3 minutes ago, 1130bobs said:

Since I live in this town, let me add something that even local Thais brought up - maybe they caused the change -

        why, for the 1st 3 days, did the lead team of marine divers come out of the tunnels every evening, before dark, only to return the following morning to resume at daybreak?   It seems enough locals asked this  - since even they know its always dark inside the cave, that they announced in dramatic fashion: start of around the clock searches.  Was it the overtime that was not approved?  They returned to home / hotel for a meal & night in bed?   

Shifts?

2 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Explain to me then why ambulances need to do flashing light / sirens on "practice runs".

 

I have been to this cave. The road to it is short and flat, around 200 metres.

Well the whole world is watching now and Thailand doesn't want to loose face. So yes they better practise with the ambulances so they look like the real deal on tv.

 

They already look stupid now because of the electrical shocks given to rescuers.

 

1 hour ago, RandolphGB said:

A fleet of military grade remote controlled amphibious vehicles to penetrate deep into the cave should have been deployed by now. They can be fitted out with lights, infa-red cameras, and rescue boxes.

It has been reported earlier that one of the biggest issues is the turbidity of the water in the caves due to the constant rainfall. Divers lights are useless and since GPS for direction finding doesn't work underground, they need to use their compasses... that they can't see them due to the aforementioned mucky water. So they need to surface in a flooded cave to re-orientate themselves but when the cave is fully flooded and there's insufficient or no air space to do that, they have to go back or risk becoming trapped underwater. Despite having a digital display of compass heading, ROV's and AUV's would face the same challenges regarding visibility and the latter would be challenged maintaining communications with the operator.

12 minutes ago, 1130bobs said:

Since I live in this town, let me add something that even local Thais brought up - maybe they caused the change -

        why, for the 1st 3 days, did the lead team of marine divers come out of the tunnels every evening, before dark, only to return the following morning to resume at daybreak?   It seems enough locals asked this  - since even they know its always dark inside the cave, that they announced in dramatic fashion: start of around the clock searches.  Was it the overtime that was not approved?  They returned to home / hotel for a meal & night in bed?   

Maybe the resources weren't there in the first +36 hours to support 24/7 operations?

 

After all, they had been missing for only a couple of days and people had been known to get stuck behind flash-flooded chambers and re-emerge once the flood receded. But then it started raining constantly and the waters did not recede.

I was in Mae Sai today, and it hadn't rained in quite a while, and we could see the helicopters bombing around and drilling and tunneling equipment on standby down the road. I couldn't help thinking, If this weather holds, maybe they can get further in today. We went into the Macro which has a view of the mountain, and just as we got inside a massive rainfall started and everybody looked towards the mountain and it seemed like we all sighed at the same moment. So discouraging

... with all the efforts, I trust some type of support is given to the families, and..... when necessary at closure...

 

... look for that Thai football association to make a token FACE saving PR stunt...

 

 

Edited June 29, 20188 yr by Rhys

3 hours ago, faraday said:

Unless he's attempting to prepare people for a negative outcome.

 

I truly hope that all are ok.

The good thing is that the boys have access to (rain) water which will increase the change to survive considerably longer - we talk about weeks and even months... 

 

https://www.quora.com/How-long-can-someone-last-with-just-a-sip-or-two-of-water-and-no-food

14 minutes ago, ttrd said:

The good thing is that the boys have access to (rain) water which will increase the change to survive considerably longer - we talk about weeks and even months... 

 

https://www.quora.com/How-long-can-someone-last-with-just-a-sip-or-two-of-water-and-no-food

I went without any food myself (only water) for about five weeks once. (On purpose.) But I had fat stores and a comfortable environment. As has been pointed out these are fit boys, most probably have little fat and some were already thin and/or small.  I think a month would be pushing it for those guys in those conditions. 

In my case (not sure it would be similar in a real fight for survival situation) the intense hunger completely went away after about five days.

This is a case where overweight people are actually better off (which makes sense as during most of human history most people didn't have reliable food supplies). 

Edited June 29, 20188 yr by Jingthing

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I went without any food myself (only water) for about five weeks once. (On purpose.) But I had fat stores and a comfortable environment. As has been pointed out these are fit boys, most probably have little fat and some were already thin and/or small.  I think a month would be pushing it for those guys in those conditions. 

This is a case where overweight people are actually better off (which makes sense as during most of human history most people didn't have reliable food supplies). 

I agree with that, but regardless they are in a much better situation with access to water - althoug 1 week its a long time to be blocked inside a dark and humid cage, but with drinking water access its not yet critical in the sence of starving which is a good thing and give basis for a plausible hope.

Edited June 29, 20188 yr by ttrd

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

It has been reported earlier that one of the biggest issues is the turbidity of the water in the caves due to the constant rainfall. Divers lights are useless and since GPS for direction finding doesn't work underground, they need to use their compasses... that they can't see them due to the aforementioned mucky water. So they need to surface in a flooded cave to re-orientate themselves but when the cave is fully flooded and there's insufficient or no air space to do that, they have to go back or risk becoming trapped underwater. Despite having a digital display of compass heading, ROV's and AUV's would face the same challenges regarding visibility and the latter would be challenged maintaining communications with the operator.

Oh, don't you know the story of Ariadne and the thread? There was no compass but working precisely 

1 hour ago, 1130bobs said:

Since I live in this town, let me add something that even local Thais brought up - maybe they caused the change -

        why, for the 1st 3 days, did the lead team of marine divers come out of the tunnels every evening, before dark, only to return the following morning to resume at daybreak?   It seems enough locals asked this  - since even they know its always dark inside the cave, that they announced in dramatic fashion: start of around the clock searches.  Was it the overtime that was not approved?  They returned to home / hotel for a meal & night in bed?   

The Thai authorities vastly underestimated the scale of this search. Everything should have been thrown at it round the clock from day 1   when they didn’t come home

9 minutes ago, ttrd said:

I agree with that, but regardless they are in a much better situation with access to water - althoug 1 week its a long time to be blocked inside a dark and humid cage, but with drinking water access its not yet critical in the sence of starving which is a good thing and give basis for a plausible hope.

Yeah hope dies last. Anyway they have to go on to find the bodies 

My wife tells me locals have brought in a high standing monk to apologize to mountain spirits whom a local prophetess says 'have been insulted by two of the boys' . One boy stole coins from a cave grotto, and their other did a jive-ass graffiti tracing of his feet on the wall. How did she know this? Dunno.   Anyway -- some expect a poor outcome unless these two boys do penance . . . 

 

I'm reporting this because I've not yet seen it mentioned elsewhere

`Last night I was in front of cave until midnight giving instructions. People asked why I had to be there personally, and I said the warlord giving orders keeps the army’s morale up.

 

The governor of Chiang Rai qualifying himself as a Warlord ... that tells a lot about the institutions of this country !  for the rest : the battlefield is a cave where 12 kids and their coach are trying to survive, so please, Governor Rambo, have a little bit of modesty, this is a terrible drama and not a political or Hollywood stage, I don't care about you going to sleep late ! 

Let's hope and pray that those kids will go out safe. 

 

8 minutes ago, Zetetique said:

`Last night I was in front of cave until midnight giving instructions. People asked why I had to be there personally, and I said the warlord giving orders keeps the army’s morale up.

 

The governor of Chiang Rai qualifying himself as a Warlord ... that tells a lot about the institutions of this country !  for the rest : the battlefield is a cave where 12 kids and their coach are trying to survive, so please, Governor Rambo, have a little bit of modesty, this is a terrible drama and not a political or Hollywood stage, I don't care about you going to sleep late ! 

Let's hope and pray that those kids will go out safe. 

 

If he didnt show up - it was for sure wrong

When he showed up - its wrong

If he didnt say anything - it was for sure wrong

When he said something - its wrong...

 

Pls dont loose focus on the incident itself, its all that matters....

Edited June 29, 20188 yr by ttrd

5 minutes ago, ttrd said:

If he didnt show up - it was for sure wrong

When he showed up - its wrong

If he didnt say anything - it was for sure wrong

When he said something - its wrong...

 

Pls dont loose focus on the incident itself, its all that matters....

.. forgot the all important.... Photo ops...

6 hours ago, Briggsy said:

I particularly like this line.

 

I can just imagine the swaggering from the local rescue services absolutely gagging to be noticed.

 

"Turn the lights and siren on again, here's Channel 3. [runs fingers through hair, checks mirror for zits, squeezes a couple of blackheads]"

You forgot give the nose a pick!

It seems to me that they waited too long to request international assistance. 

It appears to me that this place has turned into an amusement park.

I've just read the first three comments... Give me a break, I wanna puke!

7 hours ago, kannot said:

Thats not your  job, I believe they have moderators for that.

How incorrect you are. Look at the upper right of each post.

2 hours ago, Searat7 said:

It seems to me that they waited too long to request international assistance. 

International assistance has now arrived and thay havent been able to do any more  than the Thais were able to do

I stand by my older post - there are some very unpleasant people on this forum- perhaps if it was their child was lost in this cave ??
I have no idea why they hate this country so much or have become so bitter and twisted. It’s sad .
How anyone can post - thinking it might be amusing or witty in this situation.
Just pathetic.



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7 hours ago, RandolphGB said:

A fleet of military grade remote controlled amphibious vehicles to penetrate deep into the cave should have been deployed by now. They can be fitted out with lights, infa-red cameras, and rescue boxes.

Remote vehicles are no good in a case like this because the operator cannot see through the muddy water to be able to guide it past the obstacles. A diver can feel his way past them

5 hours ago, Searat7 said:

It seems to me that they waited too long to request international assistance. 

One of the English guys is on record saying he was contacted on Sunday morning. He didn't say whether it was an official request from the Thai authorities, but the team managed to get their feet on the ground within 5 days of the boys going missing, which is pretty good considering the logistics involved in getting everything required transported at such short notice. 

7 hours ago, Thian said:

They already look stupid now because of the electrical shocks given to rescuers.

 

Have you heard the bad news ?

Two the rescuers did not get electric shocks , one of the rescuers just fainted .

Ruined my evening that has , feeling happy and smug about them getting electric shocks and I didnt and it was a false alarm

13 hours ago, webfact said:

I said the warlord giving orders keeps the army’s morale up

Not quite the right word, but point taken.

6 hours ago, OmarZaid said:

My wife tells me locals have brought in a high standing monk to apologize to mountain spirits whom a local prophetess says 'have been insulted by two of the boys' . One boy stole coins from a cave grotto, and their other did a jive-ass graffiti tracing of his feet on the wall. How did she know this? Dunno.   Anyway -- some expect a poor outcome unless these two boys do penance . . . 

 

I'm reporting this because I've not yet seen it mentioned elsewhere

and probably for good reason

Here are live updates, ironically it has to come from a country at the other side of the world.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/thailand-cave-rescue-news-live-updates-form-tham-luang-as-us-and-british-join-search-for-12-missing-a3874151.html

 

2 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

Here are live updates, ironically it has to come from a country at the other side of the world.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/thailand-cave-rescue-news-live-updates-form-tham-luang-as-us-and-british-join-search-for-12-missing-a3874151.html

 

There are live updates on Thai Tv and facebook continuously.