VIDEO: British cave explorer Vern Unsworth considers legal action against Elon Musk

[AdamBernau]

5 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I guess they should have asked you how to build one. You clearly are superior to Elon's crew. Just a few glances and you seen all the mistakes they made.

I'm sorry for writing a too wordy and technical answer!

 

A big rigid rescue pod is not required and too big anyway. All you need is keep a person's airway dry and supply a suitable breathing gas. My suggestion would have been a commercial diving helmet e.g. Kirby Morgan and then a sort of big dry bag with handles or just neoprene suits, if a bag would make it harder. They opted for positive pressure full face masks, which are a step down from a diving helmet and luckily it worked. 

 

I hope that's easier to understand.

 

Did you see Musk's tweet where he said he only met Thai Navy / Army personal visiting the cave, despite being in touch with Stanton earlier on? I guess the rescuers were too busy preparing for a feasible rescue than trying to tell him how his contraption had no chance of even reaching the boys and what else his guys may need to change. Built and extensively tested for a hairy mission under harshest condition in a matter of two days. That's more like a prototype for the prototype of a prototype...

[Brunolem]

27 minutes ago, AdamBernau said:

Built and extensively tested for a hairy mission under harshest condition in a matter of two days. That's more like a prototype for the prototype of a prototype...

Exactly!!!

Forget the technicalities and everything else...the main issue here is testing!

You don't jump from the drawing board to the prototype to public use with humans on board just like that!

Even with their rudimentary procedure, which didn't involve the use of a mechanical device, the divers made many tests before moving on with the children.

A mini submarine like this would have to be tested by independent entities, then to be certified, before being authorized for public use, a process that would take years!

A rescue mission, involving children on top of that, is not exactly the most appropriate venue to test a new device for the first time!

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Brunolem

[Hank Gunn]

3 hours ago, Bang Bang said:

I am guessing what happened was along these lines:

Unsworth had been the one first to suggest summoning Volanthen and Stanton. Then followed other cave divers. Obviously, Unsworth was protective of them. And the divers did meet with fairly quick success: they found the boys.

 

Then, blows in Musk with, I would say, 100% good intentions who, based on emails exchanged with Stanton, thought the divers could use his kid-sub to get the team out. But by the time he arrived rescuers were coalescing on the point of view that diving the kids out was the least dangerous of a bunch of lousy options.

 

Musk still thought his sub should be given a looksee, which Unsworth thought would disrupt the diving schedule.  The situation was obviously incredibly stressful for all concerned with the clock ticking down rapidly on the rescue window so a few heated words were exchanged.

 

At the end of it Unsworth said Musk could put his sub up where it hurts and Musk called Unsworth a pedo. However, in the meantime the divers got the kids out safe and sound so, personally, I couldn't give a rat's ass anymore to either of those two grown-up children.

 

But being of a kindly nature I have a suggestion for Musk and Unsworth. When you feel the rage boiling up, look inside yourself to quell the negativity. Key is to slip asap into a meditative state. In fact, I know of a chap, a part-time soccer coach, whose help you might ask. He is known the world over for his ability to calm himself as well as others in the most fiercely hostile circumstances. PM me for name/contact details.

Excellent post and pretty much sums up my thoughts regarding the whole situation.

 

For those claiming that Musk should settle out of court, and one person mentioned 10s of millions, that's absolutely laughable. ? So is the idea of hiring an attorney on contingency. As JLCrab mentioned in post 316, working on contingency means attorneys foot the bills for their expenses until a settlement is reached or adjudication is completed. Any decent attorney approached for this would know it would be a long and expensive battle; we're talking years here (Musk losing any kind of case in Thailand doesn't matter to him because him not being able to travel here in the future is not really any kind of burden to him anyway). The case would have to be battled and won in the US and sorry to disappoint some people here, but half (probably more) of Americans don't even know the difference between Taiwan and Thailand and of those that do know of Thailand, probably at least half of those (or more) agree with Musk's stupid stereotype that Western men in Thailand are all pretty much pedophiles. Like it or not, that's the brutal truth and any lawyer certified to practice law in any of the states in the US would know this.

[PepeLePew]

Musk has done this just because he is an expat living in Thailand. In essence he is slandering all men who live in or visit Thailand. I'm not inclined to be forgiving and I hope the guy sues and gets a huge pay off. Just don't accept Tesla shares ?

[Miss Pickle]

Sadly a lot of people that see older Europeans living in Thailand come to that conclusion a lot of times it's not far of the truth But I would not bother getting into a legal battle with him no point. Maybe you should not have been so rude about his submarine he was only trying to help.The boys are well and safe that is the main thing. Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me you are British I am sure you have heard this before.

[AYJAYDEE]

2 minutes ago, Miss Pickle said:

Sadly a lot of people that see older Europeans living in Thailand come to that conclusion a lot of times it's not far of the truth But I would not bother getting into a legal battle with him no point. Maybe you should not have been so rude about his submarine he was only trying to help.The boys are well and safe that is the main thing. Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me you are British I am sure you have heard this before.

names might not but the stigma involved in that charge certainly could

 

[atyclb]

7 hours ago, AdamBernau said:

8 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Rocket scientists work on capsules to support human life in conditions where there is no air to breathe. Rocket scientists are top level engineers. They test their designs underwater all the time.  There's a lot of similarities between a sub and a spaceship.

 

A rocket scientist works on rockets, not life support systems such as space ships. That's actually two very different disciplines.  

 

 

seems the proper term is . "Spacecraft systems engineer" and they certainly can be and are involved with all aspects of development including life support systems. albeit some may limit their work to propulsion systems.

[AloisAmrein]

One more reason for NOT to buy a Tesla.

[Bang Bang]

Unsworth's got all the chance of flatulence in a hurricane suing Musk. "Stick it where it hurts", "pedo" were words used in a heated exchange (which, sadly, Unsworth started).

 

E.g., if in the course of an altercation one party calls another an sob, I would expect a court would dismiss charges brought by say the mother that she had been defamed as an animal, given the context.

 

But, jeez, I wish these two had kept their acts together as they are players, bit players albeit, in the biggest feelgood story of the year.

[lamyai3]

15 hours ago, Essaybloke said:

Oh brother! Looks to me like both could do with a smack on a bum and sent straight to their rooms. And no TV!

No thaivisa? ?

[hottrader77]

On 7/16/2018 at 3:21 PM, Bluespunk said:

Not sure I could just forget what musk called him. 

true you cannot just forget that some peoples lives have been ruined by untruths like that , there is too much of this kind of slur when back in home countries , people read rubbish in papers about sex industry in thailand which is completely not true only 5% of population in thailand is involved in sex industry but try telling that to some brainless person back in your home country , who has never been to thailand , people give slur after slur about thailand  back in home country and they have never been there. good luck i hope he sues him

[JHolmesJr]

I smell out of court settlement shortly.

 

And Vern will donate a part of that to a nice little charity for displaced kids in LOS.

 

Everybody happy except Musky.

[lamyai3]

6 hours ago, AdamBernau said:

Did you see Musk's tweet where he said he only met Thai Navy / Army personal visiting the cave, despite being in touch with Stanton earlier on? I guess the rescuers were too busy preparing for a feasible rescue than trying to tell him how his contraption had no chance of even reaching the boys and what else his guys may need to change.

Musk turned up on day 3, at which time Stanton was completely off radar - deep in the cave with the other members of the rescue team extracting the final 5.

[whiterussian]

Wierd guy, always makes me think of the movie 'The Jerk' and his optigrab.

Should focus on alt energy more and less on batteries. Hho etc

 

https://youtu.be/6eL4u4zvjJo

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by whiterussian

[canuckamuck]

9 hours ago, AdamBernau said:

I'm sorry for writing a too wordy and technical answer!

 

A big rigid rescue pod is not required and too big anyway. All you need is keep a person's airway dry and supply a suitable breathing gas. My suggestion would have been a commercial diving helmet e.g. Kirby Morgan and then a sort of big dry bag with handles or just neoprene suits, if a bag would make it harder. They opted for positive pressure full face masks, which are a step down from a diving helmet and luckily it worked. 

 

I hope that's easier to understand.

 

Did you see Musk's tweet where he said he only met Thai Navy / Army personal visiting the cave, despite being in touch with Stanton earlier on? I guess the rescuers were too busy preparing for a feasible rescue than trying to tell him how his contraption had no chance of even reaching the boys and what else his guys may need to change. Built and extensively tested for a hairy mission under harshest condition in a matter of two days. That's more like a prototype for the prototype of a prototype...

Lots of words again, and you are arguing points I never made. My point was that these guys were qualified engineers. Not as good as you, obviously, but better than average for the situation. 

[AYJAYDEE]

5 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Lots of words again, and you are arguing points I never made. My point was that these guys were qualified engineers. Not as good as you, obviously, but better than average for the situation. 

Just the fact that someone is a qualified engineer doesnt mean they knew more about cave rescue techniques and requirements than the divers involved.

[canopy]

1 minute ago, AYJAYDEE said:

Just the fact that someone is a qualified engineer doesnt mean they knew more about cave rescue techniques and requirements than the divers involved.

And Elon understands this just as you do. From the very beginning Elon consulted the cave experts in Thailand. These communications were crucial in transforming the idea of a bouncy castle to a mini sub. Elon was encouraged to develop the submarine by Richard Stanton, one of two British divers that first discovered the kids. Elon was given precise technical details about the route and incorporated these factors into the design. Elon sent engineers to, as he said, "understand things that could only be learned by being there".  It was a case of very good communication with the experts on the ground to produce a practical design perfectly suited to the mission at hand.

 

[Humpy]

Musk :-  '' a glandular secretion from an animal ''  ...... says it all really  !

[AYJAYDEE]

2 minutes ago, canopy said:

And Elon understands this just as you do. From the very beginning Elon consulted the cave experts in Thailand. These communications were crucial in transforming the idea of a bouncy castle to a mini sub. Elon was encouraged to develop the submarine by Richard Stanton, one of two British divers that first discovered the kids. Elon was given precise technical details about the route and incorporated these factors into the design. Elon sent engineers to, as he said, "understand things that could only be learned by being there".  It was a case of very good communication with the experts on the ground to produce a practical design perfectly suited to the mission at hand.

 

well, folks at the site said it wasnt perfectly suited to the mission at hand

[canuckamuck]

 

1 minute ago, AYJAYDEE said:

well, folks at the site said it wasnt perfectly suited to the mission at hand

Did you ever consider that perhaps the information he received was a bit thin, or inaccurate to a degree?

[AYJAYDEE]

Just now, canuckamuck said:

 

Did you ever consider that perhaps the information he received was a bit thin, or inaccurate to a degree?

of course it was. those guys were busy planning a rescue. they didnt have the luxury of a detailed set of cross sections of the cave to send him. thats why there wasnt time to design, build, test and modify the sub before the O2 ran out and the rain returned

[kannot]

16 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

well, folks at the site said it wasnt perfectly suited to the mission at hand

"some"

[canuckamuck]

3 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

of course it was. those guys were busy planning a rescue. they didnt have the luxury of a detailed set of cross sections of the cave to send him. thats why there wasnt time to design, build, test and modify the sub before the O2 ran out and the rain returned

Then perhaps Elon shouldn't need to place the object in his rectum as Vern suggested, perhaps Vern should have said thanks anyways, for trying to help? Instead of trying to shame him on International media. 

Also Elon should apologize as well. 

Whatever happens, I have little sympathy. You push someone you don't know, they might push back, sometimes way too hard. Your mouth shouldn't write checks your arse can't cash.

[AYJAYDEE]

4 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Then perhaps Elon shouldn't need to place the object in his rectum as Vern suggested, perhaps Vern should have said thanks anyways, for trying to help? Instead of trying to shame him on International media. 

Also Elon should apologize as well. 

Whatever happens, I have little sympathy. You push someone you don't know, they might push back, sometimes way too hard. Your mouth shouldn't write checks your arse can't cash.

Elon trashed the Thai project leader in public! he's a bully. so verne called his bluff.

this is a dog eat dog world. if I can goad you into an illegal or libellous action, tough luck for you 

[AYJAYDEE]

9 minutes ago, kannot said:

"some"

didnt notice anyone knowledgeable overriding those somes

[canopy]

1 hour ago, AYJAYDEE said:

well, folks at the site said it wasnt perfectly suited to the mission at hand

I want to hear you say that Richard Stanton, British rescuer, hero, and one of two who found the kids was wrong for encouraging elon to develop the mini-sub. I place more value on Stanton than another man that decided to step up to a mic on CNN world and rip someone apart with strong words of slander. It was distasteful and the personal nature of the attack questions his credibility. Surely even you can see this.

 

59 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

Elon trashed the Thai project leader in public! he's a bully. so verne called his bluff.

Elon's response after getting belittled by the cave manager was to release emails showing that cave experts in Thailand helped with his approach and encouraged him to develop the sub because it might be used. What Elon did is hardly bullying or trashing as you put it, but rather setting the facts straight. If you accused Vern and the cave manager of bullying I think you would have a case.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Rimmer
personal attack removed

[AdamBernau]

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Lots of words again, and you are arguing points I never made. My point was that these guys were qualified engineers. Not as good as you, obviously, but better than average for the situation. 

Dammit Jim, I'm a diver / life support tech, not a rocket scientist! Gotta admit that I almost admire your continuing clumsy attempts on patronizing humor.

 

How about this for a short answer: Musk said he (his team) could make a pod going all the way to cave 5, meaning he did not trust the one he brought to make it there. Meanwhile the boys where in chamber 9.

Edited July 18, 2018 by AdamBernau

[Brunolem]

2 hours ago, canopy said:

 

Elon's response after getting belittled by the cave manager was to release emails showing that cave experts in Thailand helped with his approach and encouraged him to develop the sub because it might be used. What Elon did is hardly bullying or trashing as you put it, but rather setting the facts straight. If you accused Vern and the cave manager of bullying I think you would have a case.

 

 

It would seem that investors are not as forgiving as you...

 

https://loupventures.com/an-open-letter-to-elon-musk/

 

 

[canopy]

2 hours ago, AdamBernau said:

How about this for a short answer: Musk said he (his team) could make a pod going all the way to cave 5, meaning he did not trust the one he brought to make it there. Meanwhile the boys where in chamber 9.

 

The "cave 5" reference was a response to show vern was telling porkies on CNN that it couldn't make it 50 meters. Elon could probably make it orbit the earth if he wanted to.

 

[canopy]

34 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

It would seem that investors are not as forgiving as you.

The problem with your statement is I am not forgiving Elon and have criticized him here for what he said. Unlike others, I am capable of seeing when someone does something right, and when they do something wrong.