Thai cave rescue: Australian divers given diplomatic immunity in case risky mission went wrong

[webfact]

Thai cave rescue: Australian divers given diplomatic immunity in case risky mission went wrong

Four Corners 

Exclusive by Mark Willacy, Lucy Carter and Jeanavive McGregor

 

The two Australians who helped the Thai football team escape safely from a flooded cave were given diplomatic immunity in case anything went wrong during the rescue, Four Corners can reveal.

 

Retired Perth vet Craig Challen worked closely with his friend and fellow expert cave diver, Adelaide anaesthetist Dr Richard "Harry" Harris, to medically assess the boys and their coach and get them ready for the rescue operation.

Into the cave

 

An official source confirmed to Four Corners that Dr Challen and Dr Harris were given diplomatic immunity ahead of the risky mission, after negotiations between Australian and Thai Government officials.

 

Full story: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-16/thai-cave-rescue-australian-divers-had-diplomatic-immunity/9992204

 

-- ABC 2018-2018-07-16

[NCC1701A]

good thinking. a huge responsibly to sedate the kids. 

[KiwiKiwi]

And that, should be more than enough to tell you everything you need to know about Thailand and the people that live here.

[Bob12345]

9 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

And that, should be more than enough to tell you everything you need to know about Thailand and the people that live here.

Can you explain a bit further? I have no clue what you are referring to.

[KiwiKiwi]

2 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

Can you explain a bit further? I have no clue what you are referring to.

Yes, I believe you. Read the article.

[Time Traveller]

14 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

Can you explain a bit further? I have no clue what you are referring to.

guessing that KiwiKiwi is implying that the governments - Australian/Thai (even worldwide) - think the lives of ordinary people (Thais) are expendable and the those who are politically connected insiders are given free passes whenever their negligence harms someone.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Time Traveller

[AlexRich]

12 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

Can you explain a bit further? I have no clue what you are referring to.

 

If anything bad happened to the kids there would need to be someone to blame and take responsibility for it ... and these guys, being foreigners who played a central part, would have been in the firing line. 

 

The more I read about this the more it is clear that many of the professionals expected some fatalities. I suspect that's why the Prime Minister took a less prominent role and the (now former) Chiang Rai Governor stayed in place as the rescue head, despite having been replaced as Governor (a role he allegedly lost for being too keen on cracking down on graft with public money). 

[webfact]

Thailand gave diplomatic immunity to Australian medical team in cave rescue

By Panarat Thepgumpanat

 

A water mark is seen after 12 soccer players and their coach were rescued near Tham Luang cave complex in the northern province of Chiang Rai, Thailand, July 10, 2018. REUTERS/Soe Zeya Tun

 

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Thailand gave diplomatic immunity to three Australians who helped a boys' soccer team escape from a flooded cave, in case "something went wrong", its foreign minister said on Monday.

 

The 12 boys of the "Wild Boars" soccer team and their coach are recovering from their ordeal and are to be discharged on Thursday from a hospital in the northern town of Chiang Rai.

 

Dozens of foreign divers and rescue personnel joined the 17-day rescue that captivated people around the world.

But immunity was granted only to Australian doctor Richard Harris and two medical assistants, said Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai.

 

"Doctor Richard Harris did his utmost on the medical mission he was responsible for, but if something went wrong he needed protection," he told Reuters.

 

"We provided this only to Dr. Richard Harris and two medical assistants. Only to the Australian medical team," he said.

 

"We knew there were risks involved in this mission...so there was an understanding reached between the Thai government and the Australian government," Don added.

 

"The Thai government would like to thank Dr. Harris."

 

A spokeswoman for Australia's Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade declined to comment.

 

The success was tinged with bitterness, however, as Harris learnt his father, Jim, died in Australia shortly after the three-day rescue was completed last week.

 

Harris, an anaesthetist, went into the Tham Luang cave to assess the boys' health and was one of the last rescuers out of the cave after the boys, aged 11 to 16, and their 25-year-old coach were brought to safety.

 

There have been reports the boys were sedated for their trip out through narrow, flooded passageways, though officials said only that some had been given medicine to calm their nerves.

 

The soccer team was exploring the cave on June 23 when monsoon rains trapped them deep inside the 10-km (6-mile mile) cave complex.

 

Thai navy SEALs and an international team of cave-diving experts played a key role in bringing them to safety.

 

Thais have flooded social media with grateful messages for mission participants, including Harris and the only casualty, Samarn Kunan, 38, a former member of Thailand's elite SEALs unit.

 

Samarn, who died after delivering oxygen tanks in the cave, was cremated on Saturday in a ceremony broadcast live on Thai television.

 

The boys wiped away tears as they signed a portrait of Samarn, in photographs released by the hospital on Sunday.

 

(Additional reporting by Amy Sawitta Lefevre in BANGKOK and Colin Packham in SYDNEY; Writing by Amy Sawitta Lefevre; Editing by Darren Schuettler and Clarence Fernandez)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-07-16

[Peterw42]

I think they are just making a statement about what would be a standard permission/license to practice medicine in thailand. The guy isn't a licensed/insured Thai doctor so a temporary license or indemity would be arranged. The same as a doctor going to any other country to practice medicine. You are not automatically registered/licensed/insured etc. The guy was diagnosing, treatin, prescribing drugs etc, all things you technically need a license for. Part of the litigious world we live in.

I imagine the same thing would happen if a doctor goes to another country, where he isnt licensed as a doctor, at short notice to do emergency surgery etc, a permission/license would be hastily arranged in the background.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Peterw42

[atyclb]

9 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I think they are just making a statement about what would be a standard permission/license to practice medicine in thailand. The guy isn't a licensed/insured Thai doctor so a temporary license or indemity would be arranged. The same as a doctor going to any other country to practice medicine. You are not automatically registered/licensed/insured etc. The guy was diagnosing, treatin, prescribing drugs etc, all things you technically need a license for. Part of the litigious world we live in.

 imo your assessment is on the light side.  more like if a boy(s) became sick, disabled or died something that would protect the divers from any one of a multitude of police from arresting them and jailing them and squeezing them for money.

 

im not sure any good samaritan laws exist or apply 

Edited July 16, 2018 by atyclb

[Thailand]

Both governments can rest easy then, no need for blame only accolades.

[atyclb]

50 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

1 hour ago, KiwiKiwi said:

And that, should be more than enough to tell you everything you need to know about Thailand and the people that live here.

Can you explain a bit further? I have no clue what you are referring to.

 

 

foreign volunteers are easy and soft targets for jailing, intimidation and extortion. volunteers helping after the tsunami out of goodwill were arrested by thai police as easy targets for extortion.

 

this is the very tragic reality

[connda]

Which is one of the reasons that being a Good Samaritan isn't a good idea unless the country you are in and attempting to save a native's life has  laws protecting you.

[Peterw42]

11 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

 

foreign volunteers are easy and soft targets for jailing, intimidation and extortion. volunteers helping after the tsunami out of goodwill were arrested by thai police as easy targets for extortion.

 

this is the very tragic reality

That is an urban myth that genuine volunteers were being arrested, I think you will find that 3-4 months after the tsunami the system was being abused and people were turning up as volunteers with there golf clubs and opening shops, not volunteering etc and they got arrested and charged.

The same as all the stories you hear about people being arrested for working without a permit, 99% are working without a permit, but the story they tell is one of being the innocent victim of Thai extortion.

[atyclb]

42 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

1 hour ago, atyclb said:

 

 

foreign volunteers are easy and soft targets for jailing, intimidation and extortion. volunteers helping after the tsunami out of goodwill were arrested by thai police as easy targets for extortion.

 

this is the very tragic reality

That is an urban myth that genuine volunteers were being arrested, I think you will find that 3-4 months after the tsunami the system was being abused and people were turning up as volunteers with there golf clubs and opening shops, not volunteering etc and they got arrested and charged.

The same as all the stories you hear about people being arrested for working without a permit, 99% are working without a permit, but the story they tell is one of being the innocent victim of Thai extortion.

 

given the police mentality and infamy this is farrrrrrr . from being an urban myth.

[KiwiKiwi]

45 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

That is an urban myth that genuine volunteers were being arrested, I think you will find that 3-4 months after the tsunami the system was being abused and people were turning up as volunteers with there golf clubs and opening shops, not volunteering etc and they got arrested and charged.

The same as all the stories you hear about people being arrested for working without a permit, 99% are working without a permit, but the story they tell is one of being the innocent victim of Thai extortion.

 

While all of that is possible, experience with Thais kicks in. My advice (for what it's worth) is that if you don't want a reputation for lying cheating and stealing, then don't lie, cheat and steal.

 

But I suspect that'll fall on deaf ears. Thais know best, ask anyone renting out jet-skis in Phuket or Pattaya, they'll tell you.

Edited July 16, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, atyclb said:

foreign volunteers are easy and soft targets for jailing, intimidation and extortion. volunteers helping after the tsunami out of goodwill were arrested by thai police as easy targets for extortion.

this is the very tragic reality

Apart from the fact that no volunteers were arrested after the Tsunami

[atyclb]

27 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Apart from the fact that no volunteers were arrested after the Tsunami

 

 

so it is not true the thai government told phuket police to reverse their policy / actions ??

[happy chappie]

I was trained in emergency medical care but I left that skill in the uk.im afraid to say I won't and can't assist anyone in Thailand due to the laws that would put me in a very dangerous position of legal action and or deportation.

[sanemax]

10 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

so it is not true the thai government told phuket police to reverse their policy / actions ??

I dont know who told whop what , but I do know that no volunteers got arrested for working after the Tsunami

[KiwiKiwi]

1 hour ago, happy chappie said:

I was trained in emergency medical care but I left that skill in the uk.im afraid to say I won't and can't assist anyone in Thailand due to the laws that would put me in a very dangerous position of legal action and or deportation.

 

I agree, and my own experience is similar but perhaps less marked. After setting up an expensive practice in BKK, I was suddenly informed that a work permit would no longer be issued on a retirement visa. No notice, just no more, after about 2 years of there being no problem. I dismantled the practice and said basically no more. I do not treat Thais to this day, though it grieves me because what I was doing was useful and helpful to a number of non-English-speaking Thais as well as English-speaking foreigners. But hey, they don't care so I don't care, sod 'em.

 

Lately though, after living in rural Thailand for some years, I'm considering trying to get around the work permit thing (yes, I know, risky). I guess we'll see what happens but I will be taking great care and that's a shame because it's mainly Thais who will miss out.

 

But hey, thay wanted to play - we played, makes no difference to me, I don't need or use my services.

Edited July 16, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[happy chappie]

14 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

I agree, and my own experience is similar but perhaps less marked. After setting up an expensive practice in BKK, I was suddenly informed that a work permit would no longer be issued on a retirement visa. No notice, just no more, after about 2 years of there being no problem. I dismantled the practice and said basically no more. I do not treat Thais to this day, though it grieves me because what I was doing was useful and helpful to a number of non-English-speaking Thais as well as English-speaking foreigners. But hey, they don't care so I don't care, sod 'em.

 

Lately though, after living in rural Thailand for some years, I'm considering trying to get around the work permit thing (yes, I know, risky). I guess we'll see what happens but I will be taking great care and that's a shame because it's mainly Thais who will miss out.

 

But hey, thay wanted to play - we played, makes no difference to me, I don't need or use my services.

Two weeks ago on flight from bkk to udon.captain asked if anyone on board have medical knowledge as there was some sort of problem at the back.i didn't even look around as instinct would take over and I would of got involved.didnt find out what was wrong but they carted a young girl off the plane as soon as we landed.im retired and that includes any first aid.

[Peterw42]

34 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

I agree, and my own experience is similar but perhaps less marked. After setting up an expensive practice in BKK, I was suddenly informed that a work permit would no longer be issued on a retirement visa. No notice, just no more, after about 2 years of there being no problem. I dismantled the practice and said basically no more. I do not treat Thais to this day, though it grieves me because what I was doing was useful and helpful to a number of non-English-speaking Thais as well as English-speaking foreigners. But hey, they don't care so I don't care, sod 'em.

 

Lately though, after living in rural Thailand for some years, I'm considering trying to get around the work permit thing (yes, I know, risky). I guess we'll see what happens but I will be taking great care and that's a shame because it's mainly Thais who will miss out.

 

But hey, thay wanted to play - we played, makes no difference to me, I don't need or use my services.

Why not take the legal and recognized path and offer your services through an NGO like Médecins Sans Frontières (doctors without borders), if there is a need the NGO would get you the appropriate Visa and work permit. Rather than be illegal and try to get a work Permit, that has never been issued, on a Retirement Visa.

Anyone can volunteer in Thailand through the appropriate organisation, with the appropriate Visa and with a work permit. Why should you be exempt from the laws ?

Edited July 16, 2018 by Peterw42

[KiwiKiwi]

15 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

Two weeks ago on flight from bkk to udon.captain asked if anyone on board have medical knowledge as there was some sort of problem at the back.i didn't even look around as instinct would take over and I would of got involved.didnt find out what was wrong but they carted a young girl off the plane as soon as we landed.im retired and that includes any first aid.

 

Probably a good decision, I treated a caller at my home a few years ago - the Thai doctors has completely bent it out of shape and the poor old guy was desperate. I told him to get an antibiotic from a tame pharmacy I know, and 2 days later the problem was gone; he and his daughter (he didn't speak any English at all), came back to say thanks - which was a touching moment for me because what I did was the basic of the basic, bugger all really, but it made a difference to him.

 

After they left, my wife strongly suggested I should not do that again, because the RTP might easily have charged me with practicing medicine without a licence (I didn't really but that's how they would have called it - despite her having a rellie in the local constabulary), and I would probably lose or breach my retirement visa. Strange days, but hey, it's their game, so I guess they can make the rules, even though the old boy I helped was desperate, thought he had cancer and it took me all of 3 minutes.

 

In contrast, a couple of years ago, I was walking down the road near my home, and  an old boy with his daughter came the other way. he was in pain, and it turned out he had had an accident - he was hit by a motorcycle who promptly did a Thai and buggered off without offering help; he had broken his collar bone - very painful. I did try and alleviate some of the pain and give him a lift to the local hospital (about 25km away), but he clearly didn't trust a foreigner and refused my offer of help and a lift. Fair enough, pays yer money and takes yer choice.

 

Next time (and there may not be a next time), it'll be 'I can't help', and that really does irk me, rubs me completely the wrong way, but hey, like I said, it's their game and they can be as stupid as they like with it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Fascinating story reported in the OP, with all the details of just how the rescue was prepared for and executed, with Brits and Aussies and Americans and Thais and others all working together.

 

And good on the Thai and Aussie governments in getting together and working out an agreement that allowed the doctor to perform his medical duties to facilitate the rescue. And I'm presuming he was called for that task because there was no Thai doctor with the training/capability for the job.

 

[KiwiKiwi]

25 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Why not take the legal and recognized path and offer your services through an NGO like Médecins Sans Frontières (doctors without borders), if there is a need the NGO would get you the appropriate Visa and work permit. Rather than be illegal and try to get a work Permit, that has never been issued, on a Retirement Visa.

 

Seems like good advice, but I'm not a medical doctor and I doubt MSF would find my skills useful. I have a few skills but mainly not as a medical doctor. Besides, I don't want to do anything to draw myself to the attention of this shower, so as far as they're concerned I'm retired. The trick for me if I want to practice my skills again, is to make it appear that I'm working somewhere else entirely. The only problem I can think of is where I can put the fees - can't open a bank account in UK because I don't live there any more, and anyway, psmall ayments from Thailand to a foreign bank are a real PITA.

 

Thanks for the thought though.

Edited July 16, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[heybuz]

after watching an interview with US,British,Australian divers it became obvious that the boys were in an unconscious state when extracted from the cave.

[Bob12345]

7 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

I think they are just making a statement about what would be a standard permission/license to practice medicine in thailand. The guy isn't a licensed/insured Thai doctor so a temporary license or indemity would be arranged. The same as a doctor going to any other country to practice medicine. You are not automatically registered/licensed/insured etc. The guy was diagnosing, treatin, prescribing drugs etc, all things you technically need a license for. Part of the litigious world we live in.

I imagine the same thing would happen if a doctor goes to another country, where he isnt licensed as a doctor, at short notice to do emergency surgery etc, a permission/license would be hastily arranged in the background.

No, checked with a doctor (my wife) and the guy can practice without a license IF, and only if, a licensed doctor signs off on it.

 

In this case the Thai military doctor was in on the mission and he would have signed off on the procedure.

 

With other words, if things would have gone wrong, the Thai military doctor would have to appear before the Thai medical counsil and might lose his license.

[Chris Renaix]

On 7/16/2018 at 2:40 PM, atyclb said:

 imo your assessment is on the light side.  more like if a boy(s) became sick, disabled or died something that would protect the divers from any one of a multitude of police from arresting them and jailing them and squeezing them for money.

 

im not sure any good samaritan laws exist or apply 

Good Samaritan-law does not exist in Thailand.

Hence I will never intervene in any situation since I am not protected, sadly enough.  You mentioned the reasons why yourself already...

[nkg]

On 7/16/2018 at 9:56 AM, atyclb said:

 

given the police mentality and infamy this is farrrrrrr . from being an urban myth.

 

OK then. Why don't you post some links to the news stories about tsunami volunteers being arrested?

 

Let's see all the news stories.

 

Relax, you don't have to bother. There are no news stories online about tsunami volunteers being arrested. Want to know why? Because it didn't happen.