36 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your lack of experience is showing.. there is no way you can secure a mask that it cant be ripped of. Just moving it will flood it. 

 

The way i see it is that the most risky part is where the kids have to dive alone as stated in the article. 

 

"Regarding the plan for the 13 to swim or dive, there is only one critical point which it is risky: It is where every boy has to dive alone. The point is very narrow ... It is very deep water. The distance is pretty long," said Narongsak.

 

I am not saying that getting them out with diving is not an option, I am saying it has big risks but still might be the best option. But it certainly is not without risks.

You misunderstand, I'm talking about binding the boys hands so he cant pull it off, not the mask. Since they have to swim on their own in some sections, I guess that wont work. I do wonder how all the equipment they are taking in and out of there swims on its own? Must be pretty high tech equipment..

 

Nobody said It was not risky either.

Good to see plenty of (mostly) sensible discussion (for a change) with none of the usual bickering.

 

One thing that really worries me, that I've seen no mention of, is that they may be creating a much more serious problem by delaying any attempts to dive the kids until that the water levels are "as low as possible"..

 

What if a sudden downpour occurs? No one is really sure how quickly the cave will fill up - remember how far the divers managed to get on the 25th June, and it then took almost a week to get back there again after the rains came.  They could end up with the 13 kids plus at least another 26 Seals and/or other rescue personal trapped for 4 months...  Will there be enough supplies for that eventuality?

 

I really hope that they start to evacuate the kids that appear to be the most calm & confident as soon as possible - even if it means a slightly deeper and longer dive.  At this stage for every kid rescued mean there will be 3 less people that could end up being trapped for 4 months.

I am sure there is a plan in place if required to get the kids out fast and safely 

if the conditions weather wise start to deteriorate

lets leave the decisions to those experts who are there on site

instead of speculating the outcome

 

https://web.facebook.com/bangkokpost/videos/10156121745062713/

2 minutes ago, jossthaifarang said:

You misunderstand, I'm talking about binding the boys hands so he cant pull it off, not the mask. Since they have to swim on their own in some sections, I guess that wont work. I do wonder how all the equipment they are taking in and out of there swims on its own? Must be pretty high tech equipment..

 

Nobody said It was not risky either.

What a stupid idea. What happens when  in near non visibility water one of the boys mask become dislodged or water egresses into the mask? With their hands 'binded' and they cannot clear the mask themselves? Do they rely on one of SEALS who may or may not see the situation in time? I'm glad you're not in charge.

4 hours ago, balo said:

This is not sounding good , whatever option they choose their lives is in great danger. 

 

not as much danger as before they were found. 

Very sad news about the Thai Navy Seal.

 

This will really make things even more difficult now for everyone.

 

What a terrible situation.

7 minutes ago, jossthaifarang said:

You misunderstand, I'm talking about binding the boys hands so he cant pull it off, not the mask. Since they have to swim on their own in some sections, I guess that wont work. I do wonder how all the equipment they are taking in and out of there swims on its own? Must be pretty high tech equipment..

 

Nobody said It was not risky either.

Binding the boys hands.. did you really think about this one ? They need those hands to know where they are going.. to follow the rope ect. I sounds like the most stupid thing I ever heard. Regulator get removed from the mouth because they hit something.. cant put it back because their hands are tied. 

 

I think you should really get a bit more experience and think things through a bit more before you post.

2 minutes ago, wadsy said:

What a stupid idea. What happens when  in near non visibility water one of the boys mask become dislodged or water egresses into the mask? With their hands 'binded' and they cannot clear the mask themselves? Do they rely on one of SEALS who may or may not see the situation in time? I'm glad you're not in charge.

Lets not start insulting each other.. You honestly think the inexperienced kid who might pull his mask off himself will know how clear the mask under water? "Its water ingress not egress, don't use big words to sound smart" Flooded would have sufficed..

14 minutes ago, webfact said:

Thai authorities say navy SEAL working to rescue boys trapped in cave has died from lack of oxygen. /AP

Real sad and it shows the risks when professionals die, shows the risks to the kids too.

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Binding the boys hands.. did you really think about this one ? They need those hands to know where they are going.. to follow the rope ect. I sounds like the most stupid thing I ever heard. Regulator get removed from the mouth because they hit something.. cant put it back because their hands are tied. 

 

I think you should really get a bit more experience and think things through a bit more before you post.

You should go back and check my previous posts before you say anything.. There is a way to prevent all that from happening.

Put a DESCO or similar over pressure/free flow dive helmet/air hat (water cannot get it and very difficult to pull off) on the boys, sedate them and have Navy Seals and other qualified professional take them out one at a time.

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

Real sad and it shows the risks when professionals die, shows the risks to the kids too.

Right then, that settles it. Leave them in there till the cave floods completely and they all die..

1 minute ago, jossthaifarang said:

You should go back and check my previous posts before you say anything.. There is a way to prevent all that from happening.

No there is not.. you really did not think this through and your trying to safe face like a Thai.

 

You need your hands for the rope, you need your hands to move around in front of you so you don't bump into things.. Its a cave there is no visibility.. you will have to do things with your hands. Its the worst idea I have ever heard. 

1 minute ago, jossthaifarang said:

Right then, that settles it. Leave them in there till the cave floods completely and they all die..

Did i say that, I did not.. I said that this is a dangerous option. I did not say it should not be attempted but IMHO it should not be touted as something easy and safe as it certainly is not. I can't say if the other options are more dangerous or not but some people seem to think its easy and without risk.

Whatever they decide good luck sounds like the conditions are not going to get any better do not tie their hands!!sounds like they have plenty of helpers wet suit for flotation and mobility if the escort diver teathered to the kid has communication that will help with the panic good luck those kids are tough

 

Send a rescue crew of Thai Visa posters they have all the answers.

 I'm sure they could get the kids out safely, after they finish arguing with each other.

2 quotes from the latest Khaosodenglish article about the Thai diver who died in the cave.

　

"Concerns have grown about the oxygen level in the chamber. Last night about midnight workers were preparing to run additional air hose into the cave."

 

...and...

 

"Though the provincial governor repeatedly said it (the water level in the cave) was steadily falling, rescuers inside told a different story."

　

The sooner the kids are brought out, the safer it will be for ALL concerned.

　

RIP to the Thai guy...

Now that one of the real HEROES,  a very skilled, former Seal has died in the dive the boys may need to do, I hope they can find a way to not tell the boys this news. They are going to need to be coached to have a very high level of confidence to give them the best chances. 

3 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

Sounds negative, but the words THAI Navy and Seal I have a continuos hard time biting down on. Just leaves me thinking it is all just a game name making notoriety. Should be using another label, like barracuda or something. I just hope they are 1/2 as good as the moniker suggests and no preventable foul ups getting the kids out. 

They are almost certainly the best that Thailand has. They are certainly doing the very best that they can. One has died in the operation already. Remember that cave diving, and rescue techniques in flooded caves will not be amongst the skills that they train in and practice. I should imagine that they are picking the brains of the few experts there (few because there are precious few on the planet)!

 

I too am cynical about the quality of much of the Thai military. These men however deserve praise and respect. After all, you would have to anaethatise me (and many others here) to get me down there

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Coconut Kidd said:

Put a DESCO or similar over pressure/free flow dive helmet/air hat (water cannot get it and very difficult to pull off) on the boys, sedate them and have Navy Seals and other qualified professional take them out one at a time.

Right, too bad that there is a part where they have to swim alone. Did you read that part was in this topic. So sedating them might not be a good idea. 

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Right, too bad that there is a part where they have to swim alone. Did you read that part was in this topic. So sedating them might not be a good idea. 

Don't take that too literally. Holding on to the fins of the person in front of them and the person behind holding on to them sure is possible.

31 minutes ago, jossthaifarang said:

You misunderstand, I'm talking about binding the boys hands so he cant pull it off, not the mask. Since they have to swim on their own in some sections, I guess that wont work. I do wonder how all the equipment they are taking in and out of there swims on its own? Must be pretty high tech equipment..

 

Nobody said It was not risky either.

The fact that reportedly some of them cannot swim significantly adds to this i expect. The equipment is being taken in and out by groups of Thai Navy Seals and international teams. It was reporting yesterday about a group of Australian diving specialists also being present.

5 minutes ago, JAG said:

They are almost certainly the best that Thailand has. They are certainly doing the very best that they can. One has died in the operation already. Remember that cave diving, and rescue techniques in flooded caves will not be amongst the skills that they train in and practice. I should imagine that they are picking the brains of the few experts there (few because there are precious few on the planet)!

 

I too am cynical about the quality of much of the Thai military. These men however deserve praise and respect. After all, you would have to anaethatise me (and many others here) to get me down there

 

 

 

I know a fair bit about diving, i love diving am a dive master (does not say much) but would not want to make those dives the kids have to do. I have been in caves when younger went through tight passages I have a pretty good idea about it. I did it in semi dry caves (caves are often moist-wet) and I certainly would not want to do it in a flooded cave.

 

I said it before just as you said it.. SEALS are not trained cave divers so I am sure they learn from the experts. These are really brave men taking risks to save the kids they and all others involved are doing a great thing.

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Don't take that too literally. Holding on to the fins of the person in front of them and the person behind holding on to them sure is possible.

You really think this topic is suitable for trolling?

2 hours ago, smutcakes said:

I think you have 0 experience cave diving, not not much.

 

Its like pot holing in murky sometimes blind conditions, with current, with kids with zero experience and some who allegedly cannot swim. It takes Navy Seals 5 hours to dive and trek there and the conditions the world leaders said were 'gnarly' apparently meaning their were complications and difficulties. And you think there are no problems trying to guide these kids through that? If one panicked in a tight area, ripped off their mask, tossed up silt into the passage etc etc they could all be screwed. I have been caving a number of times and even in water less conditions, on known routes it is pretty terrifying and dangerous squeezing through and around these shafts

What's your suggestion then, let them (the football team) wait until december, when the cave would be dry?

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Don't take that too literally. Holding on to the fins of the person in front of them and the person behind holding on to them sure is possible.

I don't know.. I havent been in that cave I have to go with what I have heard. I know your a great diver but I really feel your playing down the risks. A seal died, probably a great diver too, that shows how dangerous it is. To do this with kids certainly has its risks.

 

It still might be the best way, but it is far from easy. I just hope the experts agree on this method they will know better then I do. 

25 minutes ago, robblok said:

No there is not.. you really did not think this through and your trying to safe face like a Thai.

 

You need your hands for the rope, you need your hands to move around in front of you so you don't bump into things.. Its a cave there is no visibility.. you will have to do things with your hands. Its the worst idea I have ever heard. 

Keeping looking mate, I suggested a suit which encapsulates them earlier, something you would never have thought of.

 

Anyway, I'm not on here to argue with you..

4 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

What's your suggestion then, let them (the football team) wait until december, when the cave would be dry?

No, they need to try to get them out asap, i think they realize they cannot guarantee that the cave they are in will also flood. My post was in response to the one i quoted which said he foresaw no problem diving and trekking them out.

49 minutes ago, wadsy said:

My Thai wife just said that on the Thai media they are just reporting one of the Thai SEAL team has met with tragedy. Anyone know if this is actually the case? Hopefully not.

 

There is a thread on this. You have probably found it by now. Yes, one died.