Plant Based Nutrition and Fasting

[Bonobojt]

I'm currently following this vegan guy called Tim on YouTube, he is currently doing a 40 day water fast at home without Medical Supervision, now he's on day 33, he's made a video about each day if you want to check them out.

 

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by Bonobojt

[balo]

I would be careful with water fasting if you only weigh 64 kilo and are tall and thin as you described earlier.  What is your height ?  

 

I'm sure 3 days is fine but I would not want to look like a skeleton . 

 

I'm also tall, 1.90 and weigh 84 kilo which is more or less ideal weight for my height. Most I have been is 89 kilo and when fasting I'm down to 84.  .  

 

 

 

[Bonobojt]

57 minutes ago, balo said:

I would be careful with water fasting if you only weigh 64 kilo and are tall and thin as you described earlier.  What is your height ?  

 

I'm sure 3 days is fine but I would not want to look like a skeleton . 

 

I'm also tall, 1.90 and weigh 84 kilo which is more or less ideal weight for my height. Most I have been is 89 kilo and when fasting I'm down to 84.  .  

 

 

 

I'm currently 5'11 tall, if I had good straight posture I'd be 6 foot tall, yeah I may not go past 3 days, to be honest 3 days was my goal as its my first ever fast. Maybe I got a little too keen and excited and had the idea to do a long fast but yes I have to be careful your right, as I am thin, not much fat on me, not medically supervised etc..

[Kohsamida]

6 hours ago, Bonobojt said:

I'm currently following this vegan guy called Tim on YouTube, he is currently doing a 40 day water fast at home without Medical Supervision, now he's on day 33, he's made a video about each day if you want to check them out.

I dunno...that guy seems a bit unbalanced. I just clicked thru bits & pieces of his video but I don't have a clue what he's trying to prove.   Just by his looks he obviously has gone way beyond anything that could be considered healthy.  It looks like he has a body-fat level in the very low single digits!  Not good at all.  Generally, people I've seen that look like that are about to be facing a life-threatening, and possibly irreversible metabolic crisis.  Did he have an explanation of why he was trying to fast in his condition? 

Edited July 9, 2018 by Kohsamida

[Bonobojt]

23 minutes ago, Kohsamida said:

I dunno...that guy seems a bit unbalanced. I didn't watch the whole video but I don't have a clue what he's trying to prove.  Just by his looks he obviously obviously has gone way beyond anything that could be considered healthy.  Did he have an explanation for why he was fasting for 40 days? 

I'm not a huge follower of him, but from the videos I've watched recently and in the past, he's definitely a spiritual guy, and he's into raw vegan diets as well as cooked whole plant foods, but he did say that he had a fungal candida toe infection that never went away and eczema on his feet, and some inflammation in his low back, 

[evadgib]

7 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

I dunno...that guy seems a bit unbalanced. I just clicked thru bits & pieces of his video but I don't have a clue what he's trying to prove.   Just by his looks he obviously has gone way beyond anything that could be considered healthy.  It looks like he has a body-fat level in the very low single digits!  Not good at all.  Generally, people I've seen that look like that are about to be facing a life-threatening, and possibly irreversible metabolic crisis.  Did he have an explanation of why he was trying to fast in his condition? 

That bloke is in 'Bobby Sands' territory! 

[Kohsamida]

9 hours ago, Bonobojt said:

I'm not a huge follower of him, but from the videos I've watched recently and in the past, he's definitely a spiritual guy, and he's into raw vegan diets as well as cooked whole plant foods, but he did say that he had a fungal candida toe infection that never went away and eczema on his feet, and some inflammation in his low back, 

This is just my own opinion, mind you, but some people put way too much emphasis on the “curative” powers of fasting, and go far beyond healthy practices of it.  Any curative power comes simply from autophagy which takes place well within the first few days of a fast.  

 

Personally I put the limit on a water fast at 7 days max.  Any curative aspect of autophagy (including inflammation) will take place in that amount of time, if it’s going to happen.

 

And even then, you need to be careful and “listen to your body”.  It will tell you in no uncertain terms if you’re pushing things too far.   

 

Of course with morbidly obese people, there’s a rationale for such a long fast if they need to rapidly loose weight because they’re in danger of life threatening metabolic crisis’ like advanced complications of diabetes or something like that, but then, only under the supervision of doctor who’s knowledgeable in managing a long-term fasting protocol.

 

I see a lot of YouTube videos like this one and I can only surmise that they just haven’t done their homework. They’re playing “Russian roulette” with their health and encouraging others to do the same by posting such videos.  Not good!

 

Personally I think there are a lot of benefits to multi-day fasting, but it’s not something to be taken lightly.  Pushing things too far can have serious and irreversible consequences.

 

Just my own opinion, of course.  I’m not a doctor, but I respect the power of fasting, both good and bad.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Kohsamida

[Bonobojt]

3 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

This is just my own opinion, mind you, but some people put way too much emphasis on the “curative” powers of fasting, and go far beyond healthy practices of it.  Any curative power comes simply from autophagy which takes place well within the first few days of a fast.  

 

Personally I put the limit on a water fast at 7 days max.  Any curative aspect of autophagy (including inflammation) will take place in that amount of time, if it’s going to happen.

 

And even then, you need to be careful and “listen to your body”.  It will tell you in no uncertain terms if you’re pushing things too far.   

 

Of course with morbidly obese people, there’s a rationale for such a long fast if they need to rapidly loose weight because they’re in danger of life threatening metabolic crisis’ like advanced complications of diabetes or something like that, but then, only under the supervision of doctor who’s knowledgeable in managing a long-term fasting protocol.

 

I see a lot of YouTube videos like this one and I can only surmise that they just haven’t done their homework. They’re playing “Russian roulette” with their health and encouraging others to do the same by posting such videos.  Not good!

 

Personally I think there are a lot of benefits to multi-day fasting, but it’s not something to be taken lightly.  Pushing things too far can have serious and irreversible consequences.

 

Just my own opinion, of course.  I’m not a doctor, but I respect the power of fasting, both good and bad.

40 days with no food and distilled water is extreme for sure, but yeah they do it because they say its letting the body focus on healing instead of digestion, some healing can take time, depending on the issue. I'm sort of 50/50 on it, I think if the water is pure and clean, and your in a suitable environment like a fasting retreat in Thailand or Costa Rica or whatever, by the beach, around nature, medically supervised then I think a long fast of 20 to 40 days can reset the gut, kill any Candida, starve and kill parasites, re balance or reset your gut bacteria, maybe heal gut inflammation etc.. 

 

but it is very risky to try a 40 day fast at home without clean pure water and a doctor, and it does seem like your starving yourself, and in terms of killing parasites you can just buy a supplement or go to the pharmacy and get some pills, papaya seeds are also good for that, and you can get good gut bacteria just by changing your diet to a whole foods plant based or mostly plant based diet, water fasting for 40 days just seems like an extreme other option to heal, or what some people would say 'a health freaks quack option'... but I'm 50/50 on it, I think there's some good to it if done correctly in a suitable environment.   

[Bonobojt]

Day 1 of my 3 day water fast -  had a bowel movement in the morning which is normal for me, I wasn't really hungry to be honest for the whole day, it was mostly easy, some moments where you see a picture of food or you can smell someone cooking food and you start to crave food or think about food, but it wasn't too bad, happy I got through day 1 with ease.

[Kohsamida]

57 minutes ago, Bonobojt said:

Day 1 of my 3 day water fast -  had a bowel movement in the morning which is normal for me, I wasn't really hungry to be honest for the whole day, it was mostly easy, some moments where you see a picture of food or you can smell someone cooking food and you start to crave food or think about food, but it wasn't too bad, happy I got through day 1 with ease.

LOL...I always become a big fan of food videos on YouTube when I'm on a fast ?.  Get through this first day and you're well on your way!  Just making a start is the hardest thing with a fast I think.

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Kohsamida

[Bonobojt]

17 minutes ago, Kohsamida said:

LOL...I always become a big fan of food videos on YouTube when I'm on a fast ?.  Get through this first day and you're well on your way!  Just making a start is the hardest thing with a fast I think.

 

I think I'm gonna appreciate food a lot of more after this ! lol the smells, the colors, the tastes, everything !

[Kohsamida]

Just now, Bonobojt said:

I think I'm gonna appreciate food a lot of more after this ! lol the smells, the colors, the tastes, everything !

I think you are right.  Even coming out of a 3 day fast, that first mouth full of food is amazing!  Just personal preference but I like to have watermelon for that first food.  I can't think of anything that tastes so satisfying, and your stomach will thank you for it too ?

 

[Bonobojt]

27 minutes ago, Kohsamida said:

I think you are right.  Even coming out of a 3 day fast, that first mouth full of food is amazing!  Just personal preference but I like to have watermelon for that first food.  I can't think of anything that tastes so satisfying, and your stomach will thank you for it too ?

 

so an option the break a short 3 day Fast is watermelon ? I was thinking how to break this fast, some people say just drink juices, some eat just raw fruits and some veg,  any suggestions other than watermelon ? 

[Kohsamida]

7 minutes ago, Bonobojt said:

so an option the break a short 3 day Fast is watermelon ? I was thinking how to break this fast, some people say just drink juices, some eat just raw fruits and some veg,  any suggestions other than watermelon ? 

On a 3 day fast, I wouldn't worry too much about how you break the fast.  Just use common sense.  Juices is a good way to start.  I'm partial to watermelon because it's easily digested and I love the taste, but any fruit as long as it isn't too acidic would work I guess.  Just start with juice, progress maybe to a smoothie, then maybe whole fruits, salad, all in small portions throughout the day.  It should really only take you a day to get back to regular eating IMO.

[Kohsamida]

2 hours ago, Bonobojt said:

40 days with no food and distilled water is extreme for sure, but yeah they do it because they say its letting the body focus on healing instead of digestion, some healing can take time, depending on the issue. I'm sort of 50/50 on it, I think if the water is pure and clean, and your in a suitable environment like a fasting retreat in Thailand or Costa Rica or whatever, by the beach, around nature, medically supervised then I think a long fast of 20 to 40 days can reset the gut, kill any Candida, starve and kill parasites, re balance or reset your gut bacteria, maybe heal gut inflammation etc.. 

 

but it is very risky to try a 40 day fast at home without clean pure water and a doctor, and it does seem like your starving yourself, and in terms of killing parasites you can just buy a supplement or go to the pharmacy and get some pills, papaya seeds are also good for that, and you can get good gut bacteria just by changing your diet to a whole foods plant based or mostly plant based diet, water fasting for 40 days just seems like an extreme other option to heal, or what some people would say 'a health freaks quack option'... but I'm 50/50 on it, I think there's some good to it if done correctly in a suitable environment.   

Everyone has to decide for themselves.  I'm only voicing my personal opinion, and it is a lay opinion at that since I'm not a doctor or credentialed nutritionist. 

 

Many of those fasting retreats should be viewed with a fair amount of suspicion.  They are commercial ventures, and some of them are run by people with dubious qualifications.  People have died at some of them. 

 

There's a great deal of of talk about the ability of fasting to "detox" the body of environmental toxins.  I just don't buy it because there is no scientific basis for it, and any so-called studies that have been done are highly suspect.

 

Pharmaceuticals are a much more effective way to address actual parasites and deal with acute inflammation issues. Drugs like Tinidazole and Albendazole are wonder drugs when it comes to dealing with most parasites.  I don't understand at all how fasting could get rid of parasites since they are not feeding on your food, but on you. 

 

Fasting can address issues having to do with "metabolic" inflammation but it's only a first step, and one of short duration, that has to be followed up with a sustainable long-term plan of good nutrition, because lack of good nutrition is really the root cause of metabolic inflammation in the first place.

 

I just think too many people look at fasting as some sort of magic bullet, which it is not. 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Kohsamida

[Bonobojt]

oh man, Day 2 is much harder, I had another bowel movement in the morning, which pleased me, knowing I was cleaning myself out, but man, I've been thinking about food a lot today, my voice sounds weaker, I went for a walk and I'm definitely a feeling a bit fatigued and off, a little light headed sometimes but nothing too serious. Starting to have doubts about going 3 days, even had doubts about finishing this day, I know its all mind games, as I don't really feel hungry that much, but my mind is almost obsessing over food, I'm watching videos on Indian food, looking at recipes, laughing when I see Indian Food in videos etc..

but I did look in the mirror today and I looked lean and healthy, stomach was nice and flat.  

[Kohsamida]

1 hour ago, Bonobojt said:

oh man, Day 2 is much harder, I had another bowel movement in the morning, which pleased me, knowing I was cleaning myself out, but man, I've been thinking about food a lot today, my voice sounds weaker, I went for a walk and I'm definitely a feeling a bit fatigued and off, a little light headed sometimes but nothing too serious. Starting to have doubts about going 3 days, even had doubts about finishing this day, I know its all mind games, as I don't really feel hungry that much, but my mind is almost obsessing over food, I'm watching videos on Indian food, looking at recipes, laughing when I see Indian Food in videos etc..

but I did look in the mirror today and I looked lean and healthy, stomach was nice and flat.  

Hahaha; for me it's always Italian food.  Go figure ?

 

Unfortunately, you always go thru hell during the initial stages of a fast.  It's almost like your body is freaking out or something.  It's remarkable though how things get better, much better by the 3rd day for most people.  Drink plenty of water; it helps quash the hunger pangs ?

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Kohsamida

[Margaret Rodriguez]

1 hour ago, Bonobojt said:

oh man, Day 2 is much harder, I had another bowel movement in the morning, which pleased me, knowing I was cleaning myself out, but man, I've been thinking about food a lot today, my voice sounds weaker, I went for a walk and I'm definitely a feeling a bit fatigued and off, a little light headed sometimes but nothing too serious. Starting to have doubts about going 3 days, even had doubts about finishing this day, I know its all mind games, as I don't really feel hungry that much, but my mind is almost obsessing over food, I'm watching videos on Indian food, looking at recipes, laughing when I see Indian Food in videos etc..

but I did look in the mirror today and I looked lean and healthy, stomach was nice and flat.  

If you got a good result in 2 days, then it’s a good thing which can be a boon for the obese people, who wanted to be slim speedily. Well, please share your everyday experience if you continue this further. This can be an amazing practice to be thin.

[Bonobojt]

6 minutes ago, Margaret Rodriguez said:

If you got a good result in 2 days, then it’s a good thing which can be a boon for the obese people, who wanted to be slim speedily. Well, please share your everyday experience if you continue this further. This can be an amazing practice to be thin.

I am already thin Margaret, never have been fat in my life, I guess I got lucky with the genetics, I done this as I felt I needed to rest my gut. I don't have much fat on me.

[Bonobojt]

38 minutes ago, Kohsamida said:

Hahaha; for me it's always Italian food.  Go figure ?

 

Unfortunately, you always go thru hell during the initial stages of a fast.  It's almost like your body is freaking out or something.  It's remarkable though how things get better, much better by the 3rd day for most people.  Drink plenty of water; it helps quash the hunger pangs ?

 

would it be ok to break the fast whether its 2 or 3 days with plain oatmeal ? maybe with some fruit like banana ? I don't want to spend lots of money on fresh soups or fresh juices if its not really needed, 

[Kohsamida]

8 minutes ago, Bonobojt said:

would it be ok to break the fast whether its 2 or 3 days with plain oatmeal ? maybe with some fruit like banana ? I don't want to spend lots of money on fresh soups or fresh juices if its not really needed, 

I dunno about oatmeal; that might not digest so well.  Maybe just some fruit juice to begin with, followed by the banana and fruit mixed together as a smoothie maybe??  Again, you're only fasting for a few days so I think you'll be fine (even with the oatmeal if you must have it).  Just take in real small portions to see how you react at first.  You'll do fine ?

  

Edited July 10, 2018 by Kohsamida

[Kohsamida]

40 minutes ago, Bonobojt said:

would it be ok to break the fast whether its 2 or 3 days with plain oatmeal ? maybe with some fruit like banana ? I don't want to spend lots of money on fresh soups or fresh juices if its not really needed, 

Just another thought...One thing you might want to consider is having some prune juice as the first thing.  I've never done it myself but have read it is recommended by some. 

 

Remember, even though you've been fasting for a 2 or 3 days, you've still got a fair amount of undigested food in your bowels (even if you've had regular movements).  Suddenly introducing food again could result in a mild blockage that could be kind of uncomfortable so the rationale of prune juice is it kind of keeps things moving smoothly. 

 

Just a thought ?

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Kohsamida

[TravelerEastWest]

On 7/9/2018 at 5:57 PM, Kohsamida said:

I can see how you might take his attitude to be somewhat arrogant but it usually seems to be when he is dispelling myths perpetrated by those hucksters spewing pseudo-science purely for commercial gain, or when talking about organizations like the American Diabetes Association that make claims that Diabetes is absolutely not reversible, and advises those with Diabetes to accept that they will have to take medications for life in order to keep their diabetes in check. 

 

The American Diabetes Associations claim is false! However, big pharma companies make millions if not billions of dollars of profit from the sale of  diabetes drugs like Insulin and Metformin.  They are well equipped to protect those profits through powerful lobbying and by funding biased studies to support their claims, so yeah, he gets a little heated when he talks about certain subjects for sure.

 

When he speaks about diabetes, perhaps he doesn't make it clear enough that he's not claiming that ALL diabetes can be cured, and I don't think he means "cure"  in the traditional sense, but rather "reversal" of many of the effects.  

 

I think the point he is making is that many people develop diabetes simply because of too much carbohydrates in their diet, WAY too much, and that by cutting the carbs down significantly, much of the effects of diabetes can be reversed.  And, unbiased, science-based studies seem to support his views.

 

Of course many studies do not support his views but often, when you look at the source of support for those studies, there is good cause to suspect bias. 

 

I don't agree with everything he has to say, or that it applies to everybody, but he is an established kidney specialist working with people in a clinical setting with type-2 diabetes, and his approach seems to have a very high degree of success with his patients. 

 

The actual science behind his words is pretty solid for the most part, I think.  Of course, it's just my opinion.  Everybody has to decide for themselves what they believe to be right or wrong.

He knows what he is saying and currently there is no practical reliable cure for diabetes that I am aware of - the Newcastle studies were interesting but limited, beta cell transplants are not yet ready it seems etc. I am turned off by rude and arrogant people - contrast to with Dr Benard and Dr Ornish.

 

Now apparently pre diabetes and early diabetes can be treated very well with a low fat plant based diet - low carb is a short term tool.

 

I agree with most of what you say but gain it may be a matter of semantics but I don't agree with everything in your post.

 

Diabetes is apparently not caused by carbs it is caused by excess fat in the diet from my readings of current science - read Dr Benard as a start. I would guess that you have read him based on your extensive knwoledge. If not go for it also Dr Ornish and Dr Furman - they all speaking with the same voice.

 

Too many carbs is not good for us and processed carbs are bad - accepted.

[Kohsamida]

1 hour ago, TravelerEastWest said:

He knows what he is saying and currently there is no practical reliable cure for diabetes that I am aware of - the Newcastle studies were interesting but limited, beta cell transplants are not yet ready it seems etc. I am turned off by rude and arrogant people - contrast to with Dr Benard and Dr Ornish.

 

Now apparently pre diabetes and early diabetes can be treated very well with a low fat plant based diet - low carb is a short term tool.

 

I agree with most of what you say but gain it may be a matter of semantics but I don't agree with everything in your post.

 

Diabetes is apparently not caused by carbs it is caused by excess fat in the diet from my readings of current science - read Dr Benard as a start. I would guess that you have read him based on your extensive knwoledge. If not go for it also Dr Ornish and Dr Furman - they all speaking with the same voice.

 

Too many carbs is not good for us and processed carbs are bad - accepted.

And I too agree with much of what you say.  I have huge respect for the people you mentioned.  I think the issue is simply there are no “right” answers right now.  There’s too much that is simply unknown about how nutrition is related to disease, and every person is unique.

 

How nutrition effects health often depends on the individual.  A year ago my MD told me I had high blood pressure (180/130)and was pre-diabetic.  He put me on Statins for the blood pressure and Metformin, and grimly told me, in an almost matter of fact way, that I’d probably be needing to take insulin in the future!  

 

He did not council me on diet modification at all; his response was simply to pull out his Rx pad.

 

The prescription  barely put a dent in things and it wasn’t until I took charge of my health by trying to understand how my condition might be related to nutrition that things began to change, and change they did, and in a dramatic way, by simply eliminating processed sugar, table salt, and switching to a plant-based diet.

 

Literally, it was only a matter of weeks until my blood pressure dropped into the normal range, as did my blood glucose when it was tested again, and I no longer take any Rx meds.

 

To say that carbs were responsible is a misnomer.  Not all carbs are the same.  Carbs derived from fruit, for instance, are significantly different than carbs derived from processed snack foods.

 

I’m not saying that Fung’s concept of fasting results in a cure for Diabetes, and neither is he.  Rather, it is a first phase application to address “Metabolic Syndrome” and an over-abundance of the wrong carbs in a diet will lead to over production of insulin, and eventually insulin insensitivity, which results in the liver’s inability to mobilize fat.  

 

There is is a scientific correlation between excess dietary carbs and insulin production.  There is not a correlation between dietary fat and insulin production.  In fact, insulin release is almost completely unresponsive to fat in the diet.  That’s not to say that excess dietary fat is not bad for you, but in terms of negative effects on the liver which is really what diabetes is all about, carbs are the culprit in many studies.

 

Even though there’s a huge debate about all of this in the scientific community, both excess dietary fat and carbs probably play a role.

 

Fasting is simply a kick-start to address this, and Fung has a track record of success with this approach in the patient population he specializes in, which is mainly older and morbidly obese individuals.

 

Perhaps the word “cure” overstates things, but the real key to avoiding Metabolic Syndrome, and to a certain extent, reversing the effects is simply to modify your diet for many people, not all, but many.  

 

Today, there are record numbers of children that are being diagnosed with type-2 diabetes.  That was unheard of 50 years ago!  I think it’s no coincidence that this timeframe matches up pretty much with the advent of junk foods and the fast food industry, and bad carbs plus animal fats are central to both.

 

The big debates these days is whether excess carbs or fat are the basis for Metabolic Syndrome, and the fact is probably that both play a significant role.

 

There should be no debate however that nutrition is key to avoiding, and to a certain extent, reversing the effects of Metabolic-related diseaeses such as type-2 Diabetes.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Kohsamida

[TravelerEastWest]

5 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

"And I too agree with much of what you say.  I have huge respect for the people you mentioned.  I think the issue is simply there are no “right” answers right now.  There’s too much that is simply unknown about how nutrition is related to disease, and every person is unique."

I politely disagree - I think the current science is clear that fat basically clogs up the cell receptors which causes insulin resistance which leads to diabetes.

 

Each person is special and a uniqure person but physically we are fairly similar in general - always rare exceptions...

 

I am not a scientist but the studies that are not meat, egg, dairy funded point towards fat as the primary cause. I rely on the doctors already mentioned.

 

I do have a friend who is an experienced scientist/specialist doctor and he says that the science is leaning towards fat being the root cause. I mention him as he is calm/detached and interested in the subject.

 

I think Dr Fung is going in a different direction; not plant based, not overly concerned about fat etc. The good thing about him is his ideas about using fasting as a tool.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

 

 

 

 

 

[Kohsamida]

49 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

I politely disagree - I think the current science is clear that fat basically clogs up the cell receptors which causes insulin resistance which leads to diabetes.

 

Each person is special and a uniqure person but physically we are fairly similar in general - always rare exceptions...

 

I am not a scientist but the studies that are not meat, egg, dairy funded point towards fat as the primary cause. I rely on the doctors already mentioned.

 

I do have a friend who is an experienced scientist/specialist doctor and he says that the science is leaning towards fat being the root cause. I mention him as he is calm/detached and interested in the subject.

 

I think Dr Fung is going in a different direction; not plant based, not overly concerned about fat etc. The good thing about him is his ideas about using fasting as a tool.

 

 

 

I kind of agree with you that Fung places most emphasis on fasting and not so much on plant-based nutrition, but you have to take into account the type of patients he's dealing with in his practice; they are older, morbidly obese patients with diabetes for the most part.  He is, after, a nephrologist so he's dealing with people with life threatening kidney issues, not the general population.

 

There are two schools of thought when it comes to exogenous fat vs carbs when it comes to liver disease.  On the one hand you have highly respected people like Furman and Barnard, and then you have people like Volek and Phinney, also highly respected researchers who take an opposing view. 

 

Personally I find the research on both fronts to be fascinating but I think the real answers will ultimately be from both camps.  I mean, nothing this complex is ever black & white, wouldn't you say?

 

When it comers to real world applications, I just think the best thing is to take what they all have to say and fashion your own version of a healthy lifestyle rather than simply accept one school of thought over the other as dogma. 

 

What more can you really do until the answers are really known for sure?  I'm guessing we can probably agree on that.

 

You sound like a pretty intelligent guy.  I like these kind of discussions that are based on science, not pseudo-science.  It's a pleasure debating this with you ?

 

Oh, and just so you know, I've been reading a lot from Barnard's books and journal pubs lately, and it's pretty impressive stuff for sure. It's definitely making me re-think a lot of things . ?

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by Kohsamida

[TravelerEastWest]

Thank you for the Volek and Phinney names I have not read their works - I shall take a look. actually I think I need to consider buying a Kindle as I like to quickly read health books when I learn of a new writer. But I prefer the old style paper books very much.

 

I am not very intelligent about biology but I am under the influence of Ornish, Bernard, Furhman and Gregor and that general school of thought. They write clearly and in a way that is easy to understand.

 

I am very fascinated with the whole subject of health.

 

I have had type 2 diabetes for more than 20 years and my doctors always mentioned exercise and diet but just in a casual way. During the last 10 months or so I have been experimenting with fasting and a low fat diet and I have reduced my insulin resistance by perhaps 50%. I had a mild case of high blood pressure it cleared up quickly.

 

Exercise works very well but is just one piece of the puzzle. With only very, very rare exceptions I think exercise works for everyone. 

 

"nothing this complex is ever black & white, "

 

True - but I think that on many levels (some which are moral) a plant based diet is far and away best for health.

 

The fat issue seems to be clear, but yes there is disagreement in the scientific community - but I am not sure that the diagreement is valid - lots of industry money infuencing studies as you know.

 

Currently I am trying a very low fat diet as in no nuts or seeds or oils. I have around 10 pounds of fat to lose then I will see how that changes my insulin resistance.

[balo]

23 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Currently I am trying a very low fat diet as in no nuts

 

Good , but consider one or two brazil nuts per day .  It can do wonders. 

 

"Enjoying just one to two Brazil nuts per day can be all you need — and even work better than a supplement — to maintain a healthy level of selenium in your body"

 

"Nutritional benefits of Brazil nuts. Brazil nuts are largely a monounsaturated fat, which is a good fat, but they also contain some protein as well as being a good source of important nutrients including magnesium, zinc, calcium, vitamin E and some B vitamins."

 

 

[Kohsamida]

1 hour ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Thank you for the Volek and Phinney names I have not read their works - I shall take a look. actually I think I need to consider buying a Kindle as I like to quickly read health books when I learn of a new writer. But I prefer the old style paper books very much.

 

I am not very intelligent about biology but I am under the influence of Ornish, Bernard, Furhman and Gregor and that general school of thought. They write clearly and in a way that is easy to understand.

 

I am very fascinated with the whole subject of health.

 

I have had type 2 diabetes for more than 20 years and my doctors always mentioned exercise and diet but just in a casual way. During the last 10 months or so I have been experimenting with fasting and a low fat diet and I have reduced my insulin resistance by perhaps 50%. I had a mild case of high blood pressure it cleared up quickly.

 

Exercise works very well but is just one piece of the puzzle. With only very, very rare exceptions I think exercise works for everyone. 

 

"nothing this complex is ever black & white, "

 

True - but I think that on many levels (some which are moral) a plant based diet is far and away best for health.

 

The fat issue seems to be clear, but yes there is disagreement in the scientific community - but I am not sure that the diagreement is valid - lots of industry money infuencing studies as you know.

 

Currently I am trying a very low fat diet as in no nuts or seeds or oils. I have around 10 pounds of fat to lose then I will see how that changes my insulin resistance.

Out of all the people you mentioned I think Greger is the best for "real world" health information.  I like how he never advocates something without firmly backing up his view with REAL science. 

 

He's remarkably transparent and unbiased.  When there might be two opposing views on something, he explores them thouroughly.  His topics on YouTube are usually so on-the-mark, you can't help but watch them, and I sort of get a kick out of his halting style of speaking when he wants to emphasize something.  ?

 

His book, "How Not To Die" really had a profound effect on me, and is probably the main reason I started seriously exploring plant-based nutrition.  That book is a real game-changer!

 

To be honest, the more I learn about plant-based nutrition, the more issues I have with Volek and Phinney but they still have some pretty intriguing things to say so well worth learning what they have to say. 

 

There's no question in my mind now that plant-based is the way to go.  The jury is still out in my mind whether it is the fat or excessive protein in meat that's bad for you, but eliminating, or at least reducing meat from your diet makes that question moot. 

 

I'm still concerned about excessive carbs but now I don't think it's necessarily the amount of carbohydrates you consume, but rather the type.  I mean, I see no issues with fructose from fruits, whereas sugar in most processed foods is a real issue.

 

The thing I like about fasting is it resets my body.  I mean, I do it because I believe it causes autophagy, but when I say "reset", what I've noticed is that after a fast, I seem to have an aversion for "bad" foods. 

 

It's strange.  I don't understand why, but it seems to happen.  It kind of makes me think that the body has an innate ability to know what's good and bad for it, and that heavily processed foods can screw that up somehow.

 

I dunno...it's all fascinating to me, and I think we're lucky because we live in a time when huge breakthroughs are occurring in our understanding of how nutrition really effects health.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Kohsamida

[Bonobojt]

well I couldn't finish the 3 day Water Fast, I gave in to temptations, I manged 1 and a half days, but it was my first time trying so I won't be too hard on myself, and like I have mentioned before, I'm a skinny guy, I just wanted to rest my gut. I think I will do a 1 day fast once a week now though, maybe every Sunday, just drink water.

 

today I went grocery shopping which I love doing, and had a delicious lunch of wholemeal pitta bread stuffed with black beans, potato, garlic, cayenne pepper, ginger and fresh basil leaves, I love food and plant based foods, wish it was easier to be plant based cheaply in Thailand as I'll be there a while soon, shame I'll probably go back to the meat and eggs.