Chiang Rai: Search teams ‘making headway’

[KiwiKiwi]

Well, I've persevered with reading these threads but I notice many smart people are staying away and many redneck people are not.

 

These threads are of little value. Too much nonsense and nobody's going to benefit from your thoughts or mine if there wasn't any nonsense. Thais don't want foreigner opinion or expertise, they do want foreign money and bodies (for as long as those bodies do as Thais tell them) and to allow Thais to garner the credit for any good result while being able to blame non-Thais for any and all bad results.

 

Good luck to all, especially good luck to the football team, though I agree with others who believe they're gone already and are beyond the realm where luck will be of any value. I'm pretty sure those running the show also know this, what we see now is only for the optics. Welcome to reality in Thailand.

 

For all those who just want to bicker - good luck to you, you make your bed, you lie in it.

[Artisi]

20 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

Navy SEALs making all-out efforts to reach Cave's Pattaya Beach

Rescue operations are going ahead at full steam in the Tham Luang cave in Chiang Rai province in the hope of saving all 13 members of a local football club who are believed to be stranded inside since June 23.

The Royal Thai Navy’s SEALs are now trying to dive through 800-metre-wide body of water to get closer to the “Pattaya Beach” part of the cave. 

 

After diving through the waters, the SEALs will reach an intersection. From there, the team will have to go about 1.3 kilometres to reach the Pattaya Beach zone.

 

“There have been many obstacles inside the cave and the water level did not reduce as much as we expected. We are doing our best to overcome them all,” Naval Special Warfare Command chief Rear Admiral Apakorn Yukongkaew said on Sunday.

 

Six policemen from Australia who are highly skilled in cave diving have already reached the cave.

 

From The Nation Newspaper. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30349035

 

My question is what cave have the Australians reached or does the reporter mean they have arrived?

Think you can assume, arrived. 

[Expatthailover]

10 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

Well, I've persevered with reading these threads but I notice many smart people are staying away and many redneck people are not.

 

These threads are of little value. Too much nonsense and nobody's going to benefit from your thoughts or mine if there wasn't any nonsense. Thais don't want foreigner opinion or expertise, they do want foreign money and bodies (for as long as those bodies do as Thais tell them) and to allow Thais to garner the credit for any good result while being able to blame non-Thais for any and all bad results.

 

Good luck to all, especially good luck to the football team, though I agree with others who believe they're gone already and are beyond the realm where luck will be of any value. I'm pretty sure those running the show also know this, what we see now is only for the optics. Welcome to reality in Thailand.

 

For all those who just want to bicker - good luck to you, you make your bed, you lie in it.

Great post that makes a great ppint about those who add nothing to these threads other than to criticise thai efforts etc

[KiwiKiwi]

1 minute ago, Expatthailover said:

Great post that makes a great ppint about those who add nothing to these threads other than to criticise thai efforts etc

 

*shrug*

 

good luck to you.

[shaurene]

16 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

How could this assistant coach take 12 kids into a cave that knowingly floods in the rainy season starting in June? He's the only guy to blame, not the poor kids. 

The so called authorities know this, THEY SHOULD CLOSE THE ENTRANCE, LIKE THEY DO IN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. BUT, I FORGOT, THATS TOO EASY. LOL.

Not looking good for the guys now. But they should carry on seaching. Remember the football team in South America their plane came down in the high mountains, they servived by eating the dead body of their friend. They had plenty water from the snow. 

[Jai Dee]

A crude troll comment has been removed from this thread.

[KiwiKiwi]

17 hours ago, eeworldwide said:

The problem is quite simply that unlike an investigation in say perhaps, the UK, this whole thing has been extremely badly managed. As soon as the boys were discovered to have not come out of the cave, the military should have been alerted, and the entire place sealed off. They should then have quickly identified the need for experts and kept the people involved to an absolute minimum. The whole thing has turned into a homogenous mess with every tom dick and harry turning up from every corner of the globe, and every province in the area "ready to help", so there's no clear communication and no real plan. We the public have no idea of what's really being communicated and a clear plan of action. I don't know the geography of the cave very well, but it seems strange to me that they have not located the boys, and there is also no sign of any clothes that might have come off a drowning body. They've pumped out millions of gallons of water, and they've found nothing at all. I don't believe that the boys have crawled all the way to Pattaya Beach cave - if they did - how the heck has nobody else managed to get there yet? I think they're either in the caves to the north, or they found another way out and are lost in the jungle. IT's bonkers that it's taken an entire week for even ONE expert seal or diver to have reached the cave  - and I'd be willing to bet hard money that they're not in Pattaya Beach.

 

I personally agree with you, however, you make the same mistake I made for a long time, in not realising that this is Thailand, Thais run the place, and it's a 3rd-world place. You just can't expect 1st-world standards of management here, What you *can* expect is to see Thais falling over themselves to blame foreigners in the event that it all (God forbid) goes t*ts-up. It's a shame, but I believe it's inevitable because I personally believe that the Thai debacle should have been finished days ago. I don't think the delay will have killed the kids, I think they probably didn't last more than 3 or 4 days which was sooner than the first 'Navy SEALS' got their feet wet.

 

I also do not believe they were ever waiting at 'Pattaya Beach'.

 

Might be wrong but I agree with you. And congratulations on one of the few intelligent posts in these threads. I respond to your post, really as a last(ish) act, I'm out of here. If I want to keep company with people like the majority in here, I'll start going to football matches.

 

 

[Aforek]

7 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

 It's a shame, but I believe it's inevitable because I personally believe that the Thai debacle should have been finished days ago. I don't think the delay will have killed the kids, I think they probably didn't last more than 3 or 4 days which was sooner than the first 'Navy SEALS' got their feet wet.

 

I also do not believe they were ever waiting at 'Pattaya Beach'.

 

Of course, you can say what you think, but you must also admit that you don't know more than the others 

you can only assume 

[KiwiKiwi]

4 minutes ago, Aforek said:

Of course, you can say what you think, but you must also admit that you don't know more than the others 

you can only assume 

Correct, but then life is 90% assumptions based on what information is available. Assumptions aren't bad.

 

My experience in Thailand suggests a bad outcome to this. For reasons which were predictable and predicted. Hope I'm wrong, really I do, but I fear I'm not.

Edited July 2, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[lvr181]

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

Think you can assume, arrived. 

I am sure you're correct. At first I could read two interpretations of what was reported. 

[Artisi]

Just now, lvr181 said:

I am sure you're correct. At first I could read two interpretations of what was reported. 

normal - nothing unusual - at least it has some meaning, right or wrong. ?  

[JAZZDOG]

3 minutes ago, Artisi said:

normal - nothing unusual - at least it has some meaning, right or wrong. ?  

https://news.thaivisa.com/article/22635/rescuers-about-to-reach-pattaya-beach-chamber-of-tham-luang-cave

[Artisi]

6 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

https://news.thaivisa.com/article/22635/rescuers-about-to-reach-pattaya-beach-chamber-of-tham-luang-cave

Interesting if fact.

 

But the  "They speculated that survivors would be exhausted and would not be able to join divers on a swim to safety. They resolved to send in food supplies and nurse them back to better health before making the return trip."  the comment seems like a problem -- of course the cave won't flood again will it ?
 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Artisi

[stevenl]

I know 2 people diving there, and I know a few businesses here have been sending lots of tanks and other materials there these last days. In general there is an upbeat mood now, feeling we're almost there.

[Tug]

Still following still hoping for a safe and positive outcome

[Rimmer]

A personal attack and reply have been removed

[JAZZDOG]

8 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Interesting if fact.

 

But the  "They speculated that survivors would be exhausted and would not be able to join divers on a swim to safety. They resolved to send in food supplies and nurse them back to better health before making the return trip."  the comment seems like a problem -- of course the cave won't flood again will it ?
 

That was the plan all along because these kids have no divers training. No way I see taking the kids under the water even if the current is in their favor. But then you run the risk of being flooded in for months possibly. Maybe why they are going full on drilling another entry from above. Sounds like we will no more in just hours. The detail they go into sounds like they fully expect to find the kids there. If not this story sets them up for some serious loss of race which I don't think they would buy into but rather remain silent. No say.

[cardinalblue]

I wonder what constitutes "food supplies"? I wonder what "a swim to safety" entails?

 

I think cleaning drinking water or energy drinks at most preferably an IV. Solid food after 8 days of nothing and then putting them through some stressful swimming/diving activity should be on the advise of medical/nutritional/emergency management experts who have actual experience vs academic experience...  

[fullcave]

12 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

How long would they be able to survive if they had spent the entire time (except for day 1) up to their necks in water?

 

That would seem to be the worst case which might offer some chance of survival.

 

 

 

 

And in total darkness. Not good I'm afraid. 

[mike324]

2 minutes ago, cardinalblue said:

I wonder what constitutes "food supplies"? I wonder what "a swim to safety" entails?

 

I think cleaning drinking water or energy drinks at most preferably an IV. Solid food after 8 days of nothing and then putting them through some stressful swimming/diving activity should be on the advise of medical/nutritional/emergency management experts who have actual experience vs academic experience...  

They will probably have to wait till flood water recedes, at the moment some parts of the cave are still flooded and they already prepare children scuba equipment for them to use. The kids will be too weak to swim for sure. The other option is to find a way to drill a hole and lift them to safety.

 

But they already suspect they are too weak, so they will nurse them back to health before evacuating them out. 

 

I wonder if they thought about preparing a set of fresh clothes and some thermal suits for the kids if they plan on having them swim out, its a long way out too. Took the divers more than a week to reach them.

[Sonhia]

And the street vendors, no doubt, will be there in force, also blocking the way, fighting for revenue in-order to make money out of the plight of others.

 

Too many chiefs, as always, showing their faces for the unnecessary and over the top photo shots...To many onlookers , hanging around for show too!

 

The situation comes across to me as complete mess on the part of the authorities handling the situation.   

 

It is very hard to predict the out-come of this sad report, but I have my doubts based on my lengthy experiences of living within Thailand and dealing with the Thai mind-set mentality.

 

I truly hope I'm wrong and that the victims are recovered,?

  

 

  

[UglyBug]

1 hour ago, Tug said:

Still following still hoping for a safe and positive outcome

Same same as I hope everyone is !

[Essaybloke]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

I know 2 people diving there, and I know a few businesses here have been sending lots of tanks and other materials there these last days. In general there is an upbeat mood now, feeling we're almost there.

Geez I hope so. I wonder what the 'reasonable survival timescale' is? Poor buggers, what a way to go. ?

[UglyBug]

3 hours ago, fullcave said:

And in total darkness. Not good I'm afraid. 

Supported by 3 sources

In general terms, the human body can go two to three days without water and, it is often said in survival guides, 30 to 40 days without food of any kind. (Many of these guides also discourage people from scavenging for wild plants or shrubs because of the adverse effects these can have.)  Hope and Pray !

[KiwiKiwi]

32 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

1. Not that easy when it is complex flooded system.

 

2. Numerous reasons for this to happen, many TVF posters from modern western nations may be shaking their heads in disbelief how it was not better "communicated" about safety,       

    in these instances.

   

   Education comes to mind as one of the "causes".

 

The Minister of Tourism is probably having a fit! 

 

 

As well they should. There will be some tourists looking at the way an (even unrelated) emergency is managed, and reaching for their phones to cancel or otherwise seek reassurance. Personally, I would not be reassured at all by watching the TV, even the EL TV.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

As well they should. There will be some tourists looking at the way an (even unrelated) emergency is managed, and reaching for their phones to cancel or otherwise seek reassurance. Personally, I would not be reassured at all by watching the TV, even the EL TV.

Hopefully you will be on your phone , booking a one way flight out of Thailand 

[Artisi]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Hopefully you will be on your phone , booking a one way flight out of Thailand 

it would be no loss to Thailand … and one can only hope.

[josephbloggs]

12 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Hopefully you will be on your phone , booking a one way flight out of Thailand 

Get ready for his usual reply:

 

This post has been reported for personal abuse.

 

??

[PJ33]

Apparently they've all just been found alive. Great news!!!!!

Edited July 2, 2018 by PJ33

[josephbloggs]

On 7/1/2018 at 8:17 AM, KiwiKiwi said:

Evidently it's now thought possible that the 'experts' have been heading the wrong way, and Vern might have been right to wander off in the opposite direction.

 

Why are they suspected to be in 'Pattaya Beach' anyway? I sense a serious loss of face approaching. Surely if they knew they were travelling several kilometers, they would have left breadcrumbs, and that would have been easy enough to do - indeed, could not the shoes and bags have been just that?, but there's been no mention of breadcrumbs in the news reports.

I wonder if they found the breadcrumbs too?

 

You were right about the serious loss of face though.

Edited July 2, 2018 by josephbloggs