Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Just imagine, they might also have to get a visa.

 

What a hardship ?

 

How will the mollycoddled cope ?

 

The indignity of having to stand in a queue ?

 

I take it you have never traveled further than the confines of the EU. The above is standard practice throughout most of the World.

It would be interesting to know something about you, Renegade. What is/was you're line of work? Where did you go to university? Which countries have you worked in? Of course you have no obligation to disclose any of that. Up to you....

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

Good sense. Italy, Greece, Portugal, Spain, Poland etc. are making real inroads on an improved membership deal.

A better idea surely is to wait until they get the great deal we all want then we can apply to rejoin. 

Like when the EU reverts back to a '' Trading Block '' ?

 

Any ideas that the EU is open to negotiating or changing are barking at the moon.

 

The EU / Barnier. The treaties are non negotiable, so how anyone can expect change within the EU is quite simply staggering.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Couldn't agree more.  Only then will the eu start genuinely negotiating trade terms.

And we already have lost our rebates and opt outs. Why negotiate from a position of weakness? Far better to stay in and take time to negotiate.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, The Renegade said:

As a long term project, that should have already started, a plan should have been put in motion to start building, producing and making ALL the stuff that the UK currently imports but should be being produced in the UK.

Hilarious ? 

[vogie]

17 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So remain as a full member but negotiate some limitations on EU immigration. Why give up our involvement in decision making.

We tried it before grouse, nobody thought anybody would leave their little jolly boys club. Jean Claude Juncker is on the Jeremy Kyle show tonight highlighting his dysfunctional EU family if you're at all interested. ?

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Hilarious ? 

One word answers are for the brain dead.

 

Quote

As a long term project, that should have already started, a plan should have been put in motion to start building, producing and making ALL the stuff that the UK currently imports but should be being produced in the UK.

Now, in more than one word, explain why you think this is hilarious ?

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Can you explain to me how Trump was relevant to Brexit negotiations if Mrs May ignored his advice. 

You can try changing the context but it does not remove my previous response.

"I will accept your point on the basis you think that Trump is not trying to influence the brexit negotiations."

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Truth is, it's about time TM told the people that by enacting Brexit in whatever shape or form is going to be detrimental to all UK citizens, and should be abandoned as a project that cannot work in favour of the UK in the short to medium term.

 

As a long term project, the government may need to warn the people that there will be an immediate and  huge disruption to the UK economy and business and that people will lose jobs as a result"

 

The uk govt./remainers and 'experts' were saying this would be the case prior to the referendum, and in most cases they were saying 'immediately - in the event of a leave vote'....  Osborne's promised punishment budget springs to mind ?....

 

The voters recognised this as 'project fear' and disregarded it.  Why would they think differently now, bearing in mind that the immediate disaster predicted failed to occur?

And yet again, only prompt action by The Bank avoided an immediate recession following the referendum. Read up on it

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

One word answers are for the brain dead.

 

Now, in more than one word, explain why you think this is hilarious ?

Because you believe that a country with a population of 65 million is capable of creating duplicate industries to manufacture everything it needs? That alone is ludicrous. And how is that going to be done? Will the government be directing this effort or merely footing the bill? Or will private industry volunteer? Again, ridiculous. You also clearly aren't familiara wiith something called "comparative advantage" Clearly you have no idea how complex and interconnected industries in the world are and particularly those you share with your neighbors..

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, aright said:

What you say is true but you are giving us the small picture. We are not negotiating with individual members but with the totality of the EU. The fact is when we leave the EU it won't be China or the USA which will be its largest market it will be the UK.

 

 

That argument is fundamentally flawed, it makes the assumption that nothing will change.

The reality is that there is a high probability that many EU companies will no longer wish to trade under the new arrangement and focus sales activity in the single market, what they know and are used to. Don't try and fix something that isn't broke.

[sandyf]

One issue put to bed.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-white-paper-eu-european-convention-on-human-rights-tory-mps-a8444386.html

[aright]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

That argument is fundamentally flawed, it makes the assumption that nothing will change.

The reality is that there is a high probability that many EU companies will no longer wish to trade under the new arrangement and focus sales activity in the single market, what they know and are used to. Don't try and fix something that isn't broke.

My argument is as much flawed as your so called reality is conjecture.

[Grouse]

19 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

One word answers are for the brain dead.

 

Now, in more than one word, explain why you think this is hilarious ?

Ignorance

 

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01942/SN01942.pdf

 

Before Thatcher, 27% of our GDP was manufacturing. It is now 10% ?

[nontabury]

13 hours ago, kwilco said:

no it IS patronising and unfortunately like many uneducated elderly you fail to realise the biological and dementia changes that often lead older people to make more and more irrational and right wing decisions.

Another typical remark from an arrogant remainer,who refuses to accept the will of the people. Why do you automatically assume that all the elderly are uneducated, you could just as well accuse the younger people who voted remain, of being unable to think for themselves, and who have instead  allowed themselves to be indoctrinated. 

 One of the most disgraceful aspects of this discussion, is the attack on the elderly, by those trying to drive a wedge between different sections of the community, it’s akin to racism. And should be rejected by everyone. Thankfully no one on the Brexit side have criticised Vince Cable because of his age,instead attacking him for his misguided support of the hated E.U.

[The Renegade]

Just now, Grouse said:

Ignorance

 

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01942/SN01942.pdf

 

Before Thatcher, 27% of our GDP was manufacturing. It is now 10% ?

And yet you somehow think that heading back in that direction is hilarious ?

 

That is what you call ignorance.

[aright]

18 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You can try changing the context but it does not remove my previous response.

"I will accept your point on the basis you think that Trump is not trying to influence the brexit negotiations."

I will take it you can't explain it to me then.

QED

[nontabury]

5 hours ago, stephenterry said:

When the UK leaves the EU, any UK travellers will have to join the non-EU queues, unless of course there is yet another reciprocal agreement to be added to the negotiations.  That is not 'project fear' - what a cute name - it's reality, something that pro-Brexit people fail to acknowledge. Amongst other disastrous consequences about to befall the UK.

 

But hey, you can eat fish all-day instead of rats. 

 

 

 

But after we leave the hated E.U. They will be our fish, that we shall be eating,and not the scraps off the E.U’s table.

 

 

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

And yet you somehow think that heading back in that direction is hilarious ?

 

That is what you call ignorance.

I was alluding to your own poor understanding of economics and your facile solutions. I led you by the nose into false assumptions

 

In fact UK manufacturing has grown on average every year since 1948

 

https://www.themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/

 

However, services have grown faster

 

As an island nation with a high population density, trade is what we do. Breaking away from the world's largest trading block is idiotic.

[CG1 Blue]

14 hours ago, kwilco said:

no it IS patronising and unfortunately like many uneducated elderly you fail to realise the biological and dementia changes that often lead older people to make more and more irrational and right wing decisions.

Wow, such bitterness and hate. You should get yourself a girlfriend.

 

You're ok with the elderly Jean-Claude Juncker running the EU I assume?

 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

Wow, such bitterness and hate. You should get yourself a girlfriend.

 

You're ok with the elderly Jean-Claude Juncker running the EU I assume?

 

I thought Brexiteers claimed it was Germans who ran the EU with an assist from France. Turns out it's Luxembourg.

[tebee]

2 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

OK maybe not 27 times.

But the most damage (after the UK) will be for Ireland, The Netherlands, Belgium and France. Not a very smart move to upset your nearest neighbours most......

You also have to remember 2 things.

 

1 There will not be an absolute bar to trade in the event of a no deal except in some parts of services. Things will just get harder and exporting will cost more. The resulting lose in trade in goods will be asymmetric and will hit the UK much harder 

 

2 Services bring 80% of our export earning - roughly 1 billion a week. Those that lose their passporting rights will have no choice but to move to Europe. This may not mean an immediate loss  of jobs in the UK, but all those companies will now be domiciled in the EU and be paying their taxes there.  That is a lot of money to lose.

 

Some of those companies will move to the above counties, so some of the loses will be offset. Some, like France will be happy to lose the competition for animal products, though I suspect they will miss our shellfish.  The Netherlands will gain a bit as it looks Rotterdam  there  will be the only port able to offer Phytosanitary inspections on UK food exports. Ireland will be the worse  hit by a long way, but their economy is relatively small and the EU can easily bail them out.

[aright]

4 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

You're ok with the elderly Jean-Claude Juncker running the EU I assume?

 

He might prefer the younger Kim Jong-un, much younger,  only 34 and university educated.

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I thought Brexiteers claimed it was Germans who ran the EU with an assist from France. Turns out it's Luxembourg.

Puppet exports are on the up-and-up from the Grand Duchy.

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

Your whole argument smacks of cutting your nose off to spite your face. You're happy for the British working classes to suffer a lifetime of pain so that you can stick 2 fingers up to the EU? Well, someone as selfish as you probably would, but I don't think that you are in a majority in the UK, thankfully.

You’ve got that completely the wrong way round. It’s the working class that is suffering mostly from the open boarder policy that allows 100’s of thousand of unskilled east Europeans, to enter our country,and in doing so, results  in their job prospects being reduced and their wages being pressurised. But the selfish people don’t care.

[nauseus]

19 minutes ago, aright said:

He might prefer the younger Kim Jong-un, much younger,  only 34 and university educated.

KJU also banks in Luxembourg!

[bristolboy]

25 minutes ago, tebee said:

You also have to remember 2 things.

 

1 There will not be an absolute bar to trade in the event of a no deal except in some parts of services. Things will just get harder and exporting will cost more. The resulting lose in trade in goods will be asymmetric and will hit the UK much harder 

 

2 Services bring 80% of our export earning - roughly 1 billion a week. Those that lose their passporting rights will have no choice but to move to Europe. This may not mean an immediate loss  of jobs in the UK, but all those companies will now be domiciled in the EU and be paying their taxes there.  That is a lot of money to lose.

 

Some of those companies will move to the above counties, so some of the loses will be offset. Some, like France will be happy to lose the competition for animal products, though I suspect they will miss our shellfish.  The Netherlands will gain a bit as it looks Rotterdam  there  will be the only port able to offer Phytosanitary inspections on UK food exports. Ireland will be the worse  hit by a long way, but their economy is relatively small and the EU can easily bail them out.

Actually if the UK can't sell it's seafood fresh because of delays, it's seafood products will lose a lot of their value, Fresh seafood commands a much higher price than frozen. And it will still be foreigners doing the fishing since very few UK citizens want to do that cold and dangerous work.

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, nontabury said:

You’ve got that completely the wrong way round. It’s the working class that is suffering mostly from the open boarder policy that allows 100’s of thousand of unskilled east Europeans, to enter our country,and in doing so, results  in their job prospects being reduced and their wages being pressurised. But the selfish people don’t care.

Believe the UKIP fiction if you like, the majority of Eastern Europeans take up low paid jobs that young Brits simply won't entertain. e.g. fruit picking, hotel work etc. Many British businesses may have no option to shut up shop, due to a lack of staff, after Brexit.

[The Renegade]

30 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I was alluding to your own poor understanding of economics and your facile solutions. I led you by the nose into false assumptions

 

You never led me by the nose anywhere.

 

The UK economy is unbalanced in favour of Services and there is far too many '' Goods '' that are being imported, when they should be getting produced and manufactured in the UK.

 

That would create.

 

1. Employment

 

2. Beneficial for the UK economy

 

3. Reduce reliance on overseas imports

 

4. Would benefit climate change.

 

Just 4 advantages off the top of my head.

 

Somehow you think that this is '' Hilarious '' which actually speaks volumes about you.

 

[aright]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

KJU also banks in Luxembourg!

Only one thing left to determine...….does he like a drink!

[CG1 Blue]

5 hours ago, tebee said:

This is House of Commons Brexit Committee full official internal Brexit Impact study.

Above 0 - benefits of Brexit

Below 0 - cost of Brexit 

Cutting to the chase, Brexit means a much greater recession than even the 2009 economic collapse after the financial crisis.

 

You really shouldn't let yourself be taken in by things like this. As I've said before, there are too many moving parts for anyone to accurately predict how the economy will perform beyond the next few months. Almost every negative event will also have a positive impact. Most of these pro-Remain 'studies' you hold so much faith in just ignore any positive impacts.

A simple example would be the GBP exchange rate since the referendum. We mostly only hear about how this negatively impacted our holiday spending money and businesses importing goods. But the more realistically valued pound has given a huge boost to exporters and to the tourist industry in the UK. Swings and roundabouts.

Plus nobody knows what other events will occur between now and then.

 

To suggest Brexit will cause a greater recession than 2008 is simply scaremongering.