Don’t Blame Boys’ Coach: Thainet, Families, Officials

[greenchair]

When he was a young boy, a disease went through his village. His father, mother and brother all died. He went to be a monk for 10 years. After that he has dedicated his life to helping the mooba team in memory of his family. He is in deep despair right now and suffering from malnutrition because he gave all his food away. People have no idea what this wonderful young man has been through. 

I hope he lives to brighten the lives of many more young people. 

[lamyai3]

4 minutes ago, greenchair said:

He went to be a monk for 10 years. After that he has dedicated his life to helping the mooba team in memory of his family.

His forgoing of his own food supplies, and teaching the kids meditation to help them deal with their hunger corroborates this entirely.  It's highly likely that the impetus to go on a cave trip came from two or three of the more adventurous kids. 

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, lamyai3 said:

His forgoing of his own food supplies, and teaching the kids meditation to help them deal with their hunger corroborates this entirely.  It's highly likely that the impetus to go on a cave trip came from two or three of the more adventurous kids. 

We all make decisions in the morning when we wake up. Maybe we took a motorcycle instead of a taxi today. 

Maybe we wanted to look at the flowers and walked the long way today. 

Maybe we went left instead of our usual right. 

These are the decisions we make everyday and sometimes a disaster happens because of it. 

These decisions are the essence of a great life. 

Without them life would be meaningless. 

They made a decision on that day. What's done is done. He has maned up too the outcome and shown great strength. 

In my opinion, how they got there is irrelevant at this point in time. 

[jerojero]

Sure! Don't blame the single adult leader of a group of kids. I'm sure the kids decided to go into the unsafe zone in the cave ignoring the warnings and the adult couldn't stop them. The coach is entirely responsible for the mess in which the kids find themselves. Obviously the adult in charge of the group is an irresponsible idiot and should be held fully accountable for this fiasco.

[chainarong]

I for one aren't blaming anyone , but you've got to promise,  how about one or two the players be named in the first Thai team to play off in a World Cup , now that would be something.........................?

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, jerojero said:

Sure! Don't blame the single adult leader of a group of kids. I'm sure the kids decided to go into the unsafe zone in the cave ignoring the warnings and the adult couldn't stop them. The coach is entirely responsible for the mess in which the kids find themselves. Obviously the adult in charge of the group is an irresponsible idiot and should be held fully accountable for this fiasco.

Just as a matter of interest, what were the warnings?

[JAZZDOG]

19 minutes ago, jerojero said:

Sure! Don't blame the single adult leader of a group of kids. I'm sure the kids decided to go into the unsafe zone in the cave ignoring the warnings and the adult couldn't stop them. The coach is entirely responsible for the mess in which the kids find themselves. Obviously the adult in charge of the group is an irresponsible idiot and should be held fully accountable for this fiasco.

Not only wrong, the coach has been damaged. In any developed country in the world the municipality would likely be found liable had they placed that sign allowing access to a cave they knew had a history of flooding. That sign should have declared the cave closed from May 1 - Nov 1 or whenever rain threatened the area. It should have had a secure gate limiting access between those dates. Coach Ek and the boys would likely have grounds for a multi-million law suit against the state and it's officials who are entrusted to provide public safety. Public safety in Thailand has never been a top priority like the lack of enforcement of helmet laws and traffic laws.  Blaming a citizen harmed because the government failed in it's responsibility to protect its citizens from known hazards is truly insane. The parents and coach Ek need to be lawyering up as soon as this is resolved.

[Sheryl]

Just as a matter of interest, what were the warnings?

The warning was that the cave is apt to flood from July to November.

They went in June.

Those who think he lacks a feeling of regret and responsibility must not have read his letters to the parents.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The warning was that the cave is apt to flood from July to November.

They went in June.

Those who think he lacks a feeling of regret and responsibility must not have read his letters to the parents.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I know this, but the poster I asked the question to said "he ignored the warnings". As far as I can see there were no warnings, so I was just interested as to what the poster thought what the warnings were.

[connda]

16 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

"There was a big sign outside the cave but they still went in. They should be scolded,"

The 'big sign' didn't say - "This Cave Is Officially Closed - No Trespassing!"
That 'big sign', according to what I've read states that the cave experiences flooding during the rainy season and specifies "July" as the start of possibly dangerous times.

If some group or individuals need to find a scapegoat to blame, then perhaps start with the park service for not explicitly closing the cave as soon as the dry season ended and the rainy season 'officially' started!
Or
Maybe there is no one to "Blame".  How about this is a 'lessons learned' moment for that particular cave and any other caves in Thailand that can flood on a yearly basis.  Then it's up the the parks in charge of these caves to assured they are closed (as in the accesses are sealed or guarded against entry) at times of the year when dangerous flooding is prevalent. 

Personally I think its callous to start seeking to assign blame from the nice, dry, confines of the homes or offices of the critics.  Something happened that hasn't happened before or at least isn't being reported as happening before.  
This is a moment for learning - not fault finding.  Unfortunately in Thai Culture, fault-finding seems to trump experiential learning, and that is sad.  But perhaps this is the perfect opportunity to change that type of outlook.

[JAZZDOG]

12 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The warning was that the cave is apt to flood from July to November.

They went in June.

Those who think he lacks a feeling of regret and responsibility must not have read his letters to the parents.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

would you be kind enough to put up those letters, thanks

[Eligius]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The warning was that the cave is apt to flood from July to November.

They went in June.

Those who think he lacks a feeling of regret and responsibility must not have read his letters to the parents.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I thought from the time of the first videos from inside the cave shelf that Assistant Coach Ek looked really downcast (as opposed to some of the boys, who were smiling). It's pretty clear that he is beating himself up inwardly over what has happened. He clearly has a strong sense of responsibility and conscience. I hope he does not suffer permanent psychiatric damage over this horrible incident. He does know meditation, however, so that could well help him.

 

By the way, Sheryl: I personally have not seen any letters (written? spoken?) by Khun Ek to the parents. Can you supply a link (to a translation)? It would be most interesting to read what he has written. Thanks!

[irlguy1]

It's interesting how all the parents place no blame on the teacher and just want the kids home.
Yet 75 pages of farangs here with absolutely no involvement in the matter and not affected by it in any way all want the guy strung up...
Bit pathetic really



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[TheFishman1]

At first you want to blame the coach after thinking about it all I wasn’t there so I don’t know TIT

[lannarebirth]

17 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

would you be kind enough to put up those letters, thanks

I confess a certain curiosity as well, but what right do we have to encroach on these people's private correspondences? Doesn't seem right to me.

[Eligius]

12 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

It's interesting how all the parents place no blame on the teacher and just want the kids home.
Yet 75 pages of farangs here with absolutely no involvement in the matter and not affected by it in any way all want the guy strung up...
Bit pathetic really



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think this is one of the most telling things, Irlguy1: the fact that, as you say, the parents of the kids themselves do not seem to be attaching any serious blame to Khun Ek (the Assistant Coach) and are displaying no anger at all towards him speaks volumes.

 

The parents probably know Khun Ek personally and thus - perhaps - know him to be a young man of outstanding character, sincerity and kindness. I feel sure that, if Ek were known as an irresponsible guy, those parents would be up in arms, denouncing him every single day. But they are not. I think this is a most important point that we should all take note of ...

[Sheryl]

26 minutes ago, connda said:

....This is a moment for learning - not fault finding.  Unfortunately in Thai Culture, fault-finding seems to trump experiential learning, and that is sad.  But perhaps this is the perfect opportunity to change that type of outlook.

Actually it is not the Thais who are fault finding so much as it is farangs on TVF.

 

The parents have clearly said they do not blame the coach  and that seems to be the majority opinion on Thai social media too.

[Sheryl]

"

Despite differences of opinion, most people now see the coach as the main reason why the boys survived the ordeal.

It has been revealed that he advised the boys to use flashlights one at a time to make sure they had a light source for as long as possible.

He taught them to drink clean water that seeped through the roof of the cave, not the floodwater, after they had run out of drinking water.

He also told the boys not to move a lot, and asked them to meditate to save as much energy as possible.

 

These were experiences he had reportedly gained during his monkhood when he stayed in caves.

There is concern that Ekkapon may experience severe guilt pangs and will blame himself for the ordeal and see himself as the cause of the multinational rescue operation.

 

During the video clip of the first sighting of the missing boys, Ekkapon apparently hid himself in the back, as he was not seen.

 

The second video clip of the group that shot each member one by one showed him looking considerably weaker when compared with his previous photos.

 

That has raised concerns that the coach might be suffering from feelings of guilt.

 

However, the boys’ parents, who are waiting to see their children come out of the cave, told media that they did not blame the coach for the incident.

 

A mother said, “Coach Ek, you should not blame yourself for what happened.

We all know that you are kind and always have the good heart to help our children.”

 

Another mother said in tears that her boy had survived this ordeal because of the coach.

“I was worried that my boy was missing. What comforted me was that coach Ek is with him.”

 

Thawatchai Thaikhiew, the deputy permanent secretary for Justice, said he was worried that the coach may consider it his fault and may not forgive himself.

 

This could lead to depression. “I ask all Thai people to send him moral support for our hero coach Ek.

If anyone meets him, please tell him that he is the one whom I would love and hug the most,” he said in his Facebook post."

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/regional/2018/07/06/many-worry-that-coach-may-blame-himself-for-ordeal/

 

Most importantly, don't let him read posts on TVF....?

[Sheryl]

Letter from coach to parents, brought out by the divers:

 

“To the parents of all the kids, right now the kids are all fine, the crew are taking good care. I promise I will care for the kids as best as possible. I want to say thanks for all the support and I want to apologize to the parents.”

(sources: twitter and multiple meadia)

 

Does not sound to me like the face-saving, irresposnsibe person some posters have painted him as, in need of having his face rubbed in the fact that  his choice to go in the cave proved disasterous.

 

 

[DrTuner]

29 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

It's interesting how all the parents place no blame on the teacher and just want the kids home.
Yet 75 pages of farangs here with absolutely no involvement in the matter and not affected by it in any way all want the guy strung up...
Bit pathetic really



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That's the difference between Thais and Farangs. One takes responsibilities an repercussions seriously. And that's why there's a 1st world.

[RT555]

The coach is at fault, I would charge him for endangering the youths entering cave when it said closed from flooding. Also I would charge the coach with killing the expert diver. 

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, RT555 said:

The coach is at fault, I would charge him for endangering the youths entering cave when it said closed from flooding. Also I would charge the coach with killing the expert diver. 

See you are living up to your avatar.

Edited July 7, 2018 by vogie

[Kadilo]

9 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

That's the difference between Thais and Farangs. One takes responsibilities an repercussions seriously. And that's why there's a 1st world.

The difference is Farangs always want to blame someone, all part of the “where’s the blame , there’s a claim “ culture. 

One if the reasons many of us farangs want to be here is to get away from the self righteous condescending attitude of many who somehow think because they live in the “1st world” they are somehow superior and can sit on judgement of others. 

Once again the majority of Thai people have shown more humanity than many Westerners.......I for one am not surprised at all. 

[Smee]

I heard (Thai sources, so yes, the provenance may be questionable) that the boys went into the cave on their own after training concluded as they had made a 'secret' plan to spend the night there to celebrate one of their birthdays, and the coach only found out they had gone in when some of the parents called him and asked him where the kids were and he then went back to the cave, saw that the bikes were still there, and went in to find them. If that is the case then this guy truly is a hero and there is no blame to be attached to him. Let's wait until they are out and can tell their stories before rushing to judgement... 

Edited July 7, 2018 by Smee

[RT555]

27 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Actually it is not the Thais who are fault finding so much as it is farangs on TVF.

 

The parents have clearly said they do not blame the coach  and that seems to be the majority opinion on Thai social media too.

Until the youths start dying try to get out of the death trap cave. 

Then see what the parents think, now they are running out of oxygen and won't mentally be rational when asked to dive out. 

As a person and an air tank cannot fit through some obstacles. Kids that cannot swim will be asked to hold their breath while doggy paddling through a cappuccinos. IMO. 

[DM07]

24 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

The difference is Farangs always want to blame someone, all part of the “where’s the blame , there’s a claim “ culture. 

One if the reasons many of us farangs want to be here is to get away from the self righteous condescending attitude of many who somehow think because they live in the “1st world” they are somehow superior and can sit on judgement of others. 

Once again the majority of Thai people have shown more humanity than many Westerners.......I for one am not surprised at all. 

I am really getting tired of posts like this one!

If I say "Thais are generally not the best at planning, forward thinking and taking responsibilty", I get drawn and quartered for doing "Thai Bashing"- yet it is totally okay, to come with "farang this, farang that"!

I really don't give a hoot, what anyone says about the coach!

MY opinion is, that he has been doing an abysmal job, getting the kids into the cave and he (it seems) did a good job, keeping thm alive until rescue arrived. 

Although I hope, everything will be fine, may I also state: they are not out yet!

 

For myself, I can not understand, why anyone would say, the guy is a hero!

That is my personal opinion!

The parents may think about that in another way!

YOU might be thinking about this in another way!

I know Thais (PLURAL!) who think he is no hero, but an idiot and some don't!

It is a matter of perspective and I have claerly a different one, than many other people...and the same as many others!

Since when, have matters of discussion become a question of right or wrong, depending on what the majority thinks?

 

Even on this thread, there are people who I agree with on many subjects- not on this one, though!

Do I think, these guys are morons?

No...we agree to disagree!

It is not a farang vs Thai- thing!

It is not a good vs evil- thing!

It is a matter of looking at a situation and drawing conclusions from it!

Yours are "give the man a medal"- mine is "Yeah...let's not do that"!

End of!

Edited July 7, 2018 by DM07

[Kadilo]

14 minutes ago, DM07 said:

I am really getting tired of posts like this one!

If I say "Thais are generally not the best at planning, forward thinking and taking responsibilty", I get drawn and quartered for doing "Thai Bashing"- yet it is totally okay, to come with "farang this, farang that"!

I really don't give a hoot, what anyone says about the coach!

MY opinion is, that he has been doing an abysmal job, getting the kids into the cave and he (it seems) did a good job, keeping thm alive until rescue arrived. 

Although I hope, everything will be fine, may I also state: they are not out yet!

 

For myself, I can not understand, why anyone would say, the guy is a hero!

That is my personal opinion!

The parents may think about that in another way!

YOU might be thinking about this in another way!

I know Thais (PLURAL!) who think he is no hero, but an idiot and some don't!

It is a matter of perspective and I have claerly a different one, than many other people...and the same as many others!

Since when, have matters of discussion become a question of right or wrong, depending on what the majority thinks?

 

Even on this thread, there are people who I agree with on many subjects- not on this one, though!

Do I think, these guys are morons?

No...we agree to disagree!

It is not a farang vs Thai- thing!

It is not a good vs evil- thing!

It is a matter of looking at a situation and drawing conclusions from it!

Yours are "give the man a medal"- mine is "Yeah...let's not do that"!

End of!

“Give the man a medal” Show me where you are quoting me from. 

 

“Matter of looking at a situation and drawing conclusions from it” 

“doing an abysmal job getting them into the cave “

All your conclusions are based on what? None of the facts have come out as to how or why the boys went in there, but you and others still know best. “

As I said before, typical self righteous attitude thinking you know everything when in fact no one knows the true facts only those involved and maybe the parents who choose to show compassion towards him. 

 

Yeah I’m pretty tired of TVF know all’s who know very little but least it gives them a few minutes of attention they so badly need. 

Edited July 7, 2018 by Kadilo

[DM07]

3 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

“Give the man a medal” Show me where you are quoting me from. 

 

“Matter of looking at a situation and drawing conclusions from it” 

“doing an abysmal job getting them into the cave “

All your conclusions are based on what? None of the facts have come out as to how or why the boys went in there, but you and others still know best. “

As I said before, typical self righteous attitude thinking you know everything when in fact no one knows the true facts only those involved and maybe the parents who choose to show compassion towards him. 

 

Yeah I’m pretty tired of TVF know all’s who know very little but least it gives them a few minutes of attention they so badly need. 

Keep your insults to yourself, because if I am a fame- whore...so are you!

 

All my conclusions are based on what I read and heard and have seen about this case, but mostly: 13 PEOPLE ARE TRAPPED IN A FLOODED CAVE UNDERGROUND!

He was the ONE ADULT in the group and he thought, it was a good idea NOT to keep the group from entering a cave, that regularly floods in rainy season...which is right about NOW!

It's been said, that they have been to caves several times and that they knew the caves- well...obviously not good enough!

And obviously, they never heard of them being flooded, when it is raining...which it did for the last several weeks!

And plaese spare me the "the sign said July"- rhetoric!

Things don't start being dangerous on July 1st and are not dangerous a few days before that!

 

But if you didn't arrive in Thailand yesterday, we all know, how this plays out anyways: no one will be held responsible and nothing will be learned.

So yeah...you are right, of course!

You and the face saving practice in this wonderful country!

Have a nice weekend!

 

[NoshowJones]

We do not know the truth about this yet, the notice, if it was put up after the boys went in or not.

If the boys went in without the coach knowing and he went in to find them.

Whether the coach saw the notice and because the dates on it had a week to go, he decided it would be OK to go in. 

We just do not know, and should wait till this is over before we comment.

[NoshowJones]

14 hours ago, Thian said:

The one who put that sign at the entrance of the cave is responsible for all this imo.

 

The sign should have been "no entrance, life danger" .

 

 

It is alright to be wise after the event.