U.S. accuses Russian spies of 2016 election hacking, summit looms

[riclag]

Just now, Becker said:

Actually the expression is:

"Hit the nail on the head"

 

Just thought you'd like to know.

No worries mate ,I know

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Becker said:

Actually the expression is:

"Hit the nail on the head"

 

Just thought you'd like to know.

That's kind of funny. It reminds me of all the Russians acting like they're Americans online for propaganda purposes but giving away some clues in their language usage. Not saying that guy is, but it's a fun thing to watch. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, chado said:

That's impossible. Even they in USA say that Russia a banana republic and USA is  country #1

Nobody says Russia is a banana republic (too cold) but the USA is becoming more like one with the tragic election of Putin's poodle. 

[tumama]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

So you blame Obama for Bush's war in Iraq and the uprisings of the Libyan and Syrian people against the dictatorships?

 

Oh the irony. You complain about alleged Russian meddling, but don't see when the CIA does the same thing. If NATO and US hadn't interfered in those "uprisings", they would have been violently suppressed. 

 

Don't get me wrong though, I support democracy. But these countries are clearly not ready for it. Which was made painstakingly obvious with the rise of ISIS and other fundamentalist groups. 

 

The real issue here is that US and NATO illegally attacked 3 sovereign nations, and the end result was disastrous. Not only to the people in those countries, but to the EU.

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Liberal Hypocrisy - again.  Hilarious to read ?

 

If the Trump haters and the Democrats really wanted to stop foreigners affecting the POTUS election, then they would support Voter ID Laws that allows only USA Citizens to vote.  If I lived in California for a while and got a driving licence (easy and automatic with an Aust Licence) then I could vote !!  Democrats have always stopped all Republican attempts at introducing Voting Laws so that foreigners could not vote - every time - 100%.  Democrats need illegal and foreign voters - they vote Democrat a lot - 85+% - and in the UK they take to the streets and march when Trump arrives ?  Red wave coming in November - people have had enough of the anti-Trump histeria and hypocrisy.  

 

There is nothing more than infrequent, anecdotal stories of people voting illegally.  It is far more common for people entitled to vote to be denied the right. If you had voted in a Federal election you would have faced prison, fines, and deportation. 

[Jingthing]

Just now, heybruce said:

There is nothing more than infrequent, anecdotal stories of people voting illegally.  It is far more common for people entitled to vote to be denied the right. If you had voted in a Federal election you would have faced prison, fines, and deportation. 

Yep. It's a classic deflection / red herring to promote the big lie that there is any significant illegal voting going on in the USA. A favorite game of the right wing white nationalists. They're doing all they can to retain white majority privilege for as long as they can. 

[heybruce]

15 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

We don't win elections based on the popular vote and for good reason. Get over it.

 

How do I address a boogeyman if it doesn't exist? ?

The historical reason for not electing Presidents by popular vote is that slave states wanted political influence based on population, both slave and fee, withoug letting slaves vote.  Read a little history.

 

There is no good reason for not using the popular vote now.

[heybruce]

17 minutes ago, tumama said:

 

So he should be bombing Kiev then to force them to hand over control to the rebels, like NATO did to Belgrade to force them to give up Kosovo. But is he doing that? Exactly...

Ok, now your just making up weird stuff.  It's not concealing your ignorance, it's emphasizing it.

[Rigby40]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The historical reason for not electing Presidents by popular vote is that slave states wanted political influence based on population, both slave and fee, withoug letting slaves vote.  Read a little history.

 

There is no good reason for not using the popular vote now.

Plenty of good reasons not to use the popular vote

 

[heybruce]

16 minutes ago, tumama said:

 

Remember the "F EU" rant by Nuland? In that conversation they were discussing who would replace the democratically elected president after the coup. Someone is not paying attention. 

No, I don't remember that.  Provide a link.

[tumama]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

Ok, now your just making up weird stuff.  It's not concealing your ignorance, it's emphasizing it.

 

So NATO did not bomb Belgrade? That's what you're saying?

[heybruce]

16 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

The best way to weaken the US is to leave it up to the Democrats. Putin is helping the wrong guys ?

Putin's loathing of the Democrats, and especially HRC, suggests that he prefers to have a useful idiot in the White House.

[Becker]

13 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

The best way to weaken the US is to leave it up to the Democrats. Putin is helping the wrong guys ?

Don't worry, the abomination in the WH is singlehandedly (although with eager participation from the spineless GOP) tearing down what's taken decades to build and making the US weaker as well as turning it into a bad joke.

You must be so proud (I mean since you're a feelings guy)!

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Putin's loathing of the Democrats, and especially HRC, suggests that he prefers to have a useful idiot in the White House.

More than suggests. It's well documented that Russia (same thing as Putin) was aggressively trying to get "trump" elected but like most rational people, he didn't actually think Americans were that stupid to actually make that happen, even with his help. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Jingthing

[Rigby40]

Just now, Becker said:

Don't worry, the abomination in the WH is singlehandedly (although with eager participation from the spineless GOP) tearing down what's taken decades to build and making the US weaker as well as turning it into a bad joke.

You must be so proud (I mean since you're a feelings guy)!

Yes I'm very proud we're Making America Great Again ?? And don't you forget it!

[heybruce]

17 minutes ago, riclag said:

Japan and Guam weren't looking up in the sky saying,look there's Superman. No Worries for them,with missiles being fired over them anymore.They are busy going on living their lives,thanks to PT. Better still,SK is nursing the possibility of reuniting with their kin in the north ,for the first time in decades.

 

Sanctions relaxed, Kim had a public relations coup and international attention, not even a plan for decommissioning weapons and nuclear facilities. 

 

Kim is taking a break from nuclear sabre rattling because it's expensive.  Now that sanctions have been relaxed, without him giving up anything, he can rebuild.

[tumama]

10 minutes ago, heybruce said:

No, I don't remember that.  Provide a link.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

 

Then we have this interesting article from Politico where they state:

 

Quote

"We have invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine."

 

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

 

They came to the conclusion that the money was not used for that purpose. I wonder if they would have come to the same conclusion if Russia had done the same thing in US. 

 

Same method of operandi like in Venezuela. Have snipers kill both sides. Then use that to justify the coup. Classic CIA tactic. 

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by tumama

[heybruce]

18 minutes ago, tumama said:

 

I'm ignorant? It's pretty clear isn't it? NK has nukes that they can unleash on American territories. Giving them an upper hand in negotiations. 

 

If there's so much information, why not post it here? I mean you clearly take the time to write other nonsense. 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/20/17031772/mueller-indictments-grand-jury

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/mueller-indictments-congressional-candidate-guccifer-stolen-emails-2018-7

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/13/politics/russia-investigation-indictments/index.html

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/24/north-koreas-nuclear-weapons-program-has-grown-with-each-kim-regime.html

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/24/north-koreas-nuclear-weapons-program-has-grown-with-each-kim-regime.html

 

https://www.voanews.com/a/nbc-north-korea-ramping-up-nuclear-program-us-says/4461245.html

 

Posted.  Enjoy.

 

 

[tumama]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/20/17031772/mueller-indictments-grand-jury

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/mueller-indictments-congressional-candidate-guccifer-stolen-emails-2018-7

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/13/politics/russia-investigation-indictments/index.html

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/24/north-koreas-nuclear-weapons-program-has-grown-with-each-kim-regime.html

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/24/north-koreas-nuclear-weapons-program-has-grown-with-each-kim-regime.html

 

https://www.voanews.com/a/nbc-north-korea-ramping-up-nuclear-program-us-says/4461245.html

 

Posted.  Enjoy.

 

And this proves what exactly? Still waiting to see that classified "evidence". 

Edited July 15, 2018 by tumama

[riclag]

17 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Sanctions relaxed, Kim had a public relations coup and international attention, not even a plan for decommissioning weapons and nuclear facilities. 

 

Kim is taking a break from nuclear sabre rattling because it's expensive.  Now that sanctions have been relaxed, without him giving up anything, he can rebuild.

Why don't you mention the good it did for the millions of people of Japan,SK and Guam. I tip my hat to PT and his administration, now that is winning for humanity ! Oh! you can have the last word,since we are off topic!

Edited July 15, 2018 by riclag

[heybruce]

20 minutes ago, tumama said:

 

Oh the irony. You complain about alleged Russian meddling, but don't see when the CIA does the same thing. If NATO and US hadn't interfered in those "uprisings", they would have been violently suppressed. 

 

Don't get me wrong though, I support democracy. But these countries are clearly not ready for it. Which was made painstakingly obvious with the rise of ISIS and other fundamentalist groups. 

 

The real issue here is that US and NATO illegally attacked 3 sovereign nations, and the end result was disastrous. Not only to the people in those countries, but to the EU.

So you think the world should stand by while uprisings against dictators are violently suppressed. 

 

The US and NATO did not get militarily involved in Syria until the countries were in chaos and, in the case of Syria, the chaos spread to neighboring countries.  It is a still evolving tragedy, but I've never heard any credible plans for preventing these tragedies.

[tumama]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

So you think the world should stand by while uprisings against dictators are violently suppressed. 

 

The US and NATO did not get militarily involved in Syria until the countries were in chaos and, in the case of Syria, the chaos spread to neighboring countries.  It is a still evolving tragedy, but I've never heard any credible plans for preventing these tragedies.

 

Yeah I do, again the UN charter is there for a reason. And from hindsight it is what would have been best for everyone. Also, I don't see you attacking Saudi Arabia, a dictatorship and a US ally, that just recently allowed women to drive. At least Syria is a secular society where women can dress how they want. The hypocrisy is just mind boggling. 

 

Which the CIA most likely contributed to. That is their job, and they have a record of doing it. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by tumama

[heybruce]

13 minutes ago, tumama said:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

 

Then we have this interesting article from Politico where they state:

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

 

They came to the conclusion that the money was not used for that purpose. I wonder if they would have come to the same conclusion if Russia had done the same thing in US. 

 

Same method of operandi like in Venezuela. Have snipers kill both sides. Then use that to justify the coup. Classic CIA tactic. 

 

From your first link:

 

" The US says that it is working with all sides in the crisis to reach a peaceful solution, noting that "ultimately it is up to the Ukrainian people to decide their future". However this transcript suggests that the US has very clear ideas about what the outcome should be and is striving to achieve these goals. Russian spokesmen have insisted that the US is meddling in Ukraine's affairs - no more than Moscow, the cynic might say - but Washington clearly has its own game-plan. The clear purpose in leaking this conversation is to embarrass Washington and for audiences susceptible to Moscow's message to portray the US as interfering in Ukraine's domestic affairs. "

 

I don't see a smoking gun there. 

 

From your second link:

 

" Since 1992, the government has spent about $5.1 billion to support democracy-building programs in Ukraine, Thompson said, with money flowing mostly from the Department of State via U.S. Agency for International Development, as well as the departments of Defense, Energy, Agriculture and others. The United States does this with hundreds of other countries. "

 

I'm limited in how much I can cut and paste, but your second link discredits your claim that the US covertly spent $5 billion "interfering" in Ukraine elections.

 

[heybruce]

23 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Plenty of good reasons not to use the popular vote

 

That's the best you can do in defending the electoral college?

[heybruce]

10 minutes ago, tumama said:

 

And this proves what exactly? Still waiting to see that classified "evidence". 

I see, unclassified information isn't good enough for you, you want the classified stuff.  Do you understand the meaning of "classified"? 

[tumama]

10 minutes ago, heybruce said:

From your first link:

 

" The US says that it is working with all sides in the crisis to reach a peaceful solution, noting that "ultimately it is up to the Ukrainian people to decide their future". However this transcript suggests that the US has very clear ideas about what the outcome should be and is striving to achieve these goals. Russian spokesmen have insisted that the US is meddling in Ukraine's affairs - no more than Moscow, the cynic might say - but Washington clearly has its own game-plan. The clear purpose in leaking this conversation is to embarrass Washington and for audiences susceptible to Moscow's message to portray the US as interfering in Ukraine's domestic affairs. "

 

I don't see a smoking gun there. 

 

From your second link:

 

" Since 1992, the government has spent about $5.1 billion to support democracy-building programs in Ukraine, Thompson said, with money flowing mostly from the Department of State via U.S. Agency for International Development, as well as the departments of Defense, Energy, Agriculture and others. The United States does this with hundreds of other countries. "

 

I'm limited in how much I can cut and paste, but your second link discredits your claim that the US covertly spent $5 billion "interfering" in Ukraine elections.

 

 

You don't see a see a smoking gun the US state department invests 6 billion dollars, then discusses who should be the next president of Ukraine? Of course the BBC is going to come to that conclusion, they obviously have a pro US bias. I posted that because of the transcript. It proves US meddling.

 

I know they came to that conclusion. I've already stated that above. But imagine if Russia spent that much money to support a "democratic US". You would have used that as an example to say that Russia meddled in your election. The hypocrisy is just insane. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by tumama

[tumama]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

I see, unclassified information isn't good enough for you, you want the classified stuff.  Do you understand the meaning of "classified"? 

 

You seriously want me to go through a bunch of articles when I know no evidence have been presented so far? You took the time to find them so take the time to present your argument. But you don't, because you have none. 

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, riclag said:

Why don't you mention the good it did for the millions of people of Japan,SK and Guam. I tip my hat to PT and his administration, now that is winning for humanity ! Oh! you can have the last word,since we are off topic!

How is their life any different?  The nuclear threat remains, and indications are that it is growing. 

 

Had Trump managed to keep sanctions in place long enough to get meaningful assurances from Kim and inspectors on the ground in North Korea he would have accomplished something.  But he gave away meaningful leverage just for photos ops and publicity, which benefited Kim far more than Trump.

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, tumama said:

 

Yeah I do, again the UN charter is there for a reason. And from hindsight it is what would have been best for everyone. Also, I don't see you attacking Saudi Arabia, a dictatorship and a US ally, that just recently allowed women to drive. At least Syria is a secular society where women can dress how they want. The hypocrisy is just mind boggling. 

 

Which the CIA most likely contributed to. That is their job, and they have a record of doing it. 

The Saudi people aren't rising up against their government, are they?  It is not the job of the CIA to generate global instability, where did you get that idea?

[tumama]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

The Saudi people aren't rising up against their government, are they?  It is not the job of the CIA to generate global instability, where did you get that idea?

 

Actually they are. And US shows no support for them. If you care so much about dictatorships in the middle east, then why be allies with Saudi Arabia? It's blatant hypocrisy and you know it.