2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The idea we should be tolerant of all ideas is based on the fallacy that all ideas are of equal standing.

 

Ideas based on lies, that promote hatred or violence are clearly not tolerable.

But all I see is hatred from the left. I have never witnessed such open hate as I see directed to the POTUS. Hopefully you will now censor your self because your views are by your own definition are intolerable.

Edited June 24, 20188 yr by canuckamuck

3 minutes ago, riclag said:

Her haters want her ban from twitter for using a government account, if I'm not mistaken!

It seems the statement I made differs from yours about that statement: " anybody using the government twitter account to personally comment on a eatery should be banned from that account. ".

1 minute ago, Odysseus123 said:

You can count me in on that one.The sooner public servants (albeit temporary ones) learn not to use their gov't accounts as a free for all-the better off we will all be.

Tweeter finds it newsworthy ,so it ain't gonna happen

38 minutes ago, Silurian said:

 

Interesting that she used the official Press Secretary account instead of her own personal twitter account to make a statement. Was she at the restaurant on official government business? I guess this instance required the use of government resources to make a personal point. Smacks of abuse of power.

If it had been H. Clinton there would be Congressional hearings into the private use of a gov Twitter account. 

1 minute ago, riclag said:

Tweeter finds it newsworthy ,so it ain't gonna happen

Possibly-which is why she posted it ("newsworthy"),eh?

4 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

But all I see is hatred from the left. I have never witnessed such open hate as I see directed to the POTUS. Hopefully you will now censor your self because your views are by your own definition are intolerable.

Really? Good to know that the Obama is a Muslim  and the Obama wasn't born in the USA allegations never found any traction in the Republican Party. And even better that the current POTUS forthrightly declared it was nonsense right from the start.

6 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

But all I see is hatred from the left. I have never witnessed such open hate as I see directed to the POTUS. Hopefully you will now censor your self because your views are by your own definition are intolerable.

Yeah, but you weren't watching FOX NEWS while Obama was POTUS

12 minutes ago, genericptr said:

You're missing the point of the analogy. It's supposed to make you question the use of force to compel a person to perform a service. It doesn't matter who the 2 parties involved are. The use of force is the important part.

Correct and force should not be used to compel anyone. The baker refused the gays and the restaurant owner can refuse Sanders. What is the problem? They refuse as it is their choice.  Why is the restaurant owner being victimized and why did Sanders tweet about it anyway? Was it her turn to stir the crap this weekend? Give the boss a break maybe. I imagine the black/KKK and Jew/Nazi comparisons are a little more than 'force'. One group actively murdered the other therefore to expect service would be naive at best.

As much as I dislike Donald Trump and his policies and Ms Sanders for being part of an Administration that tramples on the rights of others- I would  have served her and I would have made no comment on her job or political orientation.

 

IMHO- when one operates a business open to the public- that business should serve everyone regardless of their  religion; their cultural background; their color; etc.  This type of behavior is as bad as the behavior of Trump and his minions.  They call everything they do not agree with as 'fake news'.  Differing opinions are not fake news.  Everyone in America has a right to express their opinion and should not be denied that right because you and I do not agree with it.

 

Donald Trump was voted into office by Americans completely fed up with the status quo and Trump has outlined many of the problems that need fixing.  However- it is his solutions that are flawed.  Every American knows there is a flawed Immigration system but Trump's response is not the solution. In fact- I have yet to see Trump provide an adequate solution to any issue including NKorea.  Denying service to Trump's supporters when they enter a restaurant will change nothing.

 

I will continue to voice my opinion which will also not change anything except possibly a few people who may consider my opinion valid and then vote accordingly.  The way to defeat Trump and his flawed American vision is to  vote him out of office as well as members of congress that also support Trump.

 

America will have an election  in early November of this year and I would expect that the Democrats will regain control of the House.  If this is the case- the American voters will have spoken again and their vote will tell the World that Trump and his policies are not the answer to solving America's problems.

 

There are real solutions to America's problems but none of these solutions involve changing America into a country that uses or propagates laws to exclude and divide people or in any way allows racism; misogyny; homophobia or discrimination to be the normal way people interact with each other.

32 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Which is why I'm still in two minds about businesses being allowed to refuse service.

 

I'm sure we can all think of some examples of people we would happily refuse to serve if we had a business and they turned up at our establishment!   The authorities have to draw a line somewhere, and some people will approve of 'the line' whereas others will disapprove.  It will also be a constantly moving 'line' as prejudices change.

 

Refusing service for religious beliefs and the political party one supports are an obvious 'crossing of the line' to me.

 

12 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Spin BS.

 

It is nothing to do with political parties. 50% of everyone that eats there at the 'Red Hen' will on average be Republican or Democrat. It is the fact that this woman stands up in front of the American people every day on behalf of the Kidnapper in Chief and she ........Lies. She lies incessantly, she is not a good person, she is utterly horrible. The administration is enforcing the removal of rights for certain minorities and the restaurant owner has every right to say 'you are not welcome in my establishment'  which she owns and pays taxes on. Sanders crosses the line every single day when she lies to the American public. I wouldn't want traitors in my restaurant either.  Sander's claims to be a Christian, so the day will come when she will say 'but I was just following orders', and God will say "just take elevator number 2, yes that's it, the one over there marked 'down'  ".'

Please quote my entire post, rather than just truncating it to change the meaning of the post.

 

But you have a point insofar as there are a few people in political posts that I would include in my list of "people we would happily refuse to serve if we had a business and they turned up at our establishment! "

12 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I have never witnessed such open hate as I see directed to the POTUS.

 

Were you in a coma ~ 2008 - 2016?

10 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

But all I see is hatred from the left. I have never witnessed such open hate as I see directed to the POTUS. Hopefully you will now censor your self because your views are by your own definition are intolerable.

I hate Nazi's, I hate the KKK, I hate bigots, I hate Dictators, I hate Kim Jong and I hate Trump and his entire administration. He belongs to a special, small, unique class of people in my life. To the rest I am the nicest most generous person in the whole world. I am not left, I am right of center, but there is no love in my heart for someone of Trump's despicable nature. As my Dad said, you are measured by the company you keep, remember that when you support an oxygen thief like Trump and those in his inner circle.

8 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

As much as I dislike Donald Trump and his policies and Ms Sanders for being part of an Administration that tramples on the rights of others- I would  have served her and I would have made no comment on her job or political orientation.

 

IMHO- when one operates a business open to the public- that business should serve everyone regardless of their  religion; their cultural background; their color; etc.  This type of behavior is as bad as the behavior of Trump and his minions.  They call everything they do not agree with as 'fake news'.  Differing opinions are not fake news.  Everyone in America has a right to express their opinion and should not be denied that right because you and I do not agree with it.

 

Donald Trump was voted into office by Americans completely fed up with the status quo and Trump has outlined many of the problems that need fixing.  However- it is his solutions that are flawed.  Every American knows there is a flawed Immigration system but Trump's response is not the solution. In fact- I have yet to see Trump provide an adequate solution to any issue including NKorea.  Denying service to Trump's supporters when they enter a restaurant will change nothing.

 

I will continue to voice my opinion which will also not change anything except possibly a few people who may consider my opinion valid and then vote accordingly.  The way to defeat Trump and his flawed American vision is to  vote him out of office as well as members of congress that also support Trump.

 

America will have an election  in early November of this year and I would expect that the Democrats will regain control of the House.  If this is the case- the American voters will have spoken again and their vote will tell the World that Trump and his policies are not the answer to solving America's problems.

 

There are real solutions to America's problems but none of these solutions involve changing America into a country that uses or propagates laws to exclude and divide people or in any way allows racism; misogyny; homophobia or discrimination to be the normal way people interact with each other.

I like the part about the vote and your opinion.You have managed to say a few positive suggestions , that's extremely rare coming from the otherside

Thanks

Edited June 24, 20188 yr by riclag

1 minute ago, riclag said:

I like the part about the vote and your opinion.You have managed to say a few positive suggestions , that's extremely rare coming from the otherside

Thanks

Yes, he is telling the truth, you "Her haters want her ban from twitter for using a government account, if I'm not mistaken! " are not.

11 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

But all I see is hatred from the left. I have never witnessed such open hate as I see directed to the POTUS. Hopefully you will now censor your self because your views are by your own definition are intolerable.

"I have never witnessed such open hate as I see directed to the POTUS"

 

Can anyone seriously disagree with this comment???

 

I pay little attention to US politics, but the hate is 'shoved in my nose' every day in the media....

 

There is little doubt (to me anyway) that trump is obnoxious - but the constant hate campaign is extremely annoying.

 

Obama suffered something similar from certain elements, but nothing close to what is happening now.

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

Treat people with respect by lying to them?

If she had any integrity she would resign. 

Rumor (fake news?) has it that she's growing a bit disenchanted by the actualities of being the POTUS's second-tier official mouthpiece (his twittering is tier 1). When she throws the towel in, more than likely she will be labeled as being weak, unreliable, disloyal or the usual epithets bandied about the regular right-wing press and the remaining administration when a former 'good man' finds that compromising one's principles isn't what they signed up for.

 

In other (recycled) news, Whitehouse staffers are whining about being unable to date in Washington, such is the general revulsion for anyone hired as a part-time swamp cleaner. At least that should stop them breeding.

4 hours ago, lanista said:

Obviously the Red Hen was looking for free publicity and got it.

Lets investigate  them to see how much they pay their American staff.( undocumented migrants maybe)  Two dollars an hour + tips???

Australian  hospitality staff earn 20 -35 an hour + tips.

Off topic , but must set the record straight. Majority of Oz staff in small restaurants are paid below the minimum wage, no super, no holiday, no sick pay, rarely tipped

Edited June 24, 20188 yr by simple1

She probably should have used her private Twitter account - she has one, and the use of her "government" position to comment on this matter may be worthy of a reprimand.

 

But her boss routinely uses his government Twitter account to attack all manner of businesses, countries and individuals, except for Vladimir Putin and the occasional "good" Nazi or pedophile, so the poor behavior rolls downhill and quite frankly, influences people on both sides.

 

 

28 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

But all I see is hatred from the left. I have never witnessed such open hate as I see directed to the POTUS. Hopefully you will now censor your self because your views are by your own definition are intolerable.

 

Would your statement apply to POTUS Trump's speeches, tweets, interviews?   

15 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Were you in a coma ~ 2008 - 2016?

 

20 minutes ago, pegman said:

Yeah, but you weren't watching FOX NEWS while Obama was POTUS

The previous POTUS was attacked for his lack of accomplishment and his socialist programs. In other words he was attacked for his policy.

Trump is attacked at extremely personal levels constantly. 

Libtards are such a bunch of hive brain political xenophobes.

 

Lets hope they find a cure soon....

1 minute ago, Opl said:

 

Would your statement apply to POTUS Trump's speeches, tweets, interviews?   

Example?

2 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

The previous POTUS was attacked for his lack of accomplishment and his socialist programs. In other words he was attacked for his policy.

 

I honestly think you have selective memory issues with regards to the eight+ years beginning in 2008.

 

Can you "Tan Suit"? Or "Birther"?

5 minutes ago, SteveB2 said:

Libtards are such a bunch of hive brain political xenophobes.

 

Lets hope they find a cure soon....

I’m sure that makes sense to you, or at least for your own sake I hope it does.

6 hours ago, stevenl said:

Trump has divided the country.

The racist democrats have divided this country.

24 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

 

The previous POTUS was attacked for his lack of accomplishment and his socialist programs. In other words he was attacked for his policy.

Trump is attacked at extremely personal levels constantly. 

First statement: totally false, see the muslim from Kenya.

Second statement, true, that is what happens when you constantly attack at extremely personal levels. You reap what you sow.

Edited June 24, 20188 yr by stevenl

Discrimination really sucks when you're on the wrong end of it, doesn't it? ?

22 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

I hate Nazi's, I hate the KKK, I hate bigots, I hate Dictators, I hate Kim Jong and I hate Trump and his entire administration. He belongs to a special, small, unique class of people in my life. To the rest I am the nicest most generous person in the whole world. I am not left, I am right of center, but there is no love in my heart for someone of Trump's despicable nature. As my Dad said, you are measured by the company you keep, remember that when you support an oxygen thief like Trump and those in his inner circle.

Does it feel good to have the freedom to say that? it should. However, I think there are people on the Trump administration that do not deserve your generalizations. I think the NAZI's are out of office now, but you probably mean people who identify as Nazis. I have never met one, but I think they are probably not really popular guys. The KKK, same thing, how many are there anyways, could they fill a two car garage?

I think that it is possible to have a benevolent dictator, but I don't think many have existed. What you don't like about dictators is likely that they don't love freedom for the people to express themselves and challenge the status quo. I dislike the left for being similar in their rantings. I think there are a lot of bigots these days on the left. Except they are bigoted against western culture, white people, men, religion, and conservatives... I don't like any bigots.

Kim Jung Un is obviously a dick.

44 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Pegman said intolerance of intolerance is a virtue. I said intolerance of ideas in never a virtue. Which is to say, we must allow people to have their ideas and the freedom to express them.

 

And if we're being logically consistent, the freedom to ridicule and deride them.  In other words, to be intolerant of them.  

 

44 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Banning free speech and expression is fascist.

 

Which has nothing to do with what we're discussing, but since you brought it up: Donald Trump's Dictatorial Approach to Free Speech

 

"President-elect Donald Trump demonstrated his authoritarian impulses once again on Tuesday with a call for the criminalization of dissent. In the early morning, he took to Twitter [...] to proclaim that burning a U.S. flag should be punished by 'perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail'."

 

 

44 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Being intolerant of free expression is intolerance. People with unhealthy and dangerous ideas are best sorted out through the function of unobstructed debate.

 

What if debate itself is suppressed?  Would you tolerate that?

 

I find it hard to believe that somebody who espouses some reprehensible idea, let's say eugenics as an example, is going to have a sudden change of heart after a debate.

2 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

What if debate itself is suppressed?  Would you tolerate that?

 

I find it hard to believe that somebody who espouses some reprehensible idea, let's say eugenics as an example, is going to have a sudden change of heart after a debate.

Tolerating someone's actions are different than tolerating their ideas. Banning debate is an action.

The eugenics guy can be shown to be reprehensible by openly debating his position. It is OK if for him to be wrong, but not OK for him to break the law by acting on his reprehensible idea.