Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

The EU was created because the EC was failing. A customs union isn't enough. The disaster came in the form of the EURO. That was a huge and bizarre mistake. There was never rational justification for it. Support for it was based on emotionalism.

The EU was created as the next stage of a European project aiming at a centralised superstate.

 

The Euro was also a project requirement in order to control the economies of all member states.

 

Some of you guys are starting to make some sense. Why aren't you leavers?

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It's true the HSWA 1974 has greatly improved safety and health but it's also true that this is not all down to the EU. This act (or similar) was already in the works (ref Robens Report) in the UK before it joined the the EEC in 1973.

 

Leaving will certainly cause some economic damage but we will recover but this damage will not be limited to the UK. The more financially exposed parts of the EU will have more great difficulty when the next recession hits and mommy EU will not be able to save all of its babies next time. It's better to be outside the tent before it collapses when the guy ropes break. 

 

Yes, the succession of treaties have produced the EU that exists today and yes, it seems that Germany is the permanent chair. So sod that - let's get out.

Of course this is utter nonsense. One province in Belgium held up the approval of the treaty with Canada. Now Italy is doing the same. In fact, one of the frequent arguments of the Brexiteers is that there's too much democracy in the EU and point to the treaty process as proof.

As usual, you're confusing the EU with the Eurozone. Wouldn't it be great if the UK had its own currency instead of the Euro? Oh...wait a minute...

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

The EU was created as the next stage of a European project aiming at a centralised superstate.

 

The Euro was also a project requirement in order to control the economies of all member states.

 

Some of you guys are starting to make some sense. Why aren't you leavers?

Exactly how will the EU, or rather Germany as you would have it, compel the UK to abandon the pound?

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Of course this is utter nonsense. One province in Belgium held up the approval of the treaty with Canada. Now Italy is doing the same. In fact, one of the frequent arguments of the Brexiteers is that there's too much democracy in the EU and point to the treaty process as proof.

As usual, you're confusing the EU with the Eurozone. Wouldn't it be great if the UK had its own currency instead of the Euro? Oh...wait a minute...

What are you on about? Belgium?? Too much democracy in the EU?? Funny.

 

The Euro is the official currency of the EU and they want everyone to use it.  

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Exactly how will the EU, or rather Germany as you would have it, compel the UK to abandon the pound?

They exactly won't. Not that I mentioned it in the first place.

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It's true the HSWA 1974 has greatly improved safety and health but it's also true that this is not all down to the EU. This act (or similar) was already in the works (ref Robens Report) in the UK before it joined the the EEC in 1973.

 

Leaving will certainly cause some economic damage but we will recover but this damage will not be limited to the UK. The more financially exposed parts of the EU will have more great difficulty when the next recession hits and mommy EU will not be able to save all of its babies next time. It's better to be outside the tent before it collapses when the guy ropes break. 

 

Yes, the succession of treaties have produced the EU that exists today and yes, it seems that Germany is the permanent chair. So sod that - let's get out.

The Act was "in the works" because it was made clear that it needed to be implemented before the UK would be considered for entry into the EC.

 

Limited to the UK or not, my main concern is for the UK.

 

Maggie Thatcher (love her or hate her - I hated her), took the EC on and won the battle. It can be done if we have a strong determined leader (not limp wristed Cameron, clueless May or the eternal fence sitter Corbyn). We could even use that muppet Trump, wind him up point him in the direction of the EU and stand back.

 

We've lost a couple of battles lately but we haven't lost the war.

 

Get out? Where's your British steel man? (Oh, I forgot, Thatcher sold it off to be asset stripped.) 555

 

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Of course this is utter nonsense. One province in Belgium held up the approval of the treaty with Canada. Now Italy is doing the same. In fact, one of the frequent arguments of the Brexiteers is that there's too much democracy in the EU and point to the treaty process as proof.

As usual, you're confusing the EU with the Eurozone. Wouldn't it be great if the UK had its own currency instead of the Euro? Oh...wait a minute...

"one of the frequent arguments of the Brexiteers is that there's too much democracy in the EU"

 

Really ??!  I'm sure you'll be able to substantiate this claim with at least one post that says they think the eu is too democratic....

Edited July 14, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[tebee]

How Brexit Is Becoming a Political Disaster for Britain

 

http://time.com/5337408/brexit-theresa-may-eu-boris-johnson/

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, tebee said:

How Brexit Is Becoming a Political Disaster for Britain

 

http://time.com/5337408/brexit-theresa-may-eu-boris-johnson/

Brexit was founded on a political schism within  the Tory party - they converted their problems into a national disaster.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

They exactly won't. Not that I mentioned it in the first place.

Have the EU adopt the pound

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

"one of the frequent arguments of the Brexiteers is that there's too much democracy in the EU"

 

Really ??!  I'm sure you'll be able to substantiate this claim with at least one post that says they think the eu is too democratic....

How about putting it this way instead? The Brexiteers claim that Germany runs the EU. Yet a province of Belgium was able to thwart its will. And now Italy is doing the same.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

The Act was "in the works" because it was made clear that it needed to be implemented before the UK would be considered for entry into the EC.

 

Limited to the UK or not, my main concern is for the UK.

 

Maggie Thatcher (love her or hate her - I hated her), took the EC on and won the battle. It can be done if we have a strong determined leader (not limp wristed Cameron, clueless May or the eternal fence sitter Corbyn). We could even use that muppet Trump, wind him up point him in the direction of the EU and stand back.

 

We've lost a couple of battles lately but we haven't lost the war.

 

Get out? Where's your British steel man? (Oh, I forgot, Thatcher sold it off to be asset stripped.) 555

 

The Act was "in the works" anyway. The EU have claimed credit for a lot of HSE legislation that they merely adopted.

 

My main concern is also for the UK. 

 

I agree a Maggie Thatcher is what we need but probably not for the same reasons as you.

 

Yes, get out. It should be obvious to everyone now that the EU is primarily a political project and not one for the economic benefit of the majority of its members. 

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Have the EU adopt the pound

Too good for them.

[aright]

23 hours ago, aright said:

I will take it you can't explain it to me then.

QED

 

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

You are perfectly correct. If you fail to understand what Trump said, then it cannot be explained to you.

I don't think I failed to understand what Trump said …..I heard the Sun interview and read the transcript from which I got

"I told May how to do Brexit but she didn't listen to me

In an extraordinary intervention timed to coincide with his UK visit, Mr Trump said Theresa May ignored his advice by opting for a soft Brexit strategy."

 

My understanding of what Trump said is as above what's missing from this conversation is a cogent, direct, non squealing answer to my question.

Can you explain to me how Trump was relevant to Brexit negotiations if Mrs May ignored his advice?  

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

 

I don't think I failed to understand what Trump said …..I heard the Sun interview and read the transcript from which I got

"I told May how to do Brexit but she didn't listen to me

In an extraordinary intervention timed to coincide with his UK visit, Mr Trump said Theresa May ignored his advice by opting for a soft Brexit strategy."

 

My understanding of what Trump said is as above what's missing from this conversation is a cogent, direct, non squealing answer to my question.

Can you explain to me how Trump was relevant to Brexit negotiations if Mrs May ignored his advice?  

It's irrelevant anyway as the brits (understandably) weren't impressed by obama 'poking his nose' into the discussion prior to the referendum - saying that the uk 'would be at the bottom of any trade deal with the US' - so they're obviously not that bothered about anything uttered by foreign countries, unless it's immediately followed by action that benefits the uk.

Edited July 14, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[aright]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

It's irrelevant anyway as the brits (understandably) ignored obama saying that the uk would be at the bottom of any trade deal with the US - so they're obviously not that bothered about anything uttered by foreign countries, unless it's immediately followed by action that benefits the uk.

I think the difference is DD, Obama gave the British people advice not necessarily from his own conviction but at the request of Cameron as adding to project fear. Trump gave advice on negotiation process although it's well known he supports Brexit or if you prefer and to put it another way doesn't like the EU.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, aright said:

I think the difference is DD, Obama gave the British people advice not necessarily from his own conviction but at the request of Cameron as adding to project fear. Trump gave advice on negotiation process although it's well known he supports Brexit or if you prefer and to put it another way doesn't like the EU.

Nonetheless, I still think brits. tend to get a bit annoyed when foreign powers interfere in domestic issues.

 

Uk politicians think the electorate will be impressed, but the electorate are just annoyed IMO.

[Grouse]

 

Turn the sound down and read the sub titles

 

And then do it again

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

The EU was created because the EC was failing. A customs union isn't enough. The disaster came in the form of the EURO. That was a huge and bizarre mistake. There was never rational justification for it. Support for it was based on emotionalism.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I was stationed in Germany before the common market and had to drive around Europe with a selection of different currencies in the glovebox. The people of central Europe had been campaigning for a common currency for over 30 years before the Euro appeared. You wouldn't be suggesting that the will of the people be ignored per chance.

 

The question of peripheral countries having to use the Euro is a different issue altogether.

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Turn the sound down and read the sub titles

 

And then do it again

There's more...

 

 

[aright]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Nonetheless, I still think brits. tend to get a bit annoyed when foreign powers interfere in domestic issues.

I think you are right but it's a lot closer to home than we think. The most recent event I recall was Brussels applying pressure to Italy's President Mattarella's decision to install an anti- Euro PM.

[Grouse]

53 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Too good for them.

The fact is that a common currency is a great idea.

 

HOWEVER, it doesn't work unless you already have harmonisation of multiple other matters

 

Clearly it works in the USA 

[bristolboy]

14 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Nothing could be further from the truth. I was stationed in Germany before the common market and had to drive around Europe with a selection of different currencies in the glovebox. The people of central Europe had been campaigning for a common currency for over 30 years before the Euro appeared. You wouldn't be suggesting that the will of the people be ignored per chance.

 

The question of peripheral countries having to use the Euro is a different issue altogether.

If you think the difficulty of converting currencies a good justification for creating a monetary union without a fiscal union, then you seriously need a basic course in economics. Or just look at the economic situation in the eurozone  over the past 8 years.

A monetary union without a fiscal union has the perverse effect of helping stronger economies and hurting weaker economies during adverse economic episodes like the recent recession.

Germany is still benefiting from what is in effect a currency that is undervalued in relation to its economy and overvalued in relation to the southern european nations.

And convenience is to your mind on the same level of importance or greater than this? The Swiss and the Poles seem to be managing okay.

Edited July 14, 2018 by bristolboy

[aright]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The fact is that a common currency is a great idea.

 

HOWEVER, it doesn't work unless you already have harmonisation of multiple other matters

 

Clearly it works in the USA 

IT works in the USA because for all intents and purposes  it has always been there. 1792 as I recall.

[sandyf]

16 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

If you think the difficulty of converting currencies a good justification for creating a monetary union without a fiscal union, then you seriously need a basic course in economics.

Absolutely nothing to do with what I think, it is what the people of central Europe wanted.

You should realise that when people want something rational argument does not come into it, one way or another a common currency was going to come about.

[3 minus 2]

On 6/30/2018 at 1:41 AM, vogie said:

There's a good chance there won't be an EU in 15-20 months, never mind years.

Why do non brits think they know better than than us?

We wanted fair play, being governed by Germany and France is not fair play. Our fathers fought for our freedom, I'm guessing your fathers helped us too, what would they think now, giving our country away.

The EU is corrupt, Mutty thinks she can do whatever she likes and it doesn't matter if she compromises the rest of europes security. 

We have difficult times ahead, but no-one said it was going to be easy.

Shameful ignorant nonsence. the only bit right is that the uk has hard tiimes ahead

 

 

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, 3 minus 2 said:

Shameful ignorant nonsence. the only bit right is that the uk has hard tiimes ahead

 

 

Not nonsense at all. All true and just. The shame belongs to the EU and its deceitfulness. So there. 

 

Off for happy hour. Will check for shocked replies in the morning.   

[bristolboy]

On 6/30/2018 at 7:41 AM, vogie said:

"There's a good chance there won't be an EU in 15-20 months, never mind years.

Why do non brits think they know better than than us?

We wanted fair play, being governed by Germany and France is not fair play. Our fathers fought for our freedom, I'm guessing your fathers helped us too, what would they think now, giving our country away.

The EU is corrupt, Mutty thinks she can do whatever she likes and it doesn't matter if she compromises the rest of europes security. 

We have difficult times ahead, but no-one said it was going to be easy."

 

If ever an untruth was ever penned on thaivisa, vogie's is it:

Just 11 Times Leave Campaigners Said That Brexit Would Be Easy

https://www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/nobody-said-it-was-easy?utm_term=.miKDPlzVj#.rm1oYm90y

Just Liam Fox and Nigel Farage amongst others

[vogie]

18 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

On 6/30/2018 at 7:41 AM, vogie said:

"There's a good chance there won't be an EU in 15-20 months, never mind years.

Why do non brits think they know better than than us?

We wanted fair play, being governed by Germany and France is not fair play. Our fathers fought for our freedom, I'm guessing your fathers helped us too, what would they think now, giving our country away.

The EU is corrupt, Mutty thinks she can do whatever she likes and it doesn't matter if she compromises the rest of europes security. 

We have difficult times ahead, but no-one said it was going to be easy."

 

If ever an untruth was ever penned on thaivisa, vogie's is it:

Just 11 Times Leave Campaigners Said That Brexit Would Be Easy

https://www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/nobody-said-it-was-easy?utm_term=.miKDPlzVj#.rm1oYm90y

Just Liam Fox and Nigel Farage amongst others

Maybe saying 'No Deal' turning the lights off, slamming the door and walking away might be easier than I thought.

Edited July 14, 2018 by vogie

[bristolboy]

26 minutes ago, vogie said:

Maybe saying 'No Deal' turning the lights off, slamming the door and walking away might be easier than I thought.

Like walking off a cliff.