Not much different to hiring a lawyer (agent) for a legal matter, they will have knowledge and access to the higher level legal system beyond a normal citizen. OR going to the bank to overdraw your account, the teller cannot authorize the overdrawing, but the manager can (the agent gives you access to the bank manager)

 

Yes, its probably not fair or ethical that the ex-pat at the counter downstairs doesn't have access to the officer with discretionary powers upstairs, only agents have access to the guy upstairs. 

 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

People seem to be under the impression that (agent) extensions without funds are happening in a back ally somewhere, involving a rogue immigration officer, brown envelopes etc. They happen in broad daylight, with the full cooperation and knowledge of the office. There is nothing illegal about it. It just goes through a higher level officer with discretionary powers. (as in post 74)

Agents have relationships with immigration offices, they deal with higher level immigration officers who can override the seasoning requirements.

Not much different to hiring a lawyer (agent) for a legal matter, they will have knowledge and access to the higher level legal system beyond a normal citizen. OR going to the bank to overdraw your account, the teller cannot authorize the overdrawing, but the manager can (the agent gives you access to the bank manager)

 

Yes, its probably not fair or ethical that the ex-pat at the counter downstairs doesn't have access to the officer with discretionary powers upstairs, only agents have access to the guy upstairs. 

 

Nice earner...