Degenerative Myelopathy in dogs

[Speedo1968]

Has any had or does anyone have a dog with Degenerative Myelopathy ?     Often called "Sway back".

I understand this is common ( genetic trait ) in Alsatians, particularly males and, also occurs in dogs with German Shepard genes.

Have seen myself in Thailand and other countries.

I also understand that this condition rarely if ever improves and euthanasia is unfortunately required.

 

A friend has treated another dog that had had a stroke and had lost all mobility and most bodily functions.

The friend is a qualified acupuncturist, the dog they treated recovered to full health.

 

The dog that has DM although friendly will not allow needles to be placed.    It did accept massage but even that is now not possible.

Has anyone found another method of treatment that could work ?

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

It would probably be better to post this on the 'Plants, Pets and Vets' sub-forum.

[Speedo1968]

On 6/23/2018 at 10:32 AM, dick dasterdly said:

It would probably be better to post this on the 'Plants, Pets and Vets' sub-forum.

Many thanks.    Didn't know there was one, thanks for letting me know.

Will try to find where it is, guess in general.

[wildewillie89]

By the looks of it DM is a disease that has no known cure. So basically people must attempt to purely slow down the progression of it before the inevitable (putting the dog down). In saying that, it also looks like to do this, ideas are more based on theory rather than any research showing any real effective ways.

Exercise and diet are the two things. The same with hip dysplasia and most issues relating to the spine and/or joints.

The idea of exercise is to obviously stop the muscles from wasting away and to stimulate nerve growth factor in the spinal cord. So walks, hydro work, stretching rear legs, strengthening the dogs core if possible etc. Maybe think of ways to motivate the dog to do this, for example, group walks (whether with other dogs/people), rather than the standard boring walk with man and dog. Or play into the dogs natural working instincts so it is something enjoyable for the dog to do. 

Diet is obviously to maintain weight, but also trying to offer beneficial supplements that the theory suggests may help. Turmeric is one of those supplements, fish and eggs have also been thought to be included in the diet (fish oil and fatty acids). Foods such as animal brain, kidney and liver provide lectithin, which seems to be something people like to use. Apart from that people seem to think tofu, olive oil and then just your standard left overs of brown rice and vegetables may provide some benefits.

If a working dog, it is one of those things that may just be best to end the misery for him. Some dogs can still remain happy in life even when left disabled. Many working dogs, in my opinion, would be better off put down as they cannot perform the very role they have dedicated their life to so move into a kind of depressive state. I will get jumped on for that comment by some members, but at the end of the day it is the dog we should be thinking about. The disease is not in itself physically painful (other than in other parts of the body that need to pick up the slack to be mobile), but how psychologically painful is it?  Only the owner can judge if the disease is more painful to the dog than the pain the owner will feel putting the dog out of its misery. Also, another factor, is if the owner becomes depressed dealing with the disease, the dog should probably be put to sleep as well. An exhausted owner can not give the energy and strict lifestyle (dealing with bed sores/ulcers, preventing urinary tract infections, physically moving the dog - basically a 24 hour nurse) dealing plan the dog may need and seeing as the animal will only get worse and worse, it may be best to end it. 

*Edit for the inevitable criticism on TV: Yes, I would have the same response if it was a human grandparent (dogs normally get it when older), who had a similar disease that had no cure and was only going to decrease quality of life. If they could not make the decision, I am sure the logical thing to do is put them out of their misery. Dogs cant tell us what they want, a peaceful and painless death I think is not only helping the dog but also a dignified end for it. The dog goes out closer to its glory days rather than unhappy and severely disabled as us humans are too selfish to see the writing on the wall and deal our own emotions. Or we live in a world of hope and hope for some miracle (to the dogs detriment if hope for too long) - rather than a world of science. Onset is usually after 7 years, the dog has had a good life. 

[Speedo1968]

On 6/29/2018 at 9:04 AM, wildewillie89 said:

By the looks of it DM is a disease that has no known cure. So basically people must attempt to purely slow down the progression of it before the inevitable (putting the dog down). In saying that, it also looks like to do this, ideas are more based on theory rather than any research showing any real effective ways.

Exercise and diet are the two things. The same with hip dysplasia and most issues relating to the spine and/or joints.

The idea of exercise is to obviously stop the muscles from wasting away and to stimulate nerve growth factor in the spinal cord. So walks, hydro work, stretching rear legs, strengthening the dogs core if possible etc. Maybe think of ways to motivate the dog to do this, for example, group walks (whether with other dogs/people), rather than the standard boring walk with man and dog. Or play into the dogs natural working instincts so it is something enjoyable for the dog to do. 

Diet is obviously to maintain weight, but also trying to offer beneficial supplements that the theory suggests may help. Turmeric is one of those supplements, fish and eggs have also been thought to be included in the diet (fish oil and fatty acids). Foods such as animal brain, kidney and liver provide lectithin, which seems to be something people like to use. Apart from that people seem to think tofu, olive oil and then just your standard left overs of brown rice and vegetables may provide some benefits.

If a working dog, it is one of those things that may just be best to end the misery for him. Some dogs can still remain happy in life even when left disabled. Many working dogs, in my opinion, would be better off put down as they cannot perform the very role they have dedicated their life to so move into a kind of depressive state. I will get jumped on for that comment by some members, but at the end of the day it is the dog we should be thinking about. The disease is not in itself physically painful (other than in other parts of the body that need to pick up the slack to be mobile), but how psychologically painful is it?  Only the owner can judge if the disease is more painful to the dog than the pain the owner will feel putting the dog out of its misery. Also, another factor, is if the owner becomes depressed dealing with the disease, the dog should probably be put to sleep as well. An exhausted owner can not give the energy and strict lifestyle (dealing with bed sores/ulcers, preventing urinary tract infections, physically moving the dog - basically a 24 hour nurse) dealing plan the dog may need and seeing as the animal will only get worse and worse, it may be best to end it. 

*Edit for the inevitable criticism on TV: Yes, I would have the same response if it was a human grandparent (dogs normally get it when older), who had a similar disease that had no cure and was only going to decrease quality of life. If they could not make the decision, I am sure the logical thing to do is put them out of their misery. Dogs cant tell us what they want, a peaceful and painless death I think is not only helping the dog but also a dignified end for it. The dog goes out closer to its glory days rather than unhappy and severely disabled as us humans are too selfish to see the writing on the wall and deal our own emotions. Or we live in a world of hope and hope for some miracle (to the dogs detriment if hope for too long) - rather than a world of science. Onset is usually after 7 years, the dog has had a good life. 

Very many thanks 'wildewille89' for your informative, caring and honest reply.

 

Since the 1970's my family and I in the UK have had rescue dogs, some we rescued ourselves, some from rescue centres.    We have had to make the final choice on a number of occasions when a member of our family became no longer able to live a life without pain / suffering.     From incurable and extremely aggressive cancer to old age ( 18 years ).    

 

One dog ( and a cat ) were rescued from Thailand when my daughters were here, taken back to England where they lived for more than 10 years.    Fortunately when in quarantine we got special permission for the dog and cat to

stay together as this helps avoid cage fever, also the facilities were excellent at the center outside Peterborough UK.

Some of the ashes of the Thai dog were returned to Thailand by a daughter in 2016 to be spread in the sea near where my daughter lived.

One daughter who had recently lost the 18 year old and has helped at animal shelters was helping out at a center in Northern Cyprus.     A gun dog / water dog puppy was dumped in a iron cage full of broken cement bags and was going to be shot ( it didn't meet the standard ! ).    At night my daughter freed the dog, walked it over the border to Greek Cyprus where it was housed and my daughter arranged for it to be flown to England.    That dog turned out to be a wonderful companion and an excellent fun walks water dog.

 

As for my friends dog here in Thailand, my friend is finding it difficult to accept that the dog has, without doubt, DM; even though she has seen a pure Alsatian here where I live die with exactly the same symptoms a year ago.

I sympathise with her and support any kind of treatment that may help or be seen to help.     The dog is beginning to accept finger taps on its back, the next step will be a pencil point and hopefully after that my friend could administer acupuncture.

For the first time my friend has admitted to seeing pain in the dogs eyes.    MD is said not to generally cause pain ( obviously depending on what part of the body is affected ).     The pain shown in the eyes may be / could be / is that of sadness as understood by the dog when knowing that it is ill and, that it may soon loose its life long friends ( other dogs / animals or humans ).    I have worked most of life with animals and have seen recognizable physical gestures of their own suffering or that of others.

 

I am sure that the right thing will be done when the time comes, how ever hard that is for all parties, our friend and ourselves.