Rescuers ponder how to extract boys from flooded Thai cave as more rain due

[Nigeone]

I actually don't think they have a option but get them out in the next few days.  Massive risk I know but can anyone guarantee that all the trapped and people with them will remain healthy over a 4 month period ! Once the rains come it's not happening then they have more time to pump out and  arrive at where there are now. Sorry and very worrying but I honestly think they have to go for it. Interestingly the fact more Brit diving experts are on there way would indicate something's happening !! 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Nigeone

[BEVUP]

I'm watching CH 32 now

it seems in some sections they plan to have divers going both ways 

Seen them drilling rock in a section with their power leads in the water 

Hoses & ect every where, but water knee deep 

Still thinking of 830 mtrs above 

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, Tug said:

I wonder how much of the journey out of the cave has an airspace that would help keep the panick impulse down its the current that worries me the most they might have to wait it out provided they have a ledge abouve the highest water level 

The part of the cave that has the u shape full of water is so scary. 

I couldn't do that. 

It's going to be hard. 

[Tug]

It’s the current that worries me the most especially in the restricted areas the water moving through a restriction will accerelate to catch up.looks like they are trying to fit the boys up with Agua masks that is a good choice if they can fit the smaller faces of the boys that being said those masks can be dislodged or ripped off your face in a strong current I am sure they have plenty of help and weigh the risks and do what is appropriate god speed good luck and kudos to all involves

[Bangkok Ape]

If anyone can do it and knows the inherent risks it's the two British divers and their colleagues (Another two who are en route as we speak).

 

https://darknessbelow.co.uk/wp-content/cache/all/thai-rescue-update-two-more-british-cave-divers-en-route-to-tham-luang-cave/index.html

 

I assume that Rick and John have requested that guys join them and these 4 will play a hugely prominent roll in getting the kids out.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Bangkok Ape

[BEVUP]

Watching TV & they're coming up with some crazy ideas, but it's all to late & would never work

[Bangkok Ape]

1 minute ago, BEVUP said:

Watching TV & they're coming up with some crazy ideas, but it's all to late & would never work

It's all noise to fill in the broadcast blanks while the rescue team make progress 7km underground.

 

Armchair speculation.

[greenchair]

Another report says they heard chickens and dogs barking. They think there might be another passage. 

[Basil B]

4 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Another report says they heard chickens and dogs barking. They think there might be another passage. 

Have they tested the air? 

 

If there is no depletion of O2 and no build up of CO2 then possibly there is fresh air getting in.

[Tchooptip]

7 hours ago, CGW said:

Is that what they are pumping out, or is that what the maximum they hope to pump out with extra pumps? either way, its a lot of water to move, about ~4.5 million pints a day 

17, 000 cubic meter is 17, 000, 000 liters, that is to say 29, 915, 817, 762  UK pint

[Nigeone]

2 hours ago, Bangkok Ape said:

If anyone can do it and knows the inherent risks it's the two British divers and their colleagues (Another two who are en route as we speak).

 

https://darknessbelow.co.uk/wp-content/cache/all/thai-rescue-update-two-more-british-cave-divers-en-route-to-tham-luang-cave/index.html

 

I assume that Rick and John have requested that guys join them and these 4 will play a hugely prominent roll in getting the kids out.

 

 

Yes this is a big change in focus as you would assume with all the other  dive experts there and the large number of Thai Seals they would be no need for more Brits. Could it be they've seen sense and realized maybe the British guys are the best chance .. The Thais in charge are in a tough spot and if they look around these British guys must jump out to use them. Also I'm sure they would be communication issues diving in this situation with non English speakers so getting more experts with English as a main language would make sense for teams you know each other and can communicate easily to try a rescue .

Edited July 5, 2018 by Nigeone

[chickenslegs]

5 hours ago, greenchair said:

They are at the end of the cave 

I don't think so. According to all the diagrams I have seen, they are a very long way from the end. Most reports say that the boys are about 2.5 - 3.0 km into the main cave, which is approximately 7.0 km long.

 

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Good questions but I'm going to make some assumptions (always dangerous) 

 

-- It is possible for them to be flooded out from their current ledge

-- If there was an accessible place that they go even now (without diving anywhere) that was safer to stay in place, we would have heard about it by now and possibly they would have even been moved there by now.

I'm certain that the local governor said he has previously explored to the end of the main cave and there are areas along the way that never flood (presumably that is confirmed by the water lines on the cave walls).

 

Of course, there may be flooded sections between their present location and the safe areas.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

I don't think so. According to all the diagrams I have seen, they are a very long way from the end. Most reports say that the boys are about 2.5 - 3.0 km into the main cave, which is approximately 7.0 km long.

 

I'm certain that the local governor said he has previously explored to the end of the main cave and there are areas along the way that never flood (presumably that is confirmed by the water lines on the cave walls).

 

Of course, there may be flooded sections between their present location and the safe areas.

I think you're wrong.

In fact, on BBC tonight they were discussing looking further deep into the cave that would actually involve some diving as a possibility to move the boys if they have to stay. They weren't sure if such places exist though. 

But the discussion did indicate there is no safer area in either direction that wouldn't involve some diving (assuming they can't successfully drain enough water with pumps). 

[JAZZDOG]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think you're wrong.

In fact, on BBC tonight they were discussing looking further deep into the cave that would actually involve some diving as a possibility to move the boys if they have to stay. They weren't sure if such places exist though. 

But the discussion did indicate there is no safer area in either direction that wouldn't involve some diving (assuming they can't successfully drain enough water with pumps). 

If that's the case they might as well go for it because that rock they're on is only a couple feet above water and appears to have a low ceiling. They can see how the kids do under water getting back to PB. Seems now to be just one critical spot.

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

They weren't sure if such places exist though. 

But the discussion did indicate there is no safer area in either direction that wouldn't involve some diving (assuming they can't successfully drain enough water with pumps). 

Going from the photos , it looks like they can swim in the water , without having to dive , they could go by boat

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, JAZZDOG said:

If that's the case they might as well go for it because that rock they're on is only a couple feet above water and appears to have a low ceiling. They can see how the kids do under water getting back to PB. Seems now to be just one critical spot.

They might have no choice.

Where they're at now is flooded as well but they found that ledge to stay it. Imagine watching the water rise in that situation. 

 

 

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

If that's the case they might as well go for it because that rock they're on is only a couple feet above water and appears to have a low ceiling. They can see how the kids do under water getting back to PB. Seems now to be just one critical spot.

Where they are now, doesnt flood at any time 

[chickenslegs]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think you're wrong.

In fact, on BBC tonight they were discussing looking further deep into the cave that would actually involve some diving as a possibility to move the boys if they have to stay. They weren't sure if such places exist though. 

But the discussion did indicate there is no safer area in either direction that wouldn't involve some diving (assuming they can't successfully drain enough water with pumps). 

I'm not sure which part of my post you think is wrong JT.

The boys are very far away from the end of the main cave ...

 

The local governor definitely said he has explored the caves personally and the area near the end never gets flooded.

 

As I said, there may be flooded areas preventing them from reaching the end of the main cave.

[JAZZDOG]

30 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Where they are now, doesnt flood at any time 

I'm not buying that. That place looks scary as hell to me. About two feet more water and the ceiling appears to be 6'. Pretty certain the plan D doesn't call for them spending 4 months at their current location. Looks like Pattaya Beach although a little lower has high ceilings. Maybe bring in a series of the large inflatable survival rafts they use on yachts just in case. They come in fairly small plastic boxes that they maybe can get thru the channels.

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by JAZZDOG
typo

[Nigeone]

5 hours ago, Bangkok Ape said:

If anyone can do it and knows the inherent risks it's the two British divers and their colleagues (Another two who are en route as we speak).

 

https://darknessbelow.co.uk/wp-content/cache/all/thai-rescue-update-two-more-british-cave-divers-en-route-to-tham-luang-cave/index.html

 

I assume that Rick and John have requested that guys join them and these 4 will play a hugely prominent roll in getting the kids out.

 

 

If you read the article again there's actually a total of 5 more coming . 

I missed it also first time reading . These two , 3 more following and the two already there would indicate or suggest the Brits are going to try and get them out before the rains come. Why would they bring them if not that .. ?? Good luck if this is the intention and respect to them to try 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Nigeone

[Fish Head Soup]

Some extra information to the article above regarding roles of the different people involved, and a little technical info too.

 

https://www.xray-mag.com/content/two-more-brit-cave-rescuers-fly-thailand-today

[greenchair]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

Going from the photos , it looks like they can swim in the water , without having to dive , they could go by boat

Boat? How are they going to get a boat in there? 

If there was an award for dumbest post about the rescue. 

You would win sanemax. ???

[sanemax]

15 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Boat? How are they going to get a boat in there? 

If there was an award for dumbest post about the rescue. 

You would win sanemax. ???

An inflatable one (And I was referring to the main waterways , and there will be some places where they will have to dive)

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by sanemax

[Fish Head Soup]

^Between you with your boat, and and Jazzdog with his survival rafts the two of you might as well go the full hog and just suggest they try and get a submarine in there for them.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, Fish Head Soup said:

^Between you with your boat, and and Jazzdog with his survival rafts the two of you might as well go the full hog and just suggest they try and get a submarine in there for them.

The water level has dropped , theres about a 2 kilometer stretch of water which is walk-able through , why not get an inflatable boat in there ?

   Keeps the kids fitter for when they have to go under water

[Fish Head Soup]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The water level has dropped , theres about a 2 kilometer stretch of water which is walk-able through , why not get an inflatable boat in there ?

   Keeps the kids fitter for when they have to go under water

You do realise that between where the kids are and 'pattaya beach' there is a tunnel that constantly needs to be reopened and chipped away as stones and mud keep blocking it up, to get through the tunnel the divers need to take their tanks off and push them through in front of them whilst squeezing through the sides of the tunnel? Taking the kids through the parts that are not submerged is ZERO issue, they don't need boats and rafts for that, and they certainly don't need to swim.

 

Forget what you are hearing about learning to swim and dive, they will be made used to breathing with masks on, strapped up, weighted down and moved through the system by the cave divers.

 

Five more of the British cave rescue team are on the way with over half a ton of specialist gear they need to get the job done (check previous links in this thread), they obviously have their plan ready. The Thai are just giving the public lip service with all the rest of the noise being made.

 

They are not taking boats in with them.

[lamyai3]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

Where they are now, doesnt flood at any time 

One of the kids fell into water even during one of the videos. Add that to the fact that Pattaya Beach was considered to be a safe haven a few days ago, but was found to be flooded when the rescue teams got there, makes it clear there's no guarantee of anything if heavy rains were to hit. I think they're right to be considering early extraction while waters are relatively lower. 

[JAZZDOG]

1 hour ago, Fish Head Soup said:

You do realise that between where the kids are and 'pattaya beach' there is a tunnel that constantly needs to be reopened and chipped away as stones and mud keep blocking it up, to get through the tunnel the divers need to take their tanks off and push them through in front of them whilst squeezing through the sides of the tunnel? Taking the kids through the parts that are not submerged is ZERO issue, they don't need boats and rafts for that, and they certainly don't need to swim.

 

Forget what you are hearing about learning to swim and dive, they will be made used to breathing with masks on, strapped up, weighted down and moved through the system by the cave divers.

 

Five more of the British cave rescue team are on the way with over half a ton of specialist gear they need to get the job done (check previous links in this thread), they obviously have their plan ready. The Thai are just Igiving the public lip service with all the rest of the noise being made.

 

They are not taking boats in with them.

They make those kids dive is a real bad idea. I fear they all wont make it. The Brit divers along with the Seals have expressed the same concerns. Have been diving since I was these kids ages I know I am nowhere near prepared to dive caves. Your plan to strap and weight them down and drag them through very small holes in rock for long distances shows you know little or nothing about being underwater. Much less dark water with strong currents. These kids will totally freak out just as you would or I would. Coming down from the top doesn't seem to be happening. Staying in place seems more and more likely with rains that are going to push the water higher, maybe much higher than it's been. They need to reposition immediately to wherever the long term dry place will be with little or no diving. I believe the area that is really tight is on the other side of PB. Seems like getting to PB is doable right now. That excludes going farther back in the cave.  Maybe there will be no dry area and you damn sure don't want a low ceiling. My thinking with the survival rafts is they come self contained. The one on my ketch is 6-man and measured like 20"x18"x32" in it's case. They are highly compacted so as to take up less space on deck.  Looks like Pattaya Beach is a bigger open area not far from where they are now. They may need to create a dry place and it may need to float. If they have to stay 3 months it requires getting in some type structure without exposure to the elements. I don't know any other way to achieve that not knowing how high the water may get. I for one would prefer being in the raft with a roof as opposed to laying in the mud with water dripping on me 24/7. Fishhead , you got any bright ideas how to deal with weathering 3-4 months in there?

Edited July 6, 2018 by JAZZDOG
typo

[JAZZDOG]

4 hours ago, Fish Head Soup said:

Some extra information to the article above regarding roles of the different people involved, and a little technical info too.

 

https://www.xray-mag.com/content/two-more-brit-cave-rescuers-fly-thailand-today

You understand that even if you have 95% confidence of getting a single kid out with this process that pulling it off 13 times creates a far greater risk one or more may not make it. The stress on the kids will be severe. Done correctly, staying in place offers a fair greater degree of confidence the kids will survive.

[Media1]

Now is the time start with the strongest boy

There is no time !