UK watchdog and EU tell banks to prepare for hard Brexit

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, tebee said:

Brexit - the gift that keeps on giving -

 

Heathrow airport has raised nearly £1bn in debt to keep it going through a “worst-case scenario” following a hard Brexit, its chief executive has said.

 

.....Even if we have no income for two months, we would be financially safe.”

 

So Heathrow is having to plan for the possibility of being closed for 2 months  - OK I know you are going to say it's only a possibility, but why should a major British industry  have to even plan for such a contingency ?

 

Our government is totally incompetent and out of touch with British commerce   - it does not inspire me with confidence that these are the people who are trying to  negotiate Brexit .

 

 https://www.ft.com/content/ceb7d6ce-8f55-11e8-bb8f-a6a2f7bca546

 

Just now, stevenl said:

I don't, but I do find it telling that they think they have to make precautions.

So you agree that the ft article is just fear-mongering?

 

As pointed out by the renegade:-

 

2 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Poor wee timorous beastie, ohhhh what a panic is in thy remainer breastie.

 

What version of the same story do you think is nearest to the correct version tebee ?

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/07/24/heathrow-raises-1bn-fund-third-runway-expansion-brexit-looms/

 

Heathrow is a MAJOR INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, what makes you think it might have to close down for 2 months because of Brexit ?

 

 

Which scenario is the most likely?

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Do you honestly believe that Heathrow (one of the largest airports in the world) will close down for two months if the uk leaves the eu without a deal? ?

Sadly, yes he does ??

 

Some people struggle to understand that Heathrow is an INTERNATIONAL airport and deals with far more INTERNATIONAL air travel than is does EU air travel.

 

The alternative answer is that he believes any old shoite he reads about Brexit as long as it is negative.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

 

 

You are correct about the WTO, have you never heard of The International Civil Aviation Organisation ( ICAO ) and what the do ?

 

You should look into them, it might help you get over your fears.

1

 

I didn't know ICAO dealing with commercial flying rights. Or commercial deals at all.

Are you sure?

 

Or maybe you refer to the international organization based in Geneva Switzerland,

that addresses commercial aspects of air traf.

(not a treaty org like ICAO)

 

 

[tebee]

 There are two problems about UK flights post hard no deal brexit.

 

The safety issues I mentioned 

 

The lact of rights to operate flights  @stevenl talked about.

 

The EU paper about brexit preparations talks about the latter 

 

EU rules in the field of air transport will no longer apply to the UK after Brexit, which would have "consequences in the different areas of air transport". Not least, of course, EU Member State carriers "will no longer enjoy traffic rights to or from the territory of the United Kingdom" and of course visa versa,

 

 All EU airlines would not be permitted to land in the UK, saying: "in effect, as in the absence of no new agreement being reached between the EU and the UK that provides for air access, then there would be an interregnum in the period post March 29th, 2019".

 

In order to enjoy the freedoms covered by the regulation, airlines must hold EU operating licences. The European Commission says that in order to keep these, certain conditions must be met. "The conditions include, among others, the need to have one’s principal place of business within an EU member state", 

 

The airline must also be "majority owned and effectively controlled" by EU member states. "If the conditions are no longer fulfilled as a consequence of the United Kingdom becoming a third country, the operating licence at issue will no longer be valid".

 

Thus, "air carriers of the United Kingdom will no longer enjoy traffic rights under any air transport agreement to which the union is a party, be it to or from the territory of the United Kingdom, be it to or from the territory of any of the EU member states".

 

But that also means that UK airlines will not be enjoy the rights afforded by the EU-US "Open Skies" agreement, one of the horizontal agreements covering 41 countries and one regional organisation with eight member states.

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, The Renegade said:

Sadly, yes he does ??

 

Some people struggle to understand that Heathrow is an INTERNATIONAL airport and deals with far more INTERNATIONAL air travel than is does EU air travel.

 

The alternative answer is that he believes any old shoite he reads about Brexit as long as it is negative.

It's this type of ridiculous fear-mongering that I suspect has turned some 'middle of the road/believed the pre-referendum propaganda about Armageddon in the event of a leave vote' - to realise that the propaganda and lies surrounding the remain campaign, was/is far worse than that in the leave campaign!

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, tebee said:

Brexit - the gift that keeps on giving -

 

Heathrow airport has raised nearly £1bn in debt to keep it going through a “worst-case scenario” following a hard Brexit, its chief executive has said.

 

.....Even if we have no income for two months, we would be financially safe.”

 

So Heathrow is having to plan for the possibility of being closed for 2 months  - OK I know you are going to say it's only a possibility, but why should a major British industry  have to even plan for such a contingency ?

 

Our government is totally incompetent and out of touch with British commerce   - it does not inspire me with confidence that these are the people who are trying to  negotiate Brexit .

 

 https://www.ft.com/content/ceb7d6ce-8f55-11e8-bb8f-a6a2f7bca546

 

And let's not forget that it was the FT that came up with this nonsense....

 

A respected source to many remainers....

[tebee]

9 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Sadly, yes he does ??

 

Some people struggle to understand that Heathrow is an INTERNATIONAL airport and deals with far more INTERNATIONAL air travel than is does EU air travel.

 

The alternative answer is that he believes any old shoite he reads about Brexit as long as it is negative.

 

That would be because of the safety issues - first there is the question of the lapse of airport certification and the wide range of licenses which the EU will no longer recognise. 

 

Without these being settled, aircraft operating out of EU Member States could regain overflight rights but would not be able to land at any UK airports. Nor, until the safety issues have been sorted out, will UK airlines be able to land at the airports of EU Member States, or at the airports of any country were recognition of safety certification relies on bilateral agreements with the EU. 

 

For aircraft to continue to fly, the UK must negotiate a number of complex deal with the EU. It must also make arrangements with the 49 other countries covered by EU agreements. 

 

 

 

[vogie]

20 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Presumably the same would apply to all uk airports - so there would be no flights in or out of the uk for a couple of months ?!

And we will have to eat worms on a Wednesday.

[The Renegade]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

It's this type of ridiculous fear-mongering that I suspect has turned some 'middle of the road/believed the pre-referendum propaganda about Armageddon in the event of a leave vote' - to realise that the propaganda and lies surrounding the remain campaign, was/is far worse than that in the leave campaign!

Bingo

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

And we will have to eat worms on a Wednesday.

And beetles on a Thursday

 

Ohhh wait a minute, hot off the press

 

Quote

Panic not - we are not going to run out of food if no Brexit deal is reached, says Food and Drink Federation director general Ian Wright.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/business-44923127

 

Who is correct ?? This guy or TV's very own neg-heads ??

[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

That would be because of the safety issues - first there is the question of the lapse of airport certification and the wide range of licenses which the EU will no longer recognise. 

 

Without these being settled, aircraft operating out of EU Member States could regain overflight rights but would not be able to land at any UK airports. Nor, until the safety issues have been sorted out, will UK airlines be able to land at the airports of EU Member States, or at the airports of any country were recognition of safety certification relies on bilateral agreements with the EU. 

 

For aircraft to continue to fly, the UK must negotiate a number of complex deal with the EU. It must also make arrangements with the 49 other countries covered by EU agreements. 

 

 

 

It's not worth arguing about this, as the argument that all uk flights will be grounded is just too ridiculous.

 

Yet again, pure fear-mongering of the type that failed prior to the referendum and, I'm pretty sure, will similarly have the opposite effect to that hoped for by those coming out with this type of obvious propaganda.

 

Osborne's promised punishment budget had a small chance of being believed.  No flights in or out of the uk for a couple of months isn't going to be believed by anybody!

[The Renegade]

17 minutes ago, tebee said:

All EU airlines would not be permitted to land in the UK

Is that correct tebee ?

 

How about just giving up posting garbage.

 

From the FT, the very publication that you love to pull anything negative from.

 

Quote

Wizz Air, the Hungarian low-cost airline, has obtained licences for its UK subsidiary in part to ensure it can keep operating in the UK after Brexit.

https://www.ft.com/content/824728fc-4e9c-11e8-a7a9-37318e776bab

 

You see that key word '' Subsidiary '' That is what banks are currently doing, setting up subsidiaries across the EU.

 

There are people / business's that get on and do what they need to do. Then there are people / business's that love to wallow in a great big swamp of negativity.

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Is that correct tebee ?

 

Quote

 

Wizz Air, the Hungarian low-cost airline, has obtained licences for its UK subsidiary in part to ensure it can keep operating in the UK after Brexit.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, that is exactly  why they have had to form a UK subsidiary - although whether  that will have rights to  to land in the EU post brexit is open to question...

[tebee]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

It's not worth arguing about this, as the argument that all uk flights will be grounded is just too ridiculous.

 

Yet again, pure fear-mongering of the type that failed prior to the referendum and, I'm pretty sure, will similarly have the opposite effect to that hoped for by those coming out with this type of obvious propaganda.

 

Osborne's promised punishment budget had a small chance of being believed.  No flights in or out of the uk for a couple of months isn't going to be believed by anybody!

 

 

No deal brexit is breaking complex and inter-related systems that have evolved over 35 years without sorting out replacements. Why do you find it hard to believe that after doing this things won't work?

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

Yes, that is exactly  why they have had to form a UK subsidiary - although whether  that will have rights to  to land in the EU post brexit is open to question...

They are Hungarian, I know that the EU and Orban do not see eye to eye, but I think it is highly unlikely that a Hungarian airline will have to hover rather than land at EU airports.

[The Renegade]

Just now, tebee said:

No deal brexit is breaking complex and inter-related systems that have evolved over 35 years without sorting out replacements. Why do you find it hard to believe that after doing this things won't work?

Why do you find it hard to believe that aircraft were flying between the UK - EU before the EU was even formed.

 

How did they manage to this ? Were they all stealth planes and sneaked in and out ?

 

Grow up.

[tebee]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

They are Hungarian, I know that the EU and Orban do not see eye to eye, but I think it is highly unlikely that a Hungarian airline will have to hover rather than land at EU airports.

But the British subsidiary isn't !

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

But the British subsidiary isn't !

tebee

 

13 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

There are people / business's that get on and do what they need to do. Then there are people / business's that love to wallow in a great big swamp of negativity.

Enjoy your swim in the swamp.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Why do you find it hard to believe that aircraft were flying between the UK - EU before the EU was even formed.

 

How did they manage to this ? Were they all stealth planes and sneaked in and out ?

 

Grow up.

It's not hard to believe. There were deals between separate countries to allow the international traffic.

 

But you were so keen no to make any deals...

 

I'm sure this was planned to be one of the things which should have been agreed during this 2 years separation period. That's why it was there. To do the largest agreements within first months and then fine tune the smaller ones, like aviation privileges.

 

But no deal is the way to go, right?

 

[tebee]

If Brexiters had been passengers on the Titanic, they'd be like:

 

"We voted for the ship to hit an iceberg. Ignore the so-called experts, who say we're going to sink, that's just Project Fear.

 

So quit moaning, have faith in British engineering, and let the Captain do his job".

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, The Renegade said:

Why do you find it hard to believe that aircraft were flying between the UK - EU before the EU was even formed.

 

How did they manage to this ? Were they all stealth planes and sneaked in and out ?

 

Grow up.

It's not worth arguing with anyone who genuinely believes that there will be no flights in or out of the uk if there is no deal>and teebee believes this to be the case>>>

Sorry< computer playing up again>>>>>

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

If Brexiters had been passengers on the Titanic, they'd be like:

 

"We voted for the ship to hit an iceberg. Ignore the so-called experts, who say we're going to sink, that's just Project Fear.

 

So quit moaning, have faith in British engineering, and let the Captain do his job".

Brilliant tebee, absolutely outstanding.

 

It was the '' Experts '' that said the Titanic was unsinkable.

 

???

 

I think it is time for you to hand the keyboard back to the nurse.

[melvinmelvin]

37 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

 

Titanic was designed and built by experts

Noah had a boat built by amateurs

 

so much for experts

 

[whatsupdoc]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

It's not worth arguing with anyone who genuinely believes that there will be no flights in or out of the uk if there is no deal>and teebee believes this to be the case>>>

Sorry< computer playing up again>>>>>

Tebee is very right about what will happen if nobody makes any deal to prevent that scenario. Flights can not take place if there is no legal agreement for them, no landing rights , no insurance...

 

But from the Brexiteer side; who needs facts or experts, blah blah.... Ignorance is bliss.....

[Guest]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

Titanic was designed and built by experts

Noah had a boat built by amateurs

 

so much for experts

 

Titanic was real. Noah's ark is a story for children.

[melvinmelvin]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

Titanic was designed and built by experts

Noah had a boat built by amateurs

 

so much for experts

 

 

maybe its high time UK industry start to invest in boats and trains,

with flights EU/EEA-UK coming to a halt in 6 months time there may be a biz opportunity and a profit to be made from boats and trains

 

[beautifulthailand99]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Apparently Heathrow itself thinks it needs to take precautions.

small details from remoaners who haven't seen the truth yet - only an idiot can still support a hard Brexit or any of the spatchcokced Brexit's that are on offer. Still plenty of them with. Now how can we short the pound......

[My Thai Life]

24 minutes ago, tebee said:

No deal brexit is breaking complex and inter-related systems that have evolved over 35 years without sorting out replacements

 

This is the key point, regardless of which way people voted.

 

Just tracing, for example, the building of something tangible like a car, from raw materials, to components, to sub-assemblies, to assembly, to sales and marketing, to maintenance, would give a good idea of the amount of cross-border co-operation required.

 

Services are sometimes even more difficult to understand.

 

Slicing the Gordian Knot in two may sound heroic, but it would be disastrous for so many people.

 

 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

So you agree that the ft article is just fear-mongering?

<snip>

Wait, don't jump to conclusions. The FT article states that if no deal is struck there will be no planes from Heathrow. I don't think that is a likely scenario, because if no deal is struck there will be a side deal struck on something like this, to keep people moving.

That doesn't mean the article is fear mongering, it does indicate a possible scenario people should be aware of. Because I don't think many people realise the extend of 'no deal'.