Plant Based Nutrition and Fasting

[tfc]

I've just recently found out about what a scientific research group call "the paleolithic-ketogenic diet" for curing type 1 diabetes.  Apart from the information on the site I can't add any personal experience with their very specific and strict diet as I haven't tried it.  I do find the information on their site very interesting though and so far (just from my own investigation) their studies, research and findings seem to be legitimate and are peer reviewed. 

 

https://www.paleomedicina.com/en/a-child-with-type-1-diabetes-mellitus-t1dm-successfully-treated-with-the paleolithic-ketogenic-diet-a-19-months-insulin-freedom

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285152979_A_child_with_type_1_diabetes_mellitus_T1DM_successfully_treated_with_the_Paleolithic_ketogenic_diet_A_19-month_insulin_freedom

 

As for me I've been intermittent fasting using the one meal a day protocol for coming up to 8 years now, not for weight loss but for the energy and focus gains which have been immense.  I know it doesn't work for everyone because a fair few of my friends have tried it (6-12+ months) and didn't get the same shift between grehlin/leptin but for myself its been great in sustaining the goals that I wanted to achieve. 

[Kohsamida]

1 hour ago, Bonobojt said:

well I couldn't finish the 3 day Water Fast, I gave in to temptations, I manged 1 and a half day...

Nice!  Congrats.  It takes a lot of will power just getting thru 1 day, and the thing is, the next time you try, it will be easier.  Your body acclimates to it.  Not a bad idea doing a 24 hour fast once a week.  I bet that stuffed pita tasted mighty good today ?

 

Are you coming to Chiang Mai? If so, you’ll find it dirt cheap eating plant-based here.  So many inexpensive places to eat and buy fresh foods, and some of the best fruit you’ll find anywhere.  Check out YouTube videos on vegan restaurants and produce markets here.  You’ll be amazed.

[Bonobojt]

7 minutes ago, Kohsamida said:

Nice!  Congrats.  It takes a lot of will power just getting thru 1 day, and the thing is, the next time you try, it will be easier.  Your body acclimates to it.  Not a bad idea doing a 24 hour fast once a week.  I bet that stuffed pita tasted mighty good today ?

 

Are you coming to Chiang Mai? If so, you’ll find it dirt cheap eating plant-based here.  So many inexpensive places to eat and buy fresh foods, and some of the best fruit you’ll find anywhere.  Check out YouTube videos on vegan restaurants and produce markets here.  You’ll be amazed.

I might come to Chiang Mai, not sure yet as the nightlife is a bit boring for me personally but I've been before and it is indeed heaven for vegans and vegetarians,  I also hear Koh Phangan has a lot of vegan restaurants but not sure how cheap it is, I love the vegan restaurants that are on the cheaper side.

[Antonymous]

1 hour ago, Bonobojt said:

well I couldn't finish the 3 day Water Fast, I gave in to temptations, I manged 1 and a half days, but it was my first time trying so I won't be too hard on myself, and like I have mentioned before, I'm a skinny guy, I just wanted to rest my gut. I think I will do a 1 day fast once a week now though, maybe every Sunday, just drink water.

 

today I went grocery shopping which I love doing, and had a delicious lunch of wholemeal pitta bread stuffed with black beans, potato, garlic, cayenne pepper, ginger and fresh basil leaves, I love food and plant based foods, wish it was easier to be plant based cheaply in Thailand as I'll be there a while soon, shame I'll probably go back to the meat and eggs. 

I'm having a little chuckle at your lack of progress bonobojt. Just like my wife when I first introduced her to fasting. She was complaining of terrible hunger pangs 30 minutes into the first day! She managed only until dinner time on that first fast. Thais seem to suffer the psychological strain more than westerners. She overcame her weakness eventually and can now manage extended fasts with ease.

 

It is in your head. I can assure you absolutely that it gets easier the second and subsequent fasts once you have actually hit a target, such as a three day fast. The next time you do a 3-day fast you'll already know that you survived the last time!

 

I have done so many fasts over the years that I genuinely don't notice anything when I'm on one now. I prepare myself for a couple of days before by eating less food than normal and more juices, then just stop eating...and I carry on doing everything I was before EXCEPT that I cut out rigorous exercise and stick to gentler exercise for the duration.

 

Good luck the next time. The benefits of a water fast come from three days up in my experience and with a Master Cleanse (which is a semi fast) a minimum of 7 days, optimal 14 days.

 

 

[VincentRJ]

On 7/10/2018 at 6:49 PM, Bonobojt said:

I think I'm gonna appreciate food a lot of more after this ! lol the smells, the colors, the tastes, everything !

Thanks for the feed-back, Bono. I take it you have now finished your fast, or did you progress beyond 3 days? (Oops! I missed the last few posts. I see you broke your fast early. Nevertheless, the rest of my post is relevant.)

The desire for food and the pleasure of its taste is the main stumbling block in fasting. I think most people just find it too difficult to deprive the senses of that continual pleasure, which is usually experienced several times each day.

 

The longest fast I've completed is 4 days, on a couple of occasions. Most of my fasts are usually just 2 to 3 days, taking nothing but water. Surprisingly, at the end of both 4 day fasts I was not experiencing any uncomfortable hunger pangs and felt I could easily have continued, but decided not to because I had certain commitments which required some work and expenditure of energy. This is another stumbling block.

 

One part of my normal diet, which I think has helped me to overcome the discomfort of hunger pangs during fasting, is Saffron. I began taking Saffron after coming across scientific research, involving double-blind placebo tests, which indicated that regular intake of Saffron improved eyesight and reduced the onset of macular degeneration. 
However, I later discovered, when searching the internet for the best price for Saffron filaments, that Saffron capsules, containing extracts of the effective ingredients, were also being used by many people to reduce appetite rather than improve eyesight; in other words, to help them lose weight.

 

Losing weight wasn't my purpose in taking Saffron, but I think it's reasonable to assume that it would have made it easier for me to fast, even though I don't take anything except water when I fast.
 

[Kohsamida]

11 hours ago, Bonobojt said:

I might come to Chiang Mai, not sure yet as the nightlife is a bit boring for me personally but I've been before and it is indeed heaven for vegans and vegetarians,  I also hear Koh Phangan has a lot of vegan restaurants but not sure how cheap it is, I love the vegan restaurants that are on the cheaper side.

Islands are pretty expensive compared to CM.  I don’t think anywhere is as cheap to live as CM, especially if you like eating well.

[Kohsamida]

3 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Thanks for the feed-back, Bono. I take it you have now finished your fast, or did you progress beyond 3 days? (Oops! I missed the last few posts. I see you broke your fast early. Nevertheless, the rest of my post is relevant.)

The desire for food and the pleasure of its taste is the main stumbling block in fasting. I think most people just find it too difficult to deprive the senses of that continual pleasure, which is usually experienced several times each day.

 

The longest fast I've completed is 4 days, on a couple of occasions. Most of my fasts are usually just 2 to 3 days, taking nothing but water. Surprisingly, at the end of both 4 day fasts I was not experiencing any uncomfortable hunger pangs and felt I could easily have continued, but decided not to because I had certain commitments which required some work and expenditure of energy. This is another stumbling block.

 

One part of my normal diet, which I think has helped me to overcome the discomfort of hunger pangs during fasting, is Saffron. I began taking Saffron after coming across scientific research, involving double-blind placebo tests, which indicated that regular intake of Saffron improved eyesight and reduced the onset of macular degeneration. 
However, I later discovered, when searching the internet for the best price for Saffron filaments, that Saffron capsules, containing extracts of the effective ingredients, were also being used by many people to reduce appetite rather than improve eyesight; in other words, to help them lose weight.

 

Losing weight wasn't my purpose in taking Saffron, but I think it's reasonable to assume that it would have made it easier for me to fast, even though I don't take anything except water when I fast.
 

I think the “sweet spot” for water fasting is really 3-5 days for most people looking for the general health benefits of a fast.  I’ve done a couple of 7 day fasts mainly out of curiosity, and as has been said by others, it wasn’t that difficult since my body was already acclimated to fasting.  However, the main thing I didn’t like about 7 days is that in both instances, there was a noticeable recovery time I wasn’t too thrilled about.

 

What I mean is that, in both cases, it seemed like it took about a week before I could undertake rigorous physical activities comfortably (mountain biking).  It on,y seems to take a day to recover from a 3 day fast for me.

 

In other words, the recovery time was not linear between a 3 day fast and a 7 day fast.  It makes me think that a 7 day fast may just be too long for “optimal” results.

 

Everybody is different so I’m just speaking for myself but I think most of the health benefits of a water fast happen in 3-5 days, and after that, it’s just diminishing returns.

 

Just my personal view, I have nothing scientific to back that up.

[Kohsamida]

12 hours ago, tfc said:

....As for me I've been intermittent fasting using the one meal a day protocol ...

I think there’s a lot to be said for one meal a day.  I think it’s a myth that you need 3 square meals a day, or worse, the idea that you should eat smaller but more frequent meals throughout the day, as many as 5 or 6 meals a day, as promoted by some pseudo-science fitness and health “guru’s”.

 

There’s an obesity and a diabetes-2 epidemic right now, and worse, it’s happening in young children, which was almost unheard of 50 years ago, in the case of Diabetes.  

 

Their diets consists of eating constantly from the time they wake up to the time they go to sleep, consisting not only of regular meals  but in-between meal snacks, with a high percentage of it being in the form of “junk” food.  Worse, the food industry promotes in-between meal snacks as being healthy and beneficial!

 

Their bodies are therefore constantly releasing massive amounts of insulin 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  Is it any wonder they’re developing diabetes at such young ages?

 

One meal a day, properly timed, can fuel your body adequately throughout the day  for most people, and if you’re very active, by supplementing with some additional carbs before and during the activity.

[balo]

I agree on one meal a day is possible , but you need to be careful about the blood sugar levels. 

I prefer to start the day I eat less with oat porridge , mixed with natural yoghurt and frozen berries.   Then I can live on that during the day , light snacks like an apple , a carrot will keep the hunger away . Also I do drink fresh coffee and I take my ginseng capsules so my brain is awake and alert . 

This works for me and I am sure I could do this every day if needed. 

It means less than 1000 calories or up to 1500 calories. 

 

   

 

 

[TravelerEastWest]

23 hours ago, balo said:

 

Good , but consider one or two brazil nuts per day .  It can do wonders. 

 

"Enjoying just one to two Brazil nuts per day can be all you need — and even work better than a supplement — to maintain a healthy level of selenium in your body"

 

"Nutritional benefits of Brazil nuts. Brazil nuts are largely a monounsaturated fat, which is a good fat, but they also contain some protein as well as being a good source of important nutrients including magnesium, zinc, calcium, vitamin E and some B vitamins."

 

 

Thank you for your suggestion but I am trying to eat a very low fat diet to help with diabetes and possible heart disease.

 

I take a multi vitamin daily and eat organic fruits and vegetables from my garden as the main part of my diet.

[Kohsamida]

1 hour ago, balo said:

I agree on one meal a day is possible , but you need to be careful about the blood sugar levels. 

I prefer to start the day I eat less with oat porridge , mixed with natural yoghurt and frozen berries.   Then I can live on that during the day , light snacks like an apple , a carrot will keep the hunger away . Also I do drink fresh coffee and I take my ginseng capsules so my brain is awake and alert . 

This works for me and I am sure I could do this every day if needed. 

It means less than 1000 calories or up to 1500 calories. 

 

   

 

 

Totally agree.  I didn't mean to say strictly one meal and one meal only.  I guess more appropriate to say one "main" meal where you know you're getting the bulk of your macronutrients in the proper amounts, and then fill the day out with "good" snacks like fruit depending on how you feel or how demanding your activities are. 

 

I try to think of food simply as fuel.  Of course, thinking about it that way and living that way are two entirely different things LOL!

 

Personally I like to have a smoothie of bananas and various fruit and something green, along with chia seeds and ground up flax seeds in it to start the day, and of course coffee!  So glad they're finally saying coffee might actually be healthy for you, but whether it is or not, I have to have my cup in the morning ?. 

 

Off topic but, I LOVE good coffee, and for anyone living in Chiang Mai I know the best place to buy coffee beans now.  It took me months to finally find a good place.  It is Hilkoff Coffee; their own brand, "Black Thai" is amazing if you are into rich robust beans.

 

When I live in colder climes I also love starting the day with hot oatmeal and fruit...so good ?. 

 

I usually have my main meal late afternoon or early evening (mainly for social reasons) but no later than 7pm.  Ideally I'm guessing it should be earlier, like lunchtime for a main meal so that you fuel yourself for the day, and pretty much use up your glycogen stores while sleeping, but I can't do that (again for social reason and I just don't feel hungry until late afternoon).

[Bonobojt]

I personally think One Meal a Day is not for me, maybe another fad diet, also life is short, I want to enjoy it before I die, and eating is enjoyable, 3 healthy meals a day of plant based foods is perfectly healthy, feeds your gut bacteria, its enjoyable, its social, it makes us happy, lets us get enough calories in the day, but hey I've only seen 1 YouTube video about it, haven't done any research on OMAD, but I think its just another new idea health guru's have come up with to get attention and views on the internet 

[TravelerEastWest]

2 minutes ago, Bonobojt said:

I personally think One Meal a Day is not for me, maybe another fad diet, also life is short, I want to enjoy it before I die, and eating is enjoyable, 3 healthy meals a day of plant based foods is perfectly healthy, feeds your gut bacteria, its enjoyable, its social, it makes us happy, lets us get enough calories in the day, but hey I've only seen 1 YouTube video about it, haven't done any research on OMAD, but I think its just another new idea health guru's have come up with to get attention and views on the internet 

I halfway agree with you:

 

1) 3 meals a day is fine if plant based and fresh etc...

 

2) But there may be health benefits to two or even one meal a day.

 

So this is a personal choice eat well and maybe have a shorter life?

[Kohsamida]

9 minutes ago, Bonobojt said:

I personally think One Meal a Day is not for me, maybe another fad diet, also life is short, I want to enjoy it before I die, and eating is enjoyable, 3 healthy meals a day of plant based foods is perfectly healthy, feeds your gut bacteria, its enjoyable, its social, it makes us happy, lets us get enough calories in the day, but hey I've only seen 1 YouTube video about it, haven't done any research on OMAD, but I think its just another new idea health guru's have come up with to get attention and views on the internet 

I agree that it's a personal decision.  And I agree that a lot of "guru's" have jumped on the bandwagon touting the idea to get a following, but there actually is a lot of science that validates the idea, or to put it another way, validates the idea that eating too often can be bad for you, especially for those who can't go for more than an hour without something in their mouth.  But, yeah, everybody has to decide what's best for them.

[Bonobojt]

4 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

I halfway agree with you:

 

1) 3 meals a day is fine if plant based and fresh etc...

 

2) But there may be health benefits to two or even one meal a day.

 

So this is a personal choice eat well and maybe have a shorter life?

I'm aware that there are studies that indicate that people who eat lower calorie diets may live longer and age better, can't remember the details, but yes when it comes to food everything is a personal choice.

 

I remember back when the world health organization came out and said processed meat like bacon and ham and sausages increased our risk of cancer and labeled it a type 1 carcinogen, but my dad continued to eat bacon, and my sister asked him about it and he said its a personal choice, he enjoys eating sausages and bacon and meat. 

 

Food is very personal to humans, that's why people get mad sometimes when vegans tell them to go vegan,  its a personal choice indeed, whether it gives you shorter life or longer, I'd rather eat the 3 meals a day and have a shorter life.

[Kohsamida]

10 minutes ago, Bonobojt said:

I'm aware that there are studies that indicate that people who eat lower calorie diets may live longer and age better, can't remember the details, but yes when it comes to food everything is a personal choice.

 

I remember back when the world health organization came out and said processed meat like bacon and ham and sausages increased our risk of cancer and labeled it a type 1 carcinogen, but my dad continued to eat bacon, and my sister asked him about it and he said its a personal choice, he enjoys eating sausages and bacon and meat. 

 

Food is very personal to humans, that's why people get mad sometimes when vegans tell them to go vegan,  its a personal choice indeed, whether it gives you shorter life or longer, I'd rather eat the 3 meals a day and have a shorter life.

You're right; in the end, it's all about being happy.  It makes no sense to follow guidelines that may add a few years to your life but be unhappy in the process.  I don't think you have to be 100% about any of this stuff to have a healthy lifestyle.  Besides, more often than not, if you pay attention, your body will tell you what's right for you, and if that's 3 meals a day, so be it ?

[Bonobojt]

8 minutes ago, Kohsamida said:

You're right; in the end, it's all about being happy.  It makes no sense to follow guidelines that may add a few years to your life but be unhappy in the process.  I don't think you have to be 100% about any of this stuff to have a healthy lifestyle.

exactly, do whats best for you, don't follow the crowd, and most importantly do what makes you happy....

but of course that doesn't mean we shouldn't educate people about plant based diets, as animal agriculture is destroying the planet so its kind an important subject. Educate the public, be truthful and let them decide what to eat.  

[Kohsamida]

12 minutes ago, Bonobojt said:

exactly, do whats best for you, don't follow the crowd, and most importantly do what makes you happy....

but of course that doesn't mean we shouldn't educate people about plant based diets, as animal agriculture is destroying the planet so its kind an important subject. Educate the public, be truthful and let them decide what to eat.  

Exactly the way I feel too!  Just being aware of the real science behind nutrition instead of the BS that's spewed by all the so-called Gurus is so important. 

 

That's why I wanted to start this thread so that people could share what they know, debate different points of view, and learn from each other, while trying to keep everything as science-based as possible. 

 

It's not so much about knowing the right answer as it is being able to recognize the obviously wrong ones, and if you can do that by being informed, you're already way ahead of the game. 

 

And yeah, eating is one of the GREAT pleasures in life!

[balo]

I would think in the future, lets say 100 years from now , there will not be a lot of meat eaters on this planet.  Not saying the Vegans will win the war but people will be more educated in what to eat and what to avoid .   Also growing more veggies, fruits, and corn as long as the planet is working, and we can avoid major climate changes  seems like a better idea than keeping livestocks of animals when the risks of catching diseases are there .   

 

Maybe the future science will change , so we all know what to eat and how much . 

 

  

 

 

[VincentRJ]

6 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

I think there’s a lot to be said for one meal a day.  I think it’s a myth that you need 3 square meals a day, or worse, the idea that you should eat smaller but more frequent meals throughout the day, as many as 5 or 6 meals a day, as promoted by some pseudo-science fitness and health “guru’s”.

 

There’s an obesity and a diabetes-2 epidemic right now, and worse, it’s happening in young children, which was almost unheard of 50 years ago, in the case of Diabetes.  

 

Their diets consists of eating constantly from the time they wake up to the time they go to sleep, consisting not only of regular meals  but in-between meal snacks, with a high percentage of it being in the form of “junk” food.  Worse, the food industry promotes in-between meal snacks as being healthy and beneficial!

 

Their bodies are therefore constantly releasing massive amounts of insulin 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  Is it any wonder they’re developing diabetes at such young ages?

 

One meal a day, properly timed, can fuel your body adequately throughout the day  for most people, and if you’re very active, by supplementing with some additional carbs before and during the activity.

I agree. The notion that we need 3 square meals a day is ridiculous when you consider that the citizens of those great ancient empires of Greece and Rome which were so successful, ate only one meal per day, either at noon or later in the day.
If there were a breakfast in the morning, it would be no more than a very small snack, like a fig or two and a biscuit.
People often repudiate this argument because they've read stories of the ancient Roman upper classes who were renowned for excessive indulgence during banquets. However, the upper classes were a minority. The people who did the physical work and the soldiers who successfully won many battles, ate just one meal a day.

 

From the following article at: http://www.theiflife.com/wisdom-day-meal-frequency/

"Dr. Felix Oswald says that “during the zenith period of Grecian and Roman civilization monogamy was not as firmly established as the rule that a health-loving man should content himself with one meal a day, and never eat till he had leisure to digest, i.e., not till the day’s work was wholly done.
For more than a thousand years the one meal plan was the established rule among the civilized nations inhabiting the coast-lands of the Mediterranean.
The evening repast–call it supper or dinner–was a kind of domestic festival, the reward of the day’s toil, an enjoyment which rich and poor refrained from marring by premature gratifications of their appetites.”

"Dr. Oswald says: “For more than a thousand years the one-meal system was the rule in two countries that could raise armies of men every one of whom would have made his fortune as a modern athlete–men who marched for days under a load of iron (besides clothes and provisions) that would stagger a modern porter.”
He also says, “The Romans of the Republican age broke their fast with a biscuit and a fig or two, and took their principle meal in the cool of the evening.”
Among the many things that have been offered as an explanation for their physical, mental and moral decline has been their sensuous indulgence in food which came with power and riches."

 

I'm now in the habit of eating just one full meal a day in the evening. My breakfast usually consists of just two cups of coffee with milk and sugar, although sometimes I have just a glass of water instead. Occasionally I have two meals, one at lunch time, but no more. My lunch meal is basically a delayed, traditional breakfast consisting of whole grain oats, All Bran and Wheat Germ, all soaked in full cream milk, with some whole fruit such as blueberries and/or bananas or papayas added. I grow my own bananas and papayas.

 

What's interesting is, I can work all day in my large garden (5 acres), pushing a large wheel barrow, slashing grass, cutting down trees, and so on, without eating a breakfast or lunch. My evening meal is one of the rewards for my labour, plus a glass of Shiraz as I watch television or write posts like this on the internet. ?

 

I'm retired, approaching the age of 76. No health problems yet.
 

[Bonobojt]

1 minute ago, balo said:

I would think in the future, lets say 100 years from now , there will not be a lot of meat eaters on this planet.  Not saying the Vegans will win the war but people will be more educated in what to eat and what to avoid .   Also growing more veggies, fruits, and corn as long as the planet is working, and we can avoid major climate changes  seems like a better idea than keeping livestocks of animals when the risks of catching diseases are there .   

 

Maybe the future science will change , so we all know what to eat and how much . 

 

  

 

 

I agree, we can't keep eating meat, dairy, eggs like we are now forever, human population is growing, factory farming will have to stop at some point, we will run out of land to grow crops to feed to the Billions and Billions of livestock eventually. Unfortunately humans like to wait a while before taking action, same with plastic, only now we are starting to do things about it like banning straws and plastic bags in some countries etc.. but we should of done that years ago. Lab grown meat will happen and plant based diets will get more and more popular, we can all agree its slowly getting bigger and bigger each year, as my favorite animal rights activist Gary Yourofsky said, Injustice can't last forever.

 

 

 

 

[Kohsamida]

15 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

I agree. The notion that we need 3 square meals a day is ridiculous when you consider that the citizens of those great ancient empires of Greece and Rome which were so successful, ate only one meal per day, either at noon or later in the day.
If there were a breakfast in the morning, it would be no more than a very small snack, like a fig or two and a biscuit.
People often repudiate this argument because they've read stories of the ancient Roman upper classes who were renowned for excessive indulgence during banquets. However, the upper classes were a minority. The people who did the physical work and the soldiers who successfully won many battles, ate just one meal a day.

 

From the following article at: http://www.theiflife.com/wisdom-day-meal-frequency/

"Dr. Felix Oswald says that “during the zenith period of Grecian and Roman civilization monogamy was not as firmly established as the rule that a health-loving man should content himself with one meal a day, and never eat till he had leisure to digest, i.e., not till the day’s work was wholly done.
For more than a thousand years the one meal plan was the established rule among the civilized nations inhabiting the coast-lands of the Mediterranean.
The evening repast–call it supper or dinner–was a kind of domestic festival, the reward of the day’s toil, an enjoyment which rich and poor refrained from marring by premature gratifications of their appetites.”

"Dr. Oswald says: “For more than a thousand years the one-meal system was the rule in two countries that could raise armies of men every one of whom would have made his fortune as a modern athlete–men who marched for days under a load of iron (besides clothes and provisions) that would stagger a modern porter.”
He also says, “The Romans of the Republican age broke their fast with a biscuit and a fig or two, and took their principle meal in the cool of the evening.”
Among the many things that have been offered as an explanation for their physical, mental and moral decline has been their sensuous indulgence in food which came with power and riches."

 

I'm now in the habit of eating just one full meal a day in the evening. My breakfast usually consists of just two cups of coffee with milk and sugar, although sometimes I have just a glass of water instead. Occasionally I have two meals, one at lunch time, but no more. My lunch meal is basically a delayed, traditional breakfast consisting of whole grain oats, All Bran and Wheat Germ, all soaked in full cream milk, with some whole fruit such as blueberries and/or bananas or papayas added. I grow my own bananas and papayas.

 

What's interesting is, I can work all day in my large garden (5 acres), pushing a large wheel barrow, slashing grass, cutting down trees, and so on, without eating a breakfast or lunch. My evening meal is one of the rewards for my labour, plus a glass of Shiraz as I watch television or write posts like this on the internet. ?

 

I'm retired, approaching the age of 76. No health problems yet.
 

On the evolutionary scale, the concept of "3 squares a day" has only existed for maybe a hundred years if that.  Don't forget, they didn't have the luxury of refrigerators, microwave ovens, super markets, and fast foods back then.  A single meal a day, if that, was probably the norm.  It just doesn't make common sense that there needs to be a daily schedule or set number of times to eat per day.  Eating when your body needs food makes the most sense, and your body is pretty good about letting you know when that is.

 

If people listened to their bodies instead of looking at their watch they'd probably be a lot better off.

 

[VincentRJ]

23 minutes ago, Kohsamida said:

On the evolutionary scale, the concept of "3 squares a day" has only existed for maybe a hundred years if that.  Don't forget, they didn't have the luxury of refrigerators, super markets, and fast foods back then.  A single meal a day, if that, was probably the norm.  It just doesn't make common sense that there needs to be a schedule or set number of times to eat.  Eating when your body needs food makes the most sense, and your body is pretty good about letting you know that.

 

Very true. As I understand, but nothing is certain, it's the use of fructose, from corn syrup, as an additive of most processed foods, that is a major problem. It's sweeter than cane sugar, and cheaper, so it's often used to enhance the taste of so many foods. However, the labels on processed food products do not specify fructose or sucrose, just sugar levels. Cane sugar also contains some fructose, but is mostly sucrose.

 

Fructose seems to have the quality of interfering with hormonal messages in the body which normally create the sensation of satiety when eating. Without that feeling of satiety, that one is full, one can keep on eating purely for the pleasurable taste, and become overweight or obese as a result.
 

[dontoearth]

On 7/6/2018 at 11:50 PM, evadgib said:

IF (intermittent fasting) is doing me the world of good at the rate of 3 x 24hrs per week. I'm not veggie and find 'chicken water' (veggies in boiled chicken juice with a little meat) extremely helpful while doing so. The kilos are falling off ?

    Could you tell us more about your technique?  I do IF by skipping breakfast and this gives me a smaller window of time to eat.  I just do lunch and dinner.  This was very successful for me helping me take off about 16 Kilos.  However, the effect stopped some months ago and I am considering changing methods as i would like to loose 5 to 7 more kilos.  I been considering 3 day water fast and the OMAD (One meal a day) technique to continue.  

[Kohsamida]

1 hour ago, VincentRJ said:

Very true. As I understand, but nothing is certain, it's the use of fructose, from corn syrup, as an additive of most processed foods, that is a major problem. It's sweeter than cane sugar, and cheaper, so it's often used to enhance the taste of so many foods. However, the labels on processed food products do not specify fructose or sucrose, just sugar levels. Cane sugar also contains some fructose, but is mostly sucrose.

 

Fructose seems to have the quality of interfering with hormonal messages in the body which normally create the sensation of satiety when eating. Without that feeling of satiety, that one is full, one can keep on eating purely for the pleasurable taste, and become overweight or obese as a result.
 

With kind regards, I think what you are referring to is corn syrup that has been converted into commercially made fructose (high fructose corn syrup).  It's found in  practically all processed foods, especially sodas, desserts, and certain breakfast cereals.

 

Natural fructose on the other hand is found in fruit.  There are no health issues with natural fructose (in moderation of course), and surprisingly a lot of sceintifc as well as anecdotal evidence suggests this is true even for diabetics.  A lot of research is going on to figure out why this seems to be so.

 

But yeah I agree with what you said about HFCS, especially in the high concentrations found in sodas, desserts, and a lot of breakfast cereals.  Many prominent researchers feel so strongly about this to call it "poison" in the real sense of that word.  That is, unless their work is being funded by the food industries of course.

[dontoearth]

On 7/10/2018 at 7:49 PM, TravelerEastWest said:

He knows what he is saying and currently there is no practical reliable cure for diabetes that I am aware of - the Newcastle studies were interesting but limited, beta cell transplants are not yet ready it seems etc. I am turned off by rude and arrogant people - contrast to with Dr Benard and Dr Ornish.

 

Now apparently pre diabetes and early diabetes can be treated very well with a low fat plant based diet - low carb is a short term tool.

 

I agree with most of what you say but gain it may be a matter of semantics but I don't agree with everything in your post.

 

Diabetes is apparently not caused by carbs it is caused by excess fat in the diet from my readings of current science - read Dr Benard as a start. I would guess that you have read him based on your extensive knwoledge. If not go for it also Dr Ornish and Dr Furman - they all speaking with the same voice.

 

Too many carbs is not good for us and processed carbs are bad - accepted.

    Fung is discussing Type II diabetes.   Many people have found cures for Type II thru diets and exercise interventions of all sorts.  And every diet and exercise and life style intervention beats being on the endless drugs which lead to more diseases over time.  

[VincentRJ]

53 minutes ago, Kohsamida said:

With kind regards, I think what you are referring to is corn syrup that has been converted into commercially made fructose (high fructose corn syrup).  It's found in  practically all processed foods, especially sodas, desserts, and certain breakfast cereals.

 

Natural fructose on the other hand is found in fruit.  There are no health issues with natural fructose (in moderation of course), and surprisingly a lot of sceintifc as well as anecdotal evidence suggests this is true even for diabetics.  A lot of research is going on to figure out why this seems to be so.

 

But yeah I agree with what you said about HFCS, especially in the high concentrations found in sodas, desserts, and a lot of breakfast cereals.  Many prominent researchers feel so strongly about this to call it "poison" in the real sense of that word.  That is, unless their work is being funded by the food industries of course.

Yes, of course. When I wrote 'fructose from corn syrup', I did mean 'fructose as processed from corn syrup', known as HFCS.

 

Fructose is fructose, whether from fruit, or as processed from corn syrup. However, the fructose from whole fruit is accompanied by lots of fibre. Drinking lots of pure fruit juice, even though the label claims 'no artificial additives', might not be as healthy as one thinks because much of the fibre has been discarded, and one might be imbibing too much fructose.

 

How many apples would be needed to produce a litre of pure apple juice?  2kg perhaps? It would be easy to drink a litre of pure apple juice in a day, but would anyone eat 2kgs of whole apples in a day, in addition to their normal meals? ?
 

[Kohsamida]

On 7/9/2018 at 5:40 PM, TravelerEastWest said:

The doctors at True North suggest distilled water which is not expensive. 

 

Longer then three days water fasts - would be better to have medical supervision.

 

With that said I have done 7 and 8 day water fasts at home but I have a very simple plant based organic diet and have done short fasts before.

 

For me teh hunger never goes away so it may for some people but not for others. Also be sure to rest.

 

I am not 100% sure about Dr Fung's opinions as he is very arrogant and not everything he says makes sense to me.

 

As an example he talks about cures for diabetes...

 

 

Distilled water tastes horrible; I guess I mean it is tasteless, but I find it unpalatable and just can't drink it even though I've heard the same positive things about it.  Personally I don't think what type of water you drink matters one way or the other.  In Thailand, any bottled water will do the job I think.  Back in the USA, tap water was always fine for me.  Icy COLD water is best ?

 

[tfc]

3 hours ago, Bonobojt said:

I personally think One Meal a Day is not for me, maybe another fad diet, also life is short, I want to enjoy it before I die, and eating is enjoyable, 3 healthy meals a day of plant based foods is perfectly healthy, feeds your gut bacteria, its enjoyable, its social, it makes us happy, lets us get enough calories in the day, but hey I've only seen 1 YouTube video about it, haven't done any research on OMAD, but I think its just another new idea health guru's have come up with to get attention and views on the internet 

 

It's definitely not a diet that I recommend to my friends/family offhand.  I'll just talk about it if asked or relevant to the discussion in some way and would certainly never push it on anyone.  I know lifestyles have changed a lot over the last few centuries and a lot of people do really well on the conventional modern diet (with some alterations towards healthier foods usually though) which fits with the lifestyle.  Apparently the "smithsonianmag" is supposed to have some credibility though I as a general rule I don't blindly follow anything I read or am told whether on the internet or off the internet (within a spectrum from this just doesn't make sense at all to hmmm maybe I'll do some more research on this).  Anyways according to them the conventionally accepted diet is more the "fad" (in the context of human existence on the planet) which doesn't necessarily mean that its good/bad just as so called "ancient wisdom"/old ways aren't automatically good/bad.  After all our lifestyles are pretty different from ancient Rome/Greece.  As an aside though something definitely shifted for me with the OMAD way of eating and I enjoy life more primarily because of increased and stable energy, clarity and focus throughout my day but I was the minority in the group of friends/family that gained that benefit. 

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/mostly-old-and-ill-ate-breakfast-until-rise-working-man-180954041/

http://www.theiflife.com/wisdom-day-meal-frequency/

[Kohsamida]

39 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

Yes, of course. When I wrote 'fructose from corn syrup', I did mean 'fructose as processed from corn syrup', known as HFCS.

 

Fructose is fructose, whether from fruit, or as processed from corn syrup. However, the fructose from whole fruit is accompanied by lots of fibre. Drinking lots of pure fruit juice, even though the label claims 'no artificial additives', might not be as healthy as one thinks because much of the fibre has been discarded, and one might be imbibing too much fructose.

 

How many apples would be needed to produce a litre of pure apple juice?  2kg perhaps? It would be easy to drink a litre of pure apple juice in a day, but would anyone eat 2kgs of whole apples in a day, in addition to their normal meals? ?
 

Respectfully disagree that "fructose is fructose".  HFCS and "natural" fructose  are quite different in one major respect and that has to do with concentration. 

 

Commercially made HFCS found in most processed foods such as soda, snacks, and cereals are in significantly higher concentrations than you would ever find from natural sources such as whole fruit. 

 

The same is true in most commercial juices, as opposed to the whole fruit, and as you suggested, the juices are lacking in fiber,

 

It's also worth noting, though the research is controversial, that the high levels of pectin found in many whole fruits may offset some of the health-unfriendly qualities of fructose.

 

It's also important to realize that HFCS is added to all sorts of processed foods, almost diabolically to make you want to eat more than you should since it fools brain receptors for satiety. 

 

Not that I wan to sound like a conspiracist...but I think this is a conscious design by the food industry so that you get "hooked" on eating more of their product and they make more money as a result.

 

It's just the same as the tobacco industry using additives to make cigarettes more addictive.  They all play the same game even though they'll deny it to their (or our) dying breath.