Forest And Field Fires

[bannork]

On Saturday a fire near Bandung was started to clear rice stubble, unfortunately it spread, and fueled by winds it ended up blacking several hundred rai. For most rice field owners it was no problem as it cleared the stubble but for cattle owners, well they lost a lot of grass but the ones who really suffered were the rubber tree and eucalytus owners. I saw several rubber trees on fire and some eucalyptus were totally destroyed.

The same day I read in the paper a man in Sisaket trying to sue his neighbour for the loss of his eucalyptus trees, the neighbour denied responsibility although the fire started in his fields.

Must be difficult to prove culpability in these matters without witnesses but it's something to think about if one is investing in a plantation or orchard. What is the fire risk?

Edited February 5, 2007 by bannork

[phibunmike]

I hate the stubble burning. They look after the fires ok during the day, then go home - later the wind picks up and the fires burst into life again. Several times I have had to go out at night to extinguish fires started in neighbour's fields.

Does anyone know the relative pros and cons of stubble burning ? Does burning get more nitrogen back into the soil, or is it the reverse ? What other factors (apart from the obvious problems of smoke and greenhouse gases) ?

Tim ? Chownah ? Anyone ?

(Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but valid "deviation" ???)

Cheers,

Mike

[chownah]

Rice stubble is difficult to plow in using the typical two wheeled tractor and it is slow to break down when dry. Most places are kind of dry in the winter season so the stubble just sits there and if you want to grow something then the quickest and easiest thing to do is to burn it off. Nutrients are lost in the process but the ones remaining are made immediately available to whatever grows back be it crops or native plants. While burning can destroy some grazing it has the potenatial to increase it later in the season if it rains. I've been told that burning at the right time can burn unwanted weeds and leave the graze intact but I have never burnt a field so I don't know if this is true or not. The best management practice for maintaining soil fertility is to till the stubble in unburnt...but its a hassle and an expense when compared to burning. For growing garlic around here they knock the stubble down and add some more straw and then burn it before planting....this adds immediately available nutrients and it also probably kills above ground insects and and alot of the organisms near the soil surface....perhaps this is an advantage...don't know..

As to who is responsible for wayward burning....well of course whoever starts the fire is responsible but around where I live it is not uncommon for someone taking a shortcut across a bunch of fields to just fire up some of the weeds in the dry season.....they think they are doing you a favor....I'm not kidding!!! so you can't always blame a fire on the landowner at least around here. Another aspect of this is face. Consider that if a poor farmer while trying to make a living accidentally burns some of your property....you being a rich farang...and then you call the police or you go to court or you go to their house and DEMAND payment......you are going to lose all face totally and probably forever.....if you even have any face at all to begin with....you will be seen as a rich foreign devil tormenting a poor local farmer who is just trying to keep rice in his bowl.....at least this is my take on the likely outcome.

Also, don't forget that burning and making smoke is a sort of cleansing ritual in Thai culture so some Thais just have this feeling that burning stuff is good.

Chownah

Edited February 5, 2007 by chownah

[Sakeopete]

I hate the stubble burning. They look after the fires ok during the day, then go home - later the wind picks up and the fires burst into life again. Several times I have had to go out at night to extinguish fires started in neighbour's fields.

Does anyone know the relative pros and cons of stubble burning ? Does burning get more nitrogen back into the soil, or is it the reverse ? What other factors (apart from the obvious problems of smoke and greenhouse gases) ?

Tim ? Chownah ? Anyone ?

(Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but valid "deviation" ???)

Cheers,

Mike

From what I understand the ash does provide nitrates but the burning causes moisture to evaporate from the top soil therefore little natural breakdown of plant matter occurs because of the lack of moisture the bacteria require. We till our rice paddies soon after harvest to prevent burning. The wife says it is also done on purpose to fields to help hunt rats.

[billd766]

I was going to start a thread entitled

The hills are alive, with the smell of burning

A couple of nights ago where I live on the edge of the Mae Wong national park there was a stretch of the hills about 1 km long burning away all on its own and yesterday the fire came down the the edge of our land and started to burn my next door neighbours crop of cassava.

Fortunately the Forest Rangers put that bit out but it is the first time in 3 years the fires have got so close to home.

[phibunmike]

I hate the stubble burning. They look after the fires ok during the day, then go home - later the wind picks up and the fires burst into life again. Several times I have had to go out at night to extinguish fires started in neighbour's fields.

Does anyone know the relative pros and cons of stubble burning ? Does burning get more nitrogen back into the soil, or is it the reverse ? What other factors (apart from the obvious problems of smoke and greenhouse gases) ?

Tim ? Chownah ? Anyone ?

(Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but valid "deviation" ???)

Cheers,

Mike

From what I understand the ash does provide nitrates but the burning causes moisture to evaporate from the top soil therefore little natural breakdown of plant matter occurs because of the lack of moisture the bacteria require. We till our rice paddies soon after harvest to prevent burning. The wife says it is also done on purpose to fields to help hunt rats.

Thanks - so from you and Chownah I understand burning has the combined benefit of releasing nitrogen into the soil as well as being easier....

Burning takes place early in the dry season, so I wonder how much impact the evaporation of moisture has in practical terms.

The reason for my questions is that I want to steer my family away from burning, but I am actually unsure of my scientific basis...

Thanks,

Mike

[Tywais]

The reason for my questions is that I want to steer my family away from burning, but I am actually unsure of my scientific basis...

Thanks,

Mike

This is an article on non-burn techniques but not sure how well they could be applied in Thailand. If one could find profitable use of the rice straw I believe there could be interest. http://www.calrice.org/a_balance_sheet/chap4.htm

[phibunmike]

The reason for my questions is that I want to steer my family away from burning, but I am actually unsure of my scientific basis...

Thanks,

Mike

This is an article on non-burn techniques but not sure how well they could be applied in Thailand. If one could find profitable use of the rice straw I believe there could be interest. http://www.calrice.org/a_balance_sheet/chap4.htm

Thanks, Tywais, that is very informative - I am really surprised that stubble burning is common in California, where I thought one had to have a permit to fart. My simplistic way of thinking was: nutrients form stubble - plough it back in - nutrients go back into the soil. But apparently it doesn't work so well. I suppose I will have to put up with the burning a while longer

[RamdomChances]

This is an article on non-burn techniques but not sure how well they could be applied in Thailand. If one could find profitable use of the rice straw I believe there could be interest.

They actually use the rice straw here for animal feed it's only the stubble we are talking about. They probaly don't use it for feed in California as it's pretty low grade and there are probaly better alternatives.

[chownah]

I hate the stubble burning. They look after the fires ok during the day, then go home - later the wind picks up and the fires burst into life again. Several times I have had to go out at night to extinguish fires started in neighbour's fields.

Does anyone know the relative pros and cons of stubble burning ? Does burning get more nitrogen back into the soil, or is it the reverse ? What other factors (apart from the obvious problems of smoke and greenhouse gases) ?

Tim ? Chownah ? Anyone ?

(Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but valid "deviation" ???)

Cheers,

Mike

From what I understand the ash does provide nitrates but the burning causes moisture to evaporate from the top soil therefore little natural breakdown of plant matter occurs because of the lack of moisture the bacteria require. We till our rice paddies soon after harvest to prevent burning. The wife says it is also done on purpose to fields to help hunt rats.

Thanks - so from you and Chownah I understand burning has the combined benefit of releasing nitrogen into the soil as well as being easier....

Burning takes place early in the dry season, so I wonder how much impact the evaporation of moisture has in practical terms.

The reason for my questions is that I want to steer my family away from burning, but I am actually unsure of my scientific basis...

Thanks,

Mike

Actually burning the straw means a loss of the nitrogen...other nutrients are not lost but nitrogen is lost. Also all the organic matter is destroyed in the process. Organic material improves soil structure giving it better water and gas permeability and also reduces leaching of nutrients by holding them and then slowliy releasing them to growing crops or weeds. The best soil fertility practice is to till the straw into the soil. It would probably be good if you google something like "irri burning rice straw" and you'll find lots of stuff. The IRRI is the International Rice Research Institute and is a good source of all kinds of rice farming and rice research information. The link Tywais posted has some good information too.

Chownah

[Tywais]

//off topic

Just for your interest, we are doing research in genetic modification of rice seeds at our laboratory using ION beam technology. One, is to decrease the stalk height but increasing the yield to reduce damage when cultivating, 2nd is to make it more perennial (off-season) growth possible, and 3rd - to be able to grow in less then ideal soil conditions. Quite a bit of success with this already.

[chownah]

decrease the stalk height but increasing the yield to reduce damage when cultivating,

I don't understand what damage is reduced by decreasing the stalk height.

to make it more perennial (off-season) growth possible

Is this to increase vegetative growth after harvest to increase its forage production?...or is it suppposed to make one planting give two yields of grain?

Also, I'm still wondering what about the geometry of the confinement field on your plasma chamber....if I recall properly it was a nitrogen ion plasma you were generating...maybe it was for treating silk?

Chownah