Australian doctor reveals how Wild Boars were sedated

 

 

The Australian doctor involved in the Tham Luang cave rescue has revealed that he taught divers how to administer dangerous anaesthetic drugs so they could sedate the Wild Boar team mid-rescue, according to ABC News Australia.

Dr Richard Harris provided the new details following a ceremony at Government House in Adelaide on Thursday, where he received a standing ovation.

 

He said the anaesthetic used during the dangerous rescue only lasted up to an hour, and it took about three hours to get each of the 12 boys and their soccer coach out.

 

Full Story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/australian-doctor-reveals-how-wild-boars-were-sedated/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2018-7-27

 

Any comment from our PM?
Joking ...!
Is not to expect ...

 

Well done man , great job. 

So all that in the Thai PBS article, and they don't even mention what drug was used.

 

But, for some reason, the article keeps using the word "dangerous" drug over and over again.

 

Could it have been Michael Jackson's Propofol???

 

So all that in the Thai PBS article, and they don't even mention what drug was used.
 
But, for some reason, the article keeps using the word "dangerous" drug over and over again.
 
Could it have been Michael Jackson's Propofol???
 

It was ketamine


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7 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

It was ketamine
 

 

The same stuff Thai cops regularly arrest party goers for here.

 

Interesting, a quick read says it was a common anesthetic used during the Vietnam War by U.S. battlefield military surgeons. And of course, it's also a common veterinary anesthetic.

 

 

Edited July 27, 20187 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

21 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

It was ketamine


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To be quite honest, I dont care what they used. It was a very dangerous situation, the divers thought it highly possible there would be some loss of life in the operation, but went for it anyway as all the other options were worse. The fact they got the whole lot out alive at all is testament to the skill, bravery and exceptional knowledge these guys had. That must have been a really hard thing to do. Drugging kids, knowing that anything could go wrong in the extraction and  that they might never wake up. They all deserve all the commendations they get.

22 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

It was ketamine


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In modern parlance once could say the wild boars were stuck in a K-hole..not a cave

calculated risk calculated well

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

To be quite honest, I dont care what they used. It was a very dangerous situation, the divers thought it highly possible there would be some loss of life in the operation, but went for it anyway as all the other options were worse. The fact they got the whole lot out alive at all is testament to the skill, bravery and exceptional knowledge these guys had. That must have been a really hard thing to do. Drugging kids, knowing that anything could go wrong in the extraction and  that they might never wake up. They all deserve all the commendations they get.

Well being an anaesthetist as a profession you would think he would have a pretty good idea of the amounts needed to correctly sedate children would you not? Children undergo surgery every day and I am pretty sure they don't do it without being anaesthetised. 

So then it was not the drug the pm said the army uses to concentrate in war situations like sharp shooting.

If it is then its a good thing thailand has no enemy.

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So all that in the Thai PBS article, and they don't even mention what drug was used.

 

But, for some reason, the article keeps using the word "dangerous" drug over and over again.

 

Could it have been Michael Jackson's Propofol???

 

Ketamine was earlier mentioned, but probably just a rumour. Surprised the western journalists didn't ask, as well as how it was administered - by mouth... by injection? 

20 minutes ago, starky said:

Well being an anaesthetist as a profession you would think he would have a pretty good idea of the amounts needed to correctly sedate children would you not? Children undergo surgery every day and I am pretty sure they don't do it without being anaesthetised. 

I am a little confused by your post. Obviously as an anaesthetist he would know exactly what he was doing and what it would take to knock a child out for a set period of time. But this was not normal. After all, kids in surgery don't have to wear breathing apparatus and be dragged through flooded tunnels on their way to the operation. And then be knocked out again a couple more times along the way, by people with less training. Your post seems to suggest that this was totally normal and nothing to worry about, which is a very long way from the truth. The divers afterwards freely admitted they did not expect to get them all out alive. My post praised the care they took for such a successful outcome. Yours seems to belittle the bravery and skill it actually took, which I think quite shameful.

Weird goings on....

 

Quote

 

A British driver involved in the rescue initially said the boys were given ketamine but Thai Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-O-Cha clarified that it was an anti-anxiety medication, and that they were still conscious.

“Who would chloroform them? If they’re chloroformed, how could they come out? It’s called anxiolytic, something to make them not excited, not stressed,” he said at a press conference in Bangkok.

But a British diver said: “I was told the boys were given a dose of ketamine”, referring to the horse tranquilliser often used as a recreational drug.

 

https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/aussie-cave-diver-reveals-thai-boys-wouldnt-have-made-it-out-alive-without-drugs/news-story/9b2cbc8ae0b46bb652d9a8eac3c6133a

 

And also...

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30349967

 

If it was ketamine, the PM apparently is absolutely denying it, for whatever reasons.
 

Quote

 

“Some were conscious but some others were asleep. They kept breathing as evacuations went on. They were wrapped with foil blankets to keep them warm,” Apakorn said.
 

UK paper the Daily Mail quoted one of the British divers as saying, “I was told the boys were given a dose of ketamine (a horse tranquilliser often used as a recreational drug) to keep them calm.” An American military diver reportedly added: “Those kids were proper knocked out.”
 

Fernando Raigal, a Spanish diver who took part in the rescue, told the Daily Mail, ‘The boys were sedated – they were unconscious.”

But Prime Prayut Chan-o-cha denied this, saying, “All of the children were conscious during the operation.”

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 20187 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

Ketamine is a particularly useful anaesthetic and is often used with children. Its hallmark is that it does not depress respiratory function and also induces short term amnesia. Quite aside from the recreational use that has given it something of a bad rep, it is frequently used in clinical practise. 

Just now, revelstone said:

Ketamine is a particularly useful anaesthetic and is often used with children. Its hallmark is that it does not depress respiratory function and also induces short term amnesia. Quite aside from the recreational use that has given it something of a bad rep, it is frequently used in clinical practise. 

 

Yep, that's what I saw in reading on the subject as well. K's different than most other anesthetics that DO tend to suppress natural respiration.

I just raised the issue above, because I thought it was odd that the OP western news report kept talking about a "dangerous" anesthetic being used, but then never mentioned the actual drug involved.

 

That would be typical in Thai news reporting, but a bit unusual in Western reporting, where the reporters almost certain would ask what drug, and report whatever the doctor said in response, even if that was to refuse to say.

2 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

calculated risk calculated well

And thirteen times too

Well being an anaesthetist as a profession you would think he would have a pretty good idea of the amounts needed to correctly sedate children would you not? Children undergo surgery every day and I am pretty sure they don't do it without being anaesthetised. 

Exactly, and it explains the media blackout,
They were doing something that could have gone terribly wrong and they didn't want the world to see them <deleted> up.
Yes it all worked out but I guarantee u that if it hadn't, we would never have known the truth


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Not a rumour, I got the info direct from someone on the site the day of the extraction.


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The best article about the whole rescue operation seems to be from BBC.

 

        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44799779

 

   An outstanding job was done by all involved. 

48 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

Exactly, and it explains the media blackout,
They were doing something that could have gone terribly wrong and they didn't want the world to see them <deleted> up.
Yes it all worked out but I guarantee u that if it hadn't, we would never have known the truth


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Even if some of the kids would have died, there's no better solution than taking them out. The heavy rain and floods would have done the damage. Risks seem to be part of our lives. 

All these articles and opinions from non medical personnel involved seemed to range across the board...

 

only the doctor should be the recognized mouthpiece regarding drug and the conditions it produces

 

my guess is probably the doctor did give a summary once and the media did a poor job of communication to the public

 

so what do you end up is exactly what this thread entails - no body really knows the exact condition of the boys in transit including those involved - conscious unconscious sedated knocked out alert calm etc

 

 

Or else there would have been a consensus condition answer and obviously thst is not the case....

 

sounds like the doctor communicated procedure only vs understanding the need to know medical condition...

 

right call - you don't turn non medical people into medical decision makers in such a short and adverse time and circumstance...

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I just raised the issue above, because I thought it was odd that the OP western news report kept talking about a "dangerous" anesthetic being used, but then never mentioned the actual drug involved.

 

That would be typical in Thai news reporting, but a bit unusual in Western reporting, where the reporters almost certain would ask what drug, and report whatever the doctor said in response, even if that was to refuse to say.

In the nanny state like Australia they are well trained. Refuse to release "to much" info because:

a) not wanting to promote drugs not on the A list

b) not wanting to admit that any drug not on the A list can actually be usefull..(other than taxing/fining people for it of course)

c) not step on drug companies feet or the police that make a fortune out of banning eveything.

1 hour ago, irlguy1 said:

Exactly, and it explains the media blackout,
They were doing something that could have gone terribly wrong and they didn't want the world to see them <deleted> up.
Yes it all worked out but I guarantee u that if it hadn't, we would never have known the truth


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Or how about they didn't want a media scrum during an unbelievably stressful, risky, and dangerous four day operation?  If the press saw boys coming out unconscious there would have been so many questions, so much publicity, so much turmoil at a time when every one needed to keep their focus and get the job done - answer questions later.

 

And I guarantee you the truth would have come out anyway, no questions.  

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So all that in the Thai PBS article, and they don't even mention what drug was used.

 

But, for some reason, the article keeps using the word "dangerous" drug over and over again.

 

Could it have been Michael Jackson's Propofol???

 

No. I suspect the whole article is out of context.

2 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I am a little confused by your post. Obviously as an anaesthetist he would know exactly what he was doing and what it would take to knock a child out for a set period of time. But this was not normal. After all, kids in surgery don't have to wear breathing apparatus and be dragged through flooded tunnels on their way to the operation. And then be knocked out again a couple more times along the way, by people with less training. Your post seems to suggest that this was totally normal and nothing to worry about, which is a very long way from the truth. The divers afterwards freely admitted they did not expect to get them all out alive. My post praised the care they took for such a successful outcome. Yours seems to belittle the bravery and skill it actually took, which I think quite shameful.

Kids in surgery most certainly use breathing appratus

3 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

Kids in surgery most certainly use breathing appratus

But not in a wet-suit, underwater in the pitch black, being tossed about by the current and manhandled through crevices in the dark, unless this is some new relaxation therapy on the way to surgery I have not heard of yet. You didn't quote on how many times they were knocked out either. One qualified guy, the others pressed into an emergency. Much could have gone wrong. Knocking the performance of those who got everything right, is somehow wrong, cos it turned out pretty well I thought.

21 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

Kids in surgery most certainly use breathing appratus

Not necessarily true. There are many ways to Rome.................

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18095964

 

  

Edited July 27, 20187 yr by jenny2017