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Don’t Blame Boys’ Coach: Thainet, Families, Officials

webfact
webfact
in Thailand News - Discussion

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On 7/6/2018 at 5:21 PM, snoop1130 said:

"When we were kids we weren't much better than this ... we probably also did things that disappointed our parents. 

Indeed. But they didn't tend to lead to massive international rescue missions, or deaths (obviously inadvertent) of rescuers.

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    • darksidedog
      darksidedog

      I think any laying of blame is totally inappropriate. This poor guy is going to have nightmares for years over this, but to my mind, he has done NOTHING wrong, quite the opposite.The sign outside gave

    • Sheryl
      Sheryl

      Wrong in hindsight is not necessarily the same as something one should have known not to do at the time. Cave still open for exploring and normally free of flooding at that time of year. Cave dry an

    • Eligius
      Eligius

      Generally I would fully agree with you that very often in Thai culture, acceptance of responsibility is sadly lacking. Evasion of responsibility is frequently the norm here.    In this case,

    Posted Images

    4 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

    "Ass"-With a full stop could also be an assistant coach. Isn't that his title? 

     Weather Forecast for Chiang Rai, Thunderstorms will start tomorrow, aeeh in a few hours. Let's hope that the cave won't be flooded. G'Night. 

    Chiang Rai Forecast screenshot.png

    Edited by jenny2017

    • Thanks 1
    1 hour ago, Jonmarleesco said:

    Indeed. But they didn't tend to lead to massive international rescue missions, or deaths (obviously inadvertent) of rescuers.

    True, but you and your buddies were never in a position to share US$ 25,000,000 in royalties and rights to a book and movie for spending 100 nights in a cave.           cha-ching

    • Popular Post

    The  sign at entrance says July not enter ( Warning ) , they went in June 23rd...why crucify the coach . Maybe coach was a  little  stupid for taking in there in the first place, ..Their were NO intent of harm….But He saved them...( Meditation) was a monk for 10 years..Just think what if he had not been there? ? He is presently the one in  the worse condition, gave all food and water to the boys. He saved those boys lives, , further more officials should have Gated the entrance  knowing the risk long ago…They be the ones should be held accountable...

    .

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1
    On 7/6/2018 at 8:14 PM, yrag said:

    The  sign at entrance says July not enter ( Warning ) , they went in June 23rd...why crucify the coach . Maybe coach was a  little  stupid for taking in there in the first place, ...But He saved them...Just think what if he had not been there? ? He is presently the one in  the worse condition, gave all food and water to the boys.

    I've heard conflicting reports on which month the sign said, do you have a pic of it?

    1 hour ago, junglechef said:

    I've heard conflicting reports on which month the sign said, do you have a pic of it?

     

    LYNXMPEE5R0D2_L.jpg

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    • Like 1
    2 hours ago, junglechef said:

    I've heard conflicting reports on which month the sign said, do you have a pic of it?

    I seen a few pics of the sign in pages on threads ( but hard to find if going looking).

    I can tell tho, they have many Thai words on it and quite obvious.

     

    First 2 on the top of the one i see

     "antarai"  (danger) and "ham chern" (fobidden entry) which is a typical stern warnings all Thai know.

     

    Im no Thai language expert but as i understand id be satisfy that this sign is strong enough to make a person think again and consider all the conditions carefully before enter.

     

    Im dont really have blame on the coach since no matter what a sign says, anywhere, any country, people will still ignore.

     

    Ironically,  (and against what many farang say about the Thai way)

    you can argument that this sign puts the responsibility back on the person to make the judgement.

    ie. because you've been warned, now up to you.

     

    personally id rather it this way than the nanny state

    where the most stupid of very small danger will be roped off for all inconvenience,

    a sign every 30cm just in case you cant see, and threat of huge fine and jail to go further.

     

    treating people like an idiot and they soon will become one and that cant even make their own decision. its like this in some countries i visit.

     

    As for the question if the coach is right to have make that decision for those boys (because he was in charge) is up for debate.

    but the parents have shown great empathy and understandings in their reaction to him which i must admire very much

    so that is good enough for me

     

    • Like 2
    21 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

    I seen a few pics of the sign in pages on threads ( but hard to find if going looking).

    I can tell tho, they have many Thai words on it and quite obvious.

     

    First 2 on the top of the one i see

     "antarai"  (danger) and "ham chern" (fobidden entry) which is a typical stern warnings all Thai know.

     

    Im no Thai language expert but as i understand id be satisfy that this sign is strong enough to make a person think again and consider all the conditions carefully before enter.

     

    Im dont really have blame on the coach since no matter what a sign says, anywhere, any country, people will still ignore.

     

    Ironically,  (and against what many farang say about the Thai way)

    you can argument that this sign puts the responsibility back on the person to make the judgement.

    ie. because you've been warned, now up to you.

     

    personally id rather it this way than the nanny state

    where the most stupid of very small danger will be roped off for all inconvenience,

    a sign every 30cm just in case you cant see, and threat of huge fine and jail to go further.

     

    treating people like an idiot and they soon will become one and that cant even make their own decision. its like this in some countries i visit.

     

    As for the question if the coach is right to have make that decision for those boys (because he was in charge) is up for debate.

    but the parents have shown great empathy and understandings in their reaction to him which i must admire very much

    so that is good enough for me

     

    I have posted a picture of the sign above your post?

    12 hours ago, grollies said:

    You've never run a kids football team have you? Kids can be very pressurizing, try to imagine 12 of them egging you on, to go somewhere they'd been many times before, after footy practice, what's the harm?

     

    Too many judges on here for my liking.

    In fact: I have been!

    No luckily, there are not too many caves in the area of the town I lived in, but here is the deal: as an ADULT, you should make some decissions, that are not liked by the kids!

    That is, why you are the ADULT there!

    But then again: where I come from, people DO forward planning, thinking ahead an take responsibilty for their actions (or are held accountable).

    I know...ridiculous nanny-state, right!?

    11 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

    The guy took some kids back into a cool ass cave in a country where all any kids do is sit on phones and got to siam paragon. 

     

    I don't care what happened, the country needs more coaches like this. 

    I don't care what happened

    ...and that pretty much sums up, what too many people are thinking!

    • Like 1
    8 minutes ago, vogie said:

    I have posted a picture of the sign above your post?

    thanks, didnt see it before i posted

    • Haha 1
    3 minutes ago, DM07 said:

    But then again: where I come from, people DO forward planning, thinking ahead an take responsibilty for their actions (or are held accountable).

    Are you from the planet 'Pretty Obvious' twinned with 'I Know Better'

    • Haha 1

    Offensive posts, inflammatory posts and profane posts and the replies have been removed. 

    For anyone curious about what's actually happening at the moment, it seems they are about to mount the rescue effort. As of Sunday morning at 1021 local time, all media people have been ejected from the Tham Luam cave site and a press conference by rescue officials at the site is about to start any minute.  Rumors are that the rescue operation is already underway but that has not yet been confirmed.  Lots of rumors, but it sounds like they are going to swim the kids out in stages...nothing actually confirmed as of 10:29am

     

    updated: conference has begun at 1031 am

    Edited by Kohsamida

    Update on Tham Luan cave rescue; Rescue operation has begun as of 10:10 am today.  18 elite divers have entered the cave.  Details on specifics is not clear, but the divers are now on their way.  Officials expect the rescue operation to go on through the day and the first kids will not emerge from the cave before 10am tomorrow, though the first of the kids should be in the "safe zone" by 9pm tonight

     

    Our prayers should be with them.  This is considered one of the most dangerous cave rescue dives in history, but apparently there are now no other viable options except to swim them out even though most of the kids cannot even swim.  Thunderstorms expected to start in earnest by late afternoon to day so this is now a race against time. 

    Edited by Kohsamida

    • Like 1

    As sad as this situation is, it's truly is an amazing rescue effort from people worldwide coming together for a common cause!  It definitely says something about the innate "goodness" of people everywhere when you strip away geo-political/religious ideologies.

    • Like 2
    *I Blame the Government *
    Every cave in the World cannot be closed off during rainy season


    If they knew that one floods, then it should have been closed.


    Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
    • Like 1
    On 7/6/2018 at 4:50 PM, Sheryl said:

    Wrong in hindsight is not necessarily the same as something one should have known not to do at the time.

    Cave still open for exploring and normally free of flooding at that time of year.

    Cave dry and skies clear.

    Easy to cast blame now but can any of us be sure we couldn't have made the same mistake?

    It definitely sounds like he did all the right things once they got trapped, even to the detriment of his own health.

    If these boys do not all make it out alive the weight on him will be enormous. Even if they do, there is the loss if a rescuer (let us hope it stays at just one rescuer).

    A very heavy mental burden indeed.

    No call to add to it with recriminations.

    Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
     

     

    How does that clear warning sign in both Thai and English fit into the mix?       

     

    Should the young man simple walk away without any responsibility?

     

     

     

    • Popular Post
    8 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

     

    How does that clear warning sign in both Thai and English fit into the mix?       

     

    Should the young man simple walk away without any responsibility?

     

     

     

    There is no warning on the sign (I cannot read Thai) but in english it clearly states it is open, how can you possibly construe that to be a warning.

     

    And no the coach should not walk away without any responsibility, he should walk away with a medal!

    • Like 4
    12 hours ago, vogie said:

    There is no warning on the sign (I cannot read Thai) but in english it clearly states it is open, how can you possibly construe that to be a warning.

     

    And no the coach should not walk away without any responsibility, he should walk away with a medal!

     

    I didn't bother to take a screen shot of it but an article run by USAToday showed a warning sign posted at the entrance of the cave.  The sign was indeed in both Thai and English and specifically warned against entering the cave between July and November due to  flood dangers caused by rains

     

    Fake News you think?

     

    Anyway that's the reason for my post and if such a sign existed does that change things in any way?

     

    I haven't followed this event as closely as some but I thought in all likelihood the same sign would have appeared on one  of the articles posted by THV.

     

    I hope that brings some clarity as to why I made the post I made.

     

     

    Edited by watcharacters

    He was better off taking the boys to McDonalds' instead.
    Parents and family aren't upset with him, simply because all were rescued.
    If this wasn't the case he would go behind bars.
     

    • Like 1
    3 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

     

    I didn't bother to take a screen shot of it but an article run by USAToday showed a warning sign posted at the entrance of the cave.  The sign was indeed in both Thai and English and specifically warned against entering the cave between July and November due to  flood dangers caused by rains

     

    Fake News you think?

     

    Anyway that's the reason for my post and if such a sign existed does that change things in any way?

     

    Againgst entering in Jul - Nov, they entered in June. Therefore it was a sign telling them the cave was open. If they had entered the cave the following month that would have been construed as a warning. But entering the cave when it clearly says it is open is not a warning. I will post the picture of the sign for you, maybe you can show me the "warning". All it says is danger from Jul - Nov the cave is in flooding season, if I can just reiterate, they entered in June.

    LYNXMPEE5R0D2_L.jpg

    •
    • Like 1
    1 hour ago, vogie said:

    maybe you can show me the "warning".

     

    Sir,  I'm, not going to argue with you about this but  a few publications seem to also favor the word warning in regards to the sign.  What you and I   have here is likely  a failure to communicate.   I'll post the "warnings" for you from a few publications

     

    Thai cave rescue: How a 25-year-old former monk kept the teenage ...

    5 days ago - Thai cave rescue: How a 25-year-old former monk kept the teenage football ... A large warning sign at the cave's entrance raises the risk of ...
    4 days ago - Twelve boys and their coach go into the Tham Luang Nang Non cave network in the Doi Nang Non mountain range in northern Thailand after football practice. ... A sign outside warns against entering the cave during the rainy season.
     

    Thai cave rescue: How the schoolboys got there in the first place

    3 days ago - The large warning sign at the start should have been an indicator — it ... between the boys leaving their bicycles at the entrance to the cave, the ...

     

     

    www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-11/thai-rescue...danger-of-thailand-caves/9979052
     

    2 days ago - Thai cave rescue: Inside the sacred danger of Tham Luang ... Only my companion, having heeded better the sign at the entrance forbidding ...

     

    3 days ago - Three more people were rescued from a flooded Thai cave on Tuesday, ...... A large warning sign at the cave's entrance raises the risk of ...

     

     

    ***

     

    I'm happy the boys were safely rescued.   Please be clear about that.

     

    I guess what nags at me in the back of my mind is how this seems to be a result of the general lack of  personal responsibility I see continually in Thailand.    Those of us who drive see it clearly demonstrated in the driving habits in the Kingdom.     And those of us who have had some exposure to the Thai education system know full well how children are taught in this country.   The education system is absolutely awful and  the  results of the system are abundantly clear.

     

    I still ponder the thought  as to whether anyone should have some responsibility  in this matter or not.

     

    I'm certainly not pointing any fingers so please  don't start there.    

     

    Lastly, they entered the cave on June 23rd.    As far as I know,  rainy season does not start at the stroke of midnight on any particular month.    

     

    If ever there was an event where it would be nice to be able to turn back the clock...

     

    25 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

     

    Sir,  I'm, not going to argue with you about this but  a few publications seem to also favor the word warning in regards to the sign.  What you and I   have here is likely  a failure to communicate.   I'll post the "warnings" for you from a few publications

     

    Thai cave rescue: How a 25-year-old former monk kept the teenage ...

     
    5 days ago - Thai cave rescue: How a 25-year-old former monk kept the teenage football ... A large warning sign at the cave's entrance raises the risk of ...
     
    4 days ago - Twelve boys and their coach go into the Tham Luang Nang Non cave network in the Doi Nang Non mountain range in northern Thailand after football practice. ... A sign outside warns against entering the cave during the rainy season.
     

    Thai cave rescue: How the schoolboys got there in the first place

    3 days ago - The large warning sign at the start should have been an indicator — it ... between the boys leaving their bicycles at the entrance to the cave, the ...

     

     

    www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-11/thai-rescue...danger-of-thailand-caves/9979052
     
     

    2 days ago - Thai cave rescue: Inside the sacred danger of Tham Luang ... Only my companion, having heeded better the sign at the entrance forbidding ...

     

     

    3 days ago - Three more people were rescued from a flooded Thai cave on Tuesday, ...... A large warning sign at the cave's entrance raises the risk of ...

     

     

    ***

     

    I'm happy the boys were safely rescued.   Please be clear about that.

     

    I guess what nags at me in the back of my mind is how this seems to be a result of the general lack of  personal responsibility I see continually in Thailand.    Those of us who drive see it clearly demonstrated in the driving habits in the Kingdom.     And those of us who have had some exposure to the Thai education system know full well how children are taught in this country.   The education system is absolutely awful and  the  results of the system are abundantly clear.

     

    I still ponder the thought  as to whether anyone should have some responsibility  in this matter or not.

     

    I'm certainly not pointing any fingers so please  don't start there.    

     

    Lastly, they entered the cave on June 23rd.    As far as I know,  rainy season does not start at the stroke of midnight on any particular month.    

     

    If ever there was an event where it would be nice to be able to turn back the clock...

     

    I have showed you the sign, I was interested in your opinion of where you thought the warning was, not a load of links.

    You are also stated that they entered on the 23rd of June and that the rainy season doesn't start at the stroke of midnight of any month (I also have the ability to be sarcastic), that is what the sign is there for, it is advising them that it is business as usual.

    I cannot make it more clearer than that, so I hope you enjoy the rest of your day and I will call it a day as further debating seems pointless.

    39 minutes ago, vogie said:

    I have showed you the sign, I was interested in your opinion of where you thought the warning was, not a load of links.

    You are also stated that they entered on the 23rd of June and that the rainy season doesn't start at the stroke of midnight of any month (I also have the ability to be sarcastic), that is what the sign is there for, it is advising them that it is business as usual.

    I cannot make it more clearer than that, so I hope you enjoy the rest of your day and I will call it a day as further debating seems pointless.

     

     

    Are you blind to the links that clearly show underscore to the  "warning"?

     

    Please let it go as clearly we are unable to communicate.   No bad feelings but  I believe it's best we just let it go.

     

    Good luck to you..   And for sure there were/are  warnings clearly  posted at the entrance to the cave

     

    The warning sign is posted as sarcasm?    I don't think so as events proved to be the case.

     

    Just be happy the boys are safe.   Isn't that the most important matter with this event?

     

    Edited by watcharacters

    22 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

     

     

    Are you blind to the links that clearly show underscore to the  "warning"?

     

    Please let it go as clearly we are unable to communicate.   No bad feelings but  I believe it's best we just let it go.

     

    Good luck to you..   And for sure there were/are  warnings clearly  posted at the entrance to the cave

     

    The warning sign is posted as sarcasm?    I don't think so as events proved to be the case.

     

    Just be happy the boys are safe.   Isn't that the most important matter with this event?

     

    I was asking you what your opinion was on the sign, you do have opinions don't you?

     

    I am very happy the boys and coach are safe, the only negativity came from you.

    Edited by vogie

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