Usage of alphabet ห

[Happypcc]

For example หนู(nuu) is mouse, but ห is pronounce "h"

 

how to differentiate the usage of this alphabet?

im confused .

 

[HampiK]

The "ห" (Ho Hip) is in this case only used to change the tone.

If you would write it without it would be pronounced in a middle tone. As in real it is pronounced as raising tone, there is no other way as to use an "ห" in front. "น" (no nuu) is a low tone character and there is no change to change the low tone with any tone marks to a raising tone. Therefore the usage of the "ห" (Ho Hip).

 

Yes it's not that easy as there are some special rules. Similar with the "ห" there is something similar with the "อ" (o-ang) for some example "อยาก" (yaak) but there are only 4 words which I am aware of which use them.

 

[Happypcc]

1 hour ago, HampiK said:

The "ห" (Ho Hip) is in this case only used to change the tone.

If you would write it without it would be pronounced in a middle tone. As in real it is pronounced as raising tone, there is no other way as to use an "ห" in front. "น" (no nuu) is a low tone character and there is no change to change the low tone with any tone marks to a raising tone. Therefore the usage of the "ห" (Ho Hip).

 

Yes it's not that easy as there are some special rules. Similar with the "ห" there is something similar with the "อ" (o-ang) for some example "อยาก" (yaak) but there are only 4 words which I am aware of which use them.

 

Thank you for the clarification. It is of great help . Any other words that in similar situation?

 

[HampiK]

2 minutes ago, Happypcc said:

Thank you for the clarification. It is of great help . Any other words that in similar situation?

The basic rule for this is: "ห" (Ho Hip) + a sonorant consonant (ม, น,... ) to change tone rules from a low consonant to high.

 

There are a other words, which use this (Ho Hip), but a very famous one would be "ไหม" (mai) used as question word at the end of a sentence.

 

[digbeth]

Some youths colloquial spelling of หนู is now นู๋ 

other words with silent ห are

หนี

หนีบ

หนาว

เหนียง

 

 

 

[Oxx]

21 hours ago, Happypcc said:

Any other words that in similar situation?

 

There's a lesson this feature of Thai at http://thai-notes.com/reading/lesson24.shtml with a few exceptions and a practice exercise with 34 words (plus 4 words from a related feature also covered in the same lesson).

[Happypcc]

On 7 July 2018 at 7:55 PM, digbeth said:

Some youths colloquial spelling of หนู is now นู๋ 

other words with silent ห are

หนี

หนีบ

หนาว

เหนียง

 

 

 

 

On 8 July 2018 at 8:00 AM, Oxx said:

 

There's a lesson this feature of Thai at http://thai-notes.com/reading/lesson24.shtml with a few exceptions and a practice exercise with 34 words (plus 4 words from a related feature also covered in the same lesson).

Thank you so much for sharing.

[Happypcc]

On 7 July 2018 at 10:48 AM, HampiK said:

The basic rule for this is: "ห" (Ho Hip) + a sonorant consonant (ม, น,... ) to change tone rules from a low consonant to high.

 

There are a other words, which use this (Ho Hip), but a very famous one would be "ไหม" (mai) used as question word at the end of a sentence.

 

 I'm a bit confused of the word 

 

naam - สนาม

isnt it suppose to be mid tone?

because low class น + sonorant final ม regardless of long or short vowel . There's no tone mark. 

 

Please advice 555.

 

 

 

[Oxx]

18 minutes ago, Happypcc said:

 I'm a bit confused of the word 

 

naam - สนาม

isnt it suppose to be mid tone?

because low class น + sonorant final ม regardless of long or short vowel . There's no tone mark. 

 

Please advice 555.

 

That's covered by http://thai-notes.com/reading/lesson27.shtml

However, in short, where a word starts with a consonant cluster which can not be pronounced in Thai a vowel must be inserted between the consonants.  Usually that vowel is an unstressed /a/ (mid tone, no glottal stop).   If the first consonant of the second syllable is one of the sonorants ง, น, ม, ย, ร, ล or ว, the tone of the second syllable is determined by the class of the initial consonant.

 

In your example, สนาม, the initial consonant is high class and the first consonant of the second syllable is a sonorant, so the pronunciation is /saˑnǎam/.

[Happypcc]

35 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

That's covered by http://thai-notes.com/reading/lesson27.shtml

However, in short, where a word starts with a consonant cluster which can not be pronounced in Thai a vowel must be inserted between the consonants.  Usually that vowel is an unstressed /a/ (mid tone, no glottal stop).   If the first consonant of the second syllable is one of the sonorants ง, น, ม, ย, ร, ล or ว, the tone of the second syllable is determined by the class of the initial consonant.

 

In your example, สนาม, the initial consonant is high class and the first consonant of the second syllable is a sonorant, so the pronunciation is /saˑnǎam/.

I'm a little confused here. The first consonant of the second syllable is ส not ล. 

[Oxx]

1 hour ago, Happypcc said:

I'm a little confused here. The first consonant of the second syllable is ส not ล. 

 

Indeed you are.

 

Since we're talking about the word สนาม /saˑnǎam/ the first consonant of the second syllable is น, i.e. a sonorant, so the tone of the second syllable "นาม" is determined by the class of "ส", so "นาม" is treated as starting with a high class consonant.  Hence rising tone.

[Happypcc]

16 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

Indeed you are.

 

Since we're talking about the word สนาม /saˑnǎam/ the first consonant of the second syllable is น, i.e. a sonorant, so the tone of the second syllable "นาม" is determined by the class of "ส", so "นาม" is treated as starting with a high class consonant.  Hence rising tone.

Oh gosh.

i know what you mean right now.

 

ส - is first syllable

นาม - second syllable , the first consonant of this second syllable is a sonorant (น) . So I have to look at the first syllable to determine the tone.

 

correct? 555 

 

thank you so much

[Happypcc]

Off topic a bit

 

กระทรวง - ministry

 

gra suaang 

gra - กะร 

Suaang - ทรวง

 

my question is ท - S , ร - r , ว - ua , ง -ng

how did the ร appear? Is it flexible and no explanation for this?

[Oxx]

16 minutes ago, Happypcc said:

Oh gosh.

i know what you mean right now.

 

ส - is first syllable

นาม - second syllable , the first consonant of this second syllable is a sonorant (น) . So I have to look at the first syllable to determine the tone.

 

correct? 555 

 

Yes, correct.

[Oxx]

5 minutes ago, Happypcc said:

กระทรวง - ministry

 

gra suaang 

gra - กะร 

Suaang - ทรวง

 

my question is ท - S , ร - r , ว - ua , ง -ng

how did the ร appear? Is it flexible and no explanation for this?

 

Not quite.  First syllable กระ /krà/

 

The irregularity is with the second syllable.  ทร can sometimes be low class /s/ (rather than /thr/).  Hence /suaŋ/.  Put it together, /kràˑsuaŋ/.

[HampiK]

39 minutes ago, Happypcc said:

• Off topic a bit

 

กระทรวง - ministry

 

gra suaang 

gra - กะร 

Suaang - ทรวง

 

my question is ท - S , ร - r , ว - ua , ง -ng

how did the ร appear? Is it flexible and no explanation for this?

This also called fake cluster. Meaning the following 4 (5) example the ร(r) will not be spoken. 1 exception is the last one with ทร which will be converted to ซร and then the ร will be not spoken.

• จร -> จ
• สร -> ส
• ศร -> ศ  
• ทร -> ซร -> ซ

hope this explanation helps

[Happypcc]

ฉันที่เคยโดนทำร้ายมา

 

This is a phrase I get from lyric .

what does it mean?

 

it says "I've been hurt " but I can't translate as what it is. Anyone can help me?

[Oxx]

ฉัน - I
ที่ - who
เคย - has been accustomed to/once
โดน - [forms passive]
ทำร้าย - to do harm
มา - to come

 

So, "I who am accustomed to receiving harm" or "I who once received harm ".